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Author Topic: This is all you need to know about Morris...  (Read 6605 times)

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porque

This is all you need to know about Morris...
« on: November 10, 2019, 11:19:21 am »

Worst SEC coaching tenures of the modern era:
Chad Morris, Ark: 4-18, 0-14
Rod Dowhower, Vandy: 4-18, 1-15
Ed Orgeron, Ole Miss: 10-25, 3-21
Woody Widenhofer, VU: 15-40, 4-36
Joker Phillips, 13-24, 4-20
Derek Dooley, Tenn: 17-21, 5-19

WorfHog

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 12:15:59 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.

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TeufelHog

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2019, 12:21:19 pm »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.

PORKULATOR

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2019, 12:23:12 pm »

He'll go somewhere else and be a winner I guarantee it. We are cursed we are an embarrassing shame and we've ruined coach before if the next coach isn't the perfect fit it will set our program back a decade.
Nobody does more with less then who's ever playing us every week and nobody does less with more than who's ever coaching the Arkansas Razorbacks.

Fan1958

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 12:23:35 pm »

And for those saying Chad needed a 3rd year, the records of those listed would indicate otherwise. All but Dowhower got at least 3 years with no improvement at all.
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Razor1997

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 12:23:37 pm »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.
It certainly doesn't hurt that Ed is probably the single best recruiter in the college football world.

Razor1997

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 12:24:37 pm »

He'll go somewhere else and be a winner I guarantee it. We are cursed we are an embarrassing shame and we've ruined coach before if the next coach isn't the perfect fit it will set our program back a decade.
Nobody does more with less then who's ever playing us every week and nobody does less with more than who's ever coaching the Arkansas Razorbacks.

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.
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TNRazorbacker

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2019, 12:27:38 pm »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.

Its also possible it was just a learning process
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Redhogs

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2019, 12:27:45 pm »

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.
Ha, ha, ha, yea, I'm not going to worry about that just now.......

Killean

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2019, 12:31:30 pm »

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.

I doubt it.  He might end up as the OC at A&M and then their offense will crater and he'd get himself and Jimbo fired.

Bacons Rebellion

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2019, 12:39:10 pm »

Heck Clark was 0-36 at Sewanee before they dropped out of the SEC.

Kind of a pity we didn't let Morris go for the all-time record.
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(notOM)Rebel123

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2019, 12:41:16 pm »

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.

Dang dude. You worry waaaay too much.
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hog of steele

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2019, 12:42:45 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.

It isn't impossible for Chad to become a good coach. He has some positive characteristics. He does recruit well. He does do well in interviews (that aren't all about how crappy he is coaching).

He just has some stuff to learn. Sometimes failure teaches you what you need to learn. So he will go coach on another staff. He will pay more attention to how the coach builds winning culture, organizes his team for winning and balances offensive philosophy with the player's ability.

It is totally possible that chad gets it all together and breaks through. But this was clearly not his moment.
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hog of steele

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2019, 12:43:55 pm »

I doubt it.  He might end up as the OC at A&M and then their offense will crater and he'd get himself and Jimbo fired.

Is that how it worked at Clemson?
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Killean

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2019, 12:45:48 pm »

Is that how it worked at Clemson?

They got rid of Chad and went on to win national titles.

Chad isn't the first OC to build an unwarranted rep based on the exploits of a great player.  He won't be the last.

He will NEVER be an FBS head coach again.  It's doubtful that he will be an FBS coordinator again, although some group of 5 team in desperate need might take a flyer.

BroyledNutts

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 12:54:24 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.

That's what happens when you have the ability to get highly ranked recruiting classes and players.
I would dare to think you could even place someone like Morris into a situation like LSU and have wins - maybe not #1 in the nation wins, but more wins than at Arkansas.

The capability of the head coach does have something to do with it - either through his own talents, or getting the most out of his assistants - but, in the end, it all depends on the recruiting pool.
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hogfan10

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2019, 12:55:24 pm »

They got rid of Chad and went on to win national titles.

Chad isn't the first OC to build an unwarranted rep based on the exploits of a great player.  He won't be the last.

He will NEVER be an FBS head coach again.  It's doubtful that he will be an FBS coordinator again, although some group of 5 team in desperate need might take a flyer.
Gus malzhan - McFadden/Newton.
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Muleriderhog

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2019, 12:56:45 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.
Ed O is a perfect CEO coach, he recruits and manages the Dline and let’s his coordinators do their job.

Muleriderhog

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2019, 12:57:34 pm »

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.
Jimbo won’t hire this loser.

TheEnemy

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2019, 01:01:53 pm »

Ed O is a perfect CEO coach, he recruits and manages the Dline and let’s his coordinators do their job.

I believe he is on record saying that he learned that after being fired from Ole Miss.

Recognized that his talents were recruiting and motivating player.  Now he focuses on hiring good assistants and letting them coach and staying out of their way.

31to6

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2019, 01:02:40 pm »

Ed O is a perfect CEO coach, he recruits and manages the Dline and let’s his coordinators do their job.
Ed O learned this the hard way.

He was bad at OM. They had problems just getting players on and off the field. Complete clown show.

His success shows that it is possible for a motivational CEO-HC to do well, but he has to surround himself with top-notch coordinators and a seasoned staff.
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jim hog

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2019, 01:14:38 pm »

It would be prudent for the AD to solicit information from Ken Hatfield, Lou Holtz, Houston Nutt and possibly others who have experience at Fayetteville in the coaching  position before making a decision.
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PearlHarbor

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2019, 02:33:02 pm »

It would be prudent for the AD to solicit information from Ken Hatfield, Lou Holtz, Houston Nutt and possibly others who have experience at Fayetteville in the coaching  position before making a decision.

Houston Nutt?
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SMB Hogfan

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2019, 05:47:52 pm »

It would be prudent for the AD to solicit information from Ken Hatfield, Lou Holtz, Houston Nutt and possibly others who have experience at Fayetteville in the coaching  position before making a decision.

Yeah! He can ask the Hooter about airplanes, banners, and a piece of rope.
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farmhawg

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2019, 06:07:33 pm »

Worst SEC coaching tenures of the modern era:
Chad Morris, Ark: 4-18, 0-14
Rod Dowhower, Vandy: 4-18, 1-15
Ed Orgeron, Ole Miss: 10-25, 3-21
Woody Widenhofer, VU: 15-40, 4-36
Joker Phillips, 13-24, 4-20
Derek Dooley, Tenn: 17-21, 5-19
So what, it’s over.
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HogPharmer

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2019, 06:12:40 pm »

It certainly doesn't hurt that Ed is probably the single best recruiter in the college football world.

It certainly doesn’t hurt that he is from Louisiana and coaches at Louisiana and has the state of Louisiana, which is full of 4 and 5* recruits, to pick players from.

I_Called_That_Play_Brotha

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 07:13:21 pm »

Here's what I don't get: CCM legitimately believed his job was safe?!?!  HOW?!?!

Rumors are he went apesh*t when cut loose. Any truth to that? 🤔

Sivad

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 08:54:17 pm »

Jimbo won’t hire this loser.
Of course not.  Chex’s dream of coaching the Aggies has gone up in smoke.
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ballz2thewall

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2019, 08:57:11 pm »

i laugh at the posts like "he's only good because he's got good players or good assistants".

well.....YEAH!!

Hoggish1

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2019, 08:57:50 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.

It isn't odd when you consider he wakes up each morning in one of the richest recruiting grounds in the nation and it's all within 100 miles of Baton Rouge.
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Swinelake

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2019, 08:59:45 pm »

Not saying Chad would ever make a comeback, but it's odd that Ed O now has the #1 team in the nation.

Learned how to be a CEO. It's why Bret was starting to show serious progress before either he got lazy or his old demons rose up (depending on which rumor you believe)
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Hoggish1

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2019, 09:00:10 pm »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.

The recruiting grounds will be just as fertile when those assistants leave and they can hire new staff that will be talented and hungry like the old staff.
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Olla

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2019, 09:05:26 pm »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.

Orgeron is the CEO of the LSU program, but that's not a bad thing. Saban is the CEO of Alabama. He's no more hands-on with players than Orgeron is. Not saying the two are comparable, but Orgeron is the one who put this "FANTASTIC" staff together, so what's to say that he can't or won't go hire other fantastic assistants to replace those who leave? And he's shown the willingness to get rid of staff who doesn't mesh or doesn't work out...ie, Canada. He's also the front man for LSU's recruiting success and getting all those "TREMENDOUS" athletes. It's easy to bash on Coach Yaw Yaw, but he's doing a great job at LSU and this is his team.
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N HOG

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2019, 09:09:25 pm »

It certainly doesn't hurt that Ed is probably the single best recruiter in the college football world.

Yep...he amazingly gets those Louisiana kids to want to go to LSU.
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Olla

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2019, 09:10:59 pm »

Ed O is a perfect CEO coach, he recruits and manages the Dline and let’s his coordinators do their job.

Hey, a fellow Mulerider! I'm class of '99.
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Hawgphat

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2019, 09:21:21 pm »

Three Positive Indicators Promoting Unbridled Optimism Embedded In The Morris Firing:

(1)  Morris is gone.

(2)  Morris is gone.

(3)  Morris is gone.
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Olla

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2019, 09:26:10 pm »

Yep...he amazingly gets those Louisiana kids to want to go to LSU.

Two things. One, Louisiana kids are famous for leaving Louisiana. Saban has pretty much been able to hand-pick who he wants from Louisiana for the last several years. So if Coach Yaw Yaw can close down the borders, then that really is an accomplishment.

Two, Orgeron has been known as a good/great recruiter for most or all of his career. And I just took a look at LSU's current class. Only 8 of their 25 commitments are from Louisiana. He has 3 from Georgia and Texas...2 from Virginia, Maryland, and Florida...and 1 from Alabama, Cali, Colorado, DC, and Washington. So you can't diminish his ability to recruit when he has the no2 class (according to 247) from 10 different states and DC.
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Coach Obvious

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2019, 09:56:53 pm »

Maybe we shoulda let him finish the year out.

You know, to get sole possession of the record.

j/k
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31to6

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2019, 10:05:16 pm »

Yep...he amazingly gets those Louisiana kids to want to go to LSU.
If you you look deeper you will see that he has been a stellar recruiter everywhere he has coached.
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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2019, 10:50:16 pm »

I have this terrible feeling he will end up as the OC at A&M and will lay 50 on us year in and year out.

Jimbo should do that. Because I don't see what he does will translate as an OC at Aggieland. Jimbo ain't Dabo
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2019, 10:59:05 pm »

It isn't impossible for Chad to become a good coach. He has some positive characteristics. He does recruit well. He does do well in interviews (that aren't all about how crappy he is coaching).

He just has some stuff to learn. Sometimes failure teaches you what you need to learn. So he will go coach on another staff. He will pay more attention to how the coach builds winning culture, organizes his team for winning and balances offensive philosophy with the player's ability.

It is totally possible that chad gets it all together and breaks through. But this was clearly not his moment.
Good post.

I have always had the general philosophy that you have to give a guy 4-5 years, and a BARE MINIMUM of three.
I still believe that, it's sound philosophy.

However, I can't fault Yuracek's decision. First, Morris is not Yuracek's hire, so this move is not surprising. Every AD wants their own people in place.

I do hate the bad precedent it sends, as it could encourage guys to cheat, cut corners, and do things the quick and dirty way instead of the honest and right way. If you know that you may be gone in less than two years...how fair is that?

However, I will readily admit that Morris had not shown anything in two years on the field. He had shown above average recruiting ability, for sure. Last year's recruiting class was very, very good. But he had not given Hog fans any spark of optimism that better days were ahead. No visible signs of progress were spotted.

I hate the quick trigger, but I honestly can't sit here and make a coherent argument against it.
So I'm ok with it.
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ifghog

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2019, 11:02:36 pm »

They got rid of Chad and went on to win national titles.

Chad isn't the first OC to build an unwarranted rep based on the exploits of a great player.  He won't be the last.

He will NEVER be an FBS head coach again.  It's doubtful that he will be an FBS coordinator again, although some group of 5 team in desperate need might take a flyer.
I agree about the head coach but you are very wrong about the OC. He will land a big power 5 oc job next year or the year after.
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bennyl08

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2019, 01:08:46 am »

Good post.

I have always had the general philosophy that you have to give a guy 4-5 years, and a BARE MINIMUM of three.
I still believe that, it's sound philosophy.

However, I can't fault Yuracek's decision. First, Morris is not Yuracek's hire, so this move is not surprising. Every AD wants their own people in place.

I do hate the bad precedent it sends, as it could encourage guys to cheat, cut corners, and do things the quick and dirty way instead of the honest and right way. If you know that you may be gone in less than two years...how fair is that?

However, I will readily admit that Morris had not shown anything in two years on the field. He had shown above average recruiting ability, for sure. Last year's recruiting class was very, very good. But he had not given Hog fans any spark of optimism that better days were ahead. No visible signs of progress were spotted.

I hate the quick trigger, but I honestly can't sit here and make a coherent argument against it.
So I'm ok with it.

Bielema inherited a way worse roster than Morris did. Even after he left, there were no rumors that he did anything dirty in regards to football. Only the alcoholism in his personal life. Yet, Bielema was able to get the team bowling in year 2.

We could hire 100 coaches and probably 95% percent of them would at least to get start year 3. You have to be in rare company to fired after just two seasons, and in Morris's case, before your 2nd season ends.

In another thread a while back, I went through all 14 SEC schools which culminated in ~1400 seasons of combined football. I found about 3 coaches in that entire span among the entire conference of coaches who had been fired for bad performance. Moreover, at best, there were no more than 5 coaches that maybe deserved to be fired after the 2nd season.

Morris went from defeating an FCS school by 30 something points to barely beating them by one td. We throttled Tulsa near the end of the season but were throttled by WKU near the end of this season. Aggie game was in the grand scheme similar. OM game we did worse. Most the others were all such blowouts that it's hard to even compare say a 47 point loss to a 38 point loss or something. With the LSU game coming up, hard for me to predict we do anything close to keeping that game within 7 points this year. All signs point to the 2018 team whooping the 2019's team butt up and down the field. Heck, the 2017 team would beat this team by nearly 50 most likely.

2-10 is the worst season in the history of hog football. Objectively speaking. Lowest win percentage of all time. Morris basically did a "hold my beer" to his first season to somehow make year 2 even worse.

No coach is going expect that they will be as historically bad as Morris was. And I'd hope that any coach that sets records for terribleness and is hammer down in reverse as a team would want to be fired.

Tejano Jawg

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2019, 01:29:34 am »

The Orgeron-Morris situations are interesting contrasts.

Coach O showed up at LSU and, as it turns out, is just what they needed. In our case, we needed a new head coach, AND a witch doctor, AND a miracle worker, AND an executive chef, AND a TV repairman.

It's easier to look at the other side, more similar to the Coach O side. Great example—I present Gene Chizik. Before he got hired at Auburn he was 5-19 at Iowa State (that ratio kinda looks familiar) and 0-8 in his last season in the Big 12. His first year at AU he went 8-5...second year, when they were the high bidder on Cam Newton, he was 12-0 and the National Champion. It wasn't long before he came back to earth.

We are very different than most other programs. You fall into an abundance of talent, some good things can happen.
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Augustus

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Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2019, 01:39:07 am »

I think Ed Orgeron is the prototypical figurehead.  He has a FANTASTIC staff (OC/DC) and TREMENDOUS athletes.  Those all make HCs look better than they are!  It will be interesting to see what happens to LSU in the future after the OC and DC leave for HC positions.

The Burrow transfer in 2018, put it all together with (like you said) other tremendous athletes at the skill positions...

After Burrow is gone, LSU will not look as good as they do this year.

To say nothing of the fact that LSU has always been able to recruit better than Hogs ever could.
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WBChogfan

Re: This is all you need to know about Morris...
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2019, 09:30:04 am »

With LSU, the natural advantages allow a great recruiter to be very successful.

And I don't mean just the players. The program is top-tier, and the local recruiting ground is very fertile, to be sure. That helps with players tremendously. But that also means you're going prospective coordinators and position coaches who want to be highly compensated and positioned either to take the jump to the next level, if they want to be head coaches, or to grow in their positions, if they are content  to be assistants. A coach that has the charisma to recruit players likely (but not always) has a pretty good shot a being persuasive for hiring the best assistants.

And if you leave LSU in a few years, you have likely made some really good recruiting connections for yourself that you can use in your next job. Plus the "SEC experience" on your resume doesn't hurt at all.

You can't just go on auto-pilot at a place like LSU, but it's one of the easiest places to attract top-level talent in coaching staff and in players. It's the kind of place that can make average coaches look good, good coaches look great, and great coaches look legendary.

If you keep your nose to the grindstone and don't get complacent, you can eventually find a world-class athlete or two, and they can put you in a position to compete for national championships. That same athlete at a place like Arkansas would probably make a major impact, but there's a world of difference in potential for success being surrounded mostly by 3 star athletes vs mostly by 4-5 star athletes.

And that's why you'd need to be miracle worker or cheater at Ole Miss or Arkansas to be as successful as you can be at LSU by being just a really good coach.
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