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Author Topic: One reality check from last night.  (Read 4781 times)

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k.c.hawg

One reality check from last night.
« on: November 06, 2019, 05:59:13 am »

Seeing us on the floor without Chaney gave us a sneak peek of what foul trouble to one guy can do to us. We had a 6'6" (5) along with 4 guards much of the time. Cylla needs to get it going good enough to be on the court for more minutes. Henderson's has a body closer to a 3 than a 4. Loved what I saw from the Hogs but in a night where you have 4 bluebloods squaring off with big frontlines that was definitely sobering.
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Smithian

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 06:02:59 am »

Hogs are small. That is why Gabe O getting himself kicked off the team was a bigger blow than most want to admit.

Jalen Harris got matched up with post players a few times and did an admirable job denying entry pass. Do that against Kentucky more than a couple times and they'll slam it on him.
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Kevin

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 06:10:54 am »

Team has flaws. But they play hard and disciplined

A Hogwork Orange

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 06:29:29 am »

I am excited about the team but I am keeping expectations pretty low because of this exact thing.

theFlyingHog

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 07:07:53 am »

Iím mostly worried about the nights the 3 wonít fall.

Hogmatic

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 07:20:21 am »

It was Rice but we would play down to the competition in the past.
We played very good defense and REBOUNDED without a big 4 or a 5. 
We did this without Chaney.
We did this after getting bad news about Chaney and Connor.
We started with some turnovers but got the nerves under control and improved as the game went along.

farmhawg

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 07:29:44 am »

Lack of bigs and turnovers. They really havenít corrected the turnover issues but I am sure he will.
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BRHogfan

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 07:42:53 am »

It was Rice but we would play down to the competition in the past.
We played very good defense and REBOUNDED without a big 4 or a 5. 
We did this without Chaney.
We did this after getting bad news about Chaney and Connor.
We started with some turnovers but got the nerves under control and improved as the game went along.

45 rebounds is insane.  We had 46 in a couple games last season, but doing that without a true big is wild. 

Hogmatic

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 08:05:53 am »

45 rebounds is insane.  We had 46 in a couple games last season, but doing that without a true big is wild.

We will look bad against some BIG teams so we just need to recognize that and be fair.  We played very good defense and REBOUNDED without a big 4 or a 5.   We did this without Chaney.   I was impressed to see how we boxed out on rebounds despite how small we are.  This gives us some games to play Ethan Henderson more minutes and develop him.  A blessing in disguise.

I donít remember the last time I saw us play halfcourt defense like an ACC team.   Everyone is focused on Mason and Isaiah but other players showed me something.  Jalen Harris played like a different guy and shot the 3 very well.  This game could give Jalen confidence that he has not had since heís been here.  Iím happy to see him thrive.   Adrio Bailey surprised me by playing so well and under control, but he also looked comfortable.   

Desi Sills looked real good to me because he was a glue guy and quietly produced.  Jimmy Whitt is just like Desi in that they both will be Glue guys to tie us together.   There will be nights when Desi and Jimmy blow up but they know how to be the glue.   As the season goes along, Desi and Jimmy are going to show their value.  It really is sad that we donít have a real BIG to go along with all of these guys.

East TN HAWG

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 08:13:07 am »

Just think if we would have gotten Kerry Blackshears.  We could have been a top 10 team. 

Muss could not fill all the holes, but the void of coaching has been filled.   I am and always be a CMA fan, but even I can see the difference already.   

Hogmatic

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 08:13:45 am »

Just think if we would have gotten Kerry Blackshears.  We could have been a top 10 team. 

Muss could not fill all the holes, but the void of coaching has been filled.   I am and always be a CMA fan, but even I can see the difference already.   

Yep it is dramatic.
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lstewart

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 08:14:44 am »

Last night was fun.... seems more like old times in The Bud. We will have some exciting games at home this year, but I expect to absorb some 20 point plus losses on the road. Too small, and not much depth. We are going to get pounded inside some nights. Just enjoy it for what it is this year, and look forward to better days with a full roster in the future.

redleg

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 08:28:33 am »

The reality is, this is a newer version of the "Runts" from the 1992-93 season. This team will struggle with rebounding, shot blocking/altering, and post play in the paint. That's what happens when your tallest guys are 6'8", and you play in the SEC. Teams with accomplished centers and power forwards are going to hurt this Hogs team, i.e. Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Western Kentucky, and LSU. The good things about this team are, they are fast, shoot from range very well, clutter the passing lanes, and play great in-your-face defense.

I am not expecting this team to win more than 18 games in the regular season. It's Musselman's first season, there are no big men, and there are four or five SEC teams that will hurt Arkansas, some of them twice.
17-14 or 18-13 regular season sounds about right for this team, pick up a W in the SEC Tourney, then head to the NIT or CBI.

If Musselman can sign a great 2020 recruiting class (Davis, Moody, Williams, Robinson, Moore, Walker), the 2020-21 season will be one for the ages for the Hoop Hogs and the fans!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 08:50:46 am by redleg »
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joeyself

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 08:39:47 am »

45 rebounds is insane.  We had 46 in a couple games last season, but doing that without a true big is wild. 

Desire and effort are big factors in getting a rebound.   I saw it last night. 

Of course, it helps when the other team is missing a lot of shots--which could be attributed to the defense on the ball.  But 28.5% overall and 4% from the three SHOULD yield a lot of rebounds! :)

JcS
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Hawg Red

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 08:51:47 am »

45 rebounds is insane.  We had 46 in a couple games last season, but doing that without a true big is wild.

Trying not to react to a one-game sample, but we only had 45 or more rebounds 14 total times under Mike Anderson in 8 seasons. Obviously I want to draw a conclusion here because I'm excited, but I know I can. I just can't. Y'all don't let me, please.

Smithian

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 08:55:12 am »

Trying not to react to a one-game sample, but we only had 45 or more rebounds 14 total times under Mike Anderson in 8 seasons. Obviously I want to draw a conclusion here because I'm excited, but I know I can. I just can't. Y'all don't let me, please.
Rice lost to a D2 school a week ago.

Hawg Red

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 08:56:43 am »

Rice lost to a D2 school a week ago.

And I'm sure we played plenty of similarly-bad schools the previous 8 years.

There I go, trying to draw that conclusion again...
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yocdaddy

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2019, 09:26:19 am »

While I do believe our size will be a problem in some games, playing 4 guards creates as many matchup issues for the other team. The game has changed, there simply isn't many back to the basket bigs in today's game. The size will be an issue against teams who rebound well and create off the bounce. Space and pace are a great equalizer.

When teams play us man, Whitt, Sills, and Harris will be able to get to the rim in space. I was excited about what I saw last night. We won't win the league by any means, but top 6 or 7 in the league and 18-20 wins is possible.

 

RedSkiesAtNightHog

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2019, 10:08:34 am »

While I do believe our size will be a problem in some games, playing 4 guards creates as many matchup issues for the other team. The game has changed, there simply isn't many back to the basket bigs in today's game. The size will be an issue against teams who rebound well and create off the bounce. Space and pace are a great equalizer.

When teams play us man, Whitt, Sills, and Harris will be able to get to the rim in space. I was excited about what I saw last night. We won't win the league by any means, but top 6 or 7 in the league and 18-20 wins is possible.

 

Very valid points about how the game of basketball has changed.  We won't win the league, but there will be some nights where we surprise some people.  The three ball enhances this probability with the make up of our team. 

Over 17,000 on a Tuesday night?  Wow!  Big crowds will also help the Hogs pull some upsets! 
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BRHogfan

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2019, 10:54:37 am »

Desire and effort are big factors in getting a rebound.   I saw it last night. 

Of course, it helps when the other team is missing a lot of shots--which could be attributed to the defense on the ball.  But 28.5% overall and 4% from the three SHOULD yield a lot of rebounds! :)

JcS

Our rebound rate was actually very good.  That's a measure of how many rebounds did you get out of the rebounds available.  Last season our total rebound% was 46.9% and this game was 62.5%.  For reference our highest rebound% in 2018-2019 was 57.4% against Texas Tech and we only had 27 rebounds and lost that game.  Texas Tech for reference was also not a good rebounding team.  They hovered around 50% rebound rate the whole season. 
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hawginbigd1

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2019, 11:17:13 am »

It's one game against a horrible team is the initial perception. Will definitely need to see more games to make any valuable judgements about both teams, except finding out that Rice lost an exhibition to a D2 team seems to lend to they aren't really good. I like the effort and intensity of the players and the coaches, defense and rebounding was really good. 50+ from Zay and Mason  not really surprising (Mason's body is surprising). Adrio looked really good in most phases, I have not been an Adrio fan, but he seems to have played more to his capabilities, and definitely had some fire. Desi seems to be continuing his arc from the end of the season. Jalen hitting open shots could be huge.  The reality check for me is I didn't see a whole lot of spark from our 2 new pieces, it seems our returning players show some level of improvement, but the new guys didn't do a whole lot for me. It seems we didn't replace the value of what we lost, our hope for improvement seems to be tied to our returning players and the coaching.
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DenaoStyle

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2019, 12:05:30 pm »

It's one game against a horrible team is the initial perception. Will definitely need to see more games to make any valuable judgements about both teams, except finding out that Rice lost an exhibition to a D2 team seems to lend to they aren't really good. I like the effort and intensity of the players and the coaches, defense and rebounding was really good. 50+ from Zay and Mason  not really surprising (Mason's body is surprising). Adrio looked really good in most phases, I have not been an Adrio fan, but he seems to have played more to his capabilities, and definitely had some fire. Desi seems to be continuing his arc from the end of the season. Jalen hitting open shots could be huge.  The reality check for me is I didn't see a whole lot of spark from our 2 new pieces, it seems our returning players show some level of improvement, but the new guys didn't do a whole lot for me. It seems we didn't replace the value of what we lost, our hope for improvement seems to be tied to our returning players and the coaching.

I thought Whitt played well.

Cylla, on the other hand, was far from impressive.
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The_Iceman

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2019, 12:08:17 pm »

I thought Whitt played well.

Cylla, on the other hand, was far from impressive.

Cylla is what he is. Hes gonna give you about 6-8 points and 5-7 boards a game. He will provide toughness and solid defense. Not much more than that though.

Smithian

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2019, 12:54:30 pm »

Cylla is what he is. Hes gonna give you about 6-8 points and 5-7 boards a game. He will provide toughness and solid defense. Not much more than that though.
He is a really good supporting piece, but he isn't a go to player at either end. He'll help the team win a lot of games, but the weight needs to be carried by Joe and Jones.
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dayofthehawg1

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2019, 01:30:15 pm »

We will be much improved next year.   The team will only improve.  Let's enjoy this ride. It's a welcome change from what we are having to deal with in football.
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Hogmatic

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2019, 01:38:36 pm »

Cylla is what he is. Hes gonna give you about 6-8 points and 5-7 boards a game. He will provide toughness and solid defense. Not much more than that though.

Cylla deserves a few more games before we can analyze his play.  He didn't look comfortable.
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navyhog24

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2019, 01:42:23 pm »

Plus, when we get Chaney back, we'll have more of an inside presence. The passing and motion will be better with him in the game as well.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2019, 01:45:37 pm »

It's probably been mentioned, but Harris' shot improvement we've seen in the exhibition and Rice games.  Obvious he has put work in.  3-4 in these games from 3.
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hobhog

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2019, 04:34:01 pm »

Sounds like coach actually scouted Rice, which is nice. He seems to be a very detailed and energetic guy.
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hawginbigd1

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2019, 04:37:40 pm »

Sounds like coach actually scouted Rice, which is nice. He seems to be a very detailed and energetic guy.
Don't mention enregtic and an Arkansas coach it makes me think of Red bull, and .....well I am shell shocked by that description and a coach currently :(
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Boarcephus

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2019, 04:45:52 pm »


Of course, it helps when the other team is missing a lot of shots--which could be attributed to the defense on the ball.  But 28.5% overall and 4% from the three SHOULD yield a lot of rebounds! :)

This is not the first time teams have shot a horrible percent from the field against us but it is one of the few times we've gotten more than our share of rebounds on their misses.  I'm used to seeing them miss, grab the rebound and put it back up, miss put it back up and eventually score on us. 
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joeyself

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2019, 04:58:15 pm »

This is not the first time teams have shot a horrible percent from the field against us but it is one of the few times we've gotten more than our share of rebounds on their misses.  I'm used to seeing them miss, grab the rebound and put it back up, miss put it back up and eventually score on us. 

Well, it's the first time in the Muss era! :)

There have been some teams over the year that I feared seeing the other team shoot free throws because the odds were pretty good that any miss was going to be put back in as a two-pointer.

JcS
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OkieBack

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2019, 04:59:40 pm »

So I take it our 7 footer didn't get sanctioned by the NCAA Transfer Committee?
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Boarcephus

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2019, 05:24:03 pm »

Well, it's the first time in the Muss era! :)

There have been some teams over the year that I feared seeing the other team shoot free throws because the odds were pretty good that any miss was going to be put back in as a two-pointer.

JcS

I remember hoping when opposing teams would have a two shot foul they'd miss the first and make the second because we had a nasty habit of letting them turn a two FT into a three point play.

GuvHog

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2019, 05:45:32 pm »

It's one game against a horrible team is the initial perception. Will definitely need to see more games to make any valuable judgements about both teams, except finding out that Rice lost an exhibition to a D2 team seems to lend to they aren't really good. I like the effort and intensity of the players and the coaches, defense and rebounding was really good. 50+ from Zay and Mason  not really surprising (Mason's body is surprising). Adrio looked really good in most phases, I have not been an Adrio fan, but he seems to have played more to his capabilities, and definitely had some fire. Desi seems to be continuing his arc from the end of the season. Jalen hitting open shots could be huge.  The reality check for me is I didn't see a whole lot of spark from our 2 new pieces, it seems our returning players show some level of improvement, but the new guys didn't do a whole lot for me. It seems we didn't replace the value of what we lost, our hope for improvement seems to be tied to our returning players and the coaching.

Yeah, Rice is indeed a bad team. The thing I took away from that game though is the Hogs did exactly......what they were supposed to do. They ran a lesser team off of the floor. It's been a while since a Hog team has done that. This team is in the process of working the kinks out and solidifying. They'll soon get Chaney back and that will help even more. Come time for the first SEC game, this team will be much better and more polished than they are now.

Hog are ya

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2019, 01:53:14 am »

The reality is, this is a newer version of the "Runts" from the 1992-93 season. This team will struggle with rebounding, shot blocking/altering, and post play in the paint. That's what happens when your tallest guys are 6'8", and you play in the SEC. Teams with accomplished centers and power forwards are going to hurt this Hogs team, i.e. Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Western Kentucky, and LSU. The good things about this team are, they are fast, shoot from range very well, clutter the passing lanes, and play great in-your-face defense.

I am not expecting this team to win more than 18 games in the regular season. It's Musselman's first season, there are no big men, and there are four or five SEC teams that will hurt Arkansas, some of them twice.
17-14 or 18-13 regular season sounds about right for this team, pick up a W in the SEC Tourney, then head to the NIT or CBI.

If Musselman can sign a great 2020 recruiting class (Davis, Moody, Williams, Robinson, Moore, Walker), the 2020-21 season will be one for the ages for the Hoop Hogs and the fans!


Nice post!  One question though.  Were the "Runts" 92/93?  You're prolly right and they were, but I was thinking it was the 95/96 season, when we made the sweet 16. 
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joeyself

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2019, 08:59:28 am »

I remember hoping when opposing teams would have a two shot foul they'd miss the first and make the second because we had a nasty habit of letting them turn a two FT into a three point play.

Yep, I had the same thought.  Now, I know I have no stats to back it up, but I just remember seeing WAY too many instances where the team shooting the free throw got their miss.

JcS
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FineAsSwine

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2019, 09:29:40 am »

Nice post!  One question though.  Were the "Runts" 92/93?  You're prolly right and they were, but I was thinking it was the 95/96 season, when we made the sweet 16.

Yeah I remember Richardsonís Runts. Went to the Sweet Sixteen and then back to back NCAA championship games. Deja Vu?

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AugustaHog

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2019, 09:38:47 am »

Iím mostly worried about the nights the 3 wonít fall.
Yep, we're going to live and die by it.  When it's going in, we will beat a lot of teams that are ranked ahead of us.  When it's not, we will be a bit frustrated.  I did like that Joe has rounded his game out a bit more.  He looked much more comfortable going to the hole and hitting pull ups on folks.  That's going to help keep people more honest. 

FineAsSwine

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2019, 09:40:19 am »

Rice lost to a D2 school a week ago.

No wonder we fried Rice. We will only have a couple of challenges in the non conference so this easy schedule should give us plenty of time to get everybody ready for a tough conference run.
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davril98

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2019, 10:17:15 am »

Probably can't get you all the way but a couple of really good guards can take you a long way in college.
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checkraiser88

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 11:42:29 pm »

Cylla is better then he looked in game 1. He can stretch the floor
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Utah

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2019, 12:21:22 pm »

Our rebound rate was actually very good.  That's a measure of how many rebounds did you get out of the rebounds available.  Last season our total rebound% was 46.9% and this game was 62.5%.  For reference our highest rebound% in 2018-2019 was 57.4% against Texas Tech and we only had 27 rebounds and lost that game.  Texas Tech for reference was also not a good rebounding team.  They hovered around 50% rebound rate the whole season.
Another thing we all must remember on the rebounds is that Rice was sending 0 guys to the offensive glass much of the night. Its pretty easy to rebound against air!

So many positives from the first game though!

JIHawg

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2019, 02:15:13 pm »

Hard to imagine a team with Oliver Miller on it being called the runts.
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GoshenHog

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2019, 03:22:35 pm »

Hard to imagine a team with Oliver Miller on it being called the runts.

The team had Scotty, Corliss, Darrell Hawkins, Beck, Crawford, McDaniel, etc.  Miller, Day, and Mayberry were gone and we were a season away from getting Darnell and Lee Wilson.  Seems like we beat Holy Cross and St. John's to get into the S16 but my memory is hazy.  Lost a competitive game to eventual champs UNC with Montross and shooter Donald Williams in the S16.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2019, 05:18:27 pm »

Hard to imagine a team with Oliver Miller on it being called the runts.
Wasnít this the year after Miller, Day and Mayberry?  And the year before Wilson and Robinson. 
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jgphillips3

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2019, 07:04:34 pm »

We beat the crap out of a bad team and looked really well coached and individual players are showing skill improvements.  Sure we are small and will lose to really good teams...who cares?  I'm proud of what I saw out of our team.  There's a lot we can build on for this year and the coming years.  If Muss can pull the fab 5 or equivalently good talent, we will be a top 25 competitive team more often than not and after 20 years in the wilderness, I'll take that.

Pancetta

Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2019, 03:27:57 pm »

One thing about shooting a lot of 3s, you tend to get a lot of long rebounds so maybe they will keep rebounding closer than it would normally be with a small team. 
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sigpooie

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2019, 07:31:02 pm »

Rice beat penn and penn beat bama. And its not who we beat its how we beat them. And i thought the runts were hureys team?
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: One reality check from last night.
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2019, 09:52:01 pm »

Itís not ideal but Dayton played a couple seasons ago with no one over 6í6Ē.  They had two 6í9Ē centers get dismissed during the season for shoplifting or something like that.
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