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Author Topic: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?  (Read 1287 times)

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Sweet Feet

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Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« on: June 14, 2019, 03:38:01 am »

Is it time for Arkansas to start cheating just a tad? It's always complaints and accusations about the other schools doing it and hindering others that play by the rules. Is it time? Or do you still prefer for it to be done the right way on the football field?
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Al Boarland

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 04:57:06 am »

Every fan base acts the same way. We do it right and everyone else cheats. How did we land players last cycle over the programs everyone says is paying players? Explain that to me.
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hogcards

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2019, 05:43:39 am »

Every school cheats.  Don't think Arkansas doesn't simply because the football program is in bad shape.
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Mike_e

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2019, 05:48:03 am »

Being creative in following the rules is usually the best way to go.

First you are ahead of the curve and second you have plausible deniability should someone gripe too loudly.
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1highhog

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2019, 06:07:18 am »

Don't think that Arkansas is a pure virgin while every other program is a slut.  We're just not doing it good enough.  As for your question about do I prefer we not cheat?  Yes, I never want to cheat at anything.
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ricepig

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2019, 07:15:56 am »

Is it time for Arkansas to start cheating just a tad? It's always complaints and accusations about the other schools doing it and hindering others that play by the rules. Is it time? Or do you still prefer for it to be done the right way on the football field?

What do you think?
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rhames

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2019, 07:17:13 am »

Every school cheats.  Don't think Arkansas doesn't simply because the football program is in bad shape.

This. Some bankrolls are more lucrative than others.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2019, 07:22:38 am »

I am sure our coaches have enough experience in this area and know how to stretch or bend the rules.  But there is no better recruiting tool than winning and putting players into the league.   
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2019, 07:31:55 am »

Is it time for Arkansas to start cheating just a tad? It's always complaints and accusations about the other schools doing it and hindering others that play by the rules. Is it time? Or do you still prefer for it to be done the right way on the football field?

Instead, I think it's time for the NCAA to do it's job. The death penalty needs to make a comeback.
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rzrbaxfan

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2019, 07:36:46 am »

I agree with others that say we already are.  All programs walk a fine line right on the edge of the rules. 

But to the original question, should we go further?  Absolutely not.  Programs that are winning at a high level can cross the line and the NCAA will either turn a blind eye or slap a few wrists.  Programs like ours would be made an example of for doing the same thing.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2019, 07:39:04 am »

Instead, I think it's time for the NCAA to do it's job. The death penalty needs to make a comeback.

I am not so much of the death penalty for the school as I am a 5 year band and huge monetary fines for guilty coaches and administrators.  If you hit the guilty parties in the pocket book it will make them think if it is worth it.  But NCAA has to start investigating all rumors and follow the money. 
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SRV

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2019, 07:40:40 am »

No
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SRV

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 07:43:07 am »

I am not so much of the death penalty for the school as I am a 5 year band and huge monetary fines for guilty coaches and administrators.  If you hit the guilty parties in the pocket book it will make them think if it is worth it.  But NCAA has to start investigating all rumors and follow the money.
I agree in theory, but smart coaches generally insulate themselves from the actual "business" end and the money is usually very difficult to trace.
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carolinahogger

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 07:46:41 am »

I agree in theory, but smart coaches generally insulate themselves from the actual "business" end and the money is usually very difficult to trace.

There is an interesting article about bag men in the SEC floating around out there in the internets.  Anyone who hasn't read it should take a look.

FWIW I am normally a straight arrow but as far as I am concerned it should be OK for players to get a free car and some pocket money.  Most of them will never get a whiff of the NFL, and the injuries that they receive will follow them for the rest of their lives.
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SRV

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 07:57:02 am »

The problem is that system is just not sustainable. You have to at least try to maintain a sense of equal opportunity amongst the programs. Is it flawed? Of course it is. Anything involving people will be.
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Pig’n round

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2019, 08:16:46 am »

No.  To me this is like when the wife asks does this make me look fat. She’s definitely put on a few pounds, but your response is know.  The wife is happy, and your kid is in the background shaking his head at the outright lie.  But is this a lie, no, you said know as in she should know the answer.

Similarly we should skirt the same fine line, and take every liberty available. However, should we outright cheat?  No. Because if you are going to cheat, you have crossed the line and once you do that there is no longer any moral compass or fairness involved.  Then you simply find out who has the biggest bankroll, the most strippers, etc... 
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Cotton

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 08:34:05 am »

We are "cheating" every year, all the time.
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Nashville Fan

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 08:42:43 am »

Normally it isn't the schools that cheat. It's the boosters and the school fails to establish real controls that limits the boosters influence.

With some schools there is an implied stress for a particular player by the head coach, then a staff member, who has contacts with boosters, "accidentally" shares the top 10 prospects. It's usually the Booster who then reaches out to the player. Technically there is no "cheating" by a school.

AR has a foundation that allows donors to contribute tax free to the Razorback cause. I think this over the years stopped a lot of under the table "contributions" along with tighter institutional controls over the player's time. Most players are in summer school, school sponsored weight programs, etc...

Less time for the kids to interact one on one with boosters.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:53:07 am by Nashville Fan »
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Grizzlyfan

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2019, 08:47:31 am »

Apparently the Arkansas' problem is that we only slightly cheat.
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LZH

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 09:19:50 am »

But there is no better recruiting tool than winning and putting players into the league.   

....Which requires sneaking goodies to 5 star high school players and their mamas.
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Hogmatic

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2019, 09:58:44 am »

Instead, I think it's time for the NCAA to do it's job. The death penalty needs to make a comeback.

BINGO

The NCAA is embarrassed by the Basketball scandal but does it make them follow through on this week's threatening actions?  If they do it to Basketball then they will have a hard time explaining why they don't set up shop at many of the SEC campuses.
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Hawgphat

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2019, 01:15:21 pm »

No.  "The others do it" is not a justification for cheating.  The founding spirit and principle of sport demands that the integrity of sporting competition be faithfully maintained. 

If you play a practice round of golf solo, - - and take three strokes off your score at the conclusion of your round, - - with no one the wiser, - - - - YOU KNOW that you cheated, and that you didn't really achieve that score that you recorded on your card.  What's that visual result really worth to you?
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HogbillyinFL

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2019, 02:27:05 pm »

If you ain't cheating...you ain't trying!
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2019, 02:43:27 pm »

Why do you ask, Gus?
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2019, 03:00:08 pm »

Really bad timing for this question given that the NCAA's about to slap down at least six universities for cheating in men's basketball recruiting.
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hawgmasta

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2019, 03:13:16 pm »

I used to balk at that sort of question,

But

Honestly, now it seems like you get away with it. There are hardly any real repercussions and the winning creates more exposure than the punishment can undo. It’s unfortunate that it’s become this way, but it seems if you wanna play with the big boys you gotta start breaking some big rules. Of course this is just my perception; we really don’t know how much a certain staff or school actually cheats.

The question I ask myself though is would I want the season Auburn had if they actually paid Cam Newton? Hell Yes.

Would I want the exposure and winning plus recruits attention that ole miss got? Hell Yes.

Did either school get in enough trouble to deter them or other programs from doing the same? I would say a resounding hell naw.
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Superhog1959

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2019, 04:12:09 pm »

I think all schools bend the rules. Some even out right cheat. But to me the biggest cheaters are the SEC administrators and officials. Protect the chosen ones.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2019, 05:05:45 pm »

I agree in theory, but smart coaches generally insulate themselves from the actual "business" end and the money is usually very difficult to trace.
I agree but I think a good PI can follow the money.  But I think Head Coaches sign a contract that is written that they are responsible for boosters and their assistants.  It is the Home fans who worship winning no matter the cost who do not want THEIR dirty coach fired. 
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UnknownNobody

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2019, 05:11:45 pm »

Really bad timing for this question given that the NCAA's about to slap down at least six universities for cheating in men's basketball recruiting.

Meh...until that actually happens I will stick with the Jerry Tarkanian take

"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they gave Cleveland State two more years probation."
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razorbacker3

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2019, 05:22:34 pm »

Not a single NCAA school cheats. Some coaches do. A lot of zealous donors, fans, and people that like to be seen as having their hands in the athletic dept. do. Most school administrations look the other way. Doesn't matter what the NCAA does, this will never change.


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mckinneyhog5

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2019, 05:24:52 pm »

Almost every school does the $100 handshake. It’s when you have to take care of the whole family including agents. You cross that line you’re bound to get caught.
Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.
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jkstock04

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2019, 07:27:40 am »

I used to balk at that sort of question,

But

Honestly, now it seems like you get away with it. There are hardly any real repercussions and the winning creates more exposure than the punishment can undo. It’s unfortunate that it’s become this way, but it seems if you wanna play with the big boys you gotta start breaking some big rules. Of course this is just my perception; we really don’t know how much a certain staff or school actually cheats.

The question I ask myself though is would I want the season Auburn had if they actually paid Cam Newton? Hell Yes.

Would I want the exposure and winning plus recruits attention that ole miss got? Hell Yes.

Did either school get in enough trouble to deter them or other programs from doing the same? I would say a resounding hell naw.
I look at it this way...take a look at what happened to Ole Miss program vs our program during the integrity years. They got tired of being a punching bag...did something about it...wound up getting caught, and what happened to them? Their program was throughout and is still in better shape than ours.
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hawgmasta

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2019, 11:19:56 am »

I look at it this way...take a look at what happened to Ole Miss program vs our program during the integrity years. They got tired of being a punching bag...did something about it...wound up getting caught, and what happened to them? Their program was throughout and is still in better shape than ours.

Exactly. It’s depressing but unfortunately true. We did it the “right way” and recruited “high integrity” guys, which in turn gave us the worst era of Razorback football. Was it the staff? Was it the players? Who knows.

I do know that talent will beat a high integrity guy every time. Look at Miami back in the day, a team full of “thugs” etc. but they were dang good. Ball don’t lie as the kids say.
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factchecker

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2019, 06:58:11 pm »

I look at it this way...take a look at what happened to Ole Miss program vs our program during the integrity years. They got tired of being a punching bag...did something about it...wound up getting caught, and what happened to them? Their program was throughout and is still in better shape than ours.
No it's not.

They went 1-4 against Bielema and barely beat Morris during his first season here.

They didn't win a conference title or a division title - all that cheating resulted in 0 titles.

They are one of the few programs who have never made it to the SEC championship game and they have a lame duck coach right now.
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factchecker

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2019, 06:59:32 pm »

Exactly. It’s depressing but unfortunately true. We did it the “right way” and recruited “high integrity” guys, which in turn gave us the worst era of Razorback football.
That worst era a Razorback football consistently beat the cheaters from Ole Miss.  Morris will get them back this season.
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jkstock04

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2019, 09:31:30 am »

No it's not.

They went 1-4 against Bielema and barely beat Morris during his first season here.

They didn't win a conference title or a division title - all that cheating resulted in 0 titles.

They are one of the few programs who have never made it to the SEC championship game and they have a lame duck coach right now.
Lol ok. Keep flying that Bielema flag sky high...I remember your posts well how you defended everything til the bitter end.

They also won a BCS bowl and beat Alabama twice. Hold your breath and get back to me when the Hogs accomplish that.
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factchecker

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2019, 01:08:02 pm »

Lol ok. Keep flying that Bielema flag sky high...I remember your posts well how you defended everything til the bitter end.

They also won a BCS bowl and beat Alabama twice. Hold your breath and get back to me when the Hogs accomplish that.
I was using the fact that one of our worst coaches beat them 4 times in a row as a negative.  The fact that they didn't win anything of substance - you don't get champion rings for beating Bama - despite all their cheating is pretty embarrassing.  They couldn't even win the division and make it to the championship game.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 01:20:42 pm by factchecker »
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jkstock04

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2019, 02:06:50 pm »

I was using the fact that one of our worst coaches beat them 4 times in a row as a negative.  The fact that they didn't win anything of substance - you don't get champion rings for beating Bama - despite all their cheating is pretty embarrassing.  They couldn't even win the division and make it to the championship game.
We couldn't win our division in 2010 and 2011 and it'll go down as the glory days for Razorback football for my lifetime. I'm confident we will never be that good again....and that's the best I've ever personally witnessed. What's embarrassing is the Razorbacks football program going on almost a decade now.

I find it comical you cherry picking, making a big deal about them losing to us....but completely downplay beating Alabama twice as if that's no big deal. Things that make you go hmmm.

Supposedly they were gonna get "hammered" and never see the light of day again. Another narrative that bit the dust. What's happened to our football program is equivalent to the death penalty and we "did it the right way." They cheated, had arguably highish success (winning a BCS bowl is no small thing despite what you try and spin), got caught red handed, and the NCAA basically did next to nothing...that's the overall point here. If the NCAA isn't really going to do anything about it...why not? You think we aren't already up against that the majority of the time with other schools anyways? Be nice to level the playing field.
 
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ricepig

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2019, 02:18:57 pm »

What’s stopping some of y’all from buying us some players, have at it.
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factchecker

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2019, 07:13:44 pm »

We couldn't win our division in 2010 and 2011 and it'll go down as the glory days for Razorback football for my lifetime. I'm confident we will never be that good again....and that's the best I've ever personally witnessed. What's embarrassing is the Razorbacks football program going on almost a decade now.

I find it comical you cherry picking, making a big deal about them losing to us....but completely downplay beating Alabama twice as if that's no big deal. Things that make you go hmmm.

Supposedly they were gonna get "hammered" and never see the light of day again. Another narrative that bit the dust. What's happened to our football program is equivalent to the death penalty and we "did it the right way." They cheated, had arguably highish success (winning a BCS bowl is no small thing despite what you try and spin), got caught red handed, and the NCAA basically did next to nothing...that's the overall point here. If the NCAA isn't really going to do anything about it...why not? You think we aren't already up against that the majority of the time with other schools anyways? Be nice to level the playing field.

If it bothers you so bad then get to paying.

What’s stopping some of y’all from buying us some players, have at it.
Majority of these jokers don't donate a dime to the RF but they are all about spending other people's money.
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jkstock04

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2019, 12:06:31 am »

If it bothers you so bad then get to paying.
Majority of these jokers don't donate a dime to the RF but they are all about spending other people's money.
It doesn't bother me so badly...I'm mainly speaking food for thought/hypotheticals in comparisons to other SEC programs. Speaking in specifics on this matter on the internet probably wouldn't be too smart either. Your direct challenge to people on here to do illegal things is noteworthy...not the first time you have done this.

I'll tell you what does bother me 'so badly' is what has happened to the football program over the past few years...and fans like yourself supported it unconditionally in the name of fluffy feel good stories, GPAs, and "prestige" of a high-falutin AD on the playoff selection committee like that was really gonna pay major dividends down the road for the Hogs. All that and more like it really does bother me badly in reflection. Concerning Razorback sports it's something I'll lament til the day I die.

Also...not sure if you are referring specifically to me, but I would put what I've given to the foundation over the past decade against 99% of internet people.
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Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson

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Re: Is it time for Arkansas to start slightly....cheating?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2019, 03:00:15 pm »

Start?  Been at it for decades.  Just not good enough at it.  If you wanna play in the mud get deep in it baby!
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