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Author Topic: Breaking: NBA suspends season  (Read 2144 times)

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alohawg

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Breaking: NBA suspends season
« on: March 11, 2020, 08:38:45 pm »

Unbelievable
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Killean

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2020, 08:40:55 pm »

Unbelievable

Rudy Gobert tested positive and the Jazz/Thunder game tonight was canceled just before tip off.

Both teams are currently being quarantined in the locker rooms.


Also, Tom Hanks and his Wife confirmed that they have tested positive in Australia.

The World is not in a great spot.
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LogHog

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2020, 08:43:35 pm »

Yeah and no travel to US from Europe for thirty days.  Glad I got that truck load of Heinekin yesterday. 
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Pigín round

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2020, 09:03:56 pm »

Rudy Gobert tested positive and the Jazz/Thunder game tonight was canceled just before tip off.

Both teams are currently being quarantined in the locker rooms.


Also, Tom Hanks and his Wife confirmed that they have tested positive in Australia.

The World is not in a great spot.

I think people have looked at the death rates in China and have wrote it off as just another flu.

Unfortunately it is nothing like the flu. Current hospitalization rate is 20%, and with the rate of infection... China actually did the right thing basically quarantining 60 million people to get it under control.

The death rate in areas who took a less drastic approach is closer to 5% as hospitals are overrun and are not able to care for patients.  Guess which category the US falls under!

Itís not going to be good folks.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2020, 09:24:27 pm »

Unbelievable

Well, before, we had the money to use our resources and stop diseases in their original country before they spread.

Now, we had to pass an emergency 8 billion dollar bill to try and play catch up in our own country because the budget had been slashed and it's going to cost probably hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2020, 10:07:25 pm »

Well, before, we had the money to use our resources and stop diseases in their original country before they spread.

Now, we had to pass an emergency 8 billion dollar bill to try and play catch up in our own country because the budget had been slashed and it's going to cost probably hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses.

did you jus take the accusation that the CDC cuts are responsible for the virus cost now?  That is crazy, the CDC could have double the staff and we'd still be in the same exact spot
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2020, 10:21:43 pm »

The one thing worse than a pandemic is a panic.................
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jvanhorn

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2020, 12:45:41 am »

did you jus take the accusation that the CDC cuts are responsible for the virus cost now?  That is crazy, the CDC could have double the staff and we'd still be in the same exact spot.

How do you know that?  LOL, the lack of anyone being accountable for anything is slowly sending this country down the drain.
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TheGrove68

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2020, 01:02:49 am »

Yeah and no travel to US from Europe for thirty days.  Glad I got that truck load of Heinekin yesterday.

Rather have the C-Virus than drink that....now I will go full terrorist if we can't get Guinness
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TheGrove68

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2020, 01:07:02 am »

I think people have looked at the death rates in China and have wrote it off as just another flu.

Unfortunately it is nothing like the flu. Current hospitalization rate is 20%, and with the rate of infection... China actually did the right thing basically quarantining 60 million people to get it under control.

The death rate in areas who took a less drastic approach is closer to 5% as hospitals are overrun and are not able to care for patients.  Guess which category the US falls under!

Itís not going to be good folks.

Factor out the 15% fatality rate for those over 80 and it's not as bad as you make it out to be...8% for 70+...3.6% 60+, 1.3%50+,less than 1% after that....It's really hard on those over 60%.

At the end of the day I bet less than 10 thousand die world wide. Not a Grim Reaper level event by any means.
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TheGrove68

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2020, 01:10:26 am »

did you jus take the accusation that the CDC cuts are responsible for the virus cost now?  That is crazy, the CDC could have double the staff and we'd still be in the same exact spot

My GF with her Microbiology degree is also a RN on a CDC task force.....they fear the Panic and media over blowing the situation more than the Virus. She said last week everyone would over react and that things would shut down because those in control would be so scared if they didn't they would get bad press and the bad PR would destroy their careers and lead to possible litigation.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2020, 04:54:28 am »

did you jus take the accusation that the CDC cuts are responsible for the virus cost now?  That is crazy, the CDC could have double the staff and we'd still be in the same exact spot.

How do you know that?  LOL, the lack of anyone being accountable for anything is slowly sending this country down the drain.

Seriously?  The entire world is on this.  The rest of your comment has nothing to do with this.   
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Pork Twain

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2020, 06:30:50 am »

I stopped watching the NBA when they stopped calling double-dribbles and travelling, so it has been a while.  Now it is more like the WWE than college basketball.
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husker71

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2020, 08:16:37 am »

yea   who wants to watch the greatest athletes in the world
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2020, 09:51:45 am »

yea   who wants to watch the greatest athletes in the world

When did they cancel dog jumping?
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Killean

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2020, 10:24:42 am »

Factor out the 15% fatality rate for those over 80 and it's not as bad as you make it out to be...8% for 70+...3.6% 60+, 1.3%50+,less than 1% after that....It's really hard on those over 60%.

At the end of the day I bet less than 10 thousand die world wide. Not a Grim Reaper level event by any means.

I'll see your bet and raise that it will pass 10,000 dead by the end of March.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2020, 10:57:35 am »

did you jus take the accusation that the CDC cuts are responsible for the virus cost now?  That is crazy, the CDC could have double the staff and we'd still be in the same exact spot

Solely responsible? No. Would we be in substantially better shape than we are right now? Absolutely.

CDC was given extra money during the Ebola outbreak to continue to fight disease outbreaks in foreign countries, including China. In 2018, that money began to run out and they had to scale their efforts back by 80% including removing efforts entirely in China. You think that had NO impact whatsoever?

You want to talk about cats and dogs living together levels of panic, House Democrats sent a bill to the Senate who'd rather cut off their own noses than be seen working with Dem's but they still passed the Bill and the President who'd rather eliminate the CDC than give them an extra 8 billion decided to also sign the bill. If all those people who have mutual hate for each other with 2/3 hating the very govt they work for decided that the CDC needed more money, then odds are pretty good that that extra money is pretty darn important.

States with populations of many millions of people only have a few hundreds of tests available to them right now. Kind of hard to stop the spread of a disease when you can't test people who might have it. Obviously given the nature of the disease where you can be asymptomatic for up to 10 days, testing people isn't going to be fullproof unless you test 100% and that's never going to happen. However, if 10 people get it and you catch 7 of them with testing due to being in contact with somebody, that is a huge win and drastically slows the spread of the virus.
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HoginIllinois

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2020, 11:02:13 am »

I'll see your bet and raise that it will pass 10,000 dead by the end of March.

I'll bet you 12 rolls of Charmin and 6 bottles of Purell.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2020, 11:05:30 am »

Factor out the 15% fatality rate for those over 80 and it's not as bad as you make it out to be...8% for 70+...3.6% 60+, 1.3%50+,less than 1% after that....It's really hard on those over 60%.

At the end of the day I bet less than 10 thousand die world wide. Not a Grim Reaper level event by any means.

We are just under 5,000 right now.

6 days ago that number was 3,000.

21 days ago that number was just over 2,000.

There was an initial number of about 1600 deaths in China when the disease was first being found out about.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2020, 11:06:03 am »

I'll bet you 12 rolls of Charmin and 6 bottles of Purell.

Are you Jeff Bezos to be able to afford such luxury?
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onebadrubi

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2020, 11:43:49 am »

Solely responsible? No. Would we be in substantially better shape than we are right now? Absolutely.

CDC was given extra money during the Ebola outbreak to continue to fight disease outbreaks in foreign countries, including China. In 2018, that money began to run out and they had to scale their efforts back by 80% including removing efforts entirely in China. You think that had NO impact whatsoever?

You want to talk about cats and dogs living together levels of panic, House Democrats sent a bill to the Senate who'd rather cut off their own noses than be seen working with Dem's but they still passed the Bill and the President who'd rather eliminate the CDC than give them an extra 8 billion decided to also sign the bill. If all those people who have mutual hate for each other with 2/3 hating the very govt they work for decided that the CDC needed more money, then odds are pretty good that that extra money is pretty darn important.

States with populations of many millions of people only have a few hundreds of tests available to them right now. Kind of hard to stop the spread of a disease when you can't test people who might have it. Obviously given the nature of the disease where you can be asymptomatic for up to 10 days, testing people isn't going to be fullproof unless you test 100% and that's never going to happen. However, if 10 people get it and you catch 7 of them with testing due to being in contact with somebody, that is a huge win and drastically slows the spread of the virus.

What exactly did you expect the CDC to do say Feb 15th?  If you want to talk about emergency funds weren't available fast enough, I get, but to say every agency needs more funding for just in case, thats Bernie type lunacy.  We should go ahead and double the CDC for the next virus, the Bennyflu.  Must have testing kits available at every hospital by midnight on Friday!
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The Kig

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2020, 12:16:38 pm »

States with populations of many millions of people only have a few hundreds of tests available to them right now. Kind of hard to stop the spread of a disease when you can't test people who might have it.

Testing isn't a money issue, unless you work for one of the companies currently racing to get their product to market who will reap a massive windfall if their product is first to market.   This is true for both the vaccine and testing companies, just gotta figure out which horse to bet on.  Wanna know why Coronavirus hasn't become more readily available until now?  It wasn't worth the money to develop a test for a low incident rate virus with symptoms so mild most people have no idea they even had it.

The testing availability issue is a function of our own antiquated FDA approval process which is out of step with rapidly evolving medical emergencies.  While completely necessary to ensure that products do what they claim, it's slow and cumbersome in the name of product safety.  Ironically, a product doesn't have to be safe, effective, or even work at all to get FDA approval.  It simply has to do what your data shows and you can't claim a connection to something it probably also does.  For example- if your submission document states that you correctly identify 95% of positive cases, but a negative answer is only right about 40%... then that is your package insert claim based on your data.  Sounds ludicrous, right?  Well... that is the vast majority of rapid flu testing still done in the US today. 

As I stated above, several strains have been included in panels for years, just not this strain.  Spoke with a research scientist buddy at one of the 3 companies developing a COVID-19 test this week.  They had a lot in production within a couple of weeks with 95%+ sensitivity/specificity... but even with EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) FDA fast track, their absolute best case is next year.  The same timeline or even longer looks to be the case for a vaccine.

The issue with testing in the US snowballed quickly.  CDC centralized testing, which doesn't work well here.  Then they tried to roll it out to the state level and still limit it to designated labs, which are constrained by many factors like product availability, staffing and even a process to get the sample.  The public expectation is that we can go to our local walk-in clinic and get an answer quickly, which creates a huge disconnect.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2020, 01:52:10 pm »

What exactly did you expect the CDC to do say Feb 15th?  If you want to talk about emergency funds weren't available fast enough, I get, but to say every agency needs more funding for just in case, thats Bernie type lunacy.  We should go ahead and double the CDC for the next virus, the Bennyflu.  Must have testing kits available at every hospital by midnight on Friday!

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Yeah, I'd rather spend 10 billion more per year to prevent a once in a decade loss of 500 billion.

Problem is, when that ounce of prevention works, people forget what happens when they don't have it and suddenly start looking to shave an extra ounce off.

Same reason you have the big anti-vaxxer movement today. People who never experienced what it was like to live in a pre-vaccine world and the dangers of things like smallpox and polio start to look at mandatory vaccines as overkill. That extra "ounce" starts to look like dead weight forgetting the pound of cure it was preventing.
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bennyl08

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2020, 02:05:47 pm »

Testing isn't a money issue, unless you work for one of the companies currently racing to get their product to market who will reap a massive windfall if their product is first to market.   This is true for both the vaccine and testing companies, just gotta figure out which horse to bet on.  Wanna know why Coronavirus hasn't become more readily available until now?  It wasn't worth the money to develop a test for a low incident rate virus with symptoms so mild most people have no idea they even had it.

The testing availability issue is a function of our own antiquated FDA approval process which is out of step with rapidly evolving medical emergencies.  While completely necessary to ensure that products do what they claim, it's slow and cumbersome in the name of product safety.  Ironically, a product doesn't have to be safe, effective, or even work at all to get FDA approval.  It simply has to do what your data shows and you can't claim a connection to something it probably also does.  For example- if your submission document states that you correctly identify 95% of positive cases, but a negative answer is only right about 40%... then that is your package insert claim based on your data.  Sounds ludicrous, right?  Well... that is the vast majority of rapid flu testing still done in the US today. 

As I stated above, several strains have been included in panels for years, just not this strain.  Spoke with a research scientist buddy at one of the 3 companies developing a COVID-19 test this week.  They had a lot in production within a couple of weeks with 95%+ sensitivity/specificity... but even with EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) FDA fast track, their absolute best case is next year.  The same timeline or even longer looks to be the case for a vaccine.

The issue with testing in the US snowballed quickly.  CDC centralized testing, which doesn't work well here.  Then they tried to roll it out to the state level and still limit it to designated labs, which are constrained by many factors like product availability, staffing and even a process to get the sample.  The public expectation is that we can go to our local walk-in clinic and get an answer quickly, which creates a huge disconnect.

I agree that mindless throwing money at a problem is rarely if ever going to actually solve a problem and often makes things worse.

You also describe a fundamental problem with our entire healthcare industry. On one hand, you have the high regulation factor from the government to make sure that the medicine isn't worse than the disease and is safe and actually works. So that people don't spend 300 bucks a pop for something that at best does nothing and at worst might hurt them. On the other hand though, you have the US still trying to keep the healthcare industry as a free market endeavor. Which means that the companies that actually do things are motivated by profit more than actually providing healthcare.

Thus, govt regulations limit the private sector from operating as efficiently as the otherwise could, but in terms of efficiently treating the disease, there's no  motivation from the companies because like you said, it's not profitable. Ounce of prevention to prevent a pound of cure isn't really good for companies. Why spend money finding a test or vaccine for covid-19 until it's profitable to do so? But, by the time it's profitable to do so, thousands of people will have died. There's a vested interest to make sure what the companies do sell is safe and works, but then when they need to move fast, those regulations slow the process down. Only way to get around that is to either force research into tests sooner which will result in more costs and less if any profit to companies more often than not, or to then a high probability of unreliable or even unsafe tests and vaccines hitting the market sooner. Or, do nothing and keep where we currently are, gambling that major outbreaks of new diseases will be rare and weather the costs associated when they do happen.
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sooie84

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2020, 02:47:29 pm »

Increased testing is on the way but would not expect it to be available until the end of March. In a number of places, health care workers are being barred from testing stable patients who are highly suspected of having disease.
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The Kig

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2020, 05:53:55 pm »

There's a vested interest to make sure what the companies do sell is safe and works, but then when they need to move fast, those regulations slow the process down. Only way to get around that is to either force research into tests sooner which will result in more costs and less if any profit to companies more often than not, or to then a high probability of unreliable or even unsafe tests and vaccines hitting the market sooner. Or, do nothing and keep where we currently are, gambling that major outbreaks of new diseases will be rare and weather the costs associated when they do happen.

There's a third path emerging that is going to force change.  Genetics.  Moore's Law has been exceeded several times in the last 5 years with the what we know about the human genome. 

The FDA requires you to draw a line in the sand at a fixed point.  Even innocuous changes to label design require data collection, clinical trials (multiple phases over multiple sites), significant time/resource investment and money. 

The main distinction between traditional testing and genetic testing is the root question being asked.  Traditional testing asks "is this thing in this sample", which compares a known positive (control) with the patient sample to detect presence or quantity.  The limitation is that results are ONLY provided for the very specific question asked.  Genetics can do that, but additionally can ask a broader more agnostic question like,  "what's in this sample" with very few assumptions about the expected result.

The Coronavirus testing availability issue is a perfect example of this problem.  The companies who have already been providing Coronavirus testing for 5+ years can only ID strains that were known at the time of submission.  Whether COVID-19 strain is a mutation or simply not previously identified, it has to be added.  As a result, the one company left standing that was sequencing instead of amplification was chosen by CDC in the first EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) cycle. 

Since Coronavirus has been known for years without the corresponding outbreak of today, the few companies who developed testing had zero reason to look for other strains.  The real kicker, since you only find what you're looking for with traditional methods, we have no idea whether COVID-19 has been floating around for years and just mistaken for the flu.
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rufus

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2020, 07:22:05 pm »

There's a third path emerging that is going to force change.  Genetics.  Moore's Law has been exceeded several times in the last 5 years with the what we know about the human genome. 

The FDA requires you to draw a line in the sand at a fixed point.  Even innocuous changes to label design require data collection, clinical trials (multiple phases over multiple sites), significant time/resource investment and money. 

The main distinction between traditional testing and genetic testing is the root question being asked.  Traditional testing asks "is this thing in this sample", which compares a known positive (control) with the patient sample to detect presence or quantity.  The limitation is that results are ONLY provided for the very specific question asked.  Genetics can do that, but additionally can ask a broader more agnostic question like,  "what's in this sample" with very few assumptions about the expected result.

The Coronavirus testing availability issue is a perfect example of this problem.  The companies who have already been providing Coronavirus testing for 5+ years can only ID strains that were known at the time of submission.  Whether COVID-19 strain is a mutation or simply not previously identified, it has to be added.  As a result, the one company left standing that was sequencing instead of amplification was chosen by CDC in the first EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) cycle. 

Since Coronavirus has been known for years without the corresponding outbreak of today, the few companies who developed testing had zero reason to look for other strains.  The real kicker, since you only find what you're looking for with traditional methods, we have no idea whether COVID-19 has been floating around for years and just mistaken for the flu.

I went to the store to get toilet paper because cnn said I should and I saw a guy leaving with a case of Corona in his cart
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nuttless hog

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2020, 07:41:38 pm »

Solely responsible? No. Would we be in substantially better shape than we are right now? Absolutely.

CDC was given extra money during the Ebola outbreak to continue to fight disease outbreaks in foreign countries, including China. In 2018, that money began to run out and they had to scale their efforts back by 80% including removing efforts entirely in China. You think that had NO impact whatsoever?

You want to talk about cats and dogs living together levels of panic, House Democrats sent a bill to the Senate who'd rather cut off their own noses than be seen working with Dem's but they still passed the Bill and the President who'd rather eliminate the CDC than give them an extra 8 billion decided to also sign the bill. If all those people who have mutual hate for each other with 2/3 hating the very govt they work for decided that the CDC needed more money, then odds are pretty good that that extra money is pretty darn important.

States with populations of many millions of people only have a few hundreds of tests available to them right now. Kind of hard to stop the spread of a disease when you can't test people who might have it. Obviously given the nature of the disease where you can be asymptomatic for up to 10 days, testing people isn't going to be fullproof unless you test 100% and that's never going to happen. However, if 10 people get it and you catch 7 of them with testing due to being in contact with somebody, that is a huge win and drastically slows the spread of the virus.
so who are you really chuck,Nancy,or joe.you are a pitiful person to turn thi into politics
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SeldomHere

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Re: Breaking: NBA suspends season
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2020, 12:23:35 pm »

Back to no NBA.

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