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LeBron Free Agency

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60 Minutes of Hell:

I didn't see anything else about this on the board, sorry if it's there and I missed it.

Anyway, LeBron James.  A little over four years ago, I was a big fan.  Then it happened, and like many others I jumped off the bandwagon and waved sayonara.  Now I'm reading the news and seeing lots of people talk about "reconciliation" and "serious talks" between King James and Cav's owner Dan Gilbert.  Let's just say this is real.  Let's even say that James takes his talents back to Cleveland.  Meaning, I would think, that Gilbert somehow puts together a supporting cast that can rival or beat the one that Riley's working on.  Ok, yeah, so this is a bit of a stretch.  But I digress.  Could you (could I?) ever forget about the last four years and consider LeBron the hometown hero that he used to be?  Could you ever consider him an underdog ever again?  If you're in the same boat as me, could you ever root for him again?  Perhaps I've had too much coffee (of course I have), but I'm having a tough time wrapping my mind around this one, and I'm anxious to hear what you guys think.

HF#1:

I'm not sure any supporting cast would make Lebron happy. 

BigSexyHog:

I would never want to play in Cleveland.  Once I left in would never look back.

poloprince:

Bron isnt going back to Cleveland. Its all smoke and mirrors

1highhog:

What's so different about Lebron than Kobe?  Kobe has forced his hand way to many times in La La land and now look at the mess their in out there.  He's forced Coaching changes, he forced the getting rid of Shaq, he's forced the hand so many times on player movement you can't even keep up.  He has said he's going elsewhere several times unless certain things aren't met, player changes, more money for him, etc,.  Now he makes far more than he should and at least Lebron and the other two of the "big 3" took less to make their team better in order to have a good team.  MJ done the same thing, he took less money in order to make it so Chicago could aquire a better supporting cast to surround him with.  There was nothing wrong with what Lebron done.  He played in Cleveland for 7 years, if he had of continued playing there, he still wouldn't have won anything, Gilbert is a joke and if I was Lebron after what Gilbert and the fans of Cleveland did after giving them 7 hard years of playing time there in that crap bowl of a city, I'd never think of going back.  I'd pick a team like Houston and play for them or se what Miami could come up with.

LRrazorback:

James is staying in Miami.

Dwade and bosh opted out of $42 mil over the next 2 years. He won't leave his buddies high and dry. Seems bosh could get the same $ from Houston but wade would have trouble getting that because of his injuries with his knees.  With josh mcroberts and Danny granger committed, not signed, this shows they're trying to upgrade the roster.  Their best chance to win is if they stay together and add a couple of good players after restructured deals.

I don't see him going anywhere.

jbell96:

I think LeBron is going back to Miami as there isn't a more attractive option out there. Cleveland has tons of young talent, but they also have a brand new coach, and most of that young talent is unproven.

That said, my gut tells me that Bosh will take Houston's max offer, as it is twice what he will get from the Heat, and he's from that area. Plus he wouldn't have to guard centers like he's had to do in Miami in recent years, and playing pick & pop with James Harden would be tailor made for his deadly mid range game.

That would also free up cap space for Miami to upgrade their supporting cast. I know Parsons & Deng are still FA's and adding one of them would help Miami considerably.


Big Nasty 34:

I think the "big 3" are all looking to get their Max deals. If that's the case, they can't all be in Miami, especially with the commitments of McRoberts and Granger. LeBron might stay but I would imagine Bosh will go.

The future is much brighter in Cleveland. I bet he's considering it more than some think.

jbell96:

I can't stand Pat Riley, but he's the best snake oil salesman in the NBA, so I bet he gets Lebron to at least extend for one or two more years. Then hopefully Wade will retire so I can have no problem being happy for LeBron winning titles.

Dr. Starcs:

Bosh to Houston, Lebron and Melo to Miami. Wade takes big pay cut is the latest rumor.

I don't really care. Lebron is all about the drama.

poloprince:


--- Quote from: Big Nasty 34 on July 08, 2014, 09:22:37 am ---I think the "big 3" are all looking to get their Max deals. If that's the case, they can't all be in Miami, especially with the commitments of McRoberts and Granger. LeBron might stay but I would imagine Bosh will go.

The future is much brighter in Cleveland. I bet he's considering it more than some think.

--- End quote ---

Cleveland won 33 games last year and the best player has been injured every year since highschool. Doesn't sound like a bright future.

Big Nasty 34:


--- Quote from: poloprince on July 08, 2014, 10:06:58 am ---Cleveland won 33 games last year and the best player has been injured every year since highschool. Doesn't sound like a bright future.

--- End quote ---
Irving still played 71 games.
So, a future of washed up Wade, Danny Granger, and Josh McRoberts all of which haven't been healthy themselves is more appealing than a young Kyrie Irving and Andrew Wiggins?

Don't see Carmelo going to Miami. And he wouldn't play D required to win a championship so I wouldn't want him if I were James.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: poloprince on July 08, 2014, 10:06:58 am ---Cleveland won 33 games last year and the best player has been injured every year since highschool. Doesn't sound like a bright future.

--- End quote ---

Head in sand. Wiggins, Thompson, Irving, Waiters, Bennett, Varejao, Jack, Zeller, plus up to three possible 1st rounders in 2015.

Trade some of that (Bennett/Varejao/two first rounders) for KLove, and then let us know how bright it is.

-Blu:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 08:39:29 am ---What's so different about Lebron than Kobe?  Kobe has forced his hand way to many times in La La land and now look at the mess their in out there.  He's forced Coaching changes, he forced the getting rid of Shaq, he's forced the hand so many times on player movement you can't even keep up.  He has said he's going elsewhere several times unless certain things aren't met, player changes, more money for him, etc,.  Now he makes far more than he should and at least Lebron and the other two of the "big 3" took less to make their team better in order to have a good team.  MJ done the same thing, he took less money in order to make it so Chicago could aquire a better supporting cast to surround him with.  There was nothing wrong with what Lebron done.  He played in Cleveland for 7 years, if he had of continued playing there, he still wouldn't have won anything, Gilbert is a joke and if I was Lebron after what Gilbert and the fans of Cleveland did after giving them 7 hard years of playing time there in that crap bowl of a city, I'd never think of going back.  I'd pick a team like Houston and play for them or se what Miami could come up with.

--- End quote ---

^This right here.

After the Gilbert letter I would never play for Cleveland again as long as he's the owner if I'm Lebron, and I would let the fans know that he's the reason I wouldn't consider going there again.  I must admit Lebron doing the whole "decision" segment on sportscenter was a little much and wasn't a good look for Lebron, but I mean your talking about a 25 year old at the time that the whole world is waiting to hear where he was going, and he started "feeling himself" a little bit too much, and he's admitted he made a mistake doing that now.  Dan Gilbert on the other hand is a middle-aged billionaire who has hundreds of employees, and he wrote a spiteful letter, that sounded like he was in jr. high and just had his first breakup.  If he would have later said he made a mistake writing it I could maybe see some reconciliation there, but he was asked about it last year and he still said he didn't regret anything about it.

And I'm confused on why Gilbert and Cleveland are all getting excited about the though of him coming back, didn't they burn his jerseys, and make commercials calling him a liar and quitter.  And Gilbert said he was a traitor and not a true Cleveland native and all that.  If they really think he's all of that why in the world would they want him back? 

Hawg Red:

He isn't going anywhere, and it's his agent that is giving Cleveland hope. Seems that the agent wants him in Cleveland but LeBron has not acted like someone ready to leave his current situation.

-Blu:


--- Quote from: Hawg Red on July 08, 2014, 10:46:22 am ---He isn't going anywhere, and it's his agent that is giving Cleveland hope. Seems that the agent wants him in Cleveland but LeBron has not acted like someone ready to leave his current situation.

--- End quote ---

I'm not even sure if that's the whole story either.  Now, this is just my opinion, but I think the team is ready for Bosh to move on, and the whole Cleveland thing and all that is just a way to get him to start looking elsewhere.  I think that's why you also see them bringing in Josh McRoberts, who isn't as good as Bosh, but is a good player and plays the same role. 

I think what will ultimately happen is, Bosh will go to Houston, Wade will take a pretty big paycut, and then they'll look at either trying to lure Melo or Kevin Love in.  But I agree I don't think Lebron is going anywhere, neither is Wade, only person in question is Bosh, and who they will bring in if Bosh indeed leaves.

Hawg Red:

Would love to have Bosh in Houston.

Dr. Starcs:

Difference between Kobe and lbj?

Oh let me count the ways. And I don't like either.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 08:39:29 am --- MJ done the same thing, he took less money in order to make it so Chicago could aquire a better supporting cast to surround him with. 

--- End quote ---

In MJ's last two seasons he made $30 & $33 million from the Bulls.

In '91 alone the entire cap was limited to roughly $12 million. By '95 it had jumped up to $16 million. It's an entirely different NBA than it was back then.

http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries91.txt

-Blu:


--- Quote from: Hawg Red on July 08, 2014, 10:57:08 am ---Would love to have Bosh in Houston.

--- End quote ---

He would fit in well with their system playing the stretch 4.  Rather than playing the 5 position with Miami.

Hawg Red:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 11:04:13 am ---I'm not sure what the CBA & salary cap looked like betweeen 1992 and the '96-'97 season, but in MJ's last two seasons he made $30 & $33 million from the Bulls.

In '91 alone the entire cap was limited to roughly $12 million.

http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries91.txt

--- End quote ---

Great point.

Completely different worlds, then and now, in so many different ways. Money was different, rules (both on-court and CBA) were different, media was different, fan attitudes were different, player attitudes were different, etc. The players today are a product of their environment just like the players back then were a product of theirs. Whatever LeBron is doing in free agency now, Jordan likely would have done if operating under the same circumstances.

poloprince:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 10:19:56 am ---Head in sand. Wiggins, Thompson, Irving, Waiters, Bennett, Varejao, Jack, Zeller, plus up to three possible 1st rounders in 2015.

Trade some of that (Bennett/Varejao/two first rounders) for KLove, and then let us know how bright it is.

--- End quote ---

They would have to get rid of 2 or 3 players to even give Bron a max deal.  K Love isn't happening.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: poloprince on July 08, 2014, 11:11:08 am ---They would have to get rid of 2 or 3 players to even give Bron a max deal.  K Love isn't happening.

--- End quote ---

They are plenty deep enough to get rid of a few players, namely Waiters, Jack, Varejao, and/or Wiggins. It's been documented on ESPN (Tom Penn) the past few days how they can get it done.

KLove is happening for some team. If LeBron goes to Cleveland, KLove may or may not have indicated that he would sign an extension there. Who can offer a better package than Cleveland (Wiggins, size, + multiple future 1sts in '15)?



Razorbackwarrior79:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 11:14:30 am ---They are plenty deep enough to get rid of a few players, namely Waiters, Jack, Varejao, and/or Wiggins. It's been documented on ESPN (Tom Penn) the past few days how they can get it done.

KLove is happening for some team. If LeBron goes to Cleveland, KLove may or may not have indicated that he would sign an extension there. Who can offer a better package than Cleveland (Wiggins, size, + multiple future 1sts in '15)?

--- End quote ---

Yeah the Cavs would jettison 3/4 of their roster to manuever a max deal for Lebron. You would be crazy not too! Keep Kyrie as the only untouchable and your set.

In regards to K Love the T Wolves HAVE to unload him because they can't dare be caught with their pants down and let him walk. Without K Love they are virtually talentless with Rubio's constant health issues. And from any business standpoint nobody can make the T Wolves a better offer then the Cavs....... Nobody. It is well known that K Love would prefer to go back to the West Coast but passing up the chance to play with Bron and Irving will be tough. The Lakers should sell out for the guy and would be his preferred destination but so far have seemed unwilling or unable.

1highhog:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 11:04:13 am ---In MJ's last two seasons he made $30 & $33 million from the Bulls.

In '91 alone the entire cap was limited to roughly $12 million. By '95 it had jumped up to $16 million. It's an entirely different NBA than it was back then.

http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries91.txt

--- End quote ---

MJ also took a salary cut to bring in some talent to put around him.  MJ was never the highest paid player in the League during the time he played if I remember correctly.  And I'm talking about paid by the League, not in endorsements, MJ probably still makes more in endorsements that just about any NBA player does now.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 12:44:03 pm ---MJ also took a salary cut to bring in some talent to put around him.  MJ was never the highest paid player in the League during the time he played if I remember correctly.  And I'm talking about paid by the League, not in endorsements, MJ probably still makes more in endorsements that just about any NBA player does now.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, the Bulls paid him $30 & $33 million over his last two seasons. Each was a one year contract. That's not taking one for the team. Faaaaaar from it. That makes Kobe look like a saint. But when did MJ ever purposefully take a salary cut to help his team? He always took top dollar each time his contract came up for renewal.

His rookie contract with the Bulls was for five years, at less than $1 million per season. There's little negotiation leverage there. His second contract though was an eight year deal, which when signed made him the highest paid player in American sports. As the cap increased and other players signed on for more $, Jordan could have theoretically held out for more money at any point, but he didn't need or want to. For the majority of that contract he was still among the highest paid players though.

See below:


--- Quote ---"Jordan was just concluding his eight-year $25 million contract with the Bulls, signed in 1988 as the Bulls only re-negotiation ever. It was precedent setting at the time with no athlete ever making as much, but soon outdated with expanding league revenue and salary cap. Jordan stuck to it, and perhaps as thanks, the Bulls paid him his full basketball salary the 18 months Jordan was out playing baseball."

Jordan returned in March 1995, and the Bulls won their fourth championship and record 72 games in 1995-96. There was a brief labor impasse lockout and signing moratorium at the beginning of July 1996, and the Knicks were said ready to pounce then with Falk's approval. Perhaps it was just a Falk bargaining ploy, which is hardly uncommon.

The Bulls, because of the Bird exception, could pay Jordan more than any team, just like the Cavs with James. But the word was Jordan could make up the money in New York easily in other sources. Falk initially told the Bulls it would take a salary starting in the mid to high $20s of millions of dollars to sign Jordan, so there apparently was some hesitation as no one in the NBA made anywhere near that."

In the end, the Bulls topped that figure at $30 million, and maybe the New York threat was the reason. Falk, to this day, insists there never was one, though that's not what you hear around the NBA offices in New York. Perhaps Jordan is telling James now what really went on and what to do.

--- End quote ---

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_081201.html



1highhog:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 01:43:36 pm ---Yeah, the Bulls paid him $30 & $33 million over his last two seasons. Each was a one year contract. That's not taking one for the team. Faaaaaar from it. That makes Kobe look like a saint. But when did MJ ever purposefully take a salary cut to help his team? He always took top dollar each time his contract came up for renewal.

His rookie contract with the Bulls was for five years, at less than $1 million per season. There's little negotiation leverage there. His second contract though was an eight year deal, which when signed made him the highest paid player in American sports. As the cap increased and other players signed on for more $, Jordan could have theoretically held out for more money at any point, but he didn't need or want to. For the majority of that contract he was still among the highest paid players though.

See below:

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_081201.html



--- End quote ---

I'm not going to go looking through old articles just to argue a stupid point, but the reason MJ didn't take a pay raise when he could have or it was time to was because he wanted the team around him better.  You can think what you want I I'll believe the truth, how's that?  Besides, MJ stays with Chicago instead of "playing" baseball, they win 8 instead of 6.  MJ deserved every penny he got from that organization.  Kobe on the other hand, if he wasn't such a horses ass, he might would have won more titles to if he wouldn't have kept running people off.  He had a far more loaded team, and still only managed to win 5.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 02:47:12 pm ---I'm not going to go looking through old articles just to argue a stupid point, but the reason MJ didn't take a pay raise when he could have or it was time to was because he wanted the team around him better.  You can think what you want I I'll believe the truth, how's that? 

--- End quote ---

LOL, whatever. History says otherwise. Pippen never made more than $2.75 million/year as a Bull, so I'm not sure who MJ was supposedly taking a paycut for (or when). I can provide links to any NBA salary from the 85-86 season on.

You are free to believe whatever it is that you wish to believe though. If you find a fact or two to support your 'truth,' please share it. I'm not above learning something new.

1highhog:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 03:55:55 pm ---LOL, whatever. History says otherwise. Pippen never made more than $2.75 million/year as a Bull, so I'm not sure who MJ was supposedly taking a paycut for (or when). I can provide links to any NBA salary from the 85-86 season on.

You are free to believe whatever it is that you wish to believe though. If you find a fact or two to support your 'truth,' please share it. I'm not above learning something new.

--- End quote ---

So, you can (provide links to any NBA salary from the 85-86 season on).  Wellll, wooo foockity doooo!  Ain't you the smart one!  What does that prove about whether MJ either didn't take more money when he could have or whatever the &*%@ I said he did?  In any case, if you were alive back then, and maybe you was, probably sucking your Mama's teat still, but regardless of whether you believe it or not, MJ did not take the money that could have been his, remember, we're talking the best player possibly ever, because he wanted a better team around him.  Tell me this oh great one who can snap his fingers and just pull all kinds of info from the 80's onward on NBA players forward, how many of those years did MJ lead the League in being the highest paid player?

azhog10:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 05:22:42 pm ---So, you can (provide links to any NBA salary from the 85-86 season on).  Wellll, wooo foockity doooo!  Ain't you the smart one!  What does that prove about whether MJ either didn't take more money when he could have or whatever the &*%@ I said he did?  In any case, if you were alive back then, and maybe you was, probably sucking your Mama's teat still, but regardless of whether you believe it or not, MJ did not take the money that could have been his, remember, we're talking the best player possibly ever, because he wanted a better team around him.  Tell me this oh great one who can snap his fingers and just pull all kinds of info from the 80's onward on NBA players forward, how many of those years did MJ lead the League in being the highest paid player?

--- End quote ---
Not to labor the point. However I think you are looking at it all wrong. Jordan didn't take a pay cut. What he didnt do was opt out of his contract and ask for a bigger one. The Bulls then, forked over the cash that he should have been getting the prior 8 years. I also wouldn't look at it like Jordan took a pay cut to have better players around him. Instead I would look at it like the players around him took a pay cut to play with what was the greatest basketball player of all time.

1highhog:


--- Quote from: azhog10 on July 08, 2014, 05:34:56 pm ---Not to labor the point. However I think you are looking at it all wrong. Jordan didn't take a pay cut. What he didnt do was opt out of his contract and ask for a bigger one. The Bulls then, forked over the cash that he should have been getting the prior 8 years. I also wouldn't look at it like Jordan took a pay cut to have better players around him. Instead I would look at it like the players around him took a pay cut to play with what was the greatest basketball player of all time.

--- End quote ---

I'll buy that one, maybe it wasn't a paycut, but I know I remember him not taking money that was due him in order for Chicago to be able to bring in who they needed in order to give the Bulls what they needed to get past the Pistons.

And then again later when they had to retool a little for their 2nd 3-peat.

HawgAdvocate:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 05:51:21 pm ---maybe it wasn't a paycut
--- End quote ---

See.


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 05:51:21 pm ---And then again later when they had to retool a little for their 2nd 3-peat.

--- End quote ---

Annnnd the train is back off the tracks. MJ made roughly $67 million over those last three seasons.

hvsupastar:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 08:39:29 am ---What's so different about Lebron than Kobe?  Kobe has forced his hand way to many times in La La land and now look at the mess their in out there.  He's forced Coaching changes, he forced the getting rid of Shaq, he's forced the hand so many times on player movement you can't even keep up.  He has said he's going elsewhere several times unless certain things aren't met, player changes, more money for him, etc,.  Now he makes far more than he should and at least Lebron and the other two of the "big 3" took less to make their team better in order to have a good team.  MJ done the same thing, he took less money in order to make it so Chicago could aquire a better supporting cast to surround him with.  There was nothing wrong with what Lebron done.  He played in Cleveland for 7 years, if he had of continued playing there, he still wouldn't have won anything, Gilbert is a joke and if I was Lebron after what Gilbert and the fans of Cleveland did after giving them 7 hard years of playing time there in that crap bowl of a city, I'd never think of going back.  I'd pick a team like Houston and play for them or se what Miami could come up with.

--- End quote ---

So much inaccurate info in this post.

1highhog:


--- Quote from: hvsupastar on July 08, 2014, 07:51:53 pm ---So much inaccurate info in this post.

--- End quote ---

Explain yourself, tell me and everyone else every inaccurate statement in my post.

root_hawg:

Bosh to Houston; LeBron and Melo to Miami

1highhog:


--- Quote from: HawgAdvocate on July 08, 2014, 07:02:15 pm ---See.

Annnnd the train is back off the tracks. MJ made roughly $67 million over those last three seasons.

--- End quote ---

You're just like those idiots that just take out small tidbits of a whole sentence just to make your point.  I didn't agree with you, I just agreed with that one point but your still wrong on everything else regarding what I brought out about MJ and you didn't answer my post asking you to jughead.

HiggiePiggy:


--- Quote from: root_hawg on July 08, 2014, 08:48:26 pm ---Bosh to Houston; LeBron and Melo to Miami

--- End quote ---

Melo on any team is a cancer.  I don't know if Lebron can handle being on the same team with him. 

1highhog:


--- Quote from: HiggiePiggy on July 08, 2014, 09:02:15 pm ---Melo on any team is a cancer.  I don't know if Lebron can handle being on the same team with him. 

--- End quote ---

You're right on that, Melo will bring disharmony to any team.  Lebron needs to either leave Miami if they don't sign anyone else or if they lose Bosh they need to pick up Deng, and hopefully a very good PG that can play somewhat close to Parker on defense.

McKdaddy:

The always informative, Zach Lowe...

http://grantland.com/features/nba-miami-heat-double-standard-contract-sacrifice-lebron-james-chris-bosh-houston-rockets-free-agency/


onebadrubi:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 09:14:49 pm ---You're right on that, Melo will bring disharmony to any team.  Lebron needs to either leave Miami if they don't sign anyone else or if they lose Bosh they need to pick up Deng, and hopefully a very good PG that can play somewhat close to Parker on defense.

--- End quote ---

You don't think Napier can be a top point guard?  I think he could be a top 5-8 point guard in the league by end of year 2.  Lebron is a board banger away from dominating the league.  Bosh is a lot similar to what mickelson was to us.  A good shooter that is tall, not a tall post player.  Bosh would probably excel in Houston playing off Howard, Beverly, and Harden. 

I don't think Lebron really knows where he wants to go yet.  You really can't knock this guy, what has he done to harm the game?  You can't use his decision against him to leave Cleveland, it wasn't great but he did raise millions off it for charity, and might have been done a little wrong, but after all he was a free agent and that is the ONLY remotely bad mark next to this guys name.  That is saying more than anyone on this forum can fathom coming from where he did. 

Melo is a selfish thug that can shoot.  The guy is lazy and out of shape to play any type of defense and still be effective.  He'd be stupid to leave NY because of that. 

I still like everything around the Lebron back to Cleveland.  They have talent all around him there, might need to add a decent PG but that would be it? 

hvsupastar:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 08:47:21 pm ---Explain yourself, tell me and everyone else every inaccurate statement in my post.

--- End quote ---

Basically everything you said about Kobe. Kobe never forced a coaching change. Kobe didn't give the ultimatum over Shaq, Shaq did that. Kobe has not often threatened to leave, he only tested free agency one time.

You said MJ took less money for a better team when in fact Jordan actually had what was at the time record breaking money. Actually he made 8m more than Kobe will next year.

And with LeBron, it's not that he left for Miami that was wrong. It's how he went about it, that needs no explanation

yraciv:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 08:39:29 am ---What's so different about Lebron than Kobe?  Kobe has forced his hand way to many times in La La land and now look at the mess their in out there.  He's forced Coaching changes, he forced the getting rid of Shaq, he's forced the hand so many times on player movement you can't even keep up.  He has said he's going elsewhere several times unless certain things aren't met, player changes, more money for him, etc,.  Now he makes far more than he should and at least Lebron and the other two of the "big 3" took less to make their team better in order to have a good team.  MJ done the same thing, he took less money in order to make it so Chicago could aquire a better supporting cast to surround him with.  There was nothing wrong with what Lebron done.  He played in Cleveland for 7 years, if he had of continued playing there, he still wouldn't have won anything, Gilbert is a joke and if I was Lebron after what Gilbert and the fans of Cleveland did after giving them 7 hard years of playing time there in that crap bowl of a city, I'd never think of going back.  I'd pick a team like Houston and play for them or se what Miami could come up with.

--- End quote ---

What is the difference? Lebron isn't all about the money. Kobe doesn't take paycuts to build a contender, Lebron does.  That being said, he is the best player in the game and is just searching for his best place to win.  I can't fault that!  Of course, Kobe has remained loyal to the Lakers and that is admirable, but still it's LA, easier to stay with a historic franchise.  No one should fault Lebron for leaving Cleveland to win, and most Cleveland fans get that.  They have an incompetent owner, little history, & are not a glamorous location.  For these reasons, I think it is a smokescreen.  The only reason this is a conversation is because they have lucked their way into 3 #1 picks, and have the best young PG in the game.  And no matter what happened, it's still Lebron's home.

Fault him for the decision.  Fault him for beating your favorite team.  But Lebron is a pretty admirable star athlete, very personable, very charitable, and has done a lot more good than wrong since taking his talents to South Beach.  The people of Cleveland will recognize that, and welcome him back with open arms.

hardtimes79:

As HA stated Mj never took any kind of pay cut.  The cap and contracts were very much different back then.  Mj last two contracts with the bulls was the beginning of players getting paid double diits in millions.  Those two years he made more than rest of the roster combined and this was after the bulls were trying to figure out make their numbers work to keep the team together.  Pip didn't start making real serious money until he left the bulls.   I despise Kobe but he did not ask for shaq to be traded, shaq forced that move and has gone on record saying what happened.  Kobe had once instance where he threatened to leave and the lakers got him pau gasol.  On the topic of Melo, you have got to blind saying melo is out of shape and a cancer to teams.  Melo doesn't play great defense but he gets a bad rap for his teams failures.  I mean really look at the teams he's played with and tell me where those teams were supposed to go.

hvsupastar:

And let's be honest about 'the decision' 4 years ago. It's probably not that big of a deal if it's not LeBron doing it to Cleveland, which is relatively home for him

latrops:


--- Quote from: hvsupastar on July 09, 2014, 06:34:17 am ---And let's be honest about 'the decision' 4 years ago. It's probably not that big of a deal if it's not LeBron doing it to Cleveland, which is relatively home for him

--- End quote ---

That is a big part of it.  He is an Akron native.  In Ohio he was a hero.  Something like Mcfadden transferring to Florida prior to his junior season.  Devastating to Ohio basketball fans.

hawgsmellgud:


--- Quote from: 1highhog on July 08, 2014, 05:22:42 pm ---So, you can (provide links to any NBA salary from the 85-86 season on).  Wellll, wooo foockity doooo!  Ain't you the smart one!  What does that prove about whether MJ either didn't take more money when he could have or whatever the &*%@ I said he did?  In any case, if you were alive back then, and maybe you was, probably sucking your Mama's teat still, but regardless of whether you believe it or not, MJ did not take the money that could have been his, remember, we're talking the best player possibly ever, because he wanted a better team around him.  Tell me this oh great one who can snap his fingers and just pull all kinds of info from the 80's onward on NBA players forward, how many of those years did MJ lead the League in being the highest paid player?

--- End quote ---


Are you serious? You have heard of this thing called the internet, and you do know that you can look up stuff that happened as late as yesterday. You can't just keep saying "I am telling the truth" without facts, when the other guy is bringing facts.

I for one thought that I always remembered Jordan being upset about how much he was being paid. How he wasn't the highest paid yada, yada. Basically when this argument started I would have been on your side of it. However, an amazing thing happened here. The Advocate brought facts, and you called names. Now I know the real truth, and you aren't telling it.


Dr. Starcs:

Not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7........just 2

60 Minutes of Hell:


--- Quote from: yraciv on July 08, 2014, 11:26:44 pm ---For these reasons, I think it is a smokescreen.

--- End quote ---

Ah, yes.  That's more like it.

1highhog:


--- Quote from: hawgsmellgud on July 09, 2014, 08:02:51 am ---
Are you serious? You have heard of this thing called the internet, and you do know that you can look up stuff that happened as late as yesterday. You can't just keep saying "I am telling the truth" without facts, when the other guy is bringing facts.

I for one thought that I always remembered Jordan being upset about how much he was being paid. How he wasn't the highest paid yada, yada. Basically when this argument started I would have been on your side of it. However, an amazing thing happened here. The Advocate brought facts, and you called names. Now I know the real truth, and you aren't telling it.


--- End quote ---

You my friend just said you "thought" that I always remembered Jordan being upset about how much he was being paid. How he wasn't the highest paid yada, yada.  Okay, since You have heard of this thing called the internet, and you do know that you can look up stuff that happened as late as yesterday. Well, you can't just say I thought without facts, look this stuff up where MJ you always remembered Jordan being upset over how much he was being paid, how he wasn't always the highest paid yada, yada. 

1highhog:


--- Quote from: hardtimes79 on July 09, 2014, 02:18:20 am ---As HA stated Mj never took any kind of pay cut.  The cap and contracts were very much different back then.  Mj last two contracts with the bulls was the beginning of players getting paid double diits in millions.  Those two years he made more than rest of the roster combined and this was after the bulls were trying to figure out make their numbers work to keep the team together.  Pip didn't start making real serious money until he left the bulls.   I despise Kobe but he did not ask for shaq to be traded, shaq forced that move and has gone on record saying what happened.  Kobe had once instance where he threatened to leave and the lakers got him pau gasol.  On the topic of Melo, you have got to blind saying melo is out of shape and a cancer to teams.  Melo doesn't play great defense but he gets a bad rap for his teams failures.  I mean really look at the teams he's played with and tell me where those teams were supposed to go.

--- End quote ---

I know their are some Laker lovers on this Board, now whether they back this up or not remains to be seen.  Kobe has more than once said he'd go, you are right that one of the times was The Gasol trade, another was getting him some great talent post Howard. 

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