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Author Topic: Decade of ignorance, incompetence  (Read 9601 times)

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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #300 on: July 10, 2019, 06:51:28 pm »

Long knew about the affair when Dorrell was hired and he signed off on her hiring anyway. Without his signature, she would not have gotten the job.


You don't know that and state it as fact. Long had to sign off on any athletic hire. Do you think he was questioning when Robert hired his brother 2 times? Those "signatures" are technicalities and you have no idea if Long knew or didn't. Petrino ran the program. Now you can say Long's lack of oversight was an issue and I'd agree. Although I'd suspect that is true for most successful football programs. I'm sure the AD at alabama would sign off on whoever Saban wanted to hire no questions asked.

You can speculate, but you can't state it as fact.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 07:06:50 pm by rhames »
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #301 on: July 10, 2019, 08:55:39 pm »


You don't know that and state it as fact. Long had to sign off on any athletic hire. Do you think he was questioning when Robert hired his brother 2 times? Those "signatures" are technicalities and you have no idea if Long knew or didn't. Petrino ran the program. Now you can say Long's lack of oversight was an issue and I'd agree. Although I'd suspect that is true for most successful football programs. I'm sure the AD at alabama would sign off on whoever Saban wanted to hire no questions asked.

You can speculate, but you can't state it as fact.

Just my opinion, but I think Long knew what was going on with those two all along, and may have even voiced his concern to BP behind closed doors without forcing any action. You don't shoot the "golden goose" (of the time). That would explain why Petrino's first call after the accident wasn't to Long, but an attempt to cover it up. It would also explain why he continued the lie and even during a national presser. He figured he could get away with it and that Long would back him given his success and the fact that Long hadn't intervened before the fact. Surprise! Long took the side of the University, the side that would absolve Long of any responsibility.

I still think that bottom line, if Petrino had called Long first and cried "mea culpa", Long would have found a way to manage the situation and keep Petrino. He was his "golden goose that laid the golden egg" that helped drive ticket sales and donations that helped build the expansion. He may have hated trying to manage Petrino, but Petrino was the big dog that brought a lot of success to Arkansas. I can't imagine that if he had any other choice (before the national presser) that he wouldn't have found a way to keep BP. But that's just my opinion.
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hawgon

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #302 on: July 10, 2019, 09:00:23 pm »

Jeff Long is a dork who thinks he is smarter than everyone else.  That is a piss poor combination and he will be fired at Kansas just like he was at Arkansas after fricking up their golden goose, or at least doing his damndest to.

That is all you need to know about the man and it explains pretty much everything that was wrong over the last decade.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #303 on: July 10, 2019, 09:00:30 pm »


You don't know that and state it as fact. Long had to sign off on any athletic hire. Do you think he was questioning when Robert hired his brother 2 times? Those "signatures" are technicalities and you have no idea if Long knew or didn't. Petrino ran the program. Now you can say Long's lack of oversight was an issue and I'd agree. Although I'd suspect that is true for most successful football programs. I'm sure the AD at Alabama would sign off on whoever Saban wanted to hire no questions asked.

You can speculate, but you can't state it as fact.
Since we're speculating and Ba ma is drawn in. How do you think the Bama AD would have handled the exact same situation. The Ba ma fanbase? Old Nicky has a babe, got her hired, went full on retard, has an incident,lies to AD gets cocky, who do you think goes? Fair question. Say LSU? We know what Florida did with Meyer, heck he bought her a home. It was Bowdens wife making the calls at Auburn not the school.
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #304 on: July 10, 2019, 09:21:32 pm »

Since we're speculating and Ba ma is drawn in. How do you think the Bama AD would have handled the exact same situation. The Ba ma fanbase? Old Nicky has a babe, got her hired, went full on retard, has an incident,lies to AD gets cocky, who do you think goes? Fair question. Say LSU? We know what Florida did with Meyer, heck he bought her a home. It was Bowdens wife making the calls at Auburn not the school.

You can play this hypothetical game all you want but you don't know either, because nothing that outrageous has happened at those schools.

And I'm totally unfamiliar with the Urban thing.
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avatar

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #305 on: July 10, 2019, 09:22:41 pm »

Are we there yet ???
Nope. Still stuck in that damn ditch.

Glad I hit the D instead of the B
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #306 on: July 10, 2019, 09:22:44 pm »

Just my opinion, but I think Long knew what was going on with those two all along, and may have even voiced his concern to BP behind closed doors without forcing any action. You don't shoot the "golden goose" (of the time). That would explain why Petrino's first call after the accident wasn't to Long, but an attempt to cover it up. It would also explain why he continued the lie and even during a national presser. He figured he could get away with it and that Long would back him given his success and the fact that Long hadn't intervened before the fact. Surprise! Long took the side of the University, the side that would absolve Long of any responsibility.

I still think that bottom line, if Petrino had called Long first and cried "mea culpa", Long would have found a way to manage the situation and keep Petrino. He was his "golden goose that laid the golden egg" that helped drive ticket sales and donations that helped build the expansion. He may have hated trying to manage Petrino, but Petrino was the big dog that brought a lot of success to Arkansas. I can't imagine that if he had any other choice (before the national presser) that he wouldn't have found a way to keep BP. But that's just my opinion.

Obviously it's all opinion. I, too, think if he would have called long maybe he doesn't get fired. The fact that he didn't at least tells me Robert didn't think Long knew.
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GroŖer Kriegschwein

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #307 on: July 10, 2019, 09:53:32 pm »

What?  There is a Bert faction?

Yeah. I was a member for a few seasons.

Took eating chef salads with olive oil vinegarette and drinking michelob ultra to unbrainwash me.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #308 on: July 10, 2019, 10:37:15 pm »

You can play this hypothetical game all you want but you don't know either, because nothing that outrageous has happened at those schools.

And I'm totally unfamiliar with the Urban thing.
To repeat your answer to me this morning. You didn't answer my question.
Not with Saban but Dubose was caught with a young Secretary but dismissed for coaching I expect.
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wachhog

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #309 on: July 10, 2019, 10:53:32 pm »

I'll give you that one. No one is saying Bobby didn't screw up royally by having that affair because he did. My issues is with those who say that Bobby was totally at fault for the demise of the U of A football program and no one else had anything to do with it. That is pure unadulterated BS. I am sick and tired of some saying that Jeff Long was perfect and did no wrong.
I agree with you again.
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wachhog

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #310 on: July 10, 2019, 10:56:43 pm »

Oh for Pete's sake Guv. Have you been living in a cocoon since the wreck in a ditch?

I get so tired of this b.s being spread around over the years. Had BP fessed up and made his first call to Long and provided an opportunity for the University to provide damage control, he would never have been let go...had he agreed to what needed to happen going forward.

BP tried to lie his way out of the situation instead of allowing damage control to take place and after embarrassing the University with a national press conference where he continued to lie, he decided his own fate. All he had to do was allow the AD and the University to manage the situation, but that isn't what he chose.

BP didn't build a team of people who would have had his back. He thought that he was bigger than that. He found out he was wrong and when he needed people to have his back, he had already taken a "pee" on them and they deserted him...as they should have.
It seems like you rejoice in what happened with Petrine. Like it gives you endless chances to get on your high horse and preach morality to the rest of us. I really dislike goodie two shoes like that.
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pigzwillrise

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #311 on: July 10, 2019, 10:56:52 pm »

Jeff Long Gone
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wachhog

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #312 on: July 10, 2019, 11:37:26 pm »

But he was directly asked the Question. Said No and that is a lie. Albeit a different arena. A lie is a lie. Puts you in a position to tell 10 to get out of 1.
There are no degrees in lieing. There's the truth and theres not. Yes some situations are silly, Your wife " do these jeans make my rear look huge? "   "Well no honey," they are just great!  Later at the party your drunk friend tells you your wifes putting on a few ain't she. See that lie will always come back to you. I don't know if saying, Honey all your clothes look small these days is the right way to go but heck I've had 3 wives so I obviously did some bad lieing. How bout issues. The money issue or probability for the loss of millions had to be in the reason for lieing mix for both Bob and Jeff right? Since your mentioning variables and good reasons for lieing? I disagree, all lies and scenarios are equal. That's really the only leg Long has to stand on here.
Preach it, brother, preach it! All the rest of us be sinners but you, oh holy one.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #313 on: July 11, 2019, 05:37:04 am »

It seems like you rejoice in what happened with Petrine. Like it gives you endless chances to get on your high horse and preach morality to the rest of us. I really dislike goodie two shoes like that.

Ridiculous
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #314 on: July 11, 2019, 06:14:06 am »

To repeat your answer to me this morning. You didn't answer my question.
Not with Saban but Dubose was caught with a young Secretary but dismissed for coaching I expect.


My question was based on things that actually happened. You are trying to say "well what about school x and what would they do"

Dubose was fired. So I'm still curious as to what point you're trying to make?


Neither of us know because nothing like the Petrino situation  has ever happened at one of those schools.  It's a pointless discussion and a weak deflection.
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LZH

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #315 on: July 11, 2019, 06:45:14 am »

Bobby's playing footsie goes back years....surprised he got away with it as long as he did.

He left his family at the lake to go on this excursion (poor Becky and the kids).  And it goes without saying he should have never had a young blonde on that Harley, and was stupid to pull over (unless he was 'eased' off the road by a pickup truck - hey, learn to ride Bob....pickups can't keep up with motorcycles).

This, btw, didn't happen on the dark side of the moon....there were witnesses.

His first phone call should have immediately been to Jeff Long.  Let's not fool ourselves....JL knew what was happening ('how do we handle this'?).  It's part of his job to keep up.  The fact that Bobby didn't, imo, pissed JL off as much as anything.

Long may not have wanted him, but regardless, Bobby was his cash cow.  A long serious sit-down should have happened ASAFP.

Bobby called a presser out of the blue, which was just as stupid as the ride itself.  Vicodin usually doesn't lead to split-second great ideas.  He would have come off better if he had Jessica's butt right in his face at the podium instead of that silly image of all the bark knocked off his head, and that neck brace was hilarious.

He did back JL into a corner by then, and should have taken the medicine offered to him (or at least tried to negotiate some middle ground).  His refusal to do so did him in.  Because by that time, JL was trying to save his own ass....Bobby was on his own.

Jeff's alligator tears at his presser when he fired Bobby were probably real, at least in some fashion.  He knew his long term career was in the balance, and decided to play the head honcho administrator because hiring a top ten coach (at Arkansas) wasn't his forte and he knew it.  But frankly, by then he had little choice but to let him go.

I used to like Jeff Long.  He's very smart and quite personable.  But I used to like Bobby, too.  Millionaire coaches have girlfriends.  It's almost always tolerated (even by the wives).  I'm not still pissed at Bobby for having one, I'm still pissed that he actually thought he could weasel his way out of the whole mess.
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jkstock04

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #316 on: July 11, 2019, 06:48:38 am »


My question was based on things that actually happened. You are trying to say "well what about school x and what would they do"

Dubose was fired. So I'm still curious as to what point you're trying to make?


Neither of us know because nothing like the Petrino situation  has ever happened at one of those schools.  It's a pointless discussion and a weak deflection.
You wouldn't know what has or hasn't happened at other schools if they covered it up and swept it under the rug, which in my opinion they would have at schools that put winning as the premium goal. Only thing you may hear are rumors maybe like with Urban or Pete Carroll.

Anyone who thinks Bama would fire Saban for similar circumstances to what Petrino was fired here for is certifiably insane....which is probably 50% of Hogville.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #317 on: July 11, 2019, 06:49:46 am »

Guv, you're totally inept when it comes to discussing this brother. You're pretty much a laughing stock on this message board.
Especially when it comes to this topic.  For some reason, he cannot get his head wrapped around it.

That's because I refuse to bow down and kiss Jeff Long's backside like some of you do.
Literally no one does this.  All most are saying is that this situation is COMPLETELY on BP.  But for his actions, none of the follow-on actions would have happened.  You cannot screw up this bad, lie to everyone, including your boss and the national media, and then expect people to be like...awww poor Bobby fell of his bike.
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LZH

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #318 on: July 11, 2019, 06:55:18 am »

Especially when it comes to this topic.  For some reason, he cannot get his head wrapped around it

He tries, though, bless his heart.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #319 on: July 11, 2019, 07:00:23 am »

If you think there's a difference between one bold faced lie and another then your probably right.A lie is a lie. Whether you want to admit it or not the one Jeff told is a whopper.
That is a fallacy...  All lies are not the same, just like all killings are not the same.  There are carrying levels of right and wrong to everything.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #320 on: July 11, 2019, 07:03:00 am »


You don't know that and state it as fact. Long had to sign off on any athletic hire. Do you think he was questioning when Robert hired his brother 2 times? Those "signatures" are technicalities and you have no idea if Long knew or didn't. Petrino ran the program. Now you can say Long's lack of oversight was an issue and I'd agree. Although I'd suspect that is true for most successful football programs. I'm sure the AD at alabama would sign off on whoever Saban wanted to hire no questions asked.

You can speculate, but you can't state it as fact.
Guv is great at stating rumors as fact.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #321 on: July 11, 2019, 07:06:23 am »

Obviously it's all opinion. I, too, think if he would have called long maybe he doesn't get fired. The fact that he didn't at least tells me Robert didn't think Long knew.
I think we all agree that if BP would have talked to Long, been up front and gotten him on his side at the beginning, we would not be talking about this today.  That is not what he chose to do though and by making the snake choice, he forced the issue.
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Superhog1959

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #322 on: July 11, 2019, 07:06:31 am »

Obviously it's all opinion. I, too, think if he would have called long maybe he doesn't get fired. The fact that he didn't at least tells me Robert didn't think Long knew.
That makes sense.

I don't know any inside details. But from what I have seen, can make some judgments.
Bobby is a self destructor. Did it before being here, did it while he was here, and did it after.
I started disliking BP when he had the meltdown on national TV (read my lips) against LSU with Les.
I don't think Long knew. And the fact that he didn't, tells us something about him.
Maybe he's to trusting. It was his job to know what's going on.
That leads us to BB. If Long would have done his homework. He wouldn't have hired him. Long was not doing his job.
Bottom line is we the fans have suffered for this gross neglect.
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ricepig

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #323 on: July 11, 2019, 07:15:23 am »

Are we there yet ???

Nope, this is just the thread of ignorance and incompetence, more to come later......
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #324 on: July 11, 2019, 07:42:16 am »

You wouldn't know what has or hasn't happened at other schools if they covered it up and swept it under the rug, which in my opinion they would have at schools that put winning as the premium goal. Only thing you may hear are rumors maybe like with Urban or Pete Carroll.

Anyone who thinks Bama would fire Saban for similar circumstances to what Petrino was fired here for is certifiably insane....which is probably 50% of Hogville.

pretty hard to cover up anywhere once the Police report was FOI'ed. Robert thought his trooper would cover for him more than long.


Again hypothetical arguments are weak. And your take on bama and Saban is irrelevant because Saban isn't that stupid.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #325 on: July 11, 2019, 07:53:58 am »

You wouldn't know what has or hasn't happened at other schools if they covered it up and swept it under the rug, which in my opinion they would have at schools that put winning as the premium goal. Only thing you may hear are rumors maybe like with Urban or Pete Carroll.

Anyone who thinks Bama would fire Saban for similar circumstances to what Petrino was fired here for is certifiably insane....which is probably 50% of Hogville.
You can't cover it up when the HC is stupid enough to get in front of a camera and talk to the national media.  Especially when much of the country already thinks that coach is a dirtbag due to Auburn, Louisville, Atlanta shadiness.  Bama and Florida win National championships, Bobby loses the Sugar Bowl...when you do more, people are willing to overlook more
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hawgon

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #326 on: July 11, 2019, 08:57:22 am »

A lot of you misremember stuff to suit your own purposes.  Petrino didnít jump out there and call a press conference.  It was his normally scheduled press conference after the dayís practice session.  He didnít jump out there and make false claims, he was literally asked if he was alone on the bike after the press conference on his way out the door.

Petrino never gets any credit here or anywhere else for how he dealt with things in a pretty forthright manner, after it all happened.  After the story broke, he had a meeting with Long and released a pretty damning and contrite statement.  Then he stayed quiet during the week that Long ďinvestigatedĒ and he stayed quiet after he was fired and Long took victory laps all over the national media basking in the glory of having slain the career of the evil and unethical Petrino.

He doesnít get any credit for that.  What he could have done and had he done was take his lawyer into that first meeting with Long.  He should have denied any impropriety and he should have threatened to burn the place to the ground, including the naming of names, showing where the bodies were buried, and an all out fighting of any attempt to fire him for cause.  He should have had his lawyer aggressively make public statements protesting his innocence and disparaging the administration.  He should have had friends and associates leak juicy details to the media and so on and so forth.

Urban Meyer did that through several scandals bigger than getting caught with a little side piece.  And he went from high profile job to higher profile job and weathered countless storms and eventually, retired on his own terms.  He now has a podcast on leadership.

But everyone around here acts like Petrino was the worst scum to ever walk the sidelines.
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hawgon

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #327 on: July 11, 2019, 09:10:57 am »

All Bobby Petrino has to say to have burned this whole darned thing to the ground was simply a version pretty close to this:

ďWhen this happened, just about the first call I made was to Jeff Long.  We determined to keep it as quiet as we could.  I didnít want to go to the press conference after the dayís practice session, but Jeff Long advised that I should as that it would look suspicious if I didnít.  After the story began to break, Jeff and I met and it was determined that it would be best for me to release a statement admitting to the affair and that he would smooth things over and there might be a short suspension.  Jeff Long then went back on his word and fired me.  I had been having the affair for several months.  Jeff Long knew about it and was fully onboard with hiring the young lady to work closely with me.  He even signed a waiver allowing us to bypass the normal process to do it.Ē

Imagine if Petrino had said that.  And he easily could have because it would have been believable and it would have been nothing more than his side of two person conversations.  Long, of course, could have denied it all, but it definitely would have tarnished him and probably have gotten some light down into to places he wouldnít have liked.
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liljo

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #328 on: July 11, 2019, 09:16:38 am »



But everyone around here acts like Petrino was the worst scum to ever walk the sidelines.
No, not everyone.

But Bobby DID deserve to be fired. No matter how things were handled, no matter what else happened, he DESERVED to be fired. Had to be fired. All those coaches that "get away with" similar or even worse--ALL of them DESERVE to be fired. Not just coaches. People in many walks of public life that are in positions where they are very highly paid--part of the deal is representation of their employer.

It really comes down to this. People get angry when a guy who THEY like gets what he deserves, but others don't.

Bobby Petrino was a 51-year old highly paid professional. He had an excellent job, and was brilliant at what he did. But he lacked the character to control himself, played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize.

That doesn't make Jeff Long right. I NEVER liked Long--just always thought he was wrong for Arkansas, but he did accomplish a lot while here. I do think he was a scumbag for using the Petrino situation to further advance his "Mr Clean" image, but Petrino had to be fired. I also think that was the product of several people at the top, trying to spin things to where it appears, "At Arkansas, we don't condone things such as this. We actually DO something about them." Which is in sharp contrast to many other places, as you allude to.

You bring up Urban Myer--and you could bring up dozens of other coaches that did as bad or worse than Bobby but paid little consequences. That doesn't do One Single Thing to excuse Bobby Petrino. Two wrongs have never made a right.
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hawgon

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #329 on: July 11, 2019, 09:19:11 am »


You bring up Urban Myer--and you could bring up dozens of other coaches that did as bad or worse than Bobby but paid little consequences. That doesn't do One Single Thing to excuse Bobby Petrino. Two wrongs have never made a right.

And, here is Exhibit ďAĒ of why Arkansas is a perennial bottom feeder.

We want Sunday school teachers instead of Alpha male football coaches.
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #330 on: July 11, 2019, 09:24:07 am »

It seems like you rejoice in what happened with Petrine. Like it gives you endless chances to get on your high horse and preach morality to the rest of us. I really dislike goodie two shoes like that.


I do not rejoice in what happened with Petrino, but not surprised.

As I stated before, in my opinion, his character and history indicated to me that it was just a matter of time until he embarrassed the University.

As for as recruiting goes, In my opinion, it was headed down hill because of his foul mouth and in your face attitude. Many kids and their parents did not like him.

Was he the cause for where we are now, NO.  But, in my opinion, it began with his hire.
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liljo

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #331 on: July 11, 2019, 09:26:14 am »

And, here is Exhibit ďAĒ of why Arkansas is a perennial bottom feeder.

We want Sunday school teachers instead of Alpha male football coaches.

You've accepted a total falsehood. You've redefined completely what being a real man is. Coaches don't have to be Sunday School teachers, but they better dang sure be smart enough to know there can be consequences for seedy action. Alpha males, huh? You think we should just pay 'em millions of dollars and provide 'em with a harem of STUDENTS?
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #332 on: July 11, 2019, 09:31:46 am »

And, here is Exhibit ďAĒ of why Arkansas is a perennial bottom feeder.

We want Sunday school teachers instead of Alpha male football coaches.

So what is wrong with Sunday School teachers?
A coach does not have to be a complete ass to be a great coach.
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liljo

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #333 on: July 11, 2019, 09:33:15 am »

So what is wrong with Sunday School teachers?
A coach does not have to be a complete ass to be a great coach.
Man, you are so right.
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Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #334 on: July 11, 2019, 09:42:38 am »


I do not rejoice in what happened with Petrino, but not surprised.

As I stated before, in my opinion, his character and history indicated to me that it was just a matter of time until he embarrassed the University.

As for as recruiting goes, In my opinion, it was headed down hill because of his foul mouth and in your face attitude. Many kids and their parents did not like him.

Was he the cause for where we are now, NO.  But, in my opinion, it began with his hire.

The last sentence ruined the potential of the rest of your post sir.  Without the Petrine hire going down hill  wouldnít have been an option.  He brought the most success and expectations we had had in quite some time.
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #335 on: July 11, 2019, 09:46:44 am »

The last sentence ruined the potential of the rest of your post sir.  Without the Petrine hire going down hill  wouldnít have been an option.  He brought the most success and expectations we had had in quite some time.

I agree with your last sentence, but the same might be said about Nutt's first year.
Does not change my opinion that both were bad hires and bad for the program.
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jkstock04

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #336 on: July 11, 2019, 09:48:18 am »

pretty hard to cover up anywhere once the Police report was FOI'ed. Robert thought his trooper would cover for him more than long.


Again hypothetical arguments are weak. And your take on bama and Saban is irrelevant because Saban isn't that stupid.
It's not weak or irrelevant.... Alabama isn't going to fire Nick Saban for screwing an employee and lying to the AD about it. Covered up or not that's not going to happen.

Arkansas is the only school in the SEC or perhaps the entire country that would opt from where we were then to where we are now in the name of "doing it the right way."
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PonderinHog

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #337 on: July 11, 2019, 09:52:39 am »

So what is wrong with Sunday School teachers?
A coach does not have to be a complete ass to be a great coach.
Really ???




Coulda fooled me!
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #338 on: July 11, 2019, 09:59:54 am »

There seems to be an attitude of "Win at any cost" among some posters.
I reject that attitude.
I hate to lose--Hate it, hate it, hate it.
But this is about more than satisfying the fan base.
We are talking about the tremendous influence these coaches have on the life of young men at a very critical time in their life.
I still believe that BOTH can be accomplished with the right people in place.
Hopefully we are on the right path with this stalf.
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #339 on: July 11, 2019, 10:02:51 am »

It's not weak or irrelevant.... Alabama isn't going to fire Nick Saban for screwing an employee and lying to the AD about it. Covered up or not that's not going to happen.

Arkansas is the only school in the SEC or perhaps the entire country that would opt from where we were then to where we are now in the name of "doing it the right way."

Its extremely weak. You didn't even include all the reasons that Petrino got fired for.


You don't know one way or the other if Saban had a scandal of equal magnitude as Petrino what they would do.  Nor do I. And its completely irrelevant.

Also comparing what Saban has done at Bama and Robert at Arkansas is a reach.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #340 on: July 11, 2019, 10:05:55 am »

 ;
Preach it, brother, preach it! All the rest of us be sinners but you, oh holy one.
I will keep preachin it! You only got one thing wrong. I know I'm a sinner and just work at not finding exceptions that allow me to lie all the time. Yes brother I'm imperfect in many ways. Its just that in some areas like this "lieing is OK dependent on the circumstances" thingy is not cool. JMO though.  Keep up the the behavior if its workin for ya 8)
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Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #341 on: July 11, 2019, 10:18:04 am »

There seems to be an attitude of "Win at any cost" among some posters.
I reject that attitude.
I hate to lose--Hate it, hate it, hate it.
But this is about more than satisfying the fan base.
We are talking about the tremendous influence these coaches have on the life of young men at a very critical time in their life.
I still believe that BOTH can be accomplished with the right people in place.
Hopefully we are on the right path with this stalf.


Perhaps youíre right and both can be accomplished.  Iím not saying that there arenít some super successful programs where the coaches are good people.  Iím sure there are some.  I am almost certain every big program has a bag man.  The Bama, USC, Texas etc etc bag men have more cash in their bag, and are really good at covering their trail. Some even get caught.

Joe Paterno who I always looked up to as the epitome of class, and look what happened on his watch.

Baylor look at what happened there.


I feel like the days of coaching staffs in college molding young men are over.  Many of these players are held to no standard in high school.  Donít do their own work, get away with any and every thing they want and are NEVER held accountable.  Why would they do anything different when they get to college?

Big time college football is the minor league of the NFL.  So many donít make it to the pros, donít earn their degree, and when they do real jobs donít work for them because they didnít learn anything.  Itís about the equivalent of the aspiring actress getting spit out (no pun) of the bottom of the porn industry.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #342 on: July 11, 2019, 10:18:10 am »


My question was based on things that actually happened. You are trying to say "well what about school x and what would they do"

Dubose was fired. So I'm still curious as to what point you're trying to make?


Neither of us know because nothing like the Petrino situation  has ever happened at one of those schools.  It's a pointless discussion and a weak deflection.
I don't see how its a weak deflection. Maybe I didn't explain thorough enough thou,my point. What happened at our school happens everywhere, Petino Baxetball, Bowden-Auburn, Dubose-Bama, I ain't spending my morning researching a list or moral breakdowns in the college ranks, These are just a few that were fairly publicized in my adulthood. Couple of unsubstantiated ones I heard of were, the Meyer at Fla. thing. Close friend and small booster there told me a year before Meyer" started having  health problems and needed to get out for a while that he was in a scandal involving a woman and a house bought for her or made available to her and for his marriage sake he left Florida, similar to the Nutt-newscaster thingy. So my point was that if this is not a once in a lifetime incident at the UofA that is rare and unheard of, will you deflect or answer the Question, Do you think the Bama's of the world's AD would have handled it the route we went? There now its down to a simple yes or no for ya.
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #343 on: July 11, 2019, 10:19:06 am »

Really ???




Coulda fooled me!

I really hope you are not right.

If this is what it will take to be competitive, I will just have to walk away and spend the last years of my life remembering the old days.
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #344 on: July 11, 2019, 10:22:18 am »

I don't see how its a weak deflection. Maybe I didn't explain thorough enough thou,my point. What happened at our school happens everywhere, Petino Baxetball, Bowden-Auburn, Dubose-Bama, I ain't spending my morning researching a list or moral breakdowns in the college ranks, These are just a few that were fairly publicized in my adulthood. Couple of unsubstantiated ones I heard of were, the Meyer at Fla. thing. Close friend and small booster there told me a year before Meyer" started having  health problems and needed to get out for a while that he was in a scandal involving a woman and a house bought for her or made available to her and for his marriage sake he left Florida, similar to the Nutt-newscaster thingy. So my point was that if this is not a once in a lifetime incident at the UofA that is rare and unheard of, will you deflect or answer the Question, Do you think the Bama's of the world's AD would have handled it the route we went? There now its down to a simple yes or no for ya.


No one is denying coaches, or anyone in any other profession, don't mess around on their spouse. The optics of the situation and what actually happened are more than that. I don't know how much more anyone can explain that.



I don't know what Bama's AD would do in similar circumstances. You don't either. It's a weak deflection.
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3Scoreand10

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #345 on: July 11, 2019, 10:27:08 am »

Perhaps youíre right and both can be accomplished.  Iím not saying that there arenít some super successful programs where the coaches are good people.  Iím sure there are some.  I am almost certain every big program has a bag man.  The Bama, USC, Texas etc etc bag men have more cash in their bag, and are really good at covering their trail. Some even get caught.

Joe Paterno who I always looked up to as the epitome of class, and look what happened on his watch.

Baylor look at what happened there.


I feel like the days of coaching staffs in college molding young men are over.  Many of these players are held to no standard in high school.  Donít do their own work, get away with any and every thing they want and are NEVER held accountable.  Why would they do anything different when they get to college?

Big time college football is the minor league of the NFL.  So many donít make it to the pros, donít earn their degree, and when they do real jobs donít work for them because they didnít learn anything.  Itís about the equivalent of the aspiring actress getting spit out (no pun) of the bottom of the porn industry.

I refuse to stop hoping that things will and can get better if we just do it the right way.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #346 on: July 11, 2019, 10:33:13 am »


No one is denying coaches, or anyone in any other profession, don't mess around on their spouse. The optics of the situation and what actually happened are more than that. I don't know how much more anyone can explain that.



I don't know what Bama's AD would do in similar circumstances. You don't either. It's a weak deflection.

I just saw your post acknowledging this. Sorry I didn't keep up. And to the above Sunday school teachers comments. Your right.There's no way, in todays environment of money and sports that the both can be done without being outed"Hugh Freeze", "Gus Malzahn" as a fraud. The word hypocrite don't even fit some of these cats. Makes you want to quit supporting the game. Heck I haven't watched an NFL game in 3 years, NBA in 5 years. I've just been a college football junkie for so long that's its hard to let go. There are lots of great posts for both sides here where both have valid arguments.
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jkstock04

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #347 on: July 11, 2019, 10:37:01 am »

Its extremely weak. You didn't even include all the reasons that Petrino got fired for.


You don't know one way or the other if Saban had a scandal of equal magnitude as Petrino what they would do.  Nor do I. And its completely irrelevant.

Also comparing what Saban has done at Bama and Robert at Arkansas is a reach.
Completely irrelevant lol OK. So comparison to other SEC programs is completely irrelevant. I do agree it's hypothetical...but not irrelevant.

Forget about Saban for a second...is your contention that all other schools that are in the top 10 on a regular basis fire their coach in a similar situation with no NCAA infractions?
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rhames

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #348 on: July 11, 2019, 10:41:06 am »

Completely irrelevant lol OK. So comparison to other SEC programs is completely irrelevant. I do agree it's hypothetical...but not irrelevant.

Forget about Saban for a second...is your contention that all other schools that are in the top 10 on a regular basis fire their coach in a similar situation with no NCAA infractions?

I don't know. Neither do you. That's why it is irrelevant. it's a silly argument that whatever one's point is, could go on and on since we don't have anything to compare it to.

Classic "well what about ...." but with less substance.
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Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson

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Re: Decade of ignorance, incompetence
« Reply #349 on: July 11, 2019, 10:42:22 am »

I refuse to stop hoping that things will and can get better if we just do it the right way.



I hear ya brother. Unfortunately I think things are so far gone in society that things may never recover.  So many children get no discipline at home.  Teachers now have virtually no authority at school. Just look at how police officers are treated on a daily basis.

My son is 8 and has been in the middle of 3 fights this week alone at his summer program.  His involvement has been solely taking up for his little friend who gets smacked around.  This is my fault because I have always told him he could defend himself or try to protect someone else that canít defend themselves.  So I got into the middle of it yesterday.  After much digging it turns out that the kid getting picked on starts it almost every day with his smart ass mouth.  I was sitting with my kid, the smart mouth kid, and another talking about it.  Smart mouth kids dad showed up to get him.  After he hears the story he says to me.  Iím thankful that Mikey is here to protect my son.  Needless to say he and I had a private conversation.

Boring story to say. That father instead of addressing the problems his child was causing decided to thank my son for not letting his get his ass kicked.  Guess what.  I told my son.  That boy is on his own if he starts a fight.  Keep your mouth shut and your hands off everyone. 
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