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Author Topic: Lets examine the talent  (Read 1602 times)

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hogsanity

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Lets examine the talent
« on: October 16, 2019, 11:02:07 am »

Many here claim this team is talented enough to have ( insert personal opinion here ), and especially talented enough that they should not ever lose to SJSU or to a team using a wr at Qb. But it is really that talented?

Offense

WR - without question the position with the most raw talent and the highest recruiting rankings. But, it is mostly young and is dependent on the Qb's which leads me to

QB - it seems the choices are a qb with command of the offense, but lacking the arm to utilize much of the talent of these receivers. Does not have the arm strength for many deep out type thrown or throws deep across the middle, and is not a deep threat on go routes. OR a qb with a big arm, but seemingly very inaccurate and makes poor decisions. When he is on he can make good use of the talents of the your receivers, but as we saw last week, he was contantly late and either behind or high on several really good routes by those young receivers

TE - O'grady has become the most dependable weapon, simply because he is a matchup nightmare when the D tries to cover him with a LB or safety.

RB - Boyd is good but beat up. Whaley has never bloomed into what many though he would.

OL - Do I really have to get into this group? They just are not playing very well.

Defense - I would argue, on raw talent and recruiting rankings, the DL is the most talented in those regards. Definitely not horrible, but not game changers either. Imo, a good solid group

LB - Young, no depth and slow ( when compared to ther SEc teams ) often seem to get out of position by trying to anticipate to make up for the lack of speed. Harris is a very good player, pretty sure tackler, but even he kept making wrong reads last week and got caught in the wash on several runs by the KY Qb.

DB - In a long tradition of Hog db's, they can not run with a receiver AND look for the ball. And they could not stop a slant if their life depended on it.

K - Limpert is very very good

Coaching - the coaches seem to be in over their heads, but it has to be hard to game plan when you are limited at QB and the OL. Chavis, on D, is known for pressure, but when your DL cant get any, and your db's are not great in man, it is hard to dial up pressure very often.

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2019, 11:07:21 am »

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Breems

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2019, 11:09:05 am »

hogsanity: to try the same thread over and over and expect a different result.

Oliver

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2019, 11:09:06 am »

Can we give hogsanity his own board?  Just name it "the contrarian" board or "we'll never recruit talent to Arkansas" board. 

hawg IQ

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2019, 11:17:59 am »

Many here claim this team is talented enough to have ( insert personal opinion here ), and especially talented enough that they should not ever lose to SJSU or to a team using a wr at Qb. But it is really that talented?

Offense

WR - without question the position with the most raw talent and the highest recruiting rankings. But, it is mostly young and is dependent on the Qb's which leads me to

QB - it seems the choices are a qb with command of the offense, but lacking the arm to utilize much of the talent of these receivers. Does not have the arm strength for many deep out type thrown or throws deep across the middle, and is not a deep threat on go routes. OR a qb with a big arm, but seemingly very inaccurate and makes poor decisions. When he is on he can make good use of the talents of the your receivers, but as we saw last week, he was contantly late and either behind or high on several really good routes by those young receivers

TE - O'grady has become the most dependable weapon, simply because he is a matchup nightmare when the D tries to cover him with a LB or safety.

RB - Boyd is good but beat up. Whaley has never bloomed into what many though he would.

OL - Do I really have to get into this group? They just are not playing very well.

Defense - I would argue, on raw talent and recruiting rankings, the DL is the most talented in those regards. Definitely not horrible, but not game changers either. Imo, a good solid group

LB - Young, no depth and slow ( when compared to ther SEc teams ) often seem to get out of position by trying to anticipate to make up for the lack of speed. Harris is a very good player, pretty sure tackler, but even he kept making wrong reads last week and got caught in the wash on several runs by the KY Qb.

DB - In a long tradition of Hog db's, they can not run with a receiver AND look for the ball. And they could not stop a slant if their life depended on it.

K - Limpert is very very good

Coaching - the coaches seem to be in over their heads, but it has to be hard to game plan when you are limited at QB and the OL. Chavis, on D, is known for pressure, but when your DL cant get any, and your db's are not great in man, it is hard to dial up pressure very often.

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.
your post is fairly accurate. The coaches are completely inept. I think rebuilding program is a slow task.  As you point out certain strengths and certain weakness with our team, you cannot afford inept coaching, which at present we have. I would think with better coaching we would go 4-8, 5-7 or possibly 6-6 this year. Recruiting would  therefore improve, maybe get better offensive linemen and fill some gaps on defense through younger players maturing or picking up better players through the portal or juco. Talent is here for program growth, but no talent with Morris or staff at all.

hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2019, 11:26:08 am »

your post is fairly accurate. The coaches are completely inept. I think rebuilding program is a slow task.  As you point out certain strengths and certain weakness with our team, you cannot afford inept coaching, which at present we have. I would think with better coaching we would go 4-8, 5-7 or possibly 6-6 this year. Recruiting would  therefore improve, maybe get better offensive linemen and fill some gaps on defense through younger players maturing or picking up better players through the portal or juco. Talent is here for program growth, but no talent with Morris or staff at all.

I predicted 6-6, I thought the line play would be better, and I thought Starkel would be better than he has been.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2019, 11:33:00 am »

Dustin Fry needs to carry more blame. If the OL can play even slightly average, the entire offense is better

hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2019, 11:35:04 am »

Dustin Fry needs to carry more blame. If the OL can play even slightly average, the entire offense is better

The thing there is your assumption that they can play better. With the injuries they had, it is very possible they are playing as best as this particular group can
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davehog

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2019, 11:36:04 am »

There is adequate talent for this team to be 4-2 at this point.  If we were at 5 or 6 wins, you'd have to reasonably say that the results exceeded the talent quotient due to coaching. 

Below 4 wins, well......

hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2019, 11:49:22 am »

There is adequate talent for this team to be 4-2 at this point.  If we were at 5 or 6 wins, you'd have to reasonably say that the results exceeded the talent quotient due to coaching. 

Below 4 wins, well......


Having the talent to be 4-2 does not mean you will be 4-2 though. Things happen. Do you think Ga has more talent than SC? I do, lots more, yet SC beat GA last weekend. Does Tn have more talent than BYU? Memphis ( everyone here loves Norvell ) more talent than Temple? Yet Byu beat Tn and Temple beat Memphis.
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al_pigcino

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2019, 11:52:07 am »

Having the talent to be 4-2 does not mean you will be 4-2 though. Things happen. Do you think Ga has more talent than SC? I do, lots more, yet SC beat GA last weekend. Does Tn have more talent than BYU? Memphis ( everyone here loves Norvell ) more talent than Temple? Yet Byu beat Tn and Temple beat Memphis.
I think the gap between USCe and UGA is not as far as people believe.  Let's not forget that they see each other every year.  Close proximity in division teams beating you are way different than a lower tier conference team coming to your house and beating you.
I'm not sure Memphis has more talent than Temple. 

I_Called_That_Play_Brotha

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2019, 11:52:22 am »

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.

But the MOST important lack of talent exists off the field, wearing headsets, and makes everything else -- substantially -- worse.

There is no explanation involving the word "talent" that can justify the ongoing failure(s) of CCM.

thebignasty

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2019, 11:55:52 am »

This team is talented enough to be 6-0.  Played their best game against the best team they have played so far on A&M, and had a chance to win it late.

I think 4-2 with losses to Ole Miss and A&M is the bar for a competent job managing this team this year.  3-3 is probably good enough that the fire Chad talk hasn't really begun in earnest yet.

The margins are slim, but we are where we are.

Hawginj

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2019, 11:58:23 am »

This team is talented enough to be 6-0.  Played their best game against the best team they have played so far on A&M, and had a chance to win it late.

I think 4-2 with losses to Ole Miss and A&M is the bar for a competent job managing this team this year.  3-3 is probably good enough that the fire Chad talk hasn't really begun in earnest yet.

The margins are slim, but we are where we are.
Yes,Yes and Yes!
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2019, 11:58:55 am »

we can lack talent all we want... but still no excuse for our best players to at least not have the ball in their hands more. That should be the easiest thing a coach can do. And I myself still think we dont have enough talent. But we should have a better record.

Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2019, 12:00:03 pm »

I think it's really hard to accurately know the talent when the coaching is so bad.

SeldomHere

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2019, 12:02:39 pm »

The only thing missing in that essay:
From the Bench
and
buy my books.

One word:  OUTCOACHED
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davehog

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2019, 12:06:05 pm »

Having the talent to be 4-2 does not mean you will be 4-2 though. Things happen. Do you think Ga has more talent than SC? I do, lots more, yet SC beat GA last weekend. Does Tn have more talent than BYU? Memphis ( everyone here loves Norvell ) more talent than Temple? Yet Byu beat Tn and Temple beat Memphis.

Well the point is that when there is a delta between the talent quotient and expected outcome, it's almost always attributable to coaching. 

So, in the SC vs. UGA equation as an example:

SC talent quotient = 6.0 + coaching 4.0 overall score = 10
UGA talent quotient = 9.0 + coaching = 0.5 = overall score = 9.5

It was a close game, went to OT so the combined talent and coaching number was probably pretty close. 

As is the case for most teams not Bama, LSU, UGA there will always be a talent quotient disparity.  That's why it's so imperative that the Razorbacks have a plus coaching ability individual. 

In 1.5 seasons so far I've not seen that with CM. The only coaching attribute that I'll say that is plus at this point is recruiting but I'm fearful that will quickly take a downturn given on field performance and how easily it will be for other programs to recruit against Arkansas with a head coach that is basically a lame duck. 



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007 License To Squeal

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2019, 12:10:46 pm »

Many here claim this team is talented enough to have ( insert personal opinion here ), and especially talented enough that they should not ever lose to SJSU or to a team using a wr at Qb. But it is really that talented?

Offense

WR - without question the position with the most raw talent and the highest recruiting rankings. But, it is mostly young and is dependent on the Qb's which leads me to

QB - it seems the choices are a qb with command of the offense, but lacking the arm to utilize much of the talent of these receivers. Does not have the arm strength for many deep out type thrown or throws deep across the middle, and is not a deep threat on go routes. OR a qb with a big arm, but seemingly very inaccurate and makes poor decisions. When he is on he can make good use of the talents of the your receivers, but as we saw last week, he was contantly late and either behind or high on several really good routes by those young receivers

TE - O'grady has become the most dependable weapon, simply because he is a matchup nightmare when the D tries to cover him with a LB or safety.

RB - Boyd is good but beat up. Whaley has never bloomed into what many though he would.

OL - Do I really have to get into this group? They just are not playing very well.

Defense - I would argue, on raw talent and recruiting rankings, the DL is the most talented in those regards. Definitely not horrible, but not game changers either. Imo, a good solid group

LB - Young, no depth and slow ( when compared to ther SEc teams ) often seem to get out of position by trying to anticipate to make up for the lack of speed. Harris is a very good player, pretty sure tackler, but even he kept making wrong reads last week and got caught in the wash on several runs by the KY Qb.

DB - In a long tradition of Hog db's, they can not run with a receiver AND look for the ball. And they could not stop a slant if their life depended on it.

K - Limpert is very very good

Coaching - the coaches seem to be in over their heads, but it has to be hard to game plan when you are limited at QB and the OL. Chavis, on D, is known for pressure, but when your DL cant get any, and your db's are not great in man, it is hard to dial up pressure very often.

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.

A competent coach can use the talent of the players he has to win game like SJS, Kentucky.....Morris is way over his head......his strong card as a good recruiter has been played....and is trumped by his ineptness.....Quality recruits won't come to play for a loser.

thebignasty

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2019, 12:11:28 pm »

Well the point is that when there is a delta between the talent quotient and expected outcome, it's almost always attributable to coaching. 

So, in the SC vs. UGA equation as an example:

SC talent quotient = 6.0 + coaching 4.0 overall score = 10
UGA talent quotient = 9.0 + coaching = 0.5 = overall score = 9.5

It was a close game, went to OT so the combined talent and coaching number was probably pretty close. 

As is the case for most teams not Bama, LSU, UGA there will always be a talent quotient disparity.  That's why it's so imperative that the Razorbacks have a plus coaching ability individual. 

In 1.5 seasons so far I've not seen that with CM. The only coaching attribute that I'll say that is plus at this point is recruiting but I'm fearful that will quickly take a downturn given on field performance and how easily it will be for other programs to recruit against Arkansas with a head coach that is basically a lame duck.
I do not think Muschamp is 8x the coach Kirby is, lol.

PharmacistHog

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2019, 12:20:06 pm »

I predicted 6-6, I thought the line play would be better, and I thought Starkel would be better than he has been.

We just lost our highly rated OL recruit and there doesn't seem to be more on the horizon to look forward to getting.  If we whiff on OL and LB's what in the hell could we possibly expect from Morris next year?  His biggest selling point has been recruiting.  That seems to be going downhill now as the losses pile up and we are hearing whispers of the young defensive talent entering the portal.  I just don't see how Morris can be retained if those things come to fruition. 

davehog

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2019, 12:20:45 pm »

I do not think Muschamp is 8x the coach Kirby is, lol.

Well at least last Saturday he was... and most UGA fans would agree with this statement. 
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31to6

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2019, 12:46:50 pm »

hogsanity: to try the same thread over and over and expect a different result.
Bwahahahahahah!

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Redhogs

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2019, 01:15:24 pm »

Many here claim this team is talented enough to have ( insert personal opinion here ), and especially talented enough that they should not ever lose to SJSU or to a team using a wr at Qb. But it is really that talented?

Offense

WR - without question the position with the most raw talent and the highest recruiting rankings. But, it is mostly young and is dependent on the Qb's which leads me to

QB - it seems the choices are a qb with command of the offense, but lacking the arm to utilize much of the talent of these receivers. Does not have the arm strength for many deep out type thrown or throws deep across the middle, and is not a deep threat on go routes. OR a qb with a big arm, but seemingly very inaccurate and makes poor decisions. When he is on he can make good use of the talents of the your receivers, but as we saw last week, he was contantly late and either behind or high on several really good routes by those young receivers

TE - O'grady has become the most dependable weapon, simply because he is a matchup nightmare when the D tries to cover him with a LB or safety.

RB - Boyd is good but beat up. Whaley has never bloomed into what many though he would.

OL - Do I really have to get into this group? They just are not playing very well.

Defense - I would argue, on raw talent and recruiting rankings, the DL is the most talented in those regards. Definitely not horrible, but not game changers either. Imo, a good solid group

LB - Young, no depth and slow ( when compared to ther SEc teams ) often seem to get out of position by trying to anticipate to make up for the lack of speed. Harris is a very good player, pretty sure tackler, but even he kept making wrong reads last week and got caught in the wash on several runs by the KY Qb.

DB - In a long tradition of Hog db's, they can not run with a receiver AND look for the ball. And they could not stop a slant if their life depended on it.

K - Limpert is very very good

Coaching - the coaches seem to be in over their heads, but it has to be hard to game plan when you are limited at QB and the OL. Chavis, on D, is known for pressure, but when your DL cant get any, and your db's are not great in man, it is hard to dial up pressure very often.

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.
Just stop!!!
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Keith_Dixon

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2019, 01:18:44 pm »

Everybody has an opinion.  I disagree with yours because it's not based on reality and what I've seen with my own eyes.  Not all of it, but anyway.  No point to this topic, since all of us have our very own set of eyes and the ability to think for ourselves. 
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Hogwild

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2019, 01:35:17 pm »

This team was picked dead last in the SEC by everyone in the media. Why, because we have the least talented team of any SEC team on our schedule. 

Now just because our talent is near the bottom of the SEC, doesn't mean we should be struggling with Portland St. and losing to San Jose St. Heck we were even losing to Colorado State in the 2nd half, until their starting QB was injured. That's on the coaching staff.
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hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2019, 01:46:59 pm »

We just lost our highly rated OL recruit and there doesn't seem to be more on the horizon to look forward to getting.  If we whiff on OL and LB's what in the hell could we possibly expect from Morris next year?  His biggest selling point has been recruiting.  That seems to be going downhill now as the losses pile up and we are hearing whispers of the young defensive talent entering the portal.  I just don't see how Morris can be retained if those things come to fruition. 

Dont misunderstand my post, I said the coaches appear to be in over their heads, and I was never a guy who thought Morris was the answer. The entire premise of getting a coach because he coached a freak talent like Watson, and can supposedly recruit Texas was just stupid to start with. I just do not think it is all coaching. I still think they are very lacking in talent at key spots, which just makes the coaching issues worse.
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2019, 01:57:41 pm »

Dont misunderstand my post, I said the coaches appear to be in over their heads, and I was never a guy who thought Morris was the answer. The entire premise of getting a coach because he coached a freak talent like Watson, and can supposedly recruit Texas was just stupid to start with. I just do not think it is all coaching. I still think they are very lacking in talent at key spots, which just makes the coaching issues worse.

We are certainly in a bad way as far as depth.  I do think we have quality talent (for now-I doubt that lasts long now) in some places, but it appears recruiting is gonna take a hit and we aren't even addressing the most glaring problem-the Offensive Line.  Pair that with bad coaching and not firing his ass this year is just putting off the inevitable.  Next year the schedule is worse.  Defections will only add to it.  Ultimately, the coach is responsible for the available talent and recruiting has been the only thing this guy has been able to hang his hat on and now that appears to be flailing.  Its all on Morris now.  I tried to be cautiously optimistic with this guy and stayed in wait and see mode this year but he is just flat out not getting it done.  There is NO excuse for our current record.  NONE. 

hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2019, 02:01:17 pm »

We are certainly in a bad way as far as depth.  I do think we have quality talent (for now-I doubt that lasts long now) in some places, but it appears recruiting is gonna take a hit and we aren't even addressing the most glaring problem-the Offensive Line.  Pair that with bad coaching and not firing his ass this year is just putting off the inevitable.  Next year the schedule is worse.  Defections will only add to it.  Ultimately, the coach is responsible for the available talent and recruiting has been the only thing this guy has been able to hang his hat on and now that appears to be flailing.  Its all on Morris now.  I tried to be cautiously optimistic with this guy and stayed in wait and see mode this year but he is just flat out not getting it done.  There is NO excuse for our current record.  NONE. 

If you really examine the 2 classes he has signed, they get almost all of their recruiting rankings value from 3 positions, wr/te/qb. To me, the most glaring thing, the most alarming thing, knowing how thin they were at LB, in 2 classes he signed FOUR total lb's, and one of those was Hy's son who transferred in. But hey, we have 4 dozen wr's.

PharmacistHog

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2019, 02:04:28 pm »

If you really examine the 2 classes he has signed, they get almost all of their recruiting rankings value from 3 positions, wr/te/qb. To me, the most glaring thing, the most alarming thing, knowing how thin they were at LB, in 2 classes he signed FOUR total lb's, and one of those was Hy's son who transferred in. But hey, we have 4 dozen wr's.

We are/were on some LB's this recruiting class, but I think they all move onward at this point.  We got a good rankings bump from DL and secondary as well, but they damn sure aren't getting any playing time.  I just don't understand it at all. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2019, 02:09:30 pm »

We are/were on some LB's this recruiting class, but I think they all move onward at this point.  We got a good rankings bump from DL and secondary as well, but they damn sure aren't getting any playing time.  I just don't understand it at all. 

The bottom line is at some point a coach has to come in and tell the brass " I am going to build the team like this. we are going to recruit only OL and back 7 defenders in the 1st class, and we are going to red shirt them all. My next class we are going to get dl and some skill position players, and red shirt them all. Then in year 3, when the ol has some seasoning, and the back 7 is solid, we can introduce the skill players and the dl, to go along with whatever upper classmen we have left. Class 3 and onward will be about filling needs every year, but will always have several linemen in them.

Problem is, the fans will have ABSOLUTELY NO PATIENCE for that type of long term slow build. Fans remind me of some of my clients, they open a new location at 9am and expect to have made a million $ in sales by 10.

PharmacistHog

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2019, 02:26:36 pm »

The bottom line is at some point a coach has to come in and tell the brass " I am going to build the team like this. we are going to recruit only OL and back 7 defenders in the 1st class, and we are going to red shirt them all. My next class we are going to get dl and some skill position players, and red shirt them all. Then in year 3, when the ol has some seasoning, and the back 7 is solid, we can introduce the skill players and the dl, to go along with whatever upper classmen we have left. Class 3 and onward will be about filling needs every year, but will always have several linemen in them.

Problem is, the fans will have ABSOLUTELY NO PATIENCE for that type of long term slow build. Fans remind me of some of my clients, they open a new location at 9am and expect to have made a million $ in sales by 10.

I think everybody would be somewhat more patient if we showed ANY signs of improvement.  We seem to be regressing. 
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liljo

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2019, 02:30:23 pm »

I think everybody would be somewhat more patient if we showed ANY signs of improvement.  We seem to be regressing.
Special teams look a hell of a lot better.

#1 STUNNA

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2019, 02:32:46 pm »

hard to see talent if you dont get them the ball enough...
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hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2019, 02:34:41 pm »

hard to see talent if you dont get them the ball enough...

And just who should be getting the ball more? Seems Arkansas always gets coaches that for some reason do not want to give the best players the ball ( according to the fans anyway ).
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2019, 02:38:22 pm »

And just who should be getting the ball more? Seems Arkansas always gets coaches that for some reason do not want to give the best players the ball ( according to the fans anyway ).
you don think Burks needs the ball more? Knox? Boyd during crucial downs?
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hogsanity

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2019, 02:57:02 pm »

you don think Burks needs the ball more? Knox? Boyd during crucial downs?

I seem to remember last week Burks for sure, and I think Knox both had at least 2 each thrown their way that Starkel missed them on, in addition to any they caught.  Boyd was banged up.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2019, 03:03:25 pm »

I seem to remember last week Burks for sure, and I think Knox both had at least 2 each thrown their way that Starkel missed them on, in addition to any they caught.  Boyd was banged up.
Burks is getting about 3 touches a game... Knox is getting about 4 touches a game... not enough... crucial downs Boyd needs to be in the game over whaley.
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Dropkick

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2019, 03:05:52 pm »

Burks is getting about 3 touches a game... Knox is getting about 4 touches a game... not enough... crucial downs Boyd needs to be in the game over whaley.
This!

Tortfeasor

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2019, 08:05:11 pm »

If your OL is bad then your team is bad. Our OL is bad.

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2019, 04:36:52 am »

Whaley's been a pretty productive guy.  We haven't gotten him a load of touches.

Its really strange to think that the most carries he's had in a season is 127.  He's good for 4+ a pop, each and every year.  He's emerged as a receiver a little more this year,  which has added to his game.  He's a solid complimentary back, and dogging him doesn't make much sense at all.


The problems with this team start up front.  You can live without a big armed QB, if you can pass block-- the passing game could spread the field and move the chains, if  there wasn't pressure from somewhere every play.  Until that gets better, not much else will.

hogsfan31

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2019, 05:27:46 am »

It also doesn’t help that we are the last team in the SEC in red zone stats and when we get to the red zone Craddock and Morris do not have all of our best players on the field. O’Grady or Boyd will be standing over on the sidelines while we are trying to score. Every single time we are in the red zone Burks, Knox, O’Grady, Boyd and Woods should be on the field. Go back and count how many times that has not been the case.
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Beaverfever

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2019, 05:51:03 am »

Well the point is that when there is a delta between the talent quotient and expected outcome, it's almost always attributable to coaching. 

So, in the SC vs. UGA equation as an example:

SC talent quotient = 6.0 + coaching 4.0 overall score = 10
UGA talent quotient = 9.0 + coaching = 0.5 = overall score = 9.5

It was a close game, went to OT so the combined talent and coaching number was probably pretty close. 

As is the case for most teams not Bama, LSU, UGA there will always be a talent quotient disparity.  That's why it's so imperative that the Razorbacks have a plus coaching ability individual. 

In 1.5 seasons so far I've not seen that with CM. The only coaching attribute that I'll say that is plus at this point is recruiting but I'm fearful that will quickly take a downturn given on field performance and how easily it will be for other programs to recruit against Arkansas with a head coach that is basically a lame duck. 




Not that it's pertinent to this thread but that's a generous assessment of the coaching in the Georgia/SC game.  Both coaches seemed hellbent on giving that game away, particularly Muschamp. Believe it or not SC won that game with a third string qb because they played like the better team.  Georgia plays low margin of error football and it finally caught up to them.   
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jkstock04

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2019, 06:12:06 am »

Many here claim this team is talented enough to have ( insert personal opinion here ), and especially talented enough that they should not ever lose to SJSU or to a team using a wr at Qb. But it is really that talented?

Offense

WR - without question the position with the most raw talent and the highest recruiting rankings. But, it is mostly young and is dependent on the Qb's which leads me to

QB - it seems the choices are a qb with command of the offense, but lacking the arm to utilize much of the talent of these receivers. Does not have the arm strength for many deep out type thrown or throws deep across the middle, and is not a deep threat on go routes. OR a qb with a big arm, but seemingly very inaccurate and makes poor decisions. When he is on he can make good use of the talents of the your receivers, but as we saw last week, he was contantly late and either behind or high on several really good routes by those young receivers

TE - O'grady has become the most dependable weapon, simply because he is a matchup nightmare when the D tries to cover him with a LB or safety.

RB - Boyd is good but beat up. Whaley has never bloomed into what many though he would.

OL - Do I really have to get into this group? They just are not playing very well.

Defense - I would argue, on raw talent and recruiting rankings, the DL is the most talented in those regards. Definitely not horrible, but not game changers either. Imo, a good solid group

LB - Young, no depth and slow ( when compared to ther SEc teams ) often seem to get out of position by trying to anticipate to make up for the lack of speed. Harris is a very good player, pretty sure tackler, but even he kept making wrong reads last week and got caught in the wash on several runs by the KY Qb.

DB - In a long tradition of Hog db's, they can not run with a receiver AND look for the ball. And they could not stop a slant if their life depended on it.

K - Limpert is very very good

Coaching - the coaches seem to be in over their heads, but it has to be hard to game plan when you are limited at QB and the OL. Chavis, on D, is known for pressure, but when your DL cant get any, and your db's are not great in man, it is hard to dial up pressure very often.

I am not contending the team is void of talent, I just do not think it is as talented as some believe, and the areas that are lacking are some of the most important on the field.
You think the defensive line is a "solid" group? I don't. Watch this weekend along the line of scrimmage and see what happens. I do like our splits and stances in comparison to the Bielema era...but I haven't seen anything other than off season hype, fluff stories, and pet nicknames to suggest this is a solid group.

If we hold Auburn to under 200 yards rushing this weekend that would be a major accomplishment, and I'll come back and eat crow..

To the rest of your post I pretty much agree with....however I still say if you did a San Jose comparison we should win that game on talent. I just can't fathom that San Jose St has more talent than us.
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Beaverfever

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2019, 06:53:55 am »

You think the defensive line is a "solid" group? I don't. Watch this weekend along the line of scrimmage and see what happens. I do like our splits and stances in comparison to the Bielema era...but I haven't seen anything other than off season hype, fluff stories, and pet nicknames to suggest this is a solid group.

If we hold Auburn to under 200 yards rushing this weekend that would be a major accomplishment, and I'll come back and eat crow..

To the rest of your post I pretty much agree with....however I still say if you did a San Jose comparison we should win that game on talent. I just can't fathom that San Jose St has more talent than us.
The front seven is an unmitigated disaster particularly at linebacker.  Three of our five linebackers are former walk-ons.
That and QB is why we're still so terrible.  Offensive line isn't good but I think it's improved from last year and the year before that.  I can at least envision a solid offensive line some time in the future.  SJSU doesn't have more talent than us.  None of the non-conference teams we've played should be able to hold us to less than 50 points.  Our skill players are legit SEC players.  Boyd, O'Grady, Burks, Knox and even Whaley can play football for about anyone in the country.  The management of the QB situation has been an abomination though. 
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The NewEra

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2019, 06:55:51 am »

The heart of this team is the infusion of talent over the past two years.  However, this staff behaves like over protective parents who are afraid their kid will fail, so they keep them at home, living in that same ole bedroom until they are 30.

Example:  Burks....He starts at receiver, catches punts and Morris says he's afraid to overuse him, for fear of him regressing.  It seems to me you use him as much as you can to find out where he might hit the wall, and then back off.  This guy is the best player to come out of this state in years and should have the ball in his hands in multiple fashion and that includes Wildcat.

Spivey at RB.  They are so protective of him that no one knows what he could actually do in a game setting.

The same thing goes for KJ Jefferson and multiple other players at multiple positions.  These guys are the future of this program and yet they are getting no SEC playing experience.

We aren't going to a Bowl Game, so let some of these younger players on both side of the ball get the taste of some blood.  That's what they were promised.  Quit keeping the young guys from making mistakes by not letting them have an opportunity to succeed.  We have experienced players making enough mistakes that fear of failure should not be a concern.

My issue with this program is not the players, but the coaching decisions and whoever is making those decisions.  If the coaches are going to learn on the job, the let's let the players do the same.

Stunna is right......the one group that has shown measurable improvement has been Special Teams.  That's because of coaching.
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Beaverfever

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2019, 07:00:22 am »

The heart of this team is the infusion of talent over the past two years.  However, this staff behaves like over protective parents who are afraid their kid will fail, so they keep them at home, living in that same ole bedroom until they are 30.

Example:  Burks....He starts at receiver, catches punts and Morris says he's afraid to overuse him, for fear of him regressing.  It seems to me you use him as much as you can to find out where he might hit the wall, and then back off.  This guy is the best player to come out of this state in years and should have the ball in his hands in multiple fashion and that includes Wildcat.

Spivey at RB.  They are so protective of him that no one knows what he could actually do in a game setting.

The same thing goes for KJ Jefferson and multiple other players at multiple positions.  These guys are the future of this program and yet they are getting no SEC playing experience.

We aren't going to a Bowl Game, so let some of these younger players on both side of the ball get the taste of some blood.  That's what they were promised.  Quit keeping the young guys from making mistakes by not letting them have an opportunity to succeed.  We have experienced players making enough mistakes that fear of failure should not be a concern.

My issue with this program is not the players, but the coaching decisions and whoever is making those decisions.  If the coaches are going to learn on the job, the let's let the players do the same.

Stunna is right......the one group that has shown measurable improvement has been Special Teams.  That's because of coaching.
Good post.  It's weird too because if Morris would let some of the younger guys play he'd earn a lot more patience from the fanbase.  Everything about Morris is just too cautious for my tastes. We haven't won a conference game in almost two years so there's not much to lose yet we consistently look tight as hell. 
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hogfan14

Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2019, 07:05:53 am »

There is definitely a correlation between the amount of upperclassman Star talent on each roster and where they likely finish in the division:

Bama: 7-5* | 18-4*
LSU: 3-5* | 22-4*
Auburn: 1-5* | 16-4*
A&M: 0-5* | 14-4*
MSU: 0-5* | 11-4*
Ole Miss: 1-5* | 8-4*
Arkansas: 1-5* | 5-4*
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Keith_Dixon

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2019, 07:50:39 am »

Whaley's been a pretty productive guy.  We haven't gotten him a load of touches.

Its really strange to think that the most carries he's had in a season is 127.  He's good for 4+ a pop, each and every year.  He's emerged as a receiver a little more this year,  which has added to his game.  He's a solid complimentary back, and dogging him doesn't make much sense at all.
 

His stats are inflated by a few explosive plays per season, mostly against inferior competition.  He is very inefficient, and not very productive.  His play is very, very flawed.  He doesn't get many carries for a reason.  Knowledgeable people don't ask this question, because it's evident. 
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ballz2thewall

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Re: Lets examine the talent
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2019, 07:59:10 am »

you can't get any meaningful discussion on it, to wit:

https://forums.hogville.net/index.php?topic=693801.0
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