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Scottie Pippen just stated on ESPN....

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curioushog42:

 ???

That Lebron James will be better than Michael Jordan! Hmmm... I always had a since that Scottie was always little jealousy of Michael.

mountainhog:

I dont watch nba much , but what ive seen on highlights of lebron he looks like he has the talent.  I dont know if its jealousy or not  , scottie may just know more than us .

Bad_Intentions:

I agree with Pippen. I love the NBA, and I've never seen anything like Lebron. To live up - and even surpass - the hype that was bestowed upon him entering the league, is absolutely amazing. Lebron is unique, that's for sure. At worst, he'll be just as good.

Lando Calrissian:

Lebron is only 21.

There is no reason why he couldn't be the next Jordan.

As far as the MVP voting goes this year, he's going up against guys (Nash and Kobe) who are in the prime of their careers.    Lebron hasn't even begun to reach his prime yet.

WILL CLINTON:

No matter what you THINK, or BELIEVE, LeBron is better at Jordan at the age of 21, than Jordan or anyone else at that age has ever been.  By the time he is 26 he will be UNSTOPPABLE.  I hate Kobe so I can't give him any props at all.

3kgthog:

Of course LeBron appears better than MJ at the age of 21. LeBron has been in the league since he was 18. MJ didn't get there until he was 21 after toiling around in Dean Smith's restrictive offense at UNC. If MJ had been in the NBA at 18, he would've been averaging 40 ppg by the time he hit 21. That's why it is extremely hard to compare kids from the old college days to the "jump from high school" kids. Those high school kids get a chance to adjust to the NBA game before they are even old enough to buy a beer.

I'd also like to point out that teams actually played defense back in the 80s. Most of the teams that LB and Kobe face are matadors on defense. The only two NBA teams that play defense are Detroit and San Antonio. That's why you'll see those two battle for NBA titles until their stars begin to creep into their mid-30s. It's not like these new school guys are facing Detroit's old school bad boys or Bird and McHale's Celtics.

Arkiejared:


--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 07:26:59 pm ---Don't know about that but he is definetly better than Kobe right now.

--- End quote ---

I disagree.  I think he's more of a team player than Kobe, and a better dude, but he doesn't have the D Kobe has.

chiti66:

LB is a beast, however, Kobe is the TRUTH!

Porquemada:


--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 05, 2006, 09:06:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 07:26:59 pm ---Don't know about that but he is definetly better than Kobe right now.

--- End quote ---
but he doesn't have the D Kobe has.

--- End quote ---
Not yet. It's usually one of the last things to develop for a player in the NBA and it depends a lot on your teammates help defense. If you know you're going to get dunked on if you miss a steal attempt or a block because your team can't move over to help, you're not as likely to gamble on defense, IMO.

Franchise_Hog:




"The best there ever was, the best there ever will be."

brooks74:

Lebron will have to win some championships to be considered in Jordan's class.  To do that, he needs some players around him.  One man teams don't win championships.  Either it's a team like the Pistons, or a team with two dominant players i.e the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq or the Bulls with MJ and Scottie.

Ugly Uncle:


--- Quote from: chiti66 on May 05, 2006, 09:08:51 pm ---LB is a beast, however, Kobe is the TRUTH!

--- End quote ---

tee hee hee...he just used Kobe and "truth" in the same sentence.

Cure:

Lebron is the real deal, but he's not better than Jordan yet...When he finds a way to make the teammates around him better than what they are and he manages to win at least 1 championship(in most people's eyes) Then he will be better than Jordan, but for now MICHAEL is the best that ever played..Lebron's just in his 3rd year..

WindyCityHog:


--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 10:18:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 05, 2006, 09:06:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 07:26:59 pm ---Don't know about that but he is definetly better than Kobe right now.

--- End quote ---

I disagree.  I think he's more of a team player than Kobe, and a better dude, but he doesn't have the D Kobe has.

--- End quote ---
LaBron's team won, Kobe's lost. Nuff said

--- End quote ---

Ummm...

Kobe's team has a Game 7 to play tomorrow night against Phoenix.

LJ is the next great thing.....but he has a LONG way to go to reach MJ status.

Marshfieldhog:

As soon as James wins 6 titles then we can talk, until then Jordan was on another level. One thing underated about Jordan was his defense which was overlooked by the highlight reel plays he made.

CiriusPorker:

i wish we could have karma back so i could smite all you lebron-huggers.

Ugly Uncle:

I could be wrong...but I view "the greatest" as something different than most.

When looking at an individual sport, and the "greatest" ever, I think it has to transend what ever era they played in.  In other words, were they not just the best of their era, but did they DOMINATE their era.

Babe Ruth...no one was even close to being on his level.  Could he have played today and still been THE Babe Ruth?  I don't know...but he was so far better than anyone he played with.

Pele(sp?) The soccer guy from Brazil...same.

Basketball...Jordan came into his prime when Bird and Magic were still playing.  These guys were two of the greatest ever.  However, Jordan was still head and shoulders better than what I consider to be 2 and 3 in the line of greatest.  I do not see LJ being just completely dominate in his sport (with less real super stars to challenge him) as were Jordan, Ruth, Gretzky(sp?), Pele, Tiger...etc.

LJ may be the torch barer for the NBA for years to come...but he will never be someone that changed the game like Jordan.  Like those other guys changed their games.  He might be the best of his era, but not the best of all time...he just (IMO) won't have the effect on his sport as Jordan did (and the others had on their sports).

pigture perfect:

OK, so LJ is going to be the next Jordon. I'll wake up when he is the next Bill Russell. (11 rings)

CiriusPorker:


--- Quote from: uglyuncle on May 05, 2006, 11:12:34 pm ---I could be wrong...but I view "the greatest" as something different than most.

When looking at an individual sport, and the "greatest" ever, I think it has to transend what ever era they played in.  In other words, were they not just the best of their era, but did they DOMINATE their era.

Babe Ruth...no one was even close to being on his level.  Could he have played today and still been THE Babe Ruth?  I don't know...but he was so far better than anyone he played with.

Pele(sp?) The soccer guy from Brazil...same.

Basketball...Jordan came into his prime when Bird and Magic were still playing.  These guys were two of the greatest ever.  However, Jordan was still head and shoulders better than what I consider to be 2 and 3 in the line of greatest.  I do not see LJ being just completely dominate in his sport (with less real super stars to challenge him) as were Jordan, Ruth, Gretzky(sp?), Pele, Tiger...etc.

LJ may be the torch barer for the NBA for years to come...but he will never be someone that changed the game like Jordan.  Like those other guys changed their games.  He might be the best of his era, but not the best of all time...he just (IMO) won't have the effect on his sport as Jordan did (and the others had on their sports).

--- End quote ---

I completely agree.  Jordan was so dominant there were about 9 different documentaries that came out for children about Jordan within the span of 2 years.  Jordan did things Kobe hasnt even achieved yet, much less Lebron.  Kobe may have scored 80 points in a season game, but Jordan socred more than 60 in a playoff game, Kobe hasn't done that. 

Jordan had a following that Lebron will NEVER surpass.  That is another part of greatness...Jordan's popularity was so high, non NBA fans would watch his games just to see what he would do.  People don't do that for Lebron...

mbgrulz:

i get so tired of the bill russell crap. we glorify the past so much it is sickening. when russell went toe-to-toe with wilt in the championships, he got dominated. the only problem was, bill had 4 other hall-of-famers on his team. did anybody ever even come close to getting the best of jordan in a championship? bill is one of the greatest, but he is not on MJ's level. robert horry has as many rings as jordan, but would anybody say they are on equal footing?

as for lebron, he is already as TALENTED as MJ, but that doesnt mean the will is there. jordan had more will than anyone, that is what seperated him. he'd slit your first born's throat for a W. lebron is showing more and more signs of having that will to win. he needs to get some help on his team before he can reach his full potential. hopefully his GM will draft well. jordan spent five or six years in the league before he won one, and it took getting phil jackson before he did. lebron WILL be the best player in the league for the next ten years, but the next JORDAN? he may be the king, but he's not yet a god.

Greyhands:

Arenas scored 36 points on LJ tonight in a head to head matchup . I dont remember enyone scoring 36 points on Jordan

rlamb:

Cyrus,  don't worry about lebron, JUST NAPOLEAN DYN-O-MITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOGALUM:

These threads talking about Lebron being like/better than Jordan are insane.

The first step for James is to become the best player in the NBA right now........which he is not. 

Pippen is a bitchy punk.  UCA or not, he's a selfish, jealous, overrated, coattail riding, spoiled whine bag.  (if you don't believe me, just ask Phil Jackson)

Let's have this conversation about James in 10 years or so........maybe.   He's got LOTS to do between now and then.


Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan I've seen......and he's still no Jordan. 

Adam Stokes:

  A triple-double in his first playoff game, game winning shots in game 3 and 5, passed up a game winning shot in game 6 to a teammate who won the game.  35.7 pts per game, 7.5 rebounds and 5.6 assists in the series.  MJ's only scored over 36 points in the playodds with a series win twice.  If LB isn't the next Michael Jordan, it won't be long.  Lebron's amazing, he just needs another guard (a scottie type player) and the cavs will be unbeatable.

  However, Lebron will never win more than 3 NBA championships. 

Cure:


--- Quote from: Marshfieldhog on May 05, 2006, 10:43:42 pm ---As soon as James wins 6 titles then we can talk, until then Jordan was on another level. One thing underated about Jordan was his defense which was overlooked by the highlight reel plays he made.

--- End quote ---
Yes good statement marshfield, the Bulls got a lot of their points off defense, especially Jordan and his highlight reel dunks. Lebron hasn't made his team a defense first team, so he still has a ways to go and some championships to win ;)

curioushog42:

Boy, i can't agree with you more. Scottie is a selfish indivdual. He tried to charge kid;s in Hamburg money for his autograph. I"m from McGehee and played against him in high school. People in Hamburg doesn't even acknowledge him. I have a friend that's from Hamburg, who stated that people in Hamburg think of Scottie as Judah or Peter in the Bible. Both were sellouts. I can';t stand to see him on TV. A two bit loser, who forgot where he came from.




--- Quote from: NuttsSacked on May 05, 2006, 09:11:46 pm ---Who gives a shitte what Pippen thinks.  That SOB hasn't step foot in Hamburg or promoted anything in the area since he graduated high school.  In my book he's just another uppity you know what and always has been.

--- End quote ---


southeasthog:


--- Quote from: DOGALUM on May 06, 2006, 04:12:35 am ---

 

Pippen is a bitchy punk.  UCA or not, he's a selfish, jealous, overrated, coattail riding, spoiled whine bag.  (if you don't believe me, just ask Phil Jackson)




 

--- End quote ---
Pippens brother is my mailman and even he can't stand him. Part of that may be that everyone is always asking about scottie.



I love HOOTERS

zwhogfan:

LeBron definitely has the skill, and he is better right now that Jordan was at his age. However, will he ever develop Jordan's drive and killer instinct. Kobe has it but he doesn't quite have the talent. James has the talent, but would he do anything to win a game, would he cut out a guy's heart if it meant he would win? I don't think he has that mean streak in him right now. However, if he develops it, then he could be better than Jordan.

mikeirwin:


--- Quote from: curioushog42 on May 06, 2006, 09:18:11 am ---Boy, i can't agree with you more. Scottie is a selfish indivdual. He tried to charge kid;s in Hamburg money for his autograph. I"m from McGehee and played against him in high school. People in Hamburg doesn't even acknowledge him. I have a friend that's from Hamburg, who stated that people in Hamburg think of Scottie as Judah or Peter in the Bible. Both were sellouts. I can';t stand to see him on TV. A two bit loser, who forgot where he came from.




--- Quote from: NuttsSacked on May 05, 2006, 09:11:46 pm ---Who gives a shitte what Pippen thinks.  That SOB hasn't step foot in Hamburg or promoted anything in the area since he graduated high school.  In my book he's just another uppity you know what and always has been.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
Having an opinion of Scottie Pippin is fine but this thread is close to getting out of hand. Be careful. We have rules against the kind of comment above.

Dwight_K_Shrute:


--- Quote from: mikeirwin on May 06, 2006, 11:18:00 am ---
--- Quote from: curioushog42 on May 06, 2006, 09:18:11 am ---Boy, i can't agree with you more. Scottie is a selfish indivdual. He tried to charge kid;s in Hamburg money for his autograph. I"m from McGehee and played against him in high school. People in Hamburg doesn't even acknowledge him. I have a friend that's from Hamburg, who stated that people in Hamburg think of Scottie as Judah or Peter in the Bible. Both were sellouts. I can';t stand to see him on TV. A two bit loser, who forgot where he came from.




--- Quote from: NuttsSacked on May 05, 2006, 09:11:46 pm ---Who gives a shitte what Pippen thinks.  That SOB hasn't step foot in Hamburg or promoted anything in the area since he graduated high school.  In my book he's just another uppity you know what and always has been.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
Having an opinion of Scottie Pippin is fine but this thread is close to getting out of hand. Be careful. We have rules against the kind of comment above.

--- End quote ---

I think it does cross the line, what's the difference between saying "you know what" and saying the actual word.  The intention and hate is still there.  Maybe you are the reason he doesn't go back to Hamburg.

whatsshakinbacon:

Go ask the valets at the Peabody what they think about Scottie.  I've heard numerous stories of his selfishness and he never acknowledged Michael to be "the man" because it took away from him.

I put little stock into what Pippen has to say when judging talent.

Bacon out...

clemensrules01:


--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 10:18:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 05, 2006, 09:06:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hogmania on May 05, 2006, 07:26:59 pm ---Don't know about that but he is definetly better than Kobe right now.

--- End quote ---

I disagree.  I think he's more of a team player than Kobe, and a better dude, but he doesn't have the D Kobe has.

--- End quote ---
LaBron's team won, Kobe's lost. Nuff said

--- End quote ---
kobe is playing against the phoenix suns and steve nash. lebron is playing against the wizards. nuff said.

mbgrulz:



LeBron is eye to eye with kobe right now. from here on out, kobe will be 2nd fiddle to LJ. lebron is 21 years old and is already in MVP contention every year. he used to lack the killer instinct, but anybody who knows basketball and saw him walk up and get into arenas' ear and make him miss those crucial FT's, knows he is starting to get it. not to mention he is averaging 35 ppg in the playoffs. or the fact that he has played 6 playoff games and has 2 GW's. kobe is a stud, but he wont ever be the MVP.

PigManLives:

Add 1 more good player to the Cavs, a Pippen type of player and the Cavs will dominate for years to come.  Yeah, James is THAT good.  I cant wait to see the CAVS vs. Lakers in the finals.  You can hate Kobe all you want, but he's the only player who can match Lebron.  IMO, both teams are only 1 or two good players away from being ing the finals.

dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya:

Jordan was great like LeBron when he was young.  All of us who saw him play, know that he was unstoppable on offense and a stopper on defense.

LeBron is as good offensively, but not defensively.  But IMO, they are equally good when looking at their young years.  Don't forget Jordan went up against defenses LeBron has never seen in his life: 80's Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics.

HOWEVER...Jordan became THE GREATEST when learned how get his team to win Championships.  He won 3 in a row, left, and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Until LeBron learns to win that many or more championships, Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever.

And don't give me that Bill Russell/Wilt are the greates b.s., they played against players that dribbled in circles with the same hand and had bodies like our Dad's.

Buff:


--- Quote from: dubyacee on May 05, 2006, 07:56:13 pm ---I hate Kobe so I can't give him any props at all.

--- End quote ---
this line sums up the argument.  it's a popularity contest for most.  "I don't like (insert name), so I'll make myself believe that (someone else) is better"

Lando Calrissian:

...Damn, I'm coming in on this late, but the Suns are STOMPING the Lakers right now.

Daaaaamn.

Arkiejared:


--- Quote from: notshavintilnuttgo on May 06, 2006, 04:21:47 pm ---Jordan was great like LeBron when he was young.  All of us who saw him play, know that he was unstoppable on offense and a stopper on defense.

LeBron is as good offensively, but not defensively.  But IMO, they are equally good when looking at their young years.  Don't forget Jordan went up against defenses LeBron has never seen in his life: 80's Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics.

HOWEVER...Jordan became THE GREATEST when learned how get his team to win Championships.  He won 3 in a row, left, and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Until LeBron learns to win that many or more championships, Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever.

And don't give me that Bill Russell/Wilt are the greates b.s., they played against players that dribbled in circles with the same hand and had bodies like our Dad's.

--- End quote ---

You think those D's were tougher than the current Pistons?



clemensrules01:


--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 08, 2006, 09:45:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: notshavintilnuttgo on May 06, 2006, 04:21:47 pm ---Jordan was great like LeBron when he was young.  All of us who saw him play, know that he was unstoppable on offense and a stopper on defense.

LeBron is as good offensively, but not defensively.  But IMO, they are equally good when looking at their young years.  Don't forget Jordan went up against defenses LeBron has never seen in his life: 80's Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics.

HOWEVER...Jordan became THE GREATEST when learned how get his team to win Championships.  He won 3 in a row, left, and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Until LeBron learns to win that many or more championships, Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever.

And don't give me that Bill Russell/Wilt are the greates b.s., they played against players that dribbled in circles with the same hand and had bodies like our Dad's.

--- End quote ---

You think those D's were tougher than the current Pistons?



--- End quote ---
the lakers and celtics were certainly better.

dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya:


--- Quote from: clemensrules01 on May 08, 2006, 09:47:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 08, 2006, 09:45:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: notshavintilnuttgo on May 06, 2006, 04:21:47 pm ---Jordan was great like LeBron when he was young.  All of us who saw him play, know that he was unstoppable on offense and a stopper on defense.

LeBron is as good offensively, but not defensively.  But IMO, they are equally good when looking at their young years.  Don't forget Jordan went up against defenses LeBron has never seen in his life: 80's Pistons, Lakers, and Celtics.

HOWEVER...Jordan became THE GREATEST when learned how get his team to win Championships.  He won 3 in a row, left, and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Until LeBron learns to win that many or more championships, Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever.

And don't give me that Bill Russell/Wilt are the greates b.s., they played against players that dribbled in circles with the same hand and had bodies like our Dad's.

--- End quote ---

You think those D's were tougher than the current Pistons?



--- End quote ---
the lakers and celtics were certainly better.

--- End quote ---
No doubt about it.  Even the 80's Pistons, as a team, were better defenders.  Ben Wallace is obviously unbelievable, but as a team, I think the 80's Pistons were better.  They were definitely meaner.

Rabid Bama Fan:


--- Quote from: Buffinator:  Reloaded on May 06, 2006, 09:24:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: dubyacee on May 05, 2006, 07:56:13 pm ---I hate Kobe so I can't give him any props at all.

--- End quote ---
this line sums up the argument.  it's a popularity contest for most.  "I don't like (insert name), so I'll make myself believe that (someone else) is better"

--- End quote ---

I have nothing against MJ, or LJ. BUT, I happen to think that Magic Johnson is STILL the best to ever play the game. The man could play any position on the floor, he scored, he rebounded, he passed like not to many others can.....he made the entire team MUCH better than they actually were. He collapsed the defense and dished to other players. MJ was certainly a better scorer, but i don't think he was better than Magic as far as an all around player.

dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya:


--- Quote from: Rabid Bama Fan on May 08, 2006, 10:39:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Buffinator:  Reloaded on May 06, 2006, 09:24:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: dubyacee on May 05, 2006, 07:56:13 pm ---I hate Kobe so I can't give him any props at all.

--- End quote ---
this line sums up the argument.  it's a popularity contest for most.  "I don't like (insert name), so I'll make myself believe that (someone else) is better"

--- End quote ---

I have nothing against MJ, or LJ. BUT, I happen to think that Magic Johnson is STILL the best to ever play the game. The man could play any position on the floor, he scored, he rebounded, he passed like not to many others can.....he made the entire team MUCH better than they actually were. He collapsed the defense and dished to other players. MJ was certainly a better scorer, but i don't think he was better than Magic as far as an all around player.

--- End quote ---
You make great points there.  Magic was unbelievable.  The only argument I would make would be the talent he had around him that was superior to what Jordan had:

Kareem
Cooper
Worthy
Scott


Arkiejared:


--- Quote from: notshavintilnuttgo on May 08, 2006, 10:01:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: clemensrules01 on May 08, 2006, 09:47:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 08, 2006, 09:45:28 pm ---You think those D's were tougher than the current Pistons?



--- End quote ---
the lakers and celtics were certainly better.

--- End quote ---
No doubt about it.  Even the 80's Pistons, as a team, were better defenders.  Ben Wallace is obviously unbelievable, but as a team, I think the 80's Pistons were better.  They were definitely meaner.

--- End quote ---

I'd like to find stats to compare....and records....remember this team is a 64 win team....one of the best ever..(5th best ever, I think).  Better than any team in the 80's, I believe.  Why?  Because of balanced scoring, and great D!  ;)

hogtheball:

Lets be fair - Lebron as a young NBA player vs. Jordan as a young NBA player.  Jordan wasn't the best player in the NBA his first four seasons (just the most talented).  I remember people arguing whether or not MJ was going to be better than Bird or Magic.  The argument against him was that he didn't have "it" - the ability to make players around him better.  At the time this was absolutely true.  MJ was great, but hadn't learned how to make those around him great yet. 

MJ finally learned that - probably from watching Bird and Magic - and became the best.  Kobe is probably just as talented as MJ, but has never learned how to make others around him great.  He never will. He can score 50 points all night long, but until the young players around him get better, he'll be on mediocre teams (even with the best coach in history).  If you want to win championships with Kobe, better put experienced players around him.

Will Lebron get "it."  That is the question.  Honestly, I think he's off to a better start than MJ.
For starters, Lebron averages almost 7 assist per game, compared to MJ's 4 (first three seasons).  Rebounds, again 7 to 4.  Scoring, MJ has a better average by around 7 per game.  As a perimeter shooter, James is head and shoulders above a young Jordan.  Most people don't remember how bad MJ was from outside. Jordan was a better defender than Lebron.

If this was 1987, and both MJ and Lebron were in their early 20s, which one would you build your team around (not knowing what you know now)?  I think there would be a pretty even split among most, with the edge going to Lebron for his size.  I could be wrong.

hogtheball:


--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 09, 2006, 08:49:11 am ---
--- Quote from: notshavintilnuttgo on May 08, 2006, 10:01:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: clemensrules01 on May 08, 2006, 09:47:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: Arkiejared on May 08, 2006, 09:45:28 pm ---You think those D's were tougher than the current Pistons?



--- End quote ---
the lakers and celtics were certainly better.

--- End quote ---
No doubt about it.  Even the 80's Pistons, as a team, were better defenders.  Ben Wallace is obviously unbelievable, but as a team, I think the 80's Pistons were better.  They were definitely meaner.

--- End quote ---

I'd like to find stats to compare....and records....remember this team is a 64 win team....one of the best ever..(5th best ever, I think).  Better than any team in the 80's, I believe.  Why?  Because of balanced scoring, and great D!  ;)

--- End quote ---

Of course, one could argue that expansion and free agency have watered down the talent in the league.  This, in turn, has tended to favor disciplined defensive teams more so than in the past.  The question is - does 64 wins in today's league equal 64 wins in the 80's.  I don't think so.

dana caldwell:

hogtheball,

good dialogue as almost always. disagree with this to a degree tho:
"Kobe is probably just as talented as MJ, but has never learned how to make others around him great.  He never will. He can score 50 points all night long, but until the young players around him get better, he'll be on mediocre teams (even with the best coach in history).  If you want to win championships with Kobe, better put experienced players around him."

as talented as MJ, in lots of ways, yes, some, no, and others, moreso. but i have to say bryant impressed me in the suns series. i've been a lakers fan since childhood, but was turned off by the shaq/kobe bunch and hadn't been turned back on until the suns series. i've been no bryant fan, by a long shot, but i thot he grew up tremendously, spurring teammates, congratulating them, head and ass slaps, actually trying the whole time.

maybe it was for show. but maybe not. if not, this guy seems to be able to actually lead when he's not looking over his shoulder at a just-as-gooder or whatever. in that case, he could help net a title.

not sure yet. we'll have to stay tuned.



Burnt Orange Sucks:

Dick Vitale said on Cowherd last week that when it's all said and done, James will be the best overall besketball player in the history of the sport.

......isn't he a DUKE fan or something like that?! ???

hogtheball:


--- Quote from: dana caldwell on May 09, 2006, 01:01:03 pm ---hogtheball,

good dialogue as almost always. disagree with this to a degree tho:
"Kobe is probably just as talented as MJ, but has never learned how to make others around him great.  He never will. He can score 50 points all night long, but until the young players around him get better, he'll be on mediocre teams (even with the best coach in history).  If you want to win championships with Kobe, better put experienced players around him."

as talented as MJ, in lots of ways, yes, some, no, and others, moreso. but i have to say bryant impressed me in the suns series. i've been a lakers fan since childhood, but was turned off by the shaq/kobe bunch and hadn't been turned back on until the suns series. i've been no bryant fan, by a long shot, but i thot he grew up tremendously, spurring teammates, congratulating them, head and ass slaps, actually trying the whole time.

maybe it was for show. but maybe not. if not, this guy seems to be able to actually lead when he's not looking over his shoulder at a just-as-gooder or whatever. in that case, he could help net a title.

not sure yet. we'll have to stay tuned.



--- End quote ---

Dana, Kobe is always impressive - like in the Pheonix series.  But players around him aren't ready to hit game winners come crunch-time.  Jordan needed the Paxtons, Pippens, and Kerrs and he knew it.  Kerr took game-winners the entire time he was with MJ.  Kobe doesn't know how to let other players develop confidence.  Sure, he cheers them on, but he isn't able to give up control when games are on the line.  The Lakers have a greater chance of losing a game if Kobe scores 35 or more than they do when he doesn't.

I think the second-half of game seven against Pheonix showed the severity of the problem.  Jackson had obviously told Kobe to get others involved. Kobe looked like he didn't know what to do (either that, or he was so mad he went on strike).   It was an UGLY half of basketball in game 7 of the playoffs.  I don't think I ever saw Jordan play that bad when a series was on the line. 

dana caldwell:

oh, i'll never debate jordan-kobe, better man, better team man, better winner, etc.

i actually thot in that game 7, kobe should have shot about every time he got the ball. to try and work in odom or anyone else in the second half ... hell, it was over by then unless of course bryant scored what, 81?

i'll not pretend to know 1,000th of what u do about the nba these days. casual, real casual, observer. just thot kobe did some much-needed growing in the suns series is all.

by the way, 'hey' to that too-good-looking-for-u wife of yours!

Arkiejared:

NONE of the will ever measure up to Shawn Bradley, though...IMHO. ;)

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