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Author Topic: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....  (Read 5546 times)

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Piggfoot

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2019, 10:47:00 am »

Arkansas is not an Elite Program.
Arkansas does not have a nationally recognized tradition of excellence.
Arkansas does not produce sufficient SEC west D1 players.
Arkansas in modern  football has only been relevant in the conference with generational talent from Arkansas.
Arkansas with rare exceptions has to depend on players from other states who have been passed over by their mother state.
Arkansas has never had a coach in modern times that left voluntarily for  a better job.
Ad infinitum.
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Razorback de Nosferatu

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2019, 10:48:24 am »

FACTS are nasty things....

Arkansas is not an elite football program?

I'll give you that one. Fact.

Chad Morris is "carrying on the tradition" ?

No, that is not a fact. You can carry on all day long about how much Arkansas has struggled in the SEC, about how bad "Bert" was, etc. But struggling in the SEC is one thing. 2-10 is another. Losing to ULM under Smile after Petrino ran us into a ditch was not good. But it was at least swept under the rug of "[terrible] interim coach." Losing to Toledo was not good, but at least Toledo was a solid team that year, and that Bielema team went on to finish third in the West.

No, Chad Morris is not carrying on anything. That is NOT a fact. Chad Morris is producing results that are historically bad for our program. He is digging the basement deeper. THAT fact is what's "nasty."

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OkieBack

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2019, 11:14:20 am »

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

I think this take is a bit unrealistic.  I don't feel Razorback fans aren't expecting a great football team year in and year out.  But 2-10 is a far cry from 8-4 or even 7-5. 

If Arkansas has historically been anything below average I don't think the fans at this point would care or be this upset.  Arkansas has set some level of expectation even if it means losing 4 or 5 games a season.  Arkansas is a program that should go bowling 7 out of 10 years.  There have been traditional bottom feeders in every conference but Arkansas has not been one of them, even in the SEC.

My concern is that I am seeing coaching mistakes as often as player mistakes.  The coaching has to be right at the top or else our whole team is flawed, regardless of what talent we put on the field. 

Chavis has lost me.  He needs to retire, seriously.  Morris is on a thin wire.  His decisions regarding QB play is baffling at times.  From here on out I would start Hicks and tell Starkel to keep studying the playbook, have the defense play bend-but-don't break, and possibly play KJ a half or two just to see what he looks like as a dual threat QB.  At this point it can't hurt so long as red shirt status is not threatened.
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010HogFan

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2019, 11:20:05 am »

This thread is stupid. We were never this bad growing up in my lifetime and we've been in the SEC the whole time.

Locutus_of_Boar

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2019, 11:35:22 am »

Thanks, Dr. Phil, how have we managed without this deep insight?

We all feel better now I am sure.

Ugly fact Arkansas is facing this Saturday.
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LZH

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2019, 11:50:10 am »

A couple of quick thoughts (not that you asked....)


Nebraska was a monster under Osborne, but it's located in the middle of nowhere.  Anyone remember where Tommy Frazier was from?....Bradenton, FL.  They recruited nationally.  To Lincoln, NE.  Also, Utah did great under Meyer.  In Salt Lake City (white snow, white people, etc.).

And has anyone wondered if Jerry Jones would be considered football royalty if he hadn't been on the same Razorback team with Jimmy Johnson?  How has he done since JJ left?  So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?


Just wonderin'.

Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2019, 11:58:40 am »

The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
Dude that is ridiculous. We BEGAN THIS DECADE with back to back double digit win seasons. Then hired the THREE WORST COACHES IN HOG HISTORY back-to-back-to-back.

LJHOG

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2019, 12:05:07 pm »

The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.
Yeah, but didn't you want Nutt fired?

hogsanity

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2019, 12:12:54 pm »

I think this take is a bit unrealistic.  I don't feel Razorback fans aren't expecting a great football team year in and year out.  But 2-10 is a far cry from 8-4 or even 7-5. 



Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2019, 12:14:44 pm »

Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
::)  No.  A little more to it than that as you know. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2019, 12:27:36 pm »

::)  No.  A little more to it than that as you know. 

Not with most fans. Most fans dont get into the personal lives of people. And back when Hatfield was here, with most fans it was a boring offense and losses to Texas that did it.
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al_pigcino

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2019, 12:33:09 pm »

So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?

I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.
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HogPharmer

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2019, 12:41:55 pm »

***Inappropriate political content removed***.

Didn't you try to start a thread that said this same thing? Which was immediately deleted? Are you retarded or something?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 03:22:20 pm by 007 License To Squeal »
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2019, 12:46:15 pm »

A couple of quick thoughts (not that you asked....)


Nebraska was a monster under Osborne, but it's located in the middle of nowhere.  Anyone remember where Tommy Frazier was from?....Bradenton, FL.  They recruited nationally.  To Lincoln, NE.  Also, Utah did great under Meyer.  In Salt Lake City (white snow, white people, etc.).

And has anyone wondered if Jerry Jones would be considered football royalty if he hadn't been on the same Razorback team with Jimmy Johnson?  How has he done since JJ left?  So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?


Just wonderin'.

$$$ is the key.
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Hogwop

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2019, 01:23:17 pm »

Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.

Saying darn like this with nothing to back it up is why no one takes you seriously

hogsanity

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2019, 02:53:04 pm »

Saying darn like this with nothing to back it up is why no one takes you seriously

Well, in 3 of his 5 seasons he had reached those #'s. Which is more far fetched, that, or those that say BP would have kept winning 10+ games a season?
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mj4president

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2019, 02:56:40 pm »

i stand corrected.  I attended the game in New Jersey (Piscataway), as well as the one in Fayetteville.  Rutgers fans ragged us pretty good, as they should have.

To be fair, we started an NFL TE at Qb
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26.2Hog

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2019, 03:15:02 pm »

Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
Wrong.

First of all, Hatfield won at a 9+ games per year clip. 

And for Bielema to win at an 8 games per year clip, he would have had to win 10 games per year for his next 5 years.  No one believes there was any chance that was going to happen.  Well, except for you.

HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2019, 03:32:15 pm »

The facts are every time we've had a good coach since Broyles we've run them off.
Holtz ran him off.
Hatfield ran him off.
Nutt ran him off.
Petrino ran him off.
Next good coach will be the same because that's what the PTB does.
What do you mean, powers that be?
These are our own idiotic fans doing this.
In some ways, we deserve this right now.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2019, 03:36:29 pm »

All together now...

"Hank, why do you stink?....
...why do you blow smoke?
Why must you live out the wrongs that you wrote

I'm just carryin' on that old..
Family Tradition'   "
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bennyl08

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2019, 04:02:11 pm »

The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Two points.

1. Morris isn't carrying on the tradition. He's 0-fer and losing to the really bad teams. Bielema was a 7-8 win a year guy who'd win 3-4 SEC games most years. Morris isn't just bad, but historically bad and on pace to be objectively the worst coach in our history and among the worst coaches ever in the history of the SEC.

2. You are right about what our program averages. However, there's a difference between what we should expect and what we should accept. An average coach can come here, recruit at a very average level, and get very average results and we should still consistently make bowl games every year. That is the bare minimum and won't get you long term success.

What our fan base should accept as our "place" in the SEC is a coach who can average ~9 wins a year in the SEC-west. And you'll find that about one in four hires here does just that at their equilibrium. So, it's not like asking for a once in a lifetime level coach to only accept that level of success long term.
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LZH

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2019, 05:32:37 pm »

I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.

How's that NFL playoff record since JJ split?  Don't bitch and run, let's hear it.
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Hogwop

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2019, 05:37:20 pm »

Well, in 3 of his 5 seasons he had reached those #'s. Which is more far fetched, that, or those that say BP would have kept winning 10+ games a season?

He won 8 games one season, that does not an average make. So, no, he didnt reach those #s 3 out of 5 seasons. Who the Frank is talking about Petrino?
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CivilBoar

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2019, 05:48:34 pm »

I think there's already a consensus around the idea that Arkansas does not have an elite football program. Elite would seem to mean something like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Arkansas fans are unusually tolerant and patient if compared to fanbases like that. Try to coach at more or less any program in the Power 5, go 2-10 in your first year, getting slammed by North Texas, then go into year two and lose to San Jose State and put up another losing record. More or less anywhere. Oregon State, NC State, Syracuse, Arizona State, Louisville, etc. Lemme know how the fanbase reacts.
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bennyl08

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2019, 05:58:50 pm »

I think there's already a consensus around the idea that Arkansas does not have an elite football program. Elite would seem to mean something like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Arkansas fans are unusually tolerant and patient if compared to fanbases like that. Try to coach at more or less any program in the Power 5, go 2-10 in your first year, getting slammed by North Texas, then go into year two and lose to San Jose State and put up another losing record. More or less anywhere. Oregon State, NC State, Syracuse, Arizona State, Louisville, etc. Lemme know how the fanbase reacts.

Case in point, Oregon State hasn't even made a bowl game since 2013. 3 of their past 4 full seasons they only 2 games or less.

And even they haven't been as bad as Arkansas is right now and despite doing better under they still had an appetite for more. Gary Anderson went 2-10 his first year. He went 4-8 his 2nd year going 3-6 in conference play. He voluntarily resigned in the middle of year three because he started 1-5 and new he was sucking too bad.

hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2019, 06:46:37 pm »

Who said we were elite? DUH, you don't say Inspector Clueless-eau..

When you read a lot of the post it sure seems a lot of people do think we have a great history and are or should be an elite program.  I'm not sure why they feel that way but fan loyalty is a strong thing.  To get there we need to hire the right guy with the right plan and recruit the  elite players.
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bennyl08

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2019, 08:58:30 pm »

When you read a lot of the post it sure seems a lot of people do think we have a great history and are or should be an elite program.  I'm not sure why they feel that way but fan loyalty is a strong thing.  To get there we need to hire the right guy with the right plan and recruit the  elite players.

I read a lot of the posts here and in no way, shape, or form get the vibes that you seem to be getting.

We do have a great history, but even our history isn't an elite one. It is a top 25 history though. And even in the SEC, our baseline is still a bowl team on average with a division title and/or 10+ win season about once every 5 years or so.

In terms of what to look for moving forward, let's look at an analogy and stick with football. Let's say you have recruited 5 qb's. Just playing probability, one of those qb's is going to suck, 3 will be okay, and one will be quite good. You recruit all 5, but you name the best one the starter. Not every HC we hire will be a great HC. Most are going to do similar to Bielema winning 6-8 games a year unless they lose the lockerroom. One will be pretty bad, and one will be quite good. You stick long term with the one who is quite good, you cut your losses quickly with the really bad one, and you give the middle ground coaches some time, but eventually move on knowing you will find a quite good one.
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Razorback Red

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2019, 09:00:28 pm »

The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.

We are 13 - 46 since 2012 .... yes, we have won 13 SEC games in the past 8 years, not very competitive in my book.

hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2019, 09:35:47 pm »

We are 13 - 46 since 2012 .... yes, we have won 13 SEC games in the past 8 years, not very competitive in my book.
Somebody thought Chad Morris was the guy to fix that. So he proceeds to go 0-11 in SEC.
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popcornhog

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2019, 09:59:07 pm »

The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Morris is nowhere near average.
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GTOWNHOG

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2019, 10:24:37 pm »

I read a lot of the posts here and in no way, shape, or form get the vibes that you seem to be getting.

We do have a great history, but even our history isn't an elite one. It is a top 25 history though. And even in the SEC, our baseline is still a bowl team on average with a division title and/or 10+ win season about once every 5 years or so.


Arkansas has been in the SEC since 1992.  We have won or shared THREE SEC West titles.  That averages out to one Division Title every NINE years.  There have been no SEC Championships in 27 years.  We have THREE 10+ win seasons in the last 27 years. (2006, 2010, 2011.) That averages out to one every 9 years.  Finally, post season rankings look like this since 1992:  1998 #16, 1999 #17, 2006 #15, 2010 #12,  2011 #5.   That's it.  We have been ranked in the post season TOP 25 FIVE times since 1992.  NONE in the last 8 years.

I hate it.  I have been attending games since i was NINE.  59 years in all.  A season ticket holder for 45 consecutive years.  A graduate of the University of Arkansas.  I don't know what it's gonna take, but I doubt that I will live to see it in my life time..  WE DESERVE BETTER!!!
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al_pigcino

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2019, 07:52:58 am »

How's that NFL playoff record since JJ split?  Don't bitch and run, let's hear it.
I honestly have no clue.  I don't watch NFL. 

Jimmy Johnson - 44 and 36 at Dallas.  Last year was 1993. .550% winning percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Johnson_(American_football_coach)
Cowboys since 1994 - 218 and 182 .545% winning percentage https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/index.htm
So yes, it looks like they fell off.  .05% worth of drop off.

jkstock04

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2019, 08:21:54 am »

Why are some fans so intent not only on being satisfied with terrible football, but trying to convince other people to give up on being anything more than a doormat as well?

I can't figure out why any Razorback fan would want to maintain the status quo and keep Morris around.  He's never going to be anything better than mediocre, and he would have to improve to achieve mediocrity.  The worst thing that could happen would be for him to finally win a game and convince the administration to give him more time.  Every game this staff coaches at Arkansas is a week that is gone and can never be gotten back.

"We suck and you people need to learn to accept it!" What kind of of outlook is that?
I was kind of thinking yesterday....I believe his ceiling here is 7 wins. Bielemas ceiling was and always was going to be 8 wins. I think Morris is 7 wins if everything goes absolutely perfectly a couple or 3 years down the road.
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Pennywise

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2019, 08:24:48 am »

I was kind of thinking yesterday....I believe his ceiling here is 7 wins. Bielemas ceiling was and always was going to be 8 wins. I think Morris is 7 wins if everything goes absolutely perfectly a couple or 3 years down the road.

8 wins a year at Arkansas is phenomenal. Period.

Like Bruce James said this morning, "Great proven coaches are not coming here. The national reputation of the Arkansas Razorback program is where your career comes to die."

He also pointed out we had a big ten champion coach, rose bowl appearance coach and this program killed his career and he will never be able to come back to college football.

Like a post from months ago....."it's not you....its us."
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Kevin

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2019, 08:26:51 am »

i think bret killed bret.

Pennywise

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2019, 08:30:31 am »

i think bret killed bret.

Yes. We have sailed to success after he left. Much like SMU has.

nolt

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2019, 08:59:30 am »

The ugliest fact is how much we are paying coaches for this record.

It's not unreasonable for Hog fans to expect better for 'our' money.
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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2019, 09:09:49 am »

Nebraska and Tennessee are in as bad a shape as Arkansas - Texas was as well until Herman

I’d say all of the above are Top 20 all time if not Top 10

All of us have just been snakebit for the last decade or so

Nebraska? Nebraska has a winning record with a second year coach. They have won CONFERENCE games. A real, CONFERENCE GAME. Their coach has won CLOSE GAMES.

Tennessee? Tennessee has won a CONFERENCE GAME -- against and SEC WEST opponent.

We can dream of being as bad as Tennessee and Nebraska.
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hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2019, 10:01:35 am »

Nebraska? Nebraska has a winning record with a second year coach. They have won CONFERENCE games. A real, CONFERENCE GAME. Their coach has won CLOSE GAMES.

Tennessee? Tennessee has won a CONFERENCE GAME -- against and SEC WEST opponent.

We can dream of being as bad as Tennessee and Nebraska.
Dead on.   Arkansas is probably the worst P5 in the nation at the moment.  The question without an answer is how to fix it at this point.  Our current situation doesn't appear to be advancing.  Some will say that they see improvement.  Well, about art they say,"I don't know anything about art but I know what I like."   I think that may be where people seeing improvement are at.  Sure, improvement because every team may make some small improvement, like Arkansas can now seem to line up properly, but not enough improvement to win and that's the bottom line.
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hawginbigd1

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2019, 10:07:56 am »

The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!
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hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2019, 10:15:14 am »

I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!
It's about what have you done lately and lately we are terrible.  If you want to ride the coattails of a 1960's 3 way tie for a national title fine.  I'd prefer to do something significant in the next half century.
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mizzouman

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2019, 10:19:00 am »

The ugliest fact is how much we are paying coaches for this record.

It's not unreasonable for Hog fans to expect better for 'our' money.
Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that. 
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bkjbearcat

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2019, 10:20:57 am »

So it's wrong to expect to be Missouri?????? Arkansas can't be Missouri???
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hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2019, 10:26:56 am »

Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that.

LOL!!   He's getting paid for nothing!
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Hogwild

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2019, 10:27:11 am »

I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.

Not sure about that, in the last 21 years he has hired 5 coaches combined they've won 3 playoff games. Post Jimmy and Barry he hasn't done well.
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hogbbq

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2019, 10:30:40 am »

Not sure about that, in the last 21 years he has hired 5 coaches combined they've won 3 playoff games. Post Jimmy and Barry he hasn't done well.
That's true, not a lot of success with his hires.  He got Barry and Jimmy because of their playing days.  He thought he knew more about football than JJ and so JJ left after winning a couple of super bowls.  That's not good business sense.
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jkstock04

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2019, 11:33:03 am »

8 wins a year at Arkansas is phenomenal. Period.

Like Bruce James said this morning, "Great proven coaches are not coming here. The national reputation of the Arkansas Razorback program is where your career comes to die."

He also pointed out we had a big ten champion coach, rose bowl appearance coach and this program killed his career and he will never be able to come back to college football.

Like a post from months ago....."it's not you....its us."
"Ceiling"

Anyone that thinks Bielema could avg 8 wins a year here is on hard drugs.
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hogsanity

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2019, 01:08:13 pm »

I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!


No, the prior 70 are skewing the last 26. Almost have to look at AR football in 3 era's, but at least 2 - pre sec and since joining the sec. People keep referring to the program as one of the top 25 of all time, ehh, maybe, but most of that reputation was built prior to 1980, and definitely prior to 1990. Yes, the Hogs won a NC in football FIFTY FOUR YEARS AGO. Also, in the ensuing 53 season only 22 different teams have won or shared a NC - GA, Ga tech, Ohio St, Ou, Tn, Texas, Penn St, Clemson, Michigan, Michigan St, Bama, Aub, Colorado, Washington, USC, Florida, Fla St, Miami, ND, Neb, Pitt, BYU - 53 seasons, and only 22 teams won outright or shared a nc. Since the BCS began in 1998, only 12 teams have won the NC - Fla, FSU, Ou, Ohio St, USC, LSU, Bama, Aub, Clem, TN, Miami, TX.

Matter of fact, go all the way back to 1945 and you only pick up 5 more schools, and one of those, Army in 44 and 45, was an anomaly created by WW2. 74 years and only 27 teams have won outright or shared in a nc.
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code red

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Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2019, 01:15:17 pm »

Arkansas has money.  Arkansas hasn't spent it.  Arkansas needs to throw some around.
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Hogs33

Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2019, 01:15:25 pm »

We have had some good years in the SEC. Unfortunately more bad than good though.

However, if your going to bring up "tradition" and overall records you cannot just use the SEC stats. You also have to use SWC stats to and we were once a powerhouse football program. So IT CAN HAPPEN.
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