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Kevin Durant to Golden State

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HiggiePiggy:

Man they are going to be a really tough team for Cleveland to beat next year.  I still take Cleveland. 

Dr. Starcs:

Just another prime example of the player today.

Weak move by kd.

azhog10:

Not a fan of this move. Not sure what KD wants out of this except an easy way to get a ring. Didn't like when Lebron went to Miami and don't like KD doing this either.

HiggiePiggy:


--- Quote from: azhog10 on July 04, 2016, 01:25:22 pm ---Not a fan of this move. Not sure what KD wants out of this except an easy way to get a ring. Didn't like when Lebron went to Miami and don't like KD doing this either.

--- End quote ---

Sometimes if you ever want to win a ring then you have to leave.  Do you hate Garnett for leaving the Timberwolves? Should every player never leave the team they are drafted to even when the owners aren't doing crap to make the team better? 

Hawg Red:

I have similar to feelings as I had when LeBron went to MIA. I get that he wants to win. But where is the competitiveness from an all-time great player? He was a game away from the Finals this season, so this really isn't even like LeBron where Cleveland was too inept to put a good enough team around him. Just feels like this generation wants to take the shortcut to getting the monkey off their back. You could make an argument that Golden State now has 4 of the top 10 players in the NBA. I'm sorry, but that diminishes Durant's legacy and greatness, just as many felt the same with LeBron in Miami. This actually tops the Big 3 teaming up.

Again, hard to really dog a guy too hard for wanting to win, but this just doesn't feel good. Feels cheap. How could anyone outside of the Golden State organization/fanbase/player families truly get excited about this other than to have a "bad guy" to root against? It's just like....overkill.

Kinda crazy how this happened, though. Bit of a perfect storm situation of circumstances that isn't likely to present itself again. And it will be tough to keep this team together with Durant, Curry, and Iguodala all free agents next summer and Golden State not having Bird Rights to Durant. They will have to free up about $30 million in cap space to re-sign Durant.

HiggiePiggy:

Durant played for okc for 9 years. They made it to the finals and then got rid of one of their key players in getting to the finals. He stayed and hasn't gotten to the finals again. I don't blame him for leaving. It's more on OKC than him. 

Dr. Starcs:

How exactly was okc not making their team better?  They were up 3-1 on gst, and just traded to get oladipo and sabonis.

It's a weak move by kd and I don't even like okc.

Hawg Red:


--- Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 04, 2016, 01:38:59 pm ---Sometimes if you ever want to win a ring then you have to leave.  Do you hate Garnett for leaving the Timberwolves? Should every player never leave the team they are drafted to even when the owners aren't doing crap to make the team better?

--- End quote ---

Not every circumstance is the same. Garnett did not have in Minnesota what Durant had in OKC. Again, a game away from the Finals this season and they've already been to the Finals once before. The front office made a pretty good trade to make them better and give them some financial flexibility by trading away Ibaka (who many had soured on) for young, cheap players with talent. Garnett got bounced in the first round EVERY YEAR except 2004 when they went to the conference finals. Far cry from Durant getting to 3 conference finals and 1 Finals appearance. OKC was close. Minnesota wasn't. Cleveland wasn't. Big difference.

Hawg Red:


--- Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 04, 2016, 01:48:04 pm ---Durant played for okc for 9 years. They made it to the finals and then got rid of one of their key players in getting to the finals. He stayed and hasn't gotten to the finals again. I don't blame him for leaving. It's more on OKC than him.

--- End quote ---

Serge Ibaka has been looked at as a player who needed to step up for a couple of years now and he only had one year left on his contract. They were wise to flip him for young, cheap assets and free up potential cap space.

Dr. Starcs:

Not to mention they brought in the golden boy Eddie Munster who everyone raved about how great he was coaching this year.

We'll see how everyone feels this time next year about that.

HOGINTENNESSEE:

If I'm a college AD I start preparing my pitch to Billy D now for next offseason.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 01:23:09 pm ---Just another prime example of the player today.

Weak move by kd.

--- End quote ---

Why is that a weak move? It automatically makes them the favorite for as long as he and Curry are there together unless Cleveland gets another superstar as well.

Dr. Starcs:

Similar to all the one and dones who team up and go to Kentucky rather than compete against the best.

You're gonna go to the team you had down 3-1 before you couldnt close the deal. It was weak when lebron did it too.

Today's superstar players don't have that mentality. He will probably win a few titles with gst, but his legacy will now never be as great as it could've been.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 01:48:15 pm ---How exactly was okc not making their team better?  They were up 3-1 on gst, and just traded to get oladipo and sabonis.

It's a weak move by kd and I don't even like okc.

--- End quote ---

Maybe GS showed more love for him in some way. Maybe he wasn't happy with OKC management somehow and no amount of money can overcome that a lot of times. Slamming someone's move without knowing their motivations and/or what an organizations true offer is what is really weak. IF it was for money some would complain IF it was  for a easier path isn his eyes to a title some would complain. IF there is one universal truth in sports contracts and movement or not is someone will always complain.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 02:18:13 pm ---Similar to all the one and dones who team up and go to Kentucky rather than compete against the best.

You're gonna go to the team you had down 3-1 before you couldnt close the deal. It was weak when lebron did it too.

Today's superstar players don't have that mentality. He will probably win a few titles with gst, but his legacy will now never be as great as it could've been.

--- End quote ---

I'd bet they could NOT care less what others think that have never played at that level.......................His legacy will be just fine without you.

Dr. Starcs:

So they could care less?

clutch:


--- Quote from: Hawg Red on July 04, 2016, 01:49:34 pm ---Not every circumstance is the same. Garnett did not have in Minnesota what Durant had in OKC. Again, a game away from the Finals this season and they've already been to the Finals once before. The front office made a pretty good trade to make them better and give them some financial flexibility by trading away Ibaka (who many had soured on) for young, cheap players with talent. Garnett got bounced in the first round EVERY YEAR except 2004 when they went to the conference finals. Far cry from Durant getting to 3 conference finals and 1 Finals appearance. OKC was close. Minnesota wasn't. Cleveland wasn't. Big difference.

--- End quote ---

I understand that Cleveland didn't really have the pieces around Lebron that he wanted, but to say they weren't close isn't really accurate. They weren't far removed from a finals appearance. And I think they actually had the best record in the NBA that final year he was there. They needed to make a few moves to get them over the hump, but they were close.

Kevin:

Warriors will be fun to watch in regular season

Hogimus Prime:

Durant is better than Harrison Barnes, but Durant shot bad the last couple of games in the Western SemiFinals. He is going from a point guard who can drive and create to one that needs screens to get open. 

It seemed like Durant was expected to make that leap to the next level but hasn't. To me at times he wasn't as explosive this year as in year's past. Not sure if it was from the injuries the year before or what.

I will get blasted for this but the Warriors won't be any better and will still be beatable late in the playoffs.

husker71:

Cleveland had Ilugaskis ( I know wrong spelling) and Mo Williams and JJ Hickson and Bootie Gibson and Shaq in his 17th year   that was their team  oh yea Jamison in his 11th year    that was one of the worst supporting casts ever  And their owner Dan Gilbert was spouting off that Williams, Hickson and Gibson were young  stars on the rise.  So he left for Miami with Riley telling him I will put Wade and Bosh (in their prime) around him     Not hard to make that decision.

Kevin:

What the Warriors found out in the Cleveland series, if the game is called like the 80's, they don't have anyone who can create their own shot, now the do.



Sed76:

Durant like Lebron did what they felt they had to do. To me the big difference is how Durant went about it. No national TV spectacles, no proclaiming they are gonna win not 1 not 2, not 3 championships and all that.

latrops:


--- Quote from: Hogimus Prime on July 04, 2016, 03:36:40 pm ---Durant is better than Harrison Barnes, but Durant shot bad the last couple of games in the Western SemiFinals. He is going from a point guard who can drive and create to one that needs screens to get open. 

It seemed like Durant was expected to make that leap to the next level but hasn't. To me at times he wasn't as explosive this year as in year's past. Not sure if it was from the injuries the year before or what.

I will get blasted for this but the Warriors won't be any better and will still be beatable late in the playoffs.

--- End quote ---

Well, one of the few teams that might have been able to compete with GSW was OKC, so not only did they add a superstar, but they gutted a top competitor in the process.  My first thought is that I instantly root against the Warriors because of the move.  I seldom root for favorites, especially when they are working with a stacked deck. 

All that being said, I wouldn't consider it a given that the Warriors win it all next season.  They figure to lose Barnes, Bogut, and Ezeli....and while that doesn't seem like much, you never know how the new pieces are going to fit and gel.   Adding stars looks great on paper...Kevin Love was routinely going for 25 and 15 in Minnesota, but it can be argued that the Cavaliers just won a championship in spite of him.  Personally, I wonder if Horford wouldn't have been a better get for the Warriors.   Durant's perimeter game may be a bit redundant on that team.

latrops:


--- Quote from: Kevin on July 04, 2016, 05:03:26 pm ---What the Warriors found out in the Cleveland series, if the game is called like the 80's, they don't have anyone who can create their own shot, now the do.

--- End quote ---

Meh...I'm pretty sure they win the series if Draymond doesn't get himself suspended for a game and or Bogut doesn't go down to a knee injury. 

HiggiePiggy:


--- Quote from: latrops on July 04, 2016, 05:11:44 pm ---Meh...I'm pretty sure they win the series if Draymond doesn't get himself suspended for a game and or Bogut doesn't go down to a knee injury. 

--- End quote ---

It's possible.  Kind of like Cleveland would have won last year had love and Irving not been injured. 

husker71:

I understand that the big 3 or 4 from GSW flew to the Hamptons to present their case to Durant. I also understand that the Celtics had Tom Brady at their meeting with him.  Durant is such an improvement over Harrison Barnes it is sick.   Now they have to go and get some serviceable big men to replace Bogut and Ezeli.   This is the 1st time in NBA history that 4 of the top 12 players are on one team AND the window just closed on OKC    and they came with 4 minutes of winning the West.

Hogimus Prime:


--- Quote from: latrops on July 04, 2016, 05:05:01 pm ---Well, one of the few teams that might have been able to compete with GSW was OKC, so not only did they add a superstar, but they gutted a top competitor in the process.  My first thought is that I instantly root against the Warriors because of the move.  I seldom root for favorites, especially when they are working with a stacked deck. 

All that being said, I wouldn't consider it a given that the Warriors win it all next season.  They figure to lose Barnes, Bogut, and Ezeli....and while that doesn't seem like much, you never know how the new pieces are going to fit and gel.   Adding stars looks great on paper...Kevin Love was routinely going for 25 and 15 in Minnesota, but it can be argued that the Cavaliers just won a championship in spite of him.  Personally, I wonder if Horford wouldn't have been a better get for the Warriors.   Durant's perimeter game may be a bit redundant on that team.

--- End quote ---

I saw where the Warriors renounced Ezeli's rights and the Mavs gave Barnes a max offer and I doubt the Warriors can or will match that offer. Bogut has a history of injuries.

I really think the Cavs showed how to beat the Warriors.  Run Curry through screens. Have his man on defense set screens and get Curry in a one on one with your top guy. Curry got exposed as a not so good defender and he will shy away from that challenge. Secondly let their role players have open looks.  They will not kill you consistanly over a 7 game series.  If they start hitting let them.  Too many times teams in the regular season would focus on the role players when they'd start hitting and thats when Curry and Thompson would get hot.  Does Durant change that? Maybe. He is way better than Barnes, but that doesn't equal titles.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 02:56:08 pm ---So they could care less?

--- End quote ---

Fixed it just to please you.

Hawg Red:


--- Quote from: clutch on July 04, 2016, 03:02:38 pm ---I understand that Cleveland didn't really have the pieces around Lebron that he wanted, but to say they weren't close isn't really accurate. They weren't far removed from a finals appearance. And I think they actually had the best record in the NBA that final year he was there. They needed to make a few moves to get them over the hump, but they were close.

--- End quote ---

Cleveland making it to the Finals out of the Eastern Conference is not the same as OKC making it to the Finals out of the West. The Eastern Conference has been bad for quite some time. I believe they've only won 3 NBA championships in the last 20 years. Do me a favor and go back and look at those Cleveland rosters before LeBron left, list the next 3 best players, and then tell me they were "a few moves" away from getting over the hump.

latrops:


--- Quote from: Hawg Red on July 04, 2016, 07:48:55 pm ---Cleveland making it to the Finals out of the Eastern Conference is not the same as OKC making it to the Finals out of the West. The Eastern Conference has been bad for quite some time. I believe they've only won 3 NBA championships in the last 20 years. Do me a favor and go back and look at those Cleveland rosters before LeBron left, list the next 3 best players, and then tell me they were "a few moves" away from getting over the hump.

--- End quote ---

Well, it may have only taken one star free agent wanting to come play for championship as Lebrons sidekick.  Wouldn't Cleveland at least have been a serious contender if Bosh had gone there rather than Miami?

Hawg Red:


--- Quote from: latrops on July 04, 2016, 08:03:09 pm ---Well, it may have only taken one star free agent wanting to come play for championship as Lebrons sidekick.  Wouldn't Cleveland at least have been a serious contender if Bosh had gone there rather than Miami?

--- End quote ---

What was that one star waiting for? They went to the Finals in 2007 and he left in 2010.

And that Cavs team just plus Bosh would have been better, but had nowhere near the role players needed to win a championship. LeBron had regular season and non-championship playoff success in spite of the talent the Cavs surrounded him with. Bosh helps but does not make them a true title contender because as Shaq says, you need the "others" step up. And the others weren't stepping up on that roster. They were more than a couple of moves, and key moves at that, from being a true title contender.

azhog10:


--- Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 04, 2016, 01:38:59 pm ---Sometimes if you ever want to win a ring then you have to leave.  Do you hate Garnett for leaving the Timberwolves? Should every player never leave the team they are drafted to even when the owners aren't doing crap to make the team better?

--- End quote ---
The roster of the wolves and OKC were quite different. No comparison, that said I hated seeing Garnett leave. But the front offices were completely different.

Breems:

Now that it's done, I'm very curious to see how they gel and distribute shots. Unprecedented amount of offensive firepower on one team.

BigSexyHog:

Good for KD.  Not a fan of his but gotta do what is best for him.

BigSexyHog:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 01:23:09 pm ---Just another prime example of the player today.

Weak move by kd.

--- End quote ---

Why is it weak?  Cause you think so?  Why does it even matter to you?   

Killean:

Just for the record, the East had won 8 of the past 20 championships.  14 of the last 30.  3 of the last 5.  (All Lebron teams)





hawginbigd1:


--- Quote from: Hawg Red on July 04, 2016, 01:50:53 pm ---Serge Ibaka has been looked at as a player who needed to step up for a couple of years now and he only had one year left on his contract. They were wise to flip him for young, cheap assets and free up potential cap space.

--- End quote ---
Absolutely, I think the Magic lost big time on that deal.

Golden state just became Miami part 2! Please anybody but them win it and I will be happy!

Dr. Starcs:

Bsh, why does it matter to you what I think?

I've already laid out my reasons as to why I, along with a lot of others believe it was a weak move. If you didnt read the rest of the thread, I can't help you.

hoglady:

I prefer players with the Micheal Jordan mentality.
Make the team you're on better - if you're the Superstar you think you are then in Championship games put your team on your back and carry them to victory.
OKC lost because their stars (Durant and Westbrook) couldn't get the job at the end of games when everything was on the line.
Give me Bird, Magic or Jordan over most any of today's stars.

galactivation:

^^ Love how everybody seems to forget how many hall of famers were surrounding Larry and Magic, and that Jordan couldn't get past the pistons, but one time then they finally dismantled, not to mention Jordan's supporting cast & coach were pretty stellar.

Lebron didnt have anything to work with in Cleveland. Maybe his "decision" irked you, but you can't deny his unprecedented versatility, iq, & dominance.

Durant, it is a bit of a cop out, but i understand his thought process. If i were him, I'd wanna play in GS system, too. I'd be sick of Westbrook's antics: the hero ball, & the untimely turnovers, the clash. Think about how many open jumpers, how wide open the lane will be, the emphasis on uptempo, switch on all screens, & the willingness play ego free, not to mention the massive market increase for his personal brand.

Makes sense. They will be fun to watch & im excited to see how the league reacts

RyanMallettsEgo:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 04, 2016, 02:18:13 pm ---Similar to all the one and dones who team up and go to Kentucky rather than compete against the best.

You're gonna go to the team you had down 3-1 before you couldnt close the deal. It was weak when lebron did it too.

Today's superstar players don't have that mentality. He will probably win a few titles with gst, but his legacy will now never be as great as it could've been.

--- End quote ---

TIL: A legacy that consists of 1 (possibly more) MVPs, and potentially multiple titles with a new team will never be as great as a legacy on a team that would compete year in and year out, but have a difficult time winning multiple titles.

Learn something new every day.


Huge Durant fan, love his game and his swagger more than anyone else's in the League. But he's a competitive athlete who wants to win championships. Blaming him for joining the team that gives him the best chance to do that is moronic.

Like some of you guys wouldn't jump ship to a new company or promotion if it gave you a better chance at reaching your overall career goals and something you've worked for your whole life. He made a basketball decision. Basketball is his career. What's the problem?

Jonteviosk:


--- Quote from: Hogimus Prime on July 04, 2016, 06:39:21 pm ---I saw where the Warriors renounced Ezeli's rights and the Mavs gave Barnes a max offer and I doubt the Warriors can or will match that offer. Bogut has a history of injuries.

I really think the Cavs showed how to beat the Warriors.  Run Curry through screens. Have his man on defense set screens and get Curry in a one on one with your top guy. Curry got exposed as a not so good defender and he will shy away from that challenge. Secondly let their role players have open looks.  They will not kill you consistanly over a 7 game series.  If they start hitting let them.  Too many times teams in the regular season would focus on the role players when they'd start hitting and thats when Curry and Thompson would get hot.  Does Durant change that? Maybe. He is way better than Barnes, but that doesn't equal titles.

--- End quote ---

The Wars are adding Za Za Pachulia to their roster. On Mave was 8.6 pts 9.0 reb big man. He will be adequate replacement for Bogut. Ezeli was struggling. If they resign Verejao might solve their big man need.

RazorPiggie:

So basically GS is just going to shoot 3s every game. Not a fan of KD or GS.

It will be funny watching OKC getting bounced the first round every year though.

Adam Stokes:


--- Quote from: clutch on July 04, 2016, 03:02:38 pm ---I understand that Cleveland didn't really have the pieces around Lebron that he wanted, but to say they weren't close isn't really accurate. They weren't far removed from a finals appearance. And I think they actually had the best record in the NBA that final year he was there. They needed to make a few moves to get them over the hump, but they were close.

--- End quote ---

I think the biggest difference is you saw how the year after he left the team just absolutely tanked and not because they were trying, they were just that bad.  I think they went from 61 wins to 19.  When Jordan had his first retirement the team went from 57 to wins to 55. 

LeBron can handle the workload and can single-handedly make his team better when he needs to.  He only had one season in his first go-round in Cleveland where his FG% was over .500.  Miami had a much better supporting cast, and his FG% was .510 his worst year there and .567 his best.

Dr. Starcs:

Rme, I meant if he had stayed in okc and actually won a title.

Smh.

King Kong:


--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on July 05, 2016, 08:45:13 am ---Rme, I meant if he had stayed in okc and actually won a title.

Smh.

--- End quote ---

Here is what I think happened. Westbrook is leaving OKC after this season and let KD know that. So KD choose the best spot for him long term considering that.

KD could have resigned with OKC and given it one more go but then the GS opportunity is no longer an option in a year and he would be without Westbrook


The_Iceman:


--- Quote from: Adam Stokes on July 05, 2016, 08:27:12 am --- When Jordan had his first retirement the team went from 57 to wins to 55. 

--- End quote ---

Those 1993-1994 Bulls were interesting. Led by Pippen with 22 pts, 9 rebs, 5.5 asts, 3 stls per game. They were not good offensively at 22nd in the league, but their defense was 3rd. Their best players were Pippen, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong, Toni Kukoc, and Steve Kerr.

What people forget is that Michael came back the next season and played in the final 17 games and the playoffs. He averaged 27 pts per game, but they lost to the Magic in the Eastern Conference finals. The big reason was that Horace Grant went from the Bulls to the Magic, and Shaq and Horace torched them in that series for a combined 42 ppg, 24 rpg, and 3 blks. It wasn't until they got Rodman to defend the paint that they won another 3 straight titles.

All that to say, the team you have around you is important. Lebron left Cleveland because they did not put the players around him he needed to win a title. They were always going to get close but never win. Durant in OKC was different. They were up 3-1 on the Warriors, make a great trade this offseason to improve their team, and he was looking at returning to a starting rotation that looked like:

Westbrook
Oladipo
Durant
Ilyasova
Adams/Kanter

That team could have gotten Finals in the West. Instead, he pulls a weak move and goes and joins the team he couldn't put away when he had them down 3-1 in the Conf. Finals.

Dr. Starcs:

Excellent points Iceman

Hawg Red:

Thing about KD going to the Warriors is that he's not building his own legacy. He's latching onto one that had already started. Team he went to won an NBA title last year and went 73-9 this year and lost in 7 games in the Finals. They didn't need him. There's no legacy in that, not what that is all that respectable, anyway. Yeah, yeah....the guy just wants to win. We get that. Good for him. But his legacy will take a hit with a lot of fans, just like LeBron's did when he went to Miami. But a lot of those same people (myself included) that were not thrilled with LeBron going to Miami have a ton of respect for him winning one in Cleveland. There are fans that are okay with ***manufactured super teams and fans that aren't. Fans like great teams with great talent but there comes a point when it's viewed as too much and it kinda seems cheap in regard to competitiveness. It was like that with Miami but this takes it to another level because you're adding the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league to a team that was already being talked about as a generational team. Overkill to many, is what this is. How someone can not at least see and understand how fans wouldn't like that is beyond me. It's sports. Fans have always had an opinion on the decisions players and teams make. It's part of it. I don't get the complaining about what other fans think.




***The Warriors were already a super team, but that was okay because their Big 3 were drafted by the team. There was no exploiting circumstance and making a move that would not otherwise be possible like with this KD signing.

Dr. Starcs:

Also excellent points Hawg Red

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