Hogville Info
• 10,333,332 Posts
• 409,063 Topics
• 23,365 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: It may never translate, but...  (Read 3875 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BaconTheSaddleAgain

It may never translate, but...
« on: January 08, 2019, 03:27:10 pm »

It may never translate to anywhere near what we've seen from Clemson, but there is reason for hope. The Clemson program blueprint is what Morris is using to build at Arkansas. Chad Morris was one of the architects and engineers of their success.

Just a reminder that Dabo had a losing season in year three at Clemson, but won 10 games in year four and has had double-digit wins every year since (8 straight). It took some combined recruiting classes to get it rolling, and I suspect it will take some recruiting classes here as well. There is reason to believe we can right the ship.

Superhog1959

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 03:36:34 pm »

When you go 2-10 about all you got is hope. I (hope) Coach Morris does great things for the U of A football program. I (hope) he can stay the coach for along time. I (hope) he can show a lot of improvement next year to earn more time to do great things. I (hope) this is not another miss on coaching hire, because if it is the next decade will be hard to handle in football. 

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

dsf

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 04:09:46 pm »

Clemson is practically in Georgia, similar to being in Texarkana compared to Texas recruiting for us.  They also are fairly close to Florida and Alabama.  Then they cherry pick from Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina. 

Arkansas can not compare their recruiting to Clemson's.  We can hope, though.

BaconTheSaddleAgain

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 04:19:40 pm »

In the past six years, Clemson has had three classes in the teens or 20's. Granted, they had three classes in the top 10, but Clemson is primarily about culture, scheme, and development. We are currently far out-recruiting our success. If we can start showing the improvement in the W column, it stands to reason that the recruiting will improve with it. I would not all be surprised to see Chad Morris consistently to where our recruiting ranking is between 8 and 15 with some outliers in higher than 8 when we have more than 25 scholarships.

247Hog

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 04:27:25 pm »

Clemson is practically in Georgia, similar to being in Texarkana compared to Texas recruiting for us.  They also are fairly close to Florida and Alabama.  Then they cherry pick from Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina. 

Arkansas can not compare their recruiting to Clemson's.  We can hope, though.

You're right but Oklahoma can right?Only Arkansas can't compare?  I also had no idea that Clemson got any player they wanted in Georgia. Silly me thought they had to fight off....Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida State...wow, who knew. Based on your statement, since Clemson gets any player they want, i can be the Clemson coach since i get all the stud recruits with zero effort....smdh.

1highhog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 2309
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11,350
  • Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat.
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 05:04:00 pm »

In the past six years, Clemson has had three classes in the teens or 20's. Granted, they had three classes in the top 10, but Clemson is primarily about culture, scheme, and development. We are currently far out-recruiting our success. If we can start showing the improvement in the W column, it stands to reason that the recruiting will improve with it. I would not all be surprised to see Chad Morris consistently to where our recruiting ranking is between 8 and 15 with some outliers in higher than 8 when we have more than 25 scholarships.

That's some gold standard you're setting up there I must say.  But, we all should dare to dream of such lofty aspirations, they probably will never come true, but dreaming them is most of the fun anyway.
Logged

Pudgepork

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 1401
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5,065
  • Horse Racings most unlikely champ
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 05:04:59 pm »

You're right but Oklahoma can right?Only Arkansas can't compare?  I also had no idea that Clemson got any player they wanted in Georgia. Silly me thought they had to fight off....Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida State...wow, who knew. Based on your statement, since Clemson gets any player they want, i can be the Clemson coach since i get all the stud recruits with zero effort....smdh.

You left out UCF.  Youll probably hear from their lawyers.

247Hog

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 05:08:52 pm »

You left out UCF.  Youll probably hear from their lawyers.

 ;D ;D ;D

and you left out Miami. You hear a turnover chain coming, lock your door.
Logged

diveplayon4thn20

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 05:34:08 pm »

Clemson's recruiting base is not heads and tails above Arkansas. While South Carolina does produce more recruits than Arkansas, they have to share some with the Gamecocks, so both teams get the same amount of instate players on average.

They have Georgia, we have Texas. Oklahoma and Missouri are about equivalent to N. Carolina and Virginia.

 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed., while we have Tennessee and Mississippi  to the east of our state, both of which we have pulled bluchip players in this class amd in previous classes.

Oh, and Louisiana, per capita one of if not the most talent rich states, has been good to us over the years.. We also pull a couple three players out of Alabama and Georgia ourselves .

 So to say our recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's does not hold up to close scrutiny.

Con el Cerdos

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 05:55:29 pm »

Clemson is practically in Georgia, similar to being in Texarkana compared to Texas recruiting for us.  They also are fairly close to Florida and Alabama.  Then they cherry pick from Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina. 

Arkansas can not compare their recruiting to Clemson's.  We can hope, though.

You're right, IMO.  And Clemson has another advantage Arkansas doesn't:  Their ACC schedule.

Hawghiggs

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 06:08:44 pm »

You're right, IMO.  And Clemson has another advantage Arkansas doesn't:  Their ACC schedule.

 This. I've posting for years about how much easier it is for Oklahoma to be a winning program because of that very same thing. We can never be Clemson for this very reason. Playing in the SEC wast is a double edge sword.
Logged

Al Boarland

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 279
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,199
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2019, 06:14:23 pm »

This. I've posting for years about how much easier it is for Oklahoma to be a winning program because of that very same thing. We can never be Clemson for this very reason. Playing in the SEC wast is a double edge sword.

That's the challenge. Morris may never get the traction to do anything significant. If he can just start getting to bowl games he'll have job security.

Now is definitely the time for optimism. There aren't any games played for a while.
Logged

Superhog1959

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2019, 06:34:31 pm »

Coach Morris comes in, and from what we are being told has had a very good recruiting season. Despite a very poor year. Either he is just lucky or works very hard at recruiting. So taking into consideration, that most likely the good recruiting, (from what we are hearing) is hard work. There is no reason these classes will not continue to be good, or above average.
This mans career is on the line. If he is the person, I think he may be, he will give it his all. We will see, but I am hoping these new players will be quality players that can contribute soon. If you see improvement this fall, I think that may buy him time to field his team. I hope it does. If not, it will have to be dealt with.
I want to see better player effort. Better overall team organization. Better, visible coaching adjustments after the first half. More Ws.
The hogs have been through some tough years. BP hurt us. JLS hurt us. BB hurt us. Its time to get pissed off, get up and fight. Its time.

psychhog

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2019, 08:06:56 pm »

Coach Morris comes in, and from what we are being told has had a very good recruiting season. Despite a very poor year. Either he is just lucky or works very hard at recruiting. So taking into consideration, that most likely the good recruiting, (from what we are hearing) is hard work. There is no reason these classes will not continue to be good, or above average.
This mans career is on the line. If he is the person, I think he may be, he will give it his all. We will see, but I am hoping these new players will be quality players that can contribute soon. If you see improvement this fall, I think that may buy him time to field his team. I hope it does. If not, it will have to be dealt with.
I want to see better player effort. Better overall team organization. Better, visible coaching adjustments after the first half. More Ws.
The hogs have been through some tough years. BP hurt us. JLS hurt us. BB hurt us. Its time to get pissed off, get up and fight. Its time.

Listening to the radio today and they were comparing bama and Clemson culture that has been created. Obviously both are elite but have gone about it a little bit differently. Factory vs family is the terms used to describe each. Bama has been a “factory” of high level recruits, coming in and developing, winning a lot obviously and leaving after 3 years. They stated several of their big time defensive players left after jr year last year for NFL. Also over the last 4 years that these teams have played bama has had something like 14 different assistant coaching changes including multiple OC and DC changes which are big time changes showing that Saban is extremely hard on coaches.

They described Clemson as more of a family atmosphere. Also bringing in high level recruits but as was described last night multiple Clemson players returned for their senior season (they highlighted their extremely talented D-line) indicating they were returning for the culture/family atmosphere and chance at a championship. Also over these last 4 years that they’ve played, they’ve only had 2 assistant changes and they were not DC/OC but lower tiered assistant highlighting that dabo has created an atmosphere that assistant coaches want to continue working in.

I believe CCM is trying to build more of this family atmosphere with complete buy in by the coaches as well as with high level recruiting similar to Clemson.

HogBreath

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 08:21:56 pm »


 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed.


As I understand this area is good for producing lots of swimmers and divers.

BaconTheSaddleAgain

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 08:31:36 pm »

One of the things that bolsters my confidence is the buy in from the Morris recruits. They are supremely confident that Morris will produce the goods and that sunshine days are ahead.
Logged

dsf

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 09:14:58 pm »

You're right but Oklahoma can right?Only Arkansas can't compare?  I also had no idea that Clemson got any player they wanted in Georgia. Silly me thought they had to fight off....Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida State...wow, who knew. Based on your statement, since Clemson gets any player they want, i can be the Clemson coach since i get all the stud recruits with zero effort....smdh.
Nowhere in my comment did I say Clemson got any player they wanted in Georgia...however, they do recruit Georgia very well.
Logged

dsf

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 09:19:43 pm »

Clemson's recruiting base is not heads and tails above Arkansas. While South Carolina does produce more recruits than Arkansas, they have to share some with the Gamecocks, so both teams get the same amount of instate players on average.

They have Georgia, we have Texas. Oklahoma and Missouri are about equivalent to N. Carolina and Virginia.

 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed., while we have Tennessee and Mississippi  to the east of our state, both of which we have pulled bluchip players in this class amd in previous classes.

Oh, and Louisiana, per capita one of if not the most talent rich states, has been good to us over the years.. We also pull a couple three players out of Alabama and Georgia ourselves .

 So to say our recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's does not hold up to close scrutiny.
Arkansas' recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's is the common theme by every recruiting service out there!

pheine78

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 09:44:21 pm »

Coach Morris comes in, and from what we are being told has had a very good recruiting season. Despite a very poor year. Either he is just lucky or works very hard at recruiting. So taking into consideration, that most likely the good recruiting, (from what we are hearing) is hard work. There is no reason these classes will not continue to be good, or above average.
This mans career is on the line. If he is the person, I think he may be, he will give it his all. We will see, but I am hoping these new players will be quality players that can contribute soon. If you see improvement this fall, I think that may buy him time to field his team. I hope it does. If not, it will have to be dealt with.
I want to see better player effort. Better overall team organization. Better, visible coaching adjustments after the first half. More Ws.
The hogs have been through some tough years. BP hurt us. JLS hurt us. BB hurt us. Its time to get pissed off, get up and fight. Its time.

Essayons. Spent a couple of deployments working for the Army Corps of Engineers. Loved their motto, it applies to naysayers and sunshine pumpers. Totally appropriate in Coach Morris’s case. And the program’s case.

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2986
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58,673
  • Go Hogs and Go Eric Musselman!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 11:12:56 pm »

Listening to the radio today and they were comparing bama and Clemson culture that has been created. Obviously both are elite but have gone about it a little bit differently. Factory vs family is the terms used to describe each. Bama has been a “factory” of high level recruits, coming in and developing, winning a lot obviously and leaving after 3 years. They stated several of their big time defensive players left after jr year last year for NFL. Also over the last 4 years that these teams have played bama has had something like 14 different assistant coaching changes including multiple OC and DC changes which are big time changes showing that Saban is extremely hard on coaches.

They described Clemson as more of a family atmosphere. Also bringing in high level recruits but as was described last night multiple Clemson players returned for their senior season (they highlighted their extremely talented D-line) indicating they were returning for the culture/family atmosphere and chance at a championship. Also over these last 4 years that they’ve played, they’ve only had 2 assistant changes and they were not DC/OC but lower tiered assistant highlighting that dabo has created an atmosphere that assistant coaches want to continue working in.

I believe CCM is trying to build more of this family atmosphere with complete buy in by the coaches as well as with high level recruiting similar to Clemson.
What Saban wouldn't give to have one of his players give him a wet Willy on national TV!

SooieGeneris

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Total likes: 790
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,912
  • You don't ever want to be chasin' speed..
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 11:13:58 pm »

Clemson is practically in Georgia, similar to being in Texarkana compared to Texas recruiting for us.  They also are fairly close to Florida and Alabama.  Then they cherry pick from Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina. 

Arkansas can not compare their recruiting to Clemson's.  We can hope, though.

If it has been that easy to recruit at Clemson all along, why did they go 30 years without even a major bowl bid at one point before Dabo got there?

Tommy Bowden was considered one of the hottest HC prospects in the late 90s early 2000s and every recruit in GA and elsewhere would know the Bowden family name, yet the GA players were not flocking there.

Pretty much everybody in the SEC recruits GA along with Ohio St and Michigan. Kids now will go a long way from home, look at Oregon's class..

People in the Pac12 talk about how backwater Eugene OR is and it's a long way from most blue chip players. It can be done here. We are 7 years removed from finishing #5 in the nation in the final poll.

If we had a staff that could recruit anything like this one, and a HC who wasn't such an ass, we would have had sustained success. Whether this staff can coach like that one did remains to be seen, but Caldwell was here then and Chavis was doing great at LSU, maybe Cooper too.

It can be done. I can't say with certainty it will, but it starts with recruiting and this staff is proving they can do that at a higher level than we're used to.

Clemson's last 5 classes were ranked 16,9,11,16 and 7. We're not that far from that in this class. You can't convince me that there is not some politics in the rankings also.

Alabama's worst ranked class was #5 in 2018, Clemson's best was #7. Was there THAT big a talent gap last night? I think not..

jdlittle

  • Bench Warmer
  • ***
  • Total likes: 9
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 11:18:19 pm »

I hope Coach Morris has the complete support from u of administration to establish a football program.  board, president , chancellor.               

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2986
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58,673
  • Go Hogs and Go Eric Musselman!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2019, 11:19:38 pm »

bagman...

LZH

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 05:00:15 am »

Clemson's recruiting base is not heads and tails above Arkansas. While South Carolina does produce more recruits than Arkansas, they have to share some with the Gamecocks, so both teams get the same amount of instate players on average.

They have Georgia, we have Texas. Oklahoma and Missouri are about equivalent to N. Carolina and Virginia.

 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed., while we have Tennessee and Mississippi  to the east of our state, both of which we have pulled bluchip players in this class amd in previous classes.

Oh, and Louisiana, per capita one of if not the most talent rich states, has been good to us over the years.. We also pull a couple three players out of Alabama and Georgia ourselves .

 So to say our recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's does not hold up to close scrutiny.

Somewhat accurate, but they are alot closer to their talent base than Fayetteville is to TX or LA & MS.  The main way to close that gap some is to win ball games.
Logged

OneTuskOverTheLine™

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 1013
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 15,877
  • One tusk over the line sweet Jesus...
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 05:49:02 pm »

It may never translate to anywhere near what we've seen from Clemson, but there is reason for hope. The Clemson program blueprint is what Morris is using to build at Arkansas. Chad Morris was one of the architects and engineers of their success.

Just a reminder that Dabo had a losing season in year three at Clemson, but won 10 games in year four and has had double-digit wins every year since (8 straight). It took some combined recruiting classes to get it rolling, and I suspect it will take some recruiting classes here as well. There is reason to believe we can right the ship.

 The ONLY reason it wouldn't translate at this point is if people doubted the possibility, but when Dabo himself get's on national TV thanking God and exclaiming that it can happen anywhere then only a fart headed fool could look at this staff and NOT see that these guys are closer's, and the sky is the limit. Just hold onto hope and this staff and Arkansas is looking at a newer and higher Zenith. If we get to where we are in the playoffs every other year it will be golden, but I can't see how anything is going to stop this staff with them knowing what they know...

liljo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 1138
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 08:38:50 am »

Clay Henry had an interesting observation last night. Where Clemson whipped 'Bama was in the DL and WR positions. Their monster defensive line was able to control the run and get to the QB like nobody else all season. And their big, fast wide receivers were able to present hittable targets all night long.

Of course, they have the QB that can read it and deliver, but Arkansas HAS recruited very well at DL and WR (especially size and speed). Will our 4* players develop like Clemson's did? Remains to be seen, but it is apparent Coach Morris is determined to field a team that LOOKS like Clemson, at the very least.

DeltaBoy

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 634
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 71,367
  • I'm Un-Reconstructed. Sic semper tyrannis
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 08:50:37 am »

It may never translate to anywhere near what we've seen from Clemson, but there is reason for hope. The Clemson program blueprint is what Morris is using to build at Arkansas. Chad Morris was one of the architects and engineers of their success.

Just a reminder that Dabo had a losing season in year three at Clemson, but won 10 games in year four and has had double-digit wins every year since (8 straight). It took some combined recruiting classes to get it rolling, and I suspect it will take some recruiting classes here as well. There is reason to believe we can right the ship.

I hope this can happen here but a percentage of our Fan base is too impatient.
Logged

BossHawg_Outlaw

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 10:18:09 am »

I hope this can happen here but a percentage of our Fan base is too impatient.

Honestly we have been pretty patient.  Everyone could tell after 5 years CBB was failing and if you couldn't you have more issues then he did.  CBP got himself fired and CHN had some really good years but it was time for a change.

Großer Kriegschwein

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 794
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 17,653
  • Everything from did-il-I-doh to darned if I know
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 10:21:53 am »

This. I've posting for years about how much easier it is for Oklahoma to be a winning program because of that very same thing. We can never be Clemson for this very reason. Playing in the SEC wast is a double edge sword.

I don’t care about becoming Clemson, per se.

I want to win 8-9 games a year, with a 10 or 11 sprinkled in ever few years to keep my wallet open to the foundation.

Bad year should be 6-7 wins.

4 win seasons should be once in a decade type of bad. 3-9 or 2-10 should be nearly as unattainable as winning 14 games and a national championship.

hog of steele

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 233
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,648
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2019, 10:28:40 am »

Clemson is practically in Georgia, similar to being in Texarkana compared to Texas recruiting for us.  They also are fairly close to Florida and Alabama.  Then they cherry pick from Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, and North Carolina. 

Arkansas can not compare their recruiting to Clemson's.  We can hope, though.

They cherry pick because of their success. Its a step by step type process. If we can back up this class with a couple equally impressive classes, we will have the guys we need to get top 20 finishes.

Finishing consistently in the top 20 should get us in a few more living rooms and improve our recruiting profile.

Nobody knows if CCM is going to take us all the way. But he did achieve his first major goal.

Großer Kriegschwein

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 794
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 17,653
  • Everything from did-il-I-doh to darned if I know
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2019, 10:33:26 am »

They cherry pick because of their success. Its a step by step type process. If we can back up this class with a couple equally impressive classes, we will have the guys we need to get top 20 finishes.

Finishing consistently in the top 20 should get us in a few more living rooms and improve our recruiting profile.

Nobody knows if CCM is going to take us all the way. But he did achieve his first major goal.

They cherry pick outside of their historical areas because Dabo is a world class recruiter.

That’s why they hired him. THE ONLY REAL REASON THEY HIRED HIM.

He develops his coaches to become excellent recruiters and doesn’t hire coaches that don’t have traits that will make them stand out in that regard. The AD knew they needed talent to win and that you can hire a staff to win football games.

That’s how they got where they are today. The short short version.

Dwight_K_Shrute

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2054
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 17,153
  • Follow @fakewallyhall.
    • Missing your favorite thread?  It's probably in Vents and Rumors
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 10:41:11 am »

It's a nice comparison and all but 2 totally different situations.

Clemson has never gone through the complete and utter sh*t show that has been Arkansas football since the April 2012.

4 wins
3 wins
6 wins
8 wins
7 wins
4 wins
2 wins

Average slightly less than 5 wins per year over a 7 year span.

Here are Clemson's wins for the 7 years before Chad Morris arrived there
6
8
8
9
7
9
6

7.6 wins per year.  During that span they had 2 head coaches and the one that was fired (Bowden) was replaced with a coach already on staff.  So they had a lot of continuity.  They were bowl eligible every year of Bowden's tenure.  Fewest games they every won was 6 and highest 9.  Going all the way back to 1994 they have had only 3 HC's and 3 losing seasons.  In that same span we have had 6 HCs and many losing season.

Clemson is a program marked by stability and consistency over the past 25 years.  In flipping that house Dabo had a good foundation, strong walls, and a nice piece of land.  He came in and finished it off, and brought in craftsmen like Venables and Morris to add high end finishes and we see the results.

Nutt's tenure was very Bowden like and Petrino came in and made the house look real nice.  Only problem is he used lead based paint.  JLS got high off of it.  Then some contractor named Bert was brought in from the North.  He had a case of Old Style and talked a good game, but by the time he left, nothing was up to code.  Chad Morris is having to tear everything down to the studs.  Morris has never taken on a project of this scope.  Great craftsman at Clemson.  The 3 BR ranch style he flipped in Fort Worth was OK but this is million dollar listing and it's going to be a while until we can decide to love it or list it.

hog of steele

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 233
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,648
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2019, 11:36:01 am »

He develops his coaches to become excellent recruiters and doesn’t hire coaches that don’t have traits that will make them stand out in that regard.

That is great for us. More reasons to believe in this year's recruiting success.

Logged

TexHog188

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 422
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,239
  • Touchdown Arkansas!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2019, 12:34:28 pm »

It's a nice comparison and all but 2 totally different situations.

Clemson has never gone through the complete and utter sh*t show that has been Arkansas football since the April 2012.

4 wins
3 wins
6 wins
8 wins
7 wins
4 wins
2 wins

Average slightly less than 5 wins per year over a 7 year span.

Here are Clemson's wins for the 7 years before Chad Morris arrived there
6
8
8
9
7
9
6

7.6 wins per year.  During that span they had 2 head coaches and the one that was fired (Bowden) was replaced with a coach already on staff.  So they had a lot of continuity.  They were bowl eligible every year of Bowden's tenure.  Fewest games they every won was 6 and highest 9.  Going all the way back to 1994 they have had only 3 HC's and 3 losing seasons.  In that same span we have had 6 HCs and many losing season.

Clemson is a program marked by stability and consistency over the past 25 years.  In flipping that house Dabo had a good foundation, strong walls, and a nice piece of land.  He came in and finished it off, and brought in craftsmen like Venables and Morris to add high end finishes and we see the results.

If championships are your goal, then a culture of mediocrity is just as bad/toxic as the situation we have at Arkansas.  Going to a bowl game doesn't equal success in that model.  Clemson was mired in mediocrity and continuity of mediocrity is still failure.  Yes fans can look at the record and say, well it's not that bad, we won 7.6 games and went to a bowl, yea for us.  Arkansas fans would take Clemson's pre-Dabo record and be pacified, but in reality the goal is not to make 6 wins or 7 or 8, it was and is to go 15-0 and win championships.  That requires the culture to be changed; new coaches, new attitudes, new off season workouts, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, new recruiting strategy, starting freshmen and sitting seniors, and letting go of players that can't get you where you're going.  All of those are elements of culture change, and the more ingrained the culture, the more difficult it is change.

The Dallas Cowboys have the same dang problem, Jerry is unwilling to blow up the culture in order to break out of the cycle of mediocrity they've been in for two decades.  Ya, they make the playoffs once in a while, but are never really a threat to win the Super Bowl.  I fully expect the Rams to beat Dallas on Saturday and then for Jerry to say, we're so close...  But they aren't... they are a mediocre team in weak conference that have accepted making the playoffs as success, but I digress...

Bottom line is that the Clemson model should yield positive results if the commitment is there from the entire football complex; AD, coaches, players, boosters, and fans.  We have to trust the process, be patient, and let it play out.  What will be tougher is the conference we play in vs Clemson.  Outside of Fla St and maybe Miami, there is no one to challenge Clemson.  Maybe North Carolina might get better with Mack Brown, but there is no Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, aTm, ... gauntlet in the ACC.

Dwight_K_Shrute

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2054
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 17,153
  • Follow @fakewallyhall.
    • Missing your favorite thread?  It's probably in Vents and Rumors
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2019, 12:36:13 pm »

The intricacies of the quote function can be daunting for some.

psychhog

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2019, 12:38:22 pm »

It's a nice comparison and all but 2 totally different situations.

Clemson has never gone through the complete and utter sh*t show that has been Arkansas football since the April 2012.

4 wins
3 wins
6 wins
8 wins
7 wins
4 wins
2 wins

Average slightly less than 5 wins per year over a 7 year span.

Here are Clemson's wins for the 7 years before Chad Morris arrived there
6
8
8
9
7
9
6

7.6 wins per year.  During that span they had 2 head coaches and the one that was fired (Bowden) was replaced with a coach already on staff.  So they had a lot of continuity.  They were bowl eligible every year of Bowden's tenure.  Fewest games they every won was 6 and highest 9.  Going all the way back to 1994 they have had only 3 HC's and 3 losing seasons.  In that same span we have had 6 HCs and many losing season.

Clemson is a program marked by stability and consistency over the past 25 years.  In flipping that house Dabo had a good foundation, strong walls, and a nice piece of land.  He came in and finished it off, and brought in craftsmen like Venables and Morris to add high end finishes and we see the results.

Nutt's tenure was very Bowden like and Petrino came in and made the house look real nice.  Only problem is he used lead based paint.  JLS got high off of it.  Then some contractor named Bert was brought in from the North.  He had a case of Old Style and talked a good game, but by the time he left, nothing was up to code.  Chad Morris is having to tear everything down to the studs.  Morris has never taken on a project of this scope.  Great craftsman at Clemson.  The 3 BR ranch style he flipped in Fort Worth was OK but this is million dollar listing and it's going to be a while until we can decide to love it or list it.

Great comparison of our program to Clemson in breaking down the numbers and overall stability of each program. Also lol at the love it or list it reference and completely agree about the work Morris is having to do. Complete tear down of the overall culture and recruiting overhaul.

I think he’s doing it but it is definitely going to take a little time. I’m still excited about the athletes we have coming in especially at the skill positions as has been mentioned. The size of the WR coming in appears to be in line with what Clemson has done over the past few years with their tall athletic WR’s. The 2 that were working bama’s D the other night are both 6’4. They’ve had other 6’3+ guys over the past few seasons go on to the nfl such as mike Williams, or the legget kid at TE who was a beast.
Logged

TexHog188

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 422
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,239
  • Touchdown Arkansas!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2019, 12:39:50 pm »

The intricacies of the quote function can be daunting for some.

[ got deleted in the edit...
Logged

FourthandShort

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39
  • This ain't my first rodeo
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2019, 12:46:41 pm »

Arkansas' recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's is the common theme by every recruiting service out there!

Really?

Texas and Louisiana are just as good of territories as Florida and Georgia. You just have to do a better job evaluating talent than Bret did. We signed tons of kids who never worked out. Clemson hasn’t done anything similar to that.

BaconTheSaddleAgain

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2019, 01:17:49 pm »

It's a nice comparison and all but 2 totally different situations.

Clemson has never gone through the complete and utter sh*t show that has been Arkansas football since the April 2012.

4 wins
3 wins
6 wins
8 wins
7 wins
4 wins
2 wins

Average slightly less than 5 wins per year over a 7 year span.

Here are Clemson's wins for the 7 years before Chad Morris arrived there
6
8
8
9
7
9
6

7.6 wins per year.  During that span they had 2 head coaches and the one that was fired (Bowden) was replaced with a coach already on staff.  So they had a lot of continuity.  They were bowl eligible every year of Bowden's tenure.  Fewest games they every won was 6 and highest 9.  Going all the way back to 1994 they have had only 3 HC's and 3 losing seasons.  In that same span we have had 6 HCs and many losing season.

Clemson is a program marked by stability and consistency over the past 25 years.  In flipping that house Dabo had a good foundation, strong walls, and a nice piece of land.  He came in and finished it off, and brought in craftsmen like Venables and Morris to add high end finishes and we see the results.

Nutt's tenure was very Bowden like and Petrino came in and made the house look real nice.  Only problem is he used lead based paint.  JLS got high off of it.  Then some contractor named Bert was brought in from the North.  He had a case of Old Style and talked a good game, but by the time he left, nothing was up to code.  Chad Morris is having to tear everything down to the studs.  Morris has never taken on a project of this scope.  Great craftsman at Clemson.  The 3 BR ranch style he flipped in Fort Worth was OK but this is million dollar listing and it's going to be a while until we can decide to love it or list it.

I don't disagree with any of that. The comparison is not where the schools are going and not even necessarily where Arkansas will be in year 4 or 5 or 8 or 12. The comparison to me is the blueprint. Maybe this situation is so foreign it doesn't translate. Maybe Morris just doesn't have the magic sauce that Dabo has. Maybe Clemson's ceiling is simply just higher than ours. But, I can't think of a blueprint to give us a shot at national prominence than the one that Clemson used to get where they are.

Look at recruiting. Clemson has just one commitment in this current class from the state of South Carolina. Last year, they had six. In 2017, they had just one. In 2016, they only had four. They have relied primarily on Florida the way that Morris has shown he plans to rely on Texas. They have relied on Georgia in much the same way we have relied on Louisiana.

The reason that I am optimistic is that despite the 2-10 record, it is very clear that Morris is organized and has a very clear picture of what he wants to accomplish and knows exactly how he wants to accomplish it. And he's using a blueprint that works.

Dwight_K_Shrute

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2054
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 17,153
  • Follow @fakewallyhall.
    • Missing your favorite thread?  It's probably in Vents and Rumors
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2019, 05:08:43 pm »

Great comparison of our program to Clemson in breaking down the numbers and overall stability of each program. Also lol at the love it or list it reference and completely agree about the work Morris is having to do. Complete tear down of the overall culture and recruiting overhaul.

My wife watched too much HGTV over the break.
Logged

OneTuskOverTheLine™

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 1013
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 15,877
  • One tusk over the line sweet Jesus...
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 05:43:23 pm »

I don’t care about becoming Clemson, per se.

I want to win 8-9 games a year, with a 10 or 11 sprinkled in ever few years to keep my wallet open to the foundation.

Bad year should be 6-7 wins.

4 win seasons should be once in a decade type of bad. 3-9 or 2-10 should be nearly as unattainable as winning 14 games and a national championship.

 I disagree... I think Morris will make 4 win season's a thing of the past once he get's the ball rolling. We appear to be far ahead of his SMU schedule, but we are also in a FAR superior conference. I am hopeful to say the least, but I am actually expecting it, and am patient enough to read the signs to determine WHEN the time will arrive...

Blumpkin

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 07:22:45 pm »

We suck.
We will suck next year.
If any of us are lucky, we might see a team that scratches the skin of a playoff.
That’s reality.
Don’t put too much of your livelihood into a college sports team.
Happy New Yearz
Logged

jgphillips3

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 1123
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,467
  • Where are they now the little people of Stonehenge
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2019, 09:31:38 pm »

Clemson 247 Recruiting ranking by year:

2003 #43
2004 #44
2005 #15
2006 #14
2007 #16
2008 #9
2009 #36
2010 #27
2011 #10
2012 #20
2013 #15
2014 #16
2015 #9
2016 #11
2017 #16
2018 #7

The team that just whipped the dog shart out of Alabama has averaged out at #11 in recruiting over the past four years.  We may never pull consistent top ten recruiting classes but Clemson isn’t either.  A good level of talent (classes ranked in the top 15) is sufficient to maintain success and then when you get your Trevor Lawrence...boom.  Given our current ranking, I can see a similar blueprint working here but it’s going to take 3 or 4 years to really get cranking.  We could be pretty good in 2 years though.

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2175
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 40,602
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2019, 09:33:53 pm »

Clemson's recruiting base is not heads and tails above Arkansas. While South Carolina does produce more recruits than Arkansas, they have to share some with the Gamecocks, so both teams get the same amount of instate players on average.

They have Georgia, we have Texas. Oklahoma and Missouri are about equivalent to N. Carolina and Virginia.

 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed., while we have Tennessee and Mississippi  to the east of our state, both of which we have pulled bluchip players in this class amd in previous classes.

Oh, and Louisiana, per capita one of if not the most talent rich states, has been good to us over the years.. We also pull a couple three players out of Alabama and Georgia ourselves .

 So to say our recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's does not hold up to close scrutiny.

I checked the roster. I counted SEVENTY NINE of the players on Clemson’s team this year are from three states......South Carolina, Georgia and North Carolina. A lot of people don’t realize how many good players there are in those states and then add in Florida and Virginia and yes their base is big. I’ve worked in the area and been on the Clemson campus. I can see how they can recruit when they have good recruiters. That being said Arkansas can recruit better more consistently as well if they have good recruiting coaches. A lot of places can.

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2175
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 40,602
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2019, 09:46:11 pm »

Clemson 247 Recruiting ranking by year:

2003 #43
2004 #44
2005 #15
2006 #14
2007 #16
2008 #9
2009 #36
2010 #27
2011 #10
2012 #20
2013 #15
2014 #16
2015 #9
2016 #11
2017 #16
2018 #7

The team that just whipped the dog shart out of Alabama has averaged out at #11 in recruiting over the past four years.  We may never pull consistent top ten recruiting classes but Clemson isn’t either.  A good level of talent (classes ranked in the top 15) is sufficient to maintain success and then when you get your Trevor Lawrence...boom.  Given our current ranking, I can see a similar blueprint working here but it’s going to take 3 or 4 years to really get cranking.  We could be pretty good in 2 years though.

People on here would celebrate like New Year’s Eve every day if we averaged that high.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 10:19:01 pm by Inhogswetrust »
Logged

jgphillips3

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 1123
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,467
  • Where are they now the little people of Stonehenge
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2019, 10:11:27 pm »

People on here would celebrate like New Year’s Eve evey day if we averaged that high.

Yes they would.  I would.  My main point though is that we don’t have to be #1-5 in the Country to win big.  People keep knocking our #13-19 ranking and pointing out how much higher Bama, Georgia and such are but Clemson won in 2016 with a four year average class of #15 and this year with a 4 year average of #11.  Those are reasonably attainable levels for us if Morris keeps recruiting like he is currently.

Superhog1959

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2019, 08:54:31 am »

Yes they would.  I would.  My main point though is that we don’t have to be #1-5 in the Country to win big.  People keep knocking our #13-19 ranking and pointing out how much higher Bama, Georgia and such are but Clemson won in 2016 with a four year average class of #15 and this year with a 4 year average of #11.  Those are reasonably attainable levels for us if Morris keeps recruiting like he is currently.
For Coach Morris to come here and have a high recruiting class after a year like he had, to me is amazing. These schools that always have high rankings have tradition of winning a lot. We don't have that, yet Coach Morris, (from what we are told) has brought in some very high rated recruits. If he continues to do this in the future, at some point we will have a good team.
For last year, I am telling myself we didn't see his real team. I am hoping that's the case anyway. We will know for sure by the end of this year.
Logged

Grizzlyfan

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 280
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6,948
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2019, 10:36:49 am »

Clemson's recruiting base is not heads and tails above Arkansas. While South Carolina does produce more recruits than Arkansas, they have to share some with the Gamecocks, so both teams get the same amount of instate players on average.

They have Georgia, we have Texas. Oklahoma and Missouri are about equivalent to N. Carolina and Virginia.

 To the east r of S.Carolina is the Atlantic Ocean, not exactly a  recruiting hotbed., while we have Tennessee and Mississippi  to the east of our state, both of which we have pulled bluchip players in this class amd in previous classes.

Oh, and Louisiana, per capita one of if not the most talent rich states, has been good to us over the years.. We also pull a couple three players out of Alabama and Georgia ourselves .

 So to say our recruiting base is a redhead stepchild to Clemson's does not hold up to close scrutiny.
Yes, it is.
We are not a major player in Texas right now.  Pretty far down the pecking order in fact. Clemson is a major player in Georgia.
Logged

hog of steele

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 233
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,648
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2019, 12:02:43 pm »

Yes, it is.
We are not a major player in Texas right now.  Pretty far down the pecking order in fact. Clemson is a major player in Georgia.

Not a major player in texas isn't a result of not having access to texas. Our recruiting base isn't as good as some schools, but its comparable to clemson. We just have to get out and put in the work. Which CCM seems to be doing.

HotlantaHog

Re: It may never translate, but...
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2019, 02:10:28 pm »

Clemson has a better recruiting base than Arkansas, no doubt, especially with Atlanta just two hours away and lots of great players in north Georgia (Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence come to mind.) Clemson is not especially close to Florida, though the Tigers have picked up some great players there -- really the base is the Carolinas and Georgia, and occasionally they can pick up someone good from another state.

 Clemson has had a philosophy of rotating players in and out, so they play an awful lot of players, and they play an exciting offense that highlights stars in the skill positions. It reminds me of the ``feed the studs'' idea of Petrino at Arkansas, though obviously has worked a bit better recently at Clemson. Both the willingness to play a lot of players, highlighting skilled positions of wide receivers and backs, and super assistant coaches have attracted really good talent.

There's no doubt Arkansas itself isn't going to be able to recruit as well from Arkansas alone -- though there have been some great players from the state, more than you would expect over the past decade. (It would be great if high school football would get better in the state.) Texas obviously is loaded and so is Louisiana. So there's no reason Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma don't provide a great base for talent.

Fayetteville is a great college town, beautiful, fun, nice environment -- there's no reason that CCM can't be successful here. There's a big change from being an assistant to being the chief, and Morris is still basically learning on the job. It is still early to be overly encouraged or discouraged -- I'm an optimist so am looking forward to how things develop the next couple of years.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas