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Author Topic: Lost upper classmen  (Read 1263 times)

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CoastalHawg

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Lost upper classmen
« on: September 10, 2019, 07:35:05 pm »

Mike, love the new segment. Wondering how you think the turnover with Morris compares with other recent Razorback coaching changes? 
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Keciap

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 12:00:27 pm »

Especially with Koilann Jackson, David Porter, Chase Hayden and other top recruits from Coach B. I donít feel the best players are being played. You canít expect to rebuild with only freshman. There has to be some experience on the field. I have always believed in playing your best players.
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navyhog24

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 12:09:12 pm »

Especially with Koilann Jackson, David Porter, Chase Hayden and other top recruits from Coach B. I donít feel the best players are being played. You canít expect to rebuild with only freshman. There has to be some experience on the field. I have always believed in playing your best players.

Bert's recruiting was overrated. Jackson has constantly been injured. Porter was a last second grab by Bert. Hayden had a decent freshman season, but even he dances too much in the backfield. Whaley for being a top 5 RB during his recruitment hasn't panned so far like we all thought he would.
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CoastalHawg

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 02:36:41 pm »

Especially with Koilann Jackson, David Porter, Chase Hayden and other top recruits from Coach B. I donít feel the best players are being played. You canít expect to rebuild with only freshman. There has to be some experience on the field. I have always believed in playing your best players.
Yep. I agree. Iíve seen reports of 30 or more players out of the program. Thatís nearly 50% of the returning players from the last Bielema team. Party line is all of them were bad apples, wouldnít conform to the new discipline, or were just not talented enough to be worth salvaging. Comparing how this team looks this year versus the last two seasons, my BS meter is pegging.
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tophawg19

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 02:43:44 pm »

only 3 land at P 5 universities .
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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 02:51:25 pm »

Yep. I agree. Iíve seen reports of 30 or more players out of the program. Thatís nearly 50% of the returning players from the last Bielema team. Party line is all of them were bad apples, wouldnít conform to the new discipline, or were just not talented enough to be worth salvaging. Comparing how this team looks this year versus the last two seasons, my BS meter is pegging.
People see what they want to see
22 players transferred out.
I am not sure of the exact number but 14 or 15 graduated.
That would put the total at around 37.

Of the 22 that transferred out 3 landed at P5 programs.
The 2 qb's who transferred out went down and did not make the starting lineup.
This is a TOTAL rebuild. He said it from the beginning .No surprises

I don't know exactly what ax you wish to grind but I just sharpened it for ya.

Have a blessed day

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CoastalHawg

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 06:50:26 pm »

People see what they want to see
22 players transferred out.
I am not sure of the exact number but 14 or 15 graduated.
That would put the total at around 37.

Of the 22 that transferred out 3 landed at P5 programs.
The 2 qb's who transferred out went down and did not make the starting lineup.
This is a TOTAL rebuild. He said it from the beginning .No surprises

I don't know exactly what ax you wish to grind but I just sharpened it for ya.

Have a blessed day
Certainly allow me to clear this up for you...
2 Axes to grind actually.
1. Morris and staff for a devastatingly poor coaching performance through 14 games.
2. Razorback fans that choose to player bash both current and former to make excuses for Morris and staff.
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GroŖer Kriegschwein

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 07:26:02 pm »

Certainly allow me to clear this up for you...
2 Axes to grind actually.
1. Morris and staff for a devastatingly poor coaching performance through 14 games.
2. Razorback fans that choose to player bash both current and former to make excuses for Morris and staff.

Iíd say thatís a fair assessment and actually in line with Hogville posting rules.
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PorkSoda

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 07:29:01 pm »

Certainly allow me to clear this up for you...
2 Axes to grind actually.
1. Morris and staff for a devastatingly poor coaching performance through 14 games.
2. Razorback fans that choose to player bash both current and former to make excuses for Morris and staff.

+1 if I could


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Keciap

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 11:26:13 pm »

People see what they want to see
22 players transferred out.
I am not sure of the exact number but 14 or 15 graduated.
That would put the total at around 37.

Of the 22 that transferred out 3 landed at P5 programs.
The 2 qb's who transferred out went down and did not make the starting lineup.
This is a TOTAL rebuild. He said it from the beginning .No surprises

I don't know exactly what ax you wish to grind but I just sharpened it for ya.

Have a blessed day

28 Transferred from the program since Morris arrived. Which is the highest by NCAA records. The previous highest was 8. Even ESPN commentators questioned all the departures.
To say these players werenít talented is not true.
There is still a lot of talent left from the previous staff on this team. They just donít get to play. Just like Starkel had more reps and outperformed Hicks in fall camp, but still didnít get the starting job.
I doubt the people that like calling young student athletes losers and talentless are ex All-American college and high school players. Iím proud of all athletes no matter the sport that are able to play on the next level.

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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 04:06:56 am »

Certainly allow me to clear this up for you...
2 Axes to grind actually.
1. Morris and staff for a devastatingly poor coaching performance through 14 games.
2. Razorback fans that choose to player bash both current and former to make excuses for Morris and staff.

Is it an excuse when the 2 qbís from the previous staff could t start at WKU or southeast Louisa a?  I think there is some serious thought missing from the back and forth in this thread.  Someone complains so much talent is leaving, yet only 3 land at P5 schools.  That should pretty much end the discussion right there. 

To bring in the starkel hicks thing is irrelevant, although I think Morris failed there. 

Iíd challenge someone to tell us what talent is on the bench because of morris playing favorites.   
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 04:08:23 am »

28 Transferred from the program since Morris arrived. Which is the highest by NCAA records. The previous highest was 8. Even ESPN commentators questioned all the departures.
To say these players werenít talented is not true.
There is still a lot of talent left from the previous staff on this team. They just donít get to play. Just like Starkel had more reps and outperformed Hicks in fall camp, but still didnít get the starting job.
I doubt the people that like calling young student athletes losers and talentless are ex All-American college and high school players. Iím proud of all athletes no matter the sport that are able to play on the next level.

3 of 28 man... 3 of 28.  If only 3 landed at P5 schools, how do make the rest of your ur comment with a straight face?
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CoastalHawg

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 05:38:03 am »

Is it an excuse when the 2 qbís from the previous staff could t start at WKU or southeast Louisa a?  I think there is some serious thought missing from the back and forth in this thread.  Someone complains so much talent is leaving, yet only 3 land at P5 schools.  That should pretty much end the discussion right there. 

To bring in the starkel hicks thing is irrelevant, although I think Morris failed there. 

Iíd challenge someone to tell us what talent is on the bench because of morris playing favorites.

My point in asking the question was that our lack of depth and experience isnít just on Bielema. Morris culling this many upperclassmen is unusual and is having a significant, negative impact. And I think there are several players that could be adding value on the field at other schools (Pettway, Nance, Storey to name a few) or sitting their transfer year. 

This obsession with upgrading talent and judging players based on their composite recruiting score minimizes the more important functions of a program like player development and game planning. Granted there are some elite prospects that canít miss each year and occasionally 1 chooses Arkansas. But we have seen many more cases of 3 star kids working their way to All SEC and even to playing on Sundays.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 05:48:15 am »

My point in asking the question was that our lack of depth and experience isnít just on Bielema. Morris culling this many upperclassmen is unusual and is having a significant, negative impact. And I think there are several players that could be adding value on the field at other schools (Pettway, Nance, Storey to name a few) or sitting their transfer year. 

This obsession with upgrading talent and judging players based on their composite recruiting score minimizes the more important functions of a program like player development and game planning. Granted there are some elite prospects that canít miss each year and occasionally 1 chooses Arkansas. But we have seen many more cases of 3 star kids working their way to All SEC and even to playing on Sundays.

Pettway wanted out when he saw the talent coming behind him

Nance freaking quit on this team and told coach to go f himself. 

Storey isnít cracking the 2 deep at western Kentucky. 

None of these guys are sitting because of a transfer year.  They are all 3 grad transfers who if graduated could play their final year of eligibility anywhere they wanted.  Iím seriously wondering about you.  You bring up player development in a discussion of Morrisís lack of depth not beioemas fault, but players that were under Bielema for 3 years are your evidence? 

Morris has to cull the bad attitudes.  See the post game pressers after ole miss.  The team says they arenít going to quit like last year or let one lose beat them twice.  Roster turnover had to happen after last year.  The proof is right in front of you.  Morris needed room for 6 olineman, how many Dline?, the best receiving recruiting group in the nation, and 2 grad transfer qbís along with what people think is a good one to be in KJ.   

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CoastalHawg

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 07:41:43 am »

Pettway wanted out when he saw the talent coming behind him

Nance freaking quit on this team and told coach to go f himself. 

Storey isnít cracking the 2 deep at western Kentucky. 

None of these guys are sitting because of a transfer year.  They are all 3 grad transfers who if graduated could play their final year of eligibility anywhere they wanted.  Iím seriously wondering about you.  You bring up player development in a discussion of Morrisís lack of depth not beioemas fault, but players that were under Bielema for 3 years are your evidence? 

Morris has to cull the bad attitudes.  See the post game pressers after ole miss.  The team says they arenít going to quit like last year or let one lose beat them twice.  Roster turnover had to happen after last year.  The proof is right in front of you.  Morris needed room for 6 olineman, how many Dline?, the best receiving recruiting group in the nation, and 2 grad transfer qbís along with what people think is a good one to be in KJ.

Ok Nance wouldnít have contributed this year... he wouldíve graduated - my mistake. And maybe he was an attitude problem.
Pettway seems to be a good kid and was a solid, durable, experienced receiver that we could use right now. Storey is #2 QB at WKU but I think will win the starting job this weekend. Iím not saying roster turnover wasnít needed. But the way this staff went about it cost us probably 6-8 players that couldíve made a significant difference.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2019, 09:24:06 am »

Ok Nance wouldnít have contributed this year... he wouldíve graduated - my mistake. And maybe he was an attitude problem.
Pettway seems to be a good kid and was a solid, durable, experienced receiver that we could use right now. Storey is #2 QB at WKU but I think will win the starting job this weekend. Iím not saying roster turnover wasnít needed. But the way this staff went about it cost us probably 6-8 players that couldíve made a significant difference.

Those 6-8 that couldnít find a landing spot at another power 5 or sunbelt schools?  It was very telling when everyone left and so many had such hard times finding a place to play. 

Pettway is the only one you could make any argument for, so we lost 1 in a coaching and philosophy change.  Thatís gonna happen
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CoastalHawg

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2019, 11:41:54 am »

Those 6-8 that couldnít find a landing spot at another power 5 or sunbelt schools?  It was very telling when everyone left and so many had such hard times finding a place to play. 

Pettway is the only one you could make any argument for, so we lost 1 in a coaching and philosophy change.  Thatís gonna happen

Your lack of P5 transfers is a strong talking point... But players that have been told they arenít good enough to keep their scholarships from a 2-10 team may just have different motivations in where they land than just the best program that will take them. Finding a school that has a need at your position and that is a good geographical fit for you is tough unless you are a freak athlete or a proven entity.

Flip around your point above. Do you really think out of all those players that left only Pettway could add value to our depth chart? If that truly is the case our 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes were way overrated (both mid 20s).
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2019, 12:37:33 pm »


Your lack of P5 transfers is a strong talking point... But players that have been told they arenít good enough to keep their scholarships from a 2-10 team may just have different motivations in where they land than just the best program that will take them. Finding a school that has a need at your position and that is a good geographical fit for you is tough unless you are a freak athlete or a proven entity.

Flip around your point above. Do you really think out of all those players that left only Pettway could add value to our depth chart? If that truly is the case our 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes were way overrated (both mid 20s).

I think recruiting ranks are a big hoax.  Burks not being a 5 star, players getting a bump when they committed to OU over Arkansas, getting knocked down when chasing Arkansas over X, etc.  So to use them as your barometer, while it is popular, I don't think it really fits. 

With as much money at stake in football and the coaching careers, if a player can help a team win, albeit UCA, Tulsa, Or North Texas, they are going to take them.  The guys we asked to leave for whatever reason, couldn't catch on there.  Keep in mind, we had some talented players retire, take solid careers like police officer, we had some who are in legal trouble (maybe it was just one, the LB).  So not all of those were lack of talent.  I'd bet the LB'er in legal trouble would have caught on somewhere if not for the troubles. I'd like to find a compiled list and look at it individually on a player by player basis. 

But with everything I've read, Im not sure this team is missing any of those players.  what the heck, I googled it and found something.  Want to reference recruiting rankings, these players all medically retired; Zach rogers, Jalen Merrick and Jake Heinrech.  They were all giving us recruiting ranking bumps.  Also Dylan Hays medically hung it up. 

The number 3 may be incorrect, giving on timing I am not sure.  For instance the linked article ( https://247sports.com/college/arkansas/Article/Arkansas-football-transfers-2018-125388261/ ) Will Gragg and Hedlund contributed, along with nance and Hall.  So it might actually be higher than 3.  Gragg might have helped us, Im not real sure, but he would definitely be one that we could say had as good of a chance to help us as any that left.

Im also drawing a blank on the RB that left us after this past season, who could have really helped us I thought. Maleek Williams?  Im pretty sure he ended up at a Group of 5 or better school.   
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Keciap

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2019, 02:53:18 pm »

My point in asking the question was that our lack of depth and experience isnít just on Bielema. Morris culling this many upperclassmen is unusual and is having a significant, negative impact. And I think there are several players that could be adding value on the field at other schools (Pettway, Nance, Storey to name a few) or sitting their transfer year. 

This obsession with upgrading talent and judging players based on their composite recruiting score minimizes the more important functions of a program like player development and game planning. Granted there are some elite prospects that canít miss each year and occasionally 1 chooses Arkansas. But we have seen many more cases of 3 star kids working their way to All SEC and even to playing on Sundays.

I agree 100%! These 3,4 and 5 star ratings are overrated. Several 4-5 star athletes donít pan out in college.
Favoritism can ruin a team on any level, especially when your not playing your best athletes. Most of the people on this board and others only look at their ďstarĒ rating and conclude the player is less talented. Not true. I have attended these camps and if running drills tells how well you pass rush, play defense, throw or kick a ball in real game situations that would be a first. You donít know what a player can do until they are on the field. I honestly could care less of a player had no stars to 5 stars as long as they can play on the field. I have personally attended these camps and seen young men attain 4-5 star ratings but in game situations canít even block properly or protect the quarterback. Itís just a individual skill/drill rating.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2019, 02:59:28 pm »

I agree 100%! These 3,4 and 5 star ratings are overrated. Several 4-5 star athletes donít pan out in college.
Favoritism can ruin a team on any level, especially when your not playing your best athletes. Most of the people on this board and others only look at their ďstarĒ rating and conclude the player is less talented. Not true. I have attended these camps and if running drills tells how well you pass rush, play defense, throw or kick a ball in real game situations that would be a first. You donít know what a player can do until they are on the field. I honestly could care less of a player had no stars to 5 stars as long as they can play on the field. I have personally attended these camps and seen young men attain 4-5 star ratings but in game situations canít even block properly or protect the quarterback. Itís just a individual skill/drill rating.

We are still waiting for names to support your accusations that there is talent from the last staff that is not getting to play because of favoritism. 
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Keciap

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2019, 04:03:47 pm »

We are still waiting for names to support your accusations that there is talent from the last staff that is not getting to play because of favoritism.

T.J. Hammonds even before 4 game suspension

Koilann Jackson not injured now

David Porter solid camp more reps than others #1 DE in state. Wasnít offered by Arkansas due to grades. Neither was Akial Byers Defensive playerof the year and still no offer from Bielema due to failing grades.

Chase Hayden

Devwah Whaley (gonna run Boyd in the ground playing him almost entire game)

Nick Starkel had more reps and better camp and sadly still may not keep the starting job due to loyalty factor with Hicks

A few others that will not get the PT.
I donít want to here about them not buying into the new system or not being talented. Itís not true!

There are several teams playing with rosters full of freshman and they are winning games. If you donít mix a good amount of experience with these young players to bring them along and solid play calling you can forget it. You can have all the talent in the world and still have a losing program.


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navyhog24

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2019, 05:26:38 pm »

TJ Hammonds did it to himself. He doesn't have the work ethic. Koilan Jackson is behind in reps and now behind more talented freshmen. Porter, just no. Hayden dances around in the backfield too much, at least in the past. We'll see this season. Whaley, for all the tout, has been average at best. He's a decent backup for Boyd. 
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2019, 06:14:48 pm »

T.J. Hammonds even before 4 game suspension

Koilann Jackson not injured now

David Porter solid camp more reps than others #1 DE in state. Wasnít offered by Arkansas due to grades. Neither was Akial Byers Defensive playerof the year and still no offer from Bielema due to failing grades.

Chase Hayden

Devwah Whaley (gonna run Boyd in the ground playing him almost entire game)

Nick Starkel had more reps and better camp and sadly still may not keep the starting job due to loyalty factor with Hicks

A few others that will not get the PT.
I donít want to here about them not buying into the new system or not being talented. Itís not true!

There are several teams playing with rosters full of freshman and they are winning games. If you donít mix a good amount of experience with these young players to bring them along and solid play calling you can forget it. You can have all the talent in the world and still have a losing program.

Man, where do we start.

You want Hayden and Whaley getting reps OVER Boyd?  Yeah right. 

Look what happened when Jackson got healthy, he got reps and catches last weekend. 

Hammonds is suspended. 

How do you know starkel got MORE reps in fall camp?  Iíll agree it seems hicks got the nod because of known/security.   But to say more reps, man you keep digging in the barrel for something to support your false claims. 

I have no clue on porter.  Not a single input there.  Byers we couldnít afford to take the flyer on to wait and see if he would qualify, but again you are scraping the barrel by now searching for kids who left the state to play. 
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Keciap

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2019, 08:46:31 pm »

Man, where do we start.

You want Hayden and Whaley getting reps OVER Boyd?  Yeah right. 

Look what happened when Jackson got healthy, he got reps and catches last weekend. 

Hammonds is suspended. 

How do you know starkel got MORE reps in fall camp?  Iíll agree it seems hicks got the nod because of known/security.   But to say more reps, man you keep digging in the barrel for something to support your false claims. 

I have no clue on porter.  Not a single input there.  Byers we couldnít afford to take the flyer on to wait and see if he would qualify, but again you are scraping the barrel by now searching for kids who left the state to play.

I never said reps over Boyd. I clearly said you canít run this young man the way they are playing him without it taking a toll on him before season en.

T.J. Hammonds made big plays and would be put right back on the bench.
Iíve talked to people and Porter did have a good camp but isnít getting the opportunity.
Koilan again benched until end of the game and played last minute of game and scored.
Most people are looking at stars which is sad.

I am not at liberty to truly speak on things. I will say this they can recruit as many 4-5 stars but without the right key staff in place you can forget it. 
I like sooo many people are saying the same thing. Not just me. This includes donors to the program.
I will be there tomorrow cheering for the Hogs but if something doesnít change tomorrow itís gonna be a long season.
Not interested in hearing itís a young team because it doesnít have to be a freshman led team. Several other teams are 50% or more freshman but they are winning.
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southeasthog

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2019, 09:00:31 pm »



I am not at liberty to truly speak on things.

So another brand new poster with connections. AWESOME!


I like sooo many people are saying the same thing. Not just me. This includes donors to the program.

Donors huh? Iím a donor. Does what I say count?

I will be there tomorrow cheering for the Hogs but if something doesnít change tomorrow itís gonna be a long season.

What if we win? Do things still have to change?


I bet you were banned recently.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Lost upper classmen
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2019, 09:48:18 pm »

I never said reps over Boyd. I clearly said you canít run this young man the way they are playing him without it taking a toll on him before season en.

T.J. Hammonds made big plays and would be put right back on the bench.
Iíve talked to people and Porter did have a good camp but isnít getting the opportunity.
Koilan again benched until end of the game and played last minute of game and scored.
Most people are looking at stars which is sad.

I am not at liberty to truly speak on things. I will say this they can recruit as many 4-5 stars but without the right key staff in place you can forget it. 
I like sooo many people are saying the same thing. Not just me. This includes donors to the program.
I will be there tomorrow cheering for the Hogs but if something doesnít change tomorrow itís gonna be a long season.
Not interested in hearing itís a young team because it doesnít have to be a freshman led team. Several other teams are 50% or more freshman but they are winning.

Man you just made excuses for why our backups are all better than starters

Boyd has 17 carries last game. That is right in line with a power back with a likely nfl future. 

You just have an agenda
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