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Author Topic: What we are up against!!!  (Read 3607 times)

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PonderinHog

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2020, 08:58:22 pm »

No, adding TAMU to the SEC hasn’t hurt us.  Only losing to them every year since then.
We aren't the only team that Manziel gave fits.
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PorkSoda

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2020, 08:59:15 pm »

No, adding TAMU to the SEC hasn’t hurt us.  Only losing to them every year since then.
Point taken, but its the SEC, and it doesn't really get any easier.  Only choice is to up our game to compete on an SEC level.
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Maaldri

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2020, 09:50:04 pm »

No, adding TAMU to the SEC hasn’t hurt us.  Only losing to them every year since then.

Its only a matter of time until they’re consistently finishing 5th in the West (below us), where they belong!
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2020, 09:53:07 pm »

I’m tempted to go back to my posts in 2012, telling everyone that TAMU joining the SEC was terrible for us.  Of course, nearly everyone disagreed.
Not me.

It’s not a death knell, but it does nothing but hurt Arkansas. There is no benefit at all. We recruit against them more often than we do Texas. And now our trump card has been removed from the deck(leave Texas and come play in the SEC)

Huge boost to A&M’s stature as well, as they are no longer Texas’s little brother in the same league.

Big boost to A&M, a blow to Arkansas.

Of course Hogville in its infinite wisdom just knew it was going to be good for Arkansas.

Deep Shoat

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2020, 11:56:34 pm »

Not me.

It’s not a death knell, but it does nothing but hurt Arkansas. There is no benefit at all. We recruit against them more often than we do Texas. And now our trump card has been removed from the deck(leave Texas and come play in the SEC)

Huge boost to A&M’s stature as well, as they are no longer Texas’s little brother in the same league.

Big boost to A&M, a blow to Arkansas.

Of course Hogville in its infinite wisdom just knew it was going to be good for Arkansas.
Well, I wouldn’t say “no benefit”.

We DO get to read these insightful posts telling us how bad it is that TAMU joined the SEC.

Pulled(PP)pork

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2020, 12:01:20 am »

If its just these numbers we match up evenly with 3 opponents. That says 1.5 wins.

But there is more context. We haven't won an SEC game in ages. We have changed coaches 3 times since our last sec win. So, winning 1 is a solid improvement.

It is mind boggling how bad AR has been the past few years. Just stupefyingly bad.
who was the 3rd coach?


PP
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2020, 12:02:07 am »

Well, I wouldn’t say “no benefit”.

We DO get to read these insightful posts telling us how bad it is that TAMU joined the SEC.

I mean, it's definitely hurt us more than it's helped us.

If there's an argument to say otherwise, I'd love to hear it.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2020, 12:03:21 am »

I mean, it's definitely hurt us more than it's helped us.

If there's an argument to say otherwise, I'd love to hear it.
My argument is that it simply coincided with the aftermath of Bobby.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2020, 12:28:37 am »

My argument is that it simply coincided with the aftermath of Bobby.

Well, this board loves to talk about how we have an advantage over recruits in say, Oklahoma, because we can offer them SEC football.

Once A&M entered the conference, and being the only school in Texas to do so, so could they.

A&M's average recruiting class ranking the 9 years prior to joining the SEC was 19, and the 9 years since being in the SEC, it's 11. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

They've also ranked higher than us every year in recruiting since joining the SEC (there were years in those prior 9 seasons to them joining the SEC where we actually ranked higher). Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

And they've beaten us every single year since they joined the SEC. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that, because there's no way to know if he would've continued beating them when, you know, they joined the SEC.

Have we hurt ourselves with our hires? Well, yeah. Absolutely we have. But that doesn't change what's happened since A&M entered the conference.

So again, I ask, how has joining them not hurt us?

Deep Shoat

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2020, 12:42:39 am »

Well, this board loves to talk about how we have an advantage over recruits in say, Oklahoma, because we can offer them SEC football.

Once A&M entered the conference, and being the only school in Texas to do so, so could they.

A&M's average recruiting class ranking the 9 years prior to joining the SEC was 19, and the 9 years since being in the SEC, it's 11. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

They've also ranked higher than us every year in recruiting since joining the SEC (there were years in those prior 9 seasons to them joining the SEC where we actually ranked higher). Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

And they've beaten us every single year since they joined the SEC. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that, because there's no way to know if he would've continued beating them when, you know, they joined the SEC.

Have we hurt ourselves with our hires? Well, yeah. Absolutely we have. But that doesn't change what's happened since A&M entered the conference.

So again, I ask, how has joining them not hurt us?
Games are still played on the field, and Aggies still can’t win when it matters.

Yes, they’ve mad a meal out of us, but they almost choke on it year after year.  Now, imagine what that will look like with a couple of seasons of competent coaching for the good guys.

The Aggies have always had better recruiting classes. 
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jvanhorn

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2020, 01:34:02 am »

We have talent.  It’s going to come together one Saturday this Fall and ruins someone’s weekend.  It sure would be nice if it was this weekend.

The separation between championship teams and not championship teams in the SEC is not talent, it is the DEPTH of talent.  Georgia or Alabama get a player hurt they just plug in a replacement.  We get player hurt and we are in trouble at that position.  My guess is that it will take 3 to 5 years to build that kind of depth where we can afford an injury to a starter with no drop off.
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LZH

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2020, 06:31:43 am »

I don't know if I ever said A&M joining the conference was good for us, but I didn't see it as a huge threat.  I can't claim to be right, it's just how I feel.  From the late 70's til we joined the SEC, I can't remember one single out of conference game that we really showed up, much less smacked them around....just the opposite, actually.  I was sick and tired of beating up on TCU and Rice then getting run out of the stadium against the Alabama's, Miami's, Oklahoma's, and UCLA's of college football.

When we play the best of the best week after week, it can only force you to be better (if your PTB are committed) - even if you lose many of those games.  I know that playing a weak conference schedule does nothing but set you up to be embarrassed when you step outside the conference...or for Arkansas it has, anyway.  Since the late 90's, whenever we have had an outstanding year, you know we've be respected as a team that has earned the recognition - not like in the 80's where we'd end a season with nine or ten wins but ranked in the 10-15 range.

I think the '87 Orange Bowl really started this thought process of mine, and the Miami game in LR later that year just cemented it.  Like I said, I'm not claiming to be right (I'm sure someone can find some stats that back that up), but it's just how I feel.  I'll take 9-3 in the SEC vs. 10-2 in the Big12 any day, all day.

Sweet Feet

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2020, 07:49:38 am »

Texas A&M has two Top 7 Classes under their belt right now with a national title coach. I knew before the 2012 season that TAMU was going to give Arkansas more issues than before because now Texas players can stay home while playing in the SEC. Seeing the major difference in recruiting trends since they been in the SEC is just more proof. This isn't the same TAMU that people are used to seeing in the SWC. Once Mond leaves and TAMU gets a better QB, they are going to be more lethal. They went 8-5 last year, but not too many teams beat Alabama, Auburn,  LSU, Clemson, and Georgia last year either.
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cmrhawg

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2020, 07:54:02 am »

Yeah if they get a top tier quarterback and get a few bounces to go their way, I could see them winning 9 games one year.

PonderinHog

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2020, 07:55:53 am »

The wall, redneck mother...
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rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2020, 07:57:00 am »

Texas A&M has two Top 7 Classes under their belt right now with a national title coach. I knew before the 2012 season that TAMU was going to give Arkansas more issues than before because now Texas players can stay home while playing in the SEC. Seeing the major difference in recruiting trends since they been in the SEC is just more proof. This isn't the same TAMU that people are used to seeing in the SWC. Once Mond leaves and TAMU gets a better QB, they are going to be more lethal. They went 8-5 last year, but not too many teams beat Alabama, Auburn,  LSU, Clemson, and Georgia last year either.


If we had their record last year with the same losses we would have posters printing shirts and mental gymnastics-ing their way to how we could have been national champions.

Meanwhile we haven't beat a fbs team in 3 years but they are the biggest underachiever in the conference.
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prattville pig

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2020, 08:03:51 am »

A&M hasn't hurt us. Hiring crappy coaches that can't recruit and develop Players has killed us. Trying to go cheap on coaches and staff is why we are here . Playing A&M in Texas has helped get us in front of Texas kids . but who wants to play for a Guy like Morris if you can go elsewhere . he did get better recruits than his skill set should have
Morris was fired before any kids at Arkansas played for him.
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nuttless hog

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2020, 08:19:44 am »

Morris was here two years, fourteen of his recruits is on the starting roster, he left us in so much better shape than the drinking clown before him
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prattville pig

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2020, 08:21:17 am »

Morris was here two years, fourteen of his recruits is on the starting roster, he left us in so much better shape than the drinking clown before him
Completeky missed the point
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rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2020, 08:21:36 am »

Morris was here two years, fourteen of his recruits is on the starting roster, he left us in so much better shape than the drinking clown before him

I mean he was here for 2 recruiting cycles. Math says we will have some of his players on the 2 deep.

He definitely left us some good offensive skill.
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RootHawgrDie

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2020, 08:30:06 am »

Give Pittman time and he can fix that.
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rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2020, 08:32:25 am »

Give Pittman time and he can fix that.

Hope so.
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Sweet Feet

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2020, 08:36:05 am »


If we had their record last year with the same losses we would have posters printing shirts and mental gymnastics-ing their way to how we could have been national champions.

Meanwhile we haven't beat a fbs team in 3 years but they are the biggest underachiever in the conference.

Well to underachieve would mean to have potential but not good enough results to show for or equal that potential. Arkansas hasn't had potential since 2011 so the results isn't too disappointing. Texas A&M however has had potential, but under Sumlin looked mediocre in some games and had too much talent to look the way they did. They had their moments last year vs Arkansas and Ole Miss, but that was largely because of Mond's inconsistency.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2020, 08:36:39 am »

Feed the studs.... live and die by it....

Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2020, 08:37:06 am »

A&M added depth to the conference with a program from an elite recruiting area.  Another opponent who recruits on a higher level.  But it didn't directly affect our recruiting.  We weren't going to win many recruiting battles in Texas against the Aggies whether they were in the Big 12 or SEC.  This goes back to the overstating of Texas recruiting discussion we have had many times. 

It also didn't help the SEC has done all it can to make A&M a power program even though they have failed to get there.  Taking away our LSU game which was a major branding opportunity and a matchup which had come to be watched outside of region.  Part of that was because for many seasons, one or both of us and LSU had an SECW and/or BCS game on the line.  Sticking us with Mizzou was a huge letdown.  However, like A&M's recruiting, this isn't what brought down our program.

Our issues are of our own doing.  They have nothing to do with A&M coming to the SEC.  We would be in the same spot if they were in the Big 12. 

rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2020, 08:40:34 am »

Well to underachieve would mean to have potential but not good enough results to show for or equal that potential. Arkansas hasn't had potential since 2011 so the results isn't too disappointing. Texas A&M however has had potential, but under Sumlin looked mediocre in some games and had too much talent to look the way they did. They had their moments last year vs Arkansas and Ole Miss, but that was largely because of Mond's inconsistency.

I would still say arkansas underachieved at a larger rate than A&M since 2012. It's all relative. Arkansas had potential to do more than 4-20 and hit a historical low for the program. Are you suggesting that was foreseen?

2014 and 2015 were also underachieving years for Arkansas.

Nevertheless, the point being Arkansas has no room to ridicule the other school for under achieving.
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Sweet Feet

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:02 am »

A&M hasn't hurt us. Hiring crappy coaches that can't recruit and develop Players has killed us. Trying to go cheap on coaches and staff is why we are here . Playing A&M in Texas has helped get us in front of Texas kids . but who wants to play for a Guy like Morris if you can go elsewhere . he did get better recruits than his skill set should have

Arkansas since 2012 hasn't beaten Texas A&M once in 8 straight tries but has beaten LSU, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Tennessee, and Florida.

TAMU joining has hurt Arkansas.
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liljo

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2020, 08:48:27 am »

I would still say arkansas underachieved at a larger rate than A&M since 2012. It's all relative. Arkansas had potential to do more than 4-20 and hit a historical low for the program. Are you suggesting that was foreseen?

2014 and 2015 were also underachieving years for Arkansas.

Nevertheless, the point being Arkansas has no room to ridicule the any other school for under achieving.

Well yeah i didn't factor in the blowout home losses to UNT and WKU....i forgot about that.
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rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2020, 08:49:42 am »

Well yeah i didn't factor in the blowout home losses to UNT and WKU....i forgot about that.

San Jose state too lol
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2020, 08:52:09 am »



Nevertheless, the point being Arkansas has no room to ridicule the any other school for under achieving.

Sure we do.  It's our board.  Why do you care who we ridicule here?  Wasn't surpised to see RME was the one who started this derailment.  First time I had an interaction here on Hogville was when I said VT had been the most overrated program in college football since the Vick season and RME had to respond.  Other programs besides ours can underachieve or get much more hype than they deserve.  We don't always have to kick ourselves and can discuss other programs exclusive of ours. 

Athog

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2020, 08:58:20 am »

It's like the two programs are virtually identical, man!

Anyway, the tweeter is a Longhorn, so assuming a troll job.






Let’s quit acting like we are jealous of Texas! That is Oklahoma’s job.


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oldhawg

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2020, 08:59:17 am »

Looking for positives:

"Since taking over play-calling duties prior to the Cotton Bowl at the end of the 2014 season, when his Baylor offense set an NCAA bowl record with 601 passing yards against Michigan State, Briles’ offenses have averaged 39.5 points per game."

https://tinyurl.com/Kendal-Briles-bio

Barry Odom as defensive coordinator:

"Memphis ranked 117th nationally in total defense in 2011, the season before Odom joined staff. Three years later, Memphis ranked 28th."

"After the 2014 season, Missouri needed a new defensive coordinator after Dave Steckel left to become the head coach at Missouri State. Pinkel tabbed Odom as Steckel's replacement.[11]

"Odom's Tigers ranked ninth in the nation in total defense, allowing just 302.0 yards per game. Since the NCAA began tracking defensive statistics in 1978, this marks the first time in MU history that Mizzou has had a top-10 defense. Odom's defense was also ranked seventh nationally in scoring defense (16.2 avg.), seventh in pass defense (169.2 avg.) and second in tackles for loss (8.8 avg.)."

https://tinyurl.com/Barry-Odom-bio

Why not be optimistic.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:55:26 am by Wisco Pig »
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2020, 09:00:24 am »

As far as we know, A&M didn't force Bobby to have the affair, believe he was untouchable, wreck the motorcycle or have the 41st ranked recruiting class in 2010 which ended up being an almost complete bust.

A&M didn't force the interim hire of JLS and the lost recruiting year in 2012 which was somewhat saved at the end with Bielema and Pittman getting Collins, Kirkland and Skipper.  Two largely busts of recruiting classes in 4 years at a program who recruits at a lower level than most of its competition. 

A&M didn't cause Bielema's complete lack of discipline, his stupid decision to stop recruiting offensive linemen or the exit of Pittman. 

A&M didn't hire Morris for us due to our obsession with Texas and spread offenses(and nobody wanting the job due to Bret's management of the program).


All of these things happened exclusive of A&M. 
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Boardon Hamsay

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2020, 09:13:20 am »

A&M hasn't hurt us. Hiring crappy coaches that can't recruit and develop Players has killed us. Trying to go cheap on coaches and staff is why we are here . Playing A&M in Texas has helped get us in front of Texas kids . but who wants to play for a Guy like Morris if you can go elsewhere . he did get better recruits than his skill set should have

I disagree. aTm being an "in Texas" avenue to play in the SEC is a headwind to Arkansas recruiting in Texas. Playing in Texas helps us with exposure, sure. If you think though that we have as much of a chance of landing Texas recruits that want to play in the SEC with aTm in the league vs our pre-aTm entering the SEC chances, I'd question your thought process and geography understanding all day. aTm is now a closer to home SEC affiliated option for a portion of Texas recruits. So, if you have say, an east Texas recruit that wants to play in the SEC and is also weighing among other things, that balance of being somewhat close to home but also feeling like they are "going off to college", it's advantage aTm. I think there are a portion of Arkansas fans that will always live in denial on this for a number of reasons such as our historical record against aTm still being favorable at the moment and of course, wearing the "Good for aTm giving the middle finger to UT" short sighted blinders.

If you really want to know what's hurt us more than aTm being in the league, let's be brutally honest. It our culture. We are like the Cincinnati Bengals of college football culturally and it starts with management. You say we hire on the cheap. Fine. Let's peel that onion back another layer and ask why? You'll find a ditch to ditch resulted, jumbled mess of small numbered, high dollar, egotistical factions that each want to have some pull in how the football program is run without anything resembling alignment on where we need to go. If you want to call it more simply a tennis match between GOBN vs non-GOBN factions, fine. It's still a split culture that starts at the top and feeds down into how we are managed and into our overall culture and fan base. We're divided into NWA against the rest of Hog nation. Should we also go into the split stadium(s) thing too? If you really look honestly, it isn't cheap hires or lack of money for staff.  We're where we are because we're fractured, we're quite honestly, fragile culturally, and it starts at the top and feeds downstream.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:27:29 am by Boardon Hamsay »
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2020, 09:18:07 am »

Looking for positives:

"Since taking over play-calling duties prior to the Cotton Bowl at the end of the 2014 season, when his Baylor offense set an NCAA bowl record with 601 passing yards against Michigan State, Briles’ offenses have averaged 39.5 points per game."

https://tinyurl.com/Kendal-Briles-bio

Barry Odom as defensive coordinator:

"Memphis ranked 117th nationally in total defense in 2011, the season before Odom joined staff. Three years later, Memphis ranked 28th."

"After the 2014 season, Missouri needed a new defensive coordinator after Dave Steckel left to become the head coach at Missouri State. Pinkel tabbed Odom as Steckel's replacement.[11]

"Odom's Tigers ranked ninth in the nation in total defense, allowing just 302.0 yards per game. Since the NCAA began tracking defensive statistics in 1978, this marks the first time in MU history that Mizzou has had a top-10 defense. Odom's defense was also ranked seventh nationally in scoring defense (16.2 avg.), seventh in pass defense (169.2 avg.) and second in tackles for loss (8.8 avg.)."

https://tinyurl.com/Barry-Odom-bio

Why not be optimistic.

Can you take out the links to fix the thread?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:24:30 am by Wisco Pig »
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Wisco Pig

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2020, 09:26:06 am »

Can you take out the links to fix the thread?

Fix'd the links
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oldhawg

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2020, 09:32:44 am »

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2020, 09:44:19 am »

I disagree. aTm being an "in Texas" avenue to play in the SEC is a headwind to Arkansas recruiting in Texas. Playing in Texas helps us with exposure, sure. If you think though that we have as much of a chance of landing Texas recruits that want to play in the SEC with aTm in the league vs our pre-aTm entering the SEC chances, I'd question your thought process and geography understanding all day. aTm is now a closer to home SEC affiliated option for a portion of Texas recruits. So, if you have say, an east Texas recruit that wants to play in the SEC and is also weighing among other things, that balance of being somewhat close to home but also feeling like they are "going off to college", it's advantage aTm. I think there are a portion of Arkansas fans that will always live in denial on this for a number of reasons such as our historical record against aTm still being favorable at the moment and of course, wearing the "Good for aTm giving the middle finger to UT" short sighted blinders.

If you really want to know what's hurt us more than aTm being in the league, let's be brutally honest. It our culture. We are like the Cincinnati Bengals of college football culturally and it starts with management. You say we hire on the cheap. Fine. Let's peel that onion back another layer and ask why? You'll find a ditch to ditch resulted, jumbled mess of small numbered, high dollar, egotistical factions that each want to have some pull in how the football program is run without anything resembling alignment on where we need to go. If you want to call it more simply a tennis match between GOBN vs non-GOBN factions, fine. It's still a split culture that starts at the top and feeds down into how we are managed and into our overall culture and fan base. We're divided into NWA against the rest of Hog nation. Should we also go into the split stadium(s) thing too? If you really look honestly, it isn't cheap hires or lack of money for staff.  We're where we are because we're fractured, we're quite honestly, fragile culturally, and it starts at the top and feeds downstream.

We've had on our own headwinds recruiting Texas - our coaches creating much of it.

Go back into the Nutt era (well before A&M to the SEC) and you will find erratic, inconsistent recruiting in Texas in numbers, levels of recruits from Texas and impact players.  It seems like some think we were recruiting like OU does Texas until A&M came to the SEC.  Nutt's last several classes from Texas were 3 stars and the majority busts.  Petrino got a few solid players from Texas in 2009 and then back to the norm in 2010 with low numbers and Big Tex. 
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rhames

Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2020, 10:05:53 am »

Sure we do.  It's our board.  Why do you care who we ridicule here?  Wasn't surpised to see RME was the one who started this derailment.  First time I had an interaction here on Hogville was when I said VT had been the most overrated program in college football since the Vick season and RME had to respond.  Other programs besides ours can underachieve or get much more hype than they deserve.  We don't always have to kick ourselves and can discuss other programs exclusive of ours. 



It's stupid to make fun of someone's house on fire while you live in a dumpster.


But whatever makes you feel better, I'll continue to point out hypocrisy when I see it.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2020, 10:33:56 am »

Sure we do.  It's our board.  Why do you care who we ridicule here?  Wasn't surpised to see RME was the one who started this derailment.  First time I had an interaction here on Hogville was when I said VT had been the most overrated program in college football since the Vick season and RME had to respond.  Other programs besides ours can underachieve or get much more hype than they deserve.  We don't always have to kick ourselves and can discuss other programs exclusive of ours.

Quote the post where I started the derailment. I mentioned neither A&M nor underachieving first in this thread.

And you're right, we can do that. We should also be able to admit when other programs are better or do something better than we do without being labeled a "troll" or "not a fan" or whatever else upsets the fragile status quo of this place.

HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2020, 11:17:30 am »

I would say it is more of a positive boost to A&M than a negative hit to Arkansas.
Although, there are negative hits to the Hogs. Are they huge? No. Are they insurmountable? No. But to say there isn't a recruiting hit at all would be foolish.

It's a significant enhancement of A&M's stature, and a by-product of that will be a detriment to Arkansas.

Even myself....I look at A&M differently now. In the SWC (and Big 12), they were always second-fiddle to Texas. And always would have been. Being able to strike out on their own and stand independently, and in a better conference to boot, was huge for them. It's the best move they've ever made. Even when taking into account that yes, our program lately hasn't been at its strongest, as Bret always said 'you are what your record says you are'. Well, the record vs A&M in the SWC was decidedly in favor of Arkansas. In the SEC, it's all A&M. Regardless of what we are....they are somewhat stronger, no doubt.

It also should be noted that our last win against them, in the Bobby era at its peak in 2011, was a come-from-behind win trailing 35-17 at halftime and Sherman making some questionable moves and Bobby making the right ones. In other words, they probably had us on talent even that year but got outcoached.

And then there is the loss of our marquee, traditional Friday-after-Thanksgiving game with LSU, which we had snatched away from us and given to....drum roll...A&M. I'm still fuming a little over that. We had so many great tussles with LSU in that game. Obviously, if A&M isn't in the league that doesn't happen. To be fair, we do still have a Friday CBS game but now it's Mizzou, not the same.

And then there is the simple fact that it adds one more tough West divisional game we have to play.

Nothing but negatives. Can you quantify the negative impact? Not really. But I think everyone can now agree, it's certainly not a positive at all, it's merely a debate on 'how negative' is it.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2020, 11:52:58 am »

I would say it is more of a positive boost to A&M than a negative hit to Arkansas.
Although, there are negative hits to the Hogs. Are they huge? No. Are they insurmountable? No. But to say there isn't a recruiting hit at all would be foolish.

It's a significant enhancement of A&M's stature, and a by-product of that will be a detriment to Arkansas.

Even myself....I look at A&M differently now. In the SWC (and Big 12), they were always second-fiddle to Texas. And always would have been. Being able to strike out on their own and stand independently, and in a better conference to boot, was huge for them. It's the best move they've ever made. Even when taking into account that yes, our program lately hasn't been at its strongest, as Bret always said 'you are what your record says you are'. Well, the record vs A&M in the SWC was decidedly in favor of Arkansas. In the SEC, it's all A&M. Regardless of what we are....they are somewhat stronger, no doubt.

It also should be noted that our last win against them, in the Bobby era at its peak in 2011, was a come-from-behind win trailing 35-17 at halftime and Sherman making some questionable moves and Bobby making the right ones. In other words, they probably had us on talent even that year but got outcoached.

And then there is the loss of our marquee, traditional Friday-after-Thanksgiving game with LSU, which we had snatched away from us and given to....drum roll...A&M. I'm still fuming a little over that. We had so many great tussles with LSU in that game. Obviously, if A&M isn't in the league that doesn't happen. To be fair, we do still have a Friday CBS game but now it's Mizzou, not the same.

And then there is the simple fact that it adds one more tough West divisional game we have to play.

Nothing but negatives. Can you quantify the negative impact? Not really. But I think everyone can now agree, it's certainly not a positive at all, it's merely a debate on 'how negative' is it.

Conference expansion has been a negative for many of the programs who don't have a recruiting advantage:  Arkansas, Mizzou, Nebraska, Colorado.  No coincidence we are in the middle of the country without the population/demographics many of our competitors have.  I've lamented before what conference expansion has done to the balance of college football especially after the Big 12 fell apart.  Plus the playoffs too as far as a chance to win a NC. 

Mizzou did well in the SECE as it was down but has shown it cannot be competitive with the best of the SECW. 
Nebraska has become a has been program now that they can't dominate a plains states conference of 8 teams.  Colorado has been to 6 bowls in 20 seasons. 

Even A&M in 2012 with Manziel.  They would have likely played for the NC if they had been in the Big 12.  They wouldn't have had to face the defenses of LSU and Florida who were built to stop their offense. 

The SEC did not need to get deeper.  Other conferences did.  Said it at the time.  Why I didn't want A&M. 
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Deep Shoat

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #93 on: September 25, 2020, 12:08:11 pm »

Arkansas since 2012 hasn't beaten Texas A&M once in 8 straight tries but has beaten LSU, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Tennessee, and Florida.

TAMU joining has hurt Arkansas.
I think you are missing something about correlation and causation. 

Now how did that go...?
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Mike_e

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2020, 12:15:34 pm »

I’m tempted to go back to my posts in 2012, telling everyone that TAMU joining the SEC was terrible for us.  Of course, nearly everyone disagreed.

Maybe they were but pulling them out of the big whatever has effectively neutered that conference.

If we can ever get our chit in one sock that will actually help us in our quest for another MNC.  In other words, it's always been on us after all.
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code red

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2020, 12:41:49 pm »

Win or lose.  It will be an improvement over the last 2 years.  But yeah.  We will go down.
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Sweet Feet

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2020, 04:14:37 pm »

I think you are missing something about correlation and causation. 

Now how did that go...?

It's just to point out this notion of TAMU joining not hurting Arkansas is ridiculous. Arkansas has a lot of self-inflicted blows since 2012, but they still have been able to beat 4 other SEC west teams and 4 other SEC east teams since then. Waiting for almost 10 years to beat TAMU for the first time as a SEC member is the biggest indication that the move has hurt Arkansas.
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tophawg19

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2020, 04:52:48 pm »

Well, this board loves to talk about how we have an advantage over recruits in say, Oklahoma, because we can offer them SEC football.

Once A&M entered the conference, and being the only school in Texas to do so, so could they.

A&M's average recruiting class ranking the 9 years prior to joining the SEC was 19, and the 9 years since being in the SEC, it's 11. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

They've also ranked higher than us every year in recruiting since joining the SEC (there were years in those prior 9 seasons to them joining the SEC where we actually ranked higher). Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that.

And they've beaten us every single year since they joined the SEC. Not sure how much Bobby P has to do with that, because there's no way to know if he would've continued beating them when, you know, they joined the SEC.

Have we hurt ourselves with our hires? Well, yeah. Absolutely we have. But that doesn't change what's happened since A&M entered the conference.

So again, I ask, how has joining them not hurt us?
they hired name coaches and assistants . we hired Cheap coaches and assistants . That kept us at a Disadvantage in recruiting . You will never Out recruit The AG's or UT in Texas but I think this staff can steal some we wouldn't get otherwise . We don't need to beat the top two Texas teams as Much as Beat the Big ten teams who constantly steal top Texas kids
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2020, 04:55:15 pm »

Conference expansion has been a negative for many of the programs who don't have a recruiting advantage:  Arkansas, Mizzou, Nebraska, Colorado.  No coincidence we are in the middle of the country without the population/demographics many of our competitors have.  I've lamented before what conference expansion has done to the balance of college football especially after the Big 12 fell apart.  Plus the playoffs too as far as a chance to win a NC. 

Mizzou did well in the SECE as it was down but has shown it cannot be competitive with the best of the SECW. 
Nebraska has become a has been program now that they can't dominate a plains states conference of 8 teams.  Colorado has been to 6 bowls in 20 seasons. 

Even A&M in 2012 with Manziel.  They would have likely played for the NC if they had been in the Big 12.  They wouldn't have had to face the defenses of LSU and Florida who were built to stop their offense. 

The SEC did not need to get deeper.  Other conferences did.  Said it at the time.  Why I didn't want A&M.
---> The SEC did not need to get deeper.  Other conferences did.  Said it at the time.  Why I didn't want A&M.


Totally agree.
The SEC is usually a leader in things. Like now, they're leading the pack, rightly or wrongly, on deciding to play football now. Now the Big Ten is forced to reverse course and follow suit.

But with the conference expansions, I felt the SEC caved to the moment and decided to expand just because that's what everyone else was doing. They feared standing pat. But the SEC didn't HAVE to do anything. It was already the strongest league in football. In basketball, A&M and Missouri are good but you're not adding dominant programs there that will greatly enhance the league's basketball status either.

The SEC HAD to expand in 1992 in order to get to 12 and have a championship football game. They didn't have to do squat in 2012 but played follow the leader then.

It has hurt Arkansas more than most, and I also hate that geographically they brought in a poor fit with Missouri who is clearly a Midwestern state that should be playing Kansas every year, not Alabama.

Just a dumb move by the SEC.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What we are up against!!!
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2020, 04:57:47 pm »

they hired name coaches and assistants . we hired Cheap coaches and assistants . That kept us at a Disadvantage in recruiting . You will never Out recruit The AG's or UT in Texas but I think this staff can steal some we wouldn't get otherwise . We don't need to beat the top two Texas teams as Much as Beat the Big ten teams who constantly steal top Texas kids
C'mon man.
How much more of a 'name' coach could we possibly get than Bret Bielema? He was a very established coach.

Hiring the right guy is more important than a name with a huge salary which has been proven is not guaranteed to work.

Most of the best coaches we've ever had were lesser, 'cheap' names when hired. (Eddie, Nolan, McDonnell, Broyles, etc)
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