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Author Topic: Josh Rosen  (Read 389 times)

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HenduHog

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Josh Rosen
« on: April 08, 2019, 03:22:48 pm »

I started thinking (I know-dangerous).

With the Cards seriously thinking about drafting Murray to fit the system, they would deal Rosen away.

Why wouldn't Green Bay consider picking up Rosen? Let him learn under Rodgers like Rodgers learned under Favre.

While Rodgers isn't old (35) he has been injured a lot the last 2 years. Seems it would be a decent deal for the Packers.

Lord knows, the defense up there sucks, so trading for a top notch defensive player might be better.  Still, Rosen seems to be an viable option.

I'll hang up and listen. 
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bennyl08

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Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 06:32:29 pm »

The problem is, it would expensive for any team to take Rosen and it's still cheap for the Cardinals to keep Rosen. Packers just had a bit of a rebuild, so they should probably focus on using their resources to win right now and for the next few years. Sure, if they can give up a 5th and a 6th round draft pick to get Rosen, then yeah, absolutely and obviously they should do that.

However, Rosen was a first round draft pick not even a full year ago. Cards aren't likely to get rid of Rosen for anything less than too much for the Packers to afford if they still want another super bowl with Rodgers. And the cardinals would be stupid to get rid of Rosen for anything less than at least a first and a third round pick if not more.

The only way they give him up for less is if keeping him on the team ends up hurting the team. I.e. a lockerroom cancer. At which point, they have lost their leverage because they can't keep him and nobody is going to want to pay too much for a potential cancer themselves.
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HenduHog

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Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 06:59:48 pm »

I see your points and get it.

I don't think Rosen will be a disruption in the locker room if he stays, but seriously, he has to want to play and not ride the bench behind a guy who is obviously being drafted to be the #1 QB for the foreseeable future.  Not to say GB should be the team, but SOMEONE will.

I'd just like the Packers to start thinking about a replacement for Rodgers when he can't compete anymore. They made the right move when they drafted Rodgers to sit behind Favre. They need to do it again.
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EastexHawg

Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 10:39:48 am »

I think drafting Murray with the #1 pick is an enormous risk.  He's too small to play the position at the NFL level.  He's too short to be a pocket passer and he's not going to be able to run like he did in college.  Michael Vick was nothing more than an average NFL quarterback over the course of his career and he was bigger, faster, and had a stronger arm than Murray. 

I think the Cardinals would have been better off trying to develop Rosen.  Kliff Kingsbury was just hired but is already on his way to his next firing.  Murray will be one of the primary reasons why.
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311Hog

Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 10:45:02 am »

I think drafting Murray with the #1 pick is an enormous risk.  He's too small to play the position at the NFL level.  He's too short to be a pocket passer and he's not going to be able to run like he did in college.  Michael Vick was nothing more than an average NFL quarterback over the course of his career and he was bigger, faster, and had a stronger arm than Murray. 

I think the Cardinals would have been better off trying to develop Rosen.  Kliff Kingsbury was just hired but is already on his way to his next firing.  Murray will be one of the primary reasons why.

Vick was more than avg. and he was way ahead of his time.  This Murray Kliff thing only works if the NFL keeps moving towards this college trend for offense.

And i think the Cards totally failed not getting a boat load of picks for Rosen because now the locker room will have to be a mess with the situation they have now.   Sure the $$ will be good but nothing else will lol.

EastexHawg

Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2019, 10:03:44 am »

Vick was more than avg. and he was way ahead of his time.  This Murray Kliff thing only works if the NFL keeps moving towards this college trend for offense.

And i think the Cards totally failed not getting a boat load of picks for Rosen because now the locker room will have to be a mess with the situation they have now.   Sure the $$ will be good but nothing else will lol.

Vick completed 56% of his passes over his entire career, only once going over 60% for a full season.  He threw for more than 3,000 yards only twice, with 133 TD passes.

I don't think that is above average.  Above average hype, maybe.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 11:21:35 am »

Problem with running qbs in the nfl.  There isnít much of a problem if they are huge like cam newton or dak presscot.  Vick got injured a lot, RG3 got injured a lot. So if you want to be a running QB then you have to be huge. Murray will probably have a couple of great years, but eventually him being small will cost him a long career in the nfl unless he is smart about his running and doesnít take the big hits. I see maybe 5 years for him in the nfl. 
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HenduHog

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Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 08:28:08 pm »

Problem with running qbs in the nfl.  There isnít much of a problem if they are huge like cam newton or dak presscot.  Vick got injured a lot, RG3 got injured a lot. So if you want to be a running QB then you have to be huge. Murray will probably have a couple of great years, but eventually him being small will cost him a long career in the nfl unless he is smart about his running and doesnít take the big hits. I see maybe 5 years for him in the nfl. 

Good points.

I would counter that even if you're big the NFL punishes mobile QBs.   Cam has been injured a lot the last, what, 2,3 years?

I'm less concerned about Murray's height. He's reputed to be 5'11". Drew Brees is 6'0".

There have been mobile QBs.  Many, however were in a time when defensive players weren't as big, fast, and athletic as they are today. Fran Tarkenton just made people look stupid because he was just so much more athletic than the guys chasing him. In today's NFL, he wouldn't stand a chance, IMO.  You have DLinemen who are faster than LBs of his era.
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bennyl08

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Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2019, 02:59:39 pm »

Vick completed 56% of his passes over his entire career, only once going over 60% for a full season.  He threw for more than 3,000 yards only twice, with 133 TD passes.

I don't think that is above average.  Above average hype, maybe.

If you measure him over his career, yeah, he wasn't above average. However, 2010, he ranked 4th in QB rating. Factor in his rushing yards and td's and he was well above average. He kept that from being a one year fluke, following it up with higher volume passing year with the 14th ranked QBR.

For most of his career, nobody was really able to utilize his skill set well. Probably why he was so much better a QB after not even playing for many years simply because offenses were a bit more adaptable to him. Basically, think of what Matt Jones could have done at QB if he came along a decade later.

In short, Vick at his peak was an above average QB, put in less than ideal situations for much of his career which limited him, but then his pocket passing and injury rate in turn limited what he could also give back.

On hogville here, it seems everyone is so enamored with a running qb but they forget that QB's who learn to pass always do better than those who don't. Big Ben, used to be a major scrambler but was never in conversation about being one of the best passers. He stopped running as much and his passing ability exploded. Cam became much better when he stopped running as much. Deshaun Watson in college greatly improved his senior year when his rushing yardage took a significant dip and he focused on his passing. Take Cam Newton vs Andrew Luck. You look at their measurables and you would hardly be able to tell the two apart. Extremeley similar size and athleticism. Racial stereotypes aside, people forget that Luck can be just as prolific a runner as Newton, he simply uses his athleticism to extend the play and try to pass more often. As a result, he has 8 playoff appearances to Newton's 7, despite Newton being around for an extra year. He also has 4 playoff victories to Newton's 3. Lastly, Newton has had a lot more surrounding talent than Luck has had. You can always throw a ball faster than you can run it.
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EastexHawg

Re: Josh Rosen
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 12:53:56 pm »

If you are a QB who can't operate from the pocket you're really not a QB, at least not at the NFL level. 
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