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Hogville's pulse on LeBron

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popcornhog:

Just curious.

Hawgndaaz:

there's a pretty big racial barrier between those that love the heat and those that hate the heat. I have many friends on both sides of the love/hate spectrum, and the divide is very racially biased.


in short, it seems more of my minority friends were blowing up twitter last night about king james.

more of my Caucasian friends were doing the same anti-LeBron.



not real sure why, but it's something I have observed quite a bit of this year.

PonderinHog:

Physically, he's in a league of his own.  Between the ears, he's inconsistent.  You never know what you're going to get.  Box of chocolates ???

popcornhog:


--- Quote from: Hawgndaaz on June 19, 2013, 09:21:09 am ---there's a pretty big racial barrier between those that love the heat and those that hate the heat. I have many friends on both sides of the love/hate spectrum, and the divide is very racially biased.


in short, it seems more of my minority friends were blowing up twitter last night about king james.

more of my Caucasian friends were doing the same anti-LeBron.



not real sure why, but it's something I have observed quite a bit of this year.

--- End quote ---

I've not noticed that divide. I have seen a divide between Kobe/Laker fans and Kobe/Laker haters. The former tend to hate LeBron, the former love him.

Overall I am seeing way more LeBron hate and I really don't get it. I'm neutral, but the guy is a great player and a good kid -- what's to hate?

jry04:

Love watching him when he is on, but don't care for complaining after the play. Best player on the planet, and getting close to being the best ever based on talent alone(not talking about how many rings he has.) Magic is probably the only player that can compare to LBJ's ability to play and defend any position on the court.

All of the greats, including Kobe and MJ have struggled in games during finals. He still has 10 years left in his career, so it is nearly impossible to say he will end up having a better career than some of the former greats, but if he wins Thursday I think he could get 4 or 5 more in the 10 years left in his career.

popcornhog:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 09:27:01 am ---Love watching him when he is on, but don't care for complaining after the play. Best player on the planet, and getting close to being the best ever based on talent alone(not talking about how many rings he has.) Magic is probably the only player that can compare to LBJ's ability to play and defend any position on the court.

All of the greats, including Kobe and MJ have struggled in games during finals. He still has 10 years left in his career, so it is nearly impossible to say he will end up having a better career than some of the former greats, but if he wins Thursday I think he could get 4 or 5 more in the 10 years left in his career.

--- End quote ---

That's the crazy thing -- he's Magic Johnson in Karl Malone's body with a better jumper. Physically the guy is just a freak.

BigSexyHog:

I hated the guy when he first entered the NBA.  Now I kind of enjoy watching him play when he is on.  I still don't love the guy but he is flat out awesome when he is on.  I like D-Wade a lot better but talking about shutting it down.  He might never recover from the knee injury.

Give my Lebron over that jack ass Kobe any day of the week.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 09:27:01 am ---Love watching him when he is on, but don't care for complaining after the play. Best player on the planet, and getting close to being the best ever based on talent alone(not talking about how many rings he has.) Magic is probably the only player that can compare to LBJ's ability to play and defend any position on the court.

All of the greats, including Kobe and MJ have struggled in games during finals. He still has 10 years left in his career, so it is nearly impossible to say he will end up having a better career than some of the former greats, but if he wins Thursday I think he could get 4 or 5 more in the 10 years left in his career.

--- End quote ---

I think it's a little ambitious to project anyone to have a 20 year NBA career. Especially someone who's had to carry the load like LeBron James has his entire career. I don't see him playing until he's 38 years old. I think he'll want to retire as an All-Star caliber player, so I'll give him another 6 or 7 years.

jry04:


--- Quote from: popcornhog on June 19, 2013, 09:25:13 am ---I've not noticed that divide. I have seen a divide between Kobe/Laker fans and Kobe/Laker haters. The former tend to hate LeBron, the former love him.

Overall I am seeing way more LeBron hate and I really don't get it. I'm neutral, but the guy is a great player and a good kid -- what's to hate?

--- End quote ---
I agree 100%. People say he flops too much, but every player in the NBA flops. Look at Parker last night flailing his arms and dropping like a rock after faking getting hit by an elbow on 2 different plays.

Every player complains to the ref if they miss a shot and feel contact. KD has a reputation for being quiet and polite, and he was leading the league in technicals at one point this season.

People want to hate him for The Decision, but he donated all of that money to charity. Yes, it was a little much for him to do that, but it is time to get over it. Many said if he went to Chicago they wouldn't hate him as much, but if he went to Chicago he would have been joining a much better team in my opinion.

Dogtown Donkey:

My personal feelings on LeBron are that he's a good guy and a good example for the NBA. He's never going to get in trouble and embarrass anyone. He seems like a genuinely nice and caring guy for the most part.

As a player, he's an all-time great but I can't stand it when people mention him as possibly being the greatest ever. I just don't think it has that in him. There have just been too many times when he was "on" like he needed to be in the Finals. You never saw that with guys like Jordan or Kobe. Bad games happen but there's a difference between just not having it that day and not being there, and not being there and stepping up as been a problem of his. Still, this guy could end up with 5 or so rings. If that happens, I don't see how he's not in the top 5 all-time. It's just that intangible "killer instinct" that holds him back because there's been too many games, Finals games, where he didn't try to take over when his team needed to.

He's just a polarizing guy because everyone sees how good he really is and how much of a physical freak he is, so naturally, they expect to see him challenge Jordan for the greatest ever and he just really hasn't do that when it matters most. That's my lasting impression of LeBron James. He's too nice of a guy, IMO. Jordan was a jerk, by all accounts, but he would put his foot on your throat and not let up.

grumpypenguin:

Love watching him play for 1 quarter. Last couple of years it was the first quarter, now it's the fourth quarter. The other 3 quarters he plays lackadaisical and I don't really care

Nipsey Mussle:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 09:23:23 am ---Physically, he's in a league of his own.  Between the ears, he's inconsistent.  You never know what you're going to get.  Box of chocolates ???

--- End quote ---
You just don't know what you're talking about unfortunately. Lebron has one of the best minds in the game and sees plays before they happen. Kenny Smith even said recently that Lebron has one of the top bball iq in the history of the game.
You are also probably fooled by Lebron having the Tony Romo syndrome (he's a lot better by comparison, of course) with fans. He makes big play after big play but all many fans remember are the rare miscues.

jry04:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 09:32:25 am ---I think it's a little ambitious to project anyone to have a 20 year NBA career. Especially someone who's had to carry the load like LeBron James has his entire career. I don't see him playing until he's 38 years old. I think he'll want to retire as an All-Star caliber player, so I'll give him another 6 or 7 years.

--- End quote ---
I think a lot of it will have to do with how many championships he has. He may not say it, but I think being the greatest of all time is important to him. Physically he is. However, if he gets to year 16 in his career and he has 4 or 5 championships, I could see him going a few more years to try and match, or pass Jordan. Jordan played 15 seasons, but he also entered the league 3 or 4 years older than LBJ. Kobe has played 17, and is planning on coming back for his 18th next year. But like you said, if he wants to go out as the best player in the league he will have to do it in 6 or 7 years. If he is ok doing like MJ did with the Wizards or Allen with the Heat, then he may play a few more years.

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: Clay (helmuthjr21) C on June 19, 2013, 09:45:50 am ---You just don't know what you're talking about unfortunately. Lebron has one of the best minds in the game and sees plays before they happen. Kenny Smith even said recently that Lebron has one of the top bball iq in the history of the game.
You are also probably fooled by Lebron having the Tony Romo syndrome (he's a lot better by comparison, of course) with fans. He makes big play after big play but all many fans remember are the rare miscues.

--- End quote ---
Read the damn thread.  Am I the only one that mentioned his tendency to disappear or develop butterfingers at crunch time? I didn't mean to imply that he was Forrest Gump.  Sorry you took it that way.  Sometimes he looks like a bull in a china closet out there.  Heck, I even gave him the love in the poll and I picked the Heat in seven.  We'll see...

jry04:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 09:39:19 am ---My personal feelings on LeBron are that he's a good guy and a good example for the NBA. He's never going to get in trouble and embarrass anyone. He seems like a genuinely nice and caring guy for the most part.

As a player, he's an all-time great but I can't stand it when people mention him as possibly being the greatest ever. I just don't think it has that in him. There have just been too many times when he was "on" like he needed to be in the Finals. You never saw that with guys like Jordan or Kobe. Bad games happen but there's a difference between just not having it that day and not being there, and not being there and stepping up as been a problem of his. Still, this guy could end up with 5 or so rings. If that happens, I don't see how he's not in the top 5 all-time. It's just that intangible "killer instinct" that holds him back because there's been too many games, Finals games, where he didn't try to take over when his team needed to.

He's just a polarizing guy because everyone sees how good he really is and how much of a physical freak he is, so naturally, they expect to see him challenge Jordan for the greatest ever and he just really hasn't do that when it matters most. That's my lasting impression of LeBron James. He's too nice of a guy, IMO. Jordan was a jerk, by all accounts, but he would put his foot on your throat and not let up.

--- End quote ---
LeBron also entered the league at a younger age than Jordan, so he wasn't as mature. Jordan won his first championship at 28, LBJ has a chance for his 2nd at 28, and has already played for 3 others. Last year he seemed like he matured a lot. This year he was great in game 7 vs the Pacers, great when he had to be last night, and we will have to see how he plays Thursday. He looked like he had the killer instinct last night when he lead his team back from a 10 pt 4th quarter deficit. If LBJ passes in the 4th he is criticized for not wanting the ball. If he tries to do it all and misses a shot or makes a bad pass he is criticized for that. The guy cannot win. He shows up in the 4th quarter and people say, "but he wasn't there the first 3 quarters." He pulls a Tim Duncan and drops 30 in the first 3, but scores 0 in the 4th and he is called a choker and jokes about how he disappears in the 4th flood social media.

Nipsey Mussle:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 10:05:40 am ---Read the damn thread.  Am I the only one that mentioned his tendency to disappear or develop butterfingers at crunch time? I didn't mean to imply that he was Forrest Gump.  Sorry you took it that way.  Sometimes he looks like a bull in a china closet out there.  Heck, I even gave him the love in the poll and I picked the Heat in seven.  We'll see...

--- End quote ---
Fair enough, I did take it the wrong way

jry04:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 10:05:40 am ---Read the damn thread.  Am I the only one that mentioned his tendency to disappear or develop butterfingers at crunch time? I didn't mean to imply that he was Forrest Gump.  Sorry you took it that way.  Sometimes he looks like a bull in a china closet out there.  Heck, I even gave him the love in the poll and I picked the Heat in seven.  We'll see...

--- End quote ---
He disappeared in crunch time 2 years ago. Not so much lately. Last year he was as clutch as it gets. This year he had some clutch shots vs the Pacers, and had 30+ in game 7 vs them. Last night he was the reason the Heat were even in the game. Yes, he missed a couple threes in the final minutes, but he also drained one with 20 seconds left.


MJ and Kobe have all had just as bad, if not worse games than LBJ in the finals so it isn't like LBJ is the only one who does this.

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:12:00 am ---He disappeared in crunch time 2 years ago. Not so much lately. Last year he was as clutch as it gets. This year he had some clutch shots vs the Pacers, and had 30+ in game 7 vs them. Last night he was the reason the Heat were even in the game. Yes, he missed a couple threes in the final minutes, but he also drained one with 20 seconds left.


MJ and Kobe have all had just as bad, if not worse games than LBJ in the finals so it isn't like LBJ is the only one who does this.

--- End quote ---
Just like all these "greats," he's as good as his supporting cast.  Look who disappeared last night in the 4th and OT - Tim Duncan of all people.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:08:01 am ---LeBron also entered the league at a younger age than Jordan, so he wasn't as mature. Jordan won his first championship at 28, LBJ has a chance for his 2nd at 28, and has already played for 3 others. Last year he seemed like he matured a lot. This year he was great in game 7 vs the Pacers, great when he had to be last night, and we will have to see how he plays Thursday. He looked like he had the killer instinct last night when he lead his team back from a 10 pt 4th quarter deficit. If LBJ passes in the 4th he is criticized for not wanting the ball. If he tries to do it all and misses a shot or makes a bad pass he is criticized for that. The guy cannot win. He shows up in the 4th quarter and people say, "but he wasn't there the first 3 quarters." He pulls a Tim Duncan and drops 30 in the first 3, but scores 0 in the 4th and he is called a choker and jokes about how he disappears in the 4th flood social media.

--- End quote ---

LeBron should never be criticized for being assertive. Anyone who criticizes him for trying to take over a Finals game really is just a hater. A guy that could should not be passing up open 12 footers like I've seen him do at critical times in the Finals. He doesn't have to take EVERY shot, but he should be taking every reasonable shot. That's what players of his ilk are supposed to do in go-time.

He had the killer instinct last night, but where was it in Game 3 when he only scored 15 points and didn't get the FT line once? He was great in last year's Finals, and I had thought he turned the corner, but he's shown glimpses of the old LeBron that doesn't rise to the occasion when needed. Luckily for him, the Spurs went and bailed him out last night or he'd be in for a looong year.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:12:00 am ---He disappeared in crunch time 2 years ago. Not so much lately. Last year he was as clutch as it gets. This year he had some clutch shots vs the Pacers, and had 30+ in game 7 vs them. Last night he was the reason the Heat were even in the game. Yes, he missed a couple threes in the final minutes, but he also drained one with 20 seconds left.


MJ and Kobe have all had just as bad, if not worse games than LBJ in the finals so it isn't like LBJ is the only one who does this.

--- End quote ---

We've already been down that road with Jordan's worst Finals games against LeBron's worst Finals game in the Playoffs thread. I don't think Jordan ever had a Finals game under 20 points.

EDIT: Mixed up two different threads.

jry04:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 10:18:09 am ---Just like all these "greats," he's as good as his supporting cast.  Look who disappeared last night in the 4th and OT - Tim Duncan of all people.

--- End quote ---
Exactly. Duncan was 0-4 in the 4th quarter with 0 points. I believe he had 24 or 25 at halftime, and ended up with 30. Nobody mentions that though.

MJ and Kobe had games where they scored 15 or less points, and missed 15+ shots. Tim Duncan is a 4 time champion, and one of the best power forwards of all time. He was unstoppable in the first half, and never got going in the 2nd half. Parker went 6/23 and had a game earlier this series where he only score 13 points on 5/14 shooting. Nobody has really criticized them for that. Instead they talk about how great Green or Neal has been. If LBJ has games like that they blast him, instead of talking about the big performance out of Miller or Chalmers.

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:24:12 am ---Exactly. Duncan was 0-4 in the 4th quarter with 0 points. I believe he had 24 or 25 at halftime, and ended up with 30. Nobody mentions that though.

MJ and Kobe had games where they scored 15 or less points, and missed 15+ shots. Tim Duncan is a 4 time champion, and one of the best power forwards of all time. He was unstoppable in the first half, and never got going in the 2nd half. Parker went 6/23 and had a game earlier this series where he only score 13 points on 5/14 shooting. Nobody has really criticized them for that. Instead they talk about how great Green or Neal has been. If LBJ has games like that they blast him, instead of talking about the big performance out of Miller or Chalmers.

--- End quote ---
Bosh had two key blocks and got the assist to Ray or LBJ would already be tarred and feathered and run out of town.

HF#1:

I respect his game while believing that he isn't now nor will he ever be greater than Michael Jordan.

ErieHog:

I think there are two few options in the poll, because you are sort of mixing two questions.

What do people feel about LeBron, and how does a person think that he plays.

I personally think he's the best player in the league right now (and has been for a long while) -- and a thoroughly detestable figure.    I don't fit anywhere in the 3 options.

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: ErieHog on June 19, 2013, 10:30:18 am ---I think there are two few options in the poll, because you are sort of mixing two questions.

What do people feel about LeBron, and how does a person think that he plays.

I personally think he's the best player in the league right now (and has been for a long while) -- and a thoroughly detestable figure.    I don't fit anywhere in the 3 options.

--- End quote ---
Isn't Lake Erie pretty close to Cleveland?

ErieHog:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 10:32:23 am ---Isn't Lake Erie pretty close to Cleveland?

--- End quote ---

Yeah, but what relevance does that have to anything?   My user name has nothing to do with Lake Erie, Erie, Indiana, or anything like that...

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: ErieHog on June 19, 2013, 10:35:41 am ---Yeah, but what relevance does that have to anything?   My user name has nothing to do with Lake Erie, Erie, Indiana, or anything like that...

--- End quote ---
Oh, well nevermind...  (Why the hate, Erie?)

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:24:12 am ---Exactly. Duncan was 0-4 in the 4th quarter with 0 points. I believe he had 24 or 25 at halftime, and ended up with 30. Nobody mentions that though.

MJ and Kobe had games where they scored 15 or less points, and missed 15+ shots. Tim Duncan is a 4 time champion, and one of the best power forwards of all time. He was unstoppable in the first half, and never got going in the 2nd half. Parker went 6/23 and had a game earlier this series where he only score 13 points on 5/14 shooting. Nobody has really criticized them for that. Instead they talk about how great Green or Neal has been. If LBJ has games like that they blast him, instead of talking about the big performance out of Miller or Chalmers.

--- End quote ---

Michael Jordan? In the Finals?

No.

MJ's 3 worst scoring Finals games: 22, 22, 24

LeBron's had 3 games lower than that IN THIS FINALS SERIES.....



jry04:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 10:23:39 am ---We've already been down that road with Jordan's worst Finals games against LeBron's worst Finals game.....in this thread. I don't think Jordan ever had a Finals game under 20 points.

--- End quote ---
He didn't, but he also took about 20 shots per game.

He had games where he went:

13/29 with 3 reb 2 ast.
9/26 with 4 reb and 4 ast.
11/27 with 4 reb and 4 ast.
9/22 with 3 reb and 6 ast.
6/19 with 3 reb and 2 ast. (21 pt loss)
19/43 with 6 reb and 9 assists in triple OT
11/26 with 5 reb and 6 asst

All of those games were losses. Yes, some of them he scored quite a bit, but as you can see he was shooting 20+ times in all of them, and missing a lot. He also didn't have a single double double in any of them.

I am not saying LBJ has performed better in finals, because he clearly hasn't. Jordan has 6 rings so there is no dispute at this point. I am just saying so many people act like Kobe and LBJ would never have a bad game like LBJ does, and they all had poor shooting nights, and none of them resulted in double doubles or triple doubles like LBJ's did. Kobe has had a few games where he had less than 15 points in a finals game, and he has 5 rings.

jry04:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 10:40:42 am ---Michael Jordan? In the Finals?

No.

MJ's 3 worst scoring Finals games: 22, 22, 24

LeBron's had 3 games lower than that IN THIS FINALS SERIES.....



--- End quote ---
Yeah, sorry it was just Kobe. Jordan always scored 20+, but took a ton of shots, too.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:46:40 am ---Yeah, sorry it was just Kobe. Jordan always scored 20+, but took a ton of shots, too.

--- End quote ---

If there's one guy I want taking a ton of shots.....

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:45:39 am ---He didn't, but he also took about 20 shots per game.

He had games where he went:

13/29 with 3 reb 2 ast.
9/26 with 4 reb and 4 ast.
11/27 with 4 reb and 4 ast.
9/22 with 3 reb and 6 ast.
6/19 with 3 reb and 2 ast. (21 pt loss)
19/43 with 6 reb and 9 assists in triple OT
11/26 with 5 reb and 6 asst

All of those games were losses. Yes, some of them he scored quite a bit, but as you can see he was shooting 20+ times in all of them, and missing a lot. He also didn't have a single double double in any of them.

I am not saying LBJ has performed better in finals, because he clearly hasn't. Jordan has 6 rings so there is no dispute at this point. I am just saying so many people act like Kobe and LBJ would never have a bad game like LBJ does, and they all had poor shooting nights, and none of them resulted in double doubles or triple doubles like LBJ's did. Kobe has had a few games where he had less than 15 points in a finals game, and he has 5 rings.

--- End quote ---

People criticize LeBron more for disappearing and being passive than they do for poor shooting.

Kobe and MJ were never passive because you'd have to win over their dead body. LeBron, at times in various Finals series, has looked like he didn't want to be there. That's the main criticism, IMO. Last year, he just took over, and it was great because people had been waiting for that. In this Finals, he's been a mix of last year's LeBron and the LeBron from 2011.

jry04:

I agree with that, but I think it had more to do with maturity in the past. Last year, and for the most part this year he hasn't been as passive.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 11:02:11 am ---I agree with that, but I think it had more to do with maturity in the past. Last year, and for the most part this year he hasn't been as passive.

--- End quote ---

I have mixed feelings on that. I don't think he really had an excuse in 2011. He had already been to the Finals and played in many playoff series. We can say he was younger than Jordan but he also came into the NBA before Jordan and there should be something to be said for having 3 more years of NBA experience. LeBron was a player that absolutely did not need college basketball because it actually would have held him back. For as young as LeBron was in some of these big series in the past, a good deal of that has to be offset by him playing at the highest level since he was 18 years old. He was All-NBA 2nd team at 20 years old.

ErieHog:


--- Quote from: PonderinHog on June 19, 2013, 10:39:20 am ---Oh, well nevermind...  (Why the hate, Erie?)

--- End quote ---

I've disliked LeBron since the beginning-- mind, I couldn't muster more than vague discomfort when SI was previewing him in 2002 as The Chosen One.    Because I love basketball, though, I kept an eye on his play  (though wouldn't learn more of the details of the story until  More Than A Game was released in 2008);   I had concerns about his honesty when his mother suddenly had an H2 that potentially compromised his eligibility.   I later learned about his attempt to petition to enter the NBA draft as a junior in HS.   

I watched as he went to Cleveland, and actually did a decent job of being a bit less low-key than most elite talents--  to me, it is when I liked him best-- he helped turn around the Cavaliers with team oriented basketball.   I watched his blossoming into a superstar, and the change in him, as  in his early to mid 20s he began clamoring for more 'help' from his franchise-- but then consistently alienated himself (or was alienated) by every non-substandard teammate he ever had as a Cav.

I watched as he bungled his departure, ruined his relationship with his adopted home, then wrote a check that even the greatest basketball players of all time would need a good deal of luck to cash.  It rubbed me the wrong way.      Throw in the times where he doesn't seem to care, and the way that he often gets a pass afforded to no other, and yeah-- I really dislike LeBron.  I respect the heck out of his talent, I expect him to dominate the league for the better part of another decade, and I expect him to be as inescapable as air.....but no,  I'm never going to like him.

jry04:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 10:50:16 am ---If there's one guy I want taking a ton of shots.....

--- End quote ---
I wasn't saying he shouldn't take a lot of shots. I was making a point that while he did score 20+ points in all of those games, he was also taking a ton of shots. It isn't hard to have 20+ points on a poor shooting night if you are shooting 25+ times.

popcornhog:


--- Quote from: HogFan#1 on June 19, 2013, 10:28:56 am ---I respect his game while believing that he isn't now nor will he ever be greater than Michael Jordan.

--- End quote ---

I agree that he's behind Mike -- but it's silly to say that he couldn't pass MJ, he's only 27.

If he wins 6 more titles and averages close to a triple double over the next couple if years, the argument could be made.

I don't expect him to necessarily do that -- just saying he could pass up MJ, hypothetically.

Dr. Starcs:

Tim Duncan is 37. Lebron is on his prime.

Also, Tim already has 4 rings.

On top of that, he plays a position where he doesn't always touch the ball.

Cure:


--- Quote from: jry04 on June 19, 2013, 10:08:01 am --- If LBJ passes in the 4th he is criticized for not wanting the ball. If he tries to do it all and misses a shot or makes a bad pass he is criticized for that. The guy cannot win. He shows up in the 4th quarter and people say, "but he wasn't there the first 3 quarters." He pulls a Tim Duncan and drops 30 in the first 3, but scores 0 in the 4th and he is called a choker and jokes about how he disappears in the 4th flood social media.

--- End quote ---
+1

Basically how I feel about him. Following what Jordan did is damn near impossible, but LBJ should be viewed in his own class at any rate.


He can turn it on and carry he team if need be, but if he feels he "has" to get others involved, it's where he suffers. One of the GOATs already though and he's just hitting his prime.

I would like to see him bang on someone and show a sense of anger, as he did last night when his headband got knocked off, but then I realize how spoiled I am watching his game anyway.

A quiet triple double and I'm still demanding more from the guy, makes you put things in perspective.

PonderinHog:


--- Quote from: Cure on June 19, 2013, 12:32:06 pm ---+1

Basically how I feel about him. He can turn it on and carry he team if need be, but if he feels he "has" to get others involved, it's where he suffers. One of the GOATs already though and he's just hitting his prime.

I would like to see him bang on someone and show a sense of anger, as he did last night when his headband got knocked off, but then I realize how spoiled I am watching his game anyway.

A quiet triple double and I'm still demanding more from the guy, makes you put things in perspective.

--- End quote ---
He's only 19 or so behind Magic at this point.

jry04:


--- Quote from: Cure on June 19, 2013, 12:32:06 pm ---A quiet triple double and I'm still demanding more from the guy, makes you put things in perspective.

--- End quote ---
Exactly what I have been telling people. He was being killed for his performance in game 1 when he had 18 points, 18 rebounds, and 10 assists. Magic is probably the only other player who could have a triple double and people still not be satisfied with his performance.

Cure:


--- Quote from: ErieHog on June 19, 2013, 11:11:49 am ---
I watched as he bungled his departure, ruined his relationship with his adopted home, then wrote a check that even the greatest basketball players of all time would need a good deal of luck to cash.

--- End quote ---
A lot of people who have and have not watched More Than A Game, do not know that a large portion of his high school team, he takes care of them. Whether it's via his business management team or just showing appreciation for their support, they are set for life. His management team, besides "The Decision" have made very good moves. I know his right hand man  Maverick and he's a good guy, still courtside at a majority of Cleveland Cavalier games.

Off the court, LeBron is a nice guy, and far too often that shows on the court. In retrospect, most will gain an appreciation for someone being more of a professional that superstar [CENSORED].

Dr. Starcs:

Yeah. Such a humble 'king' too.

passinghog:

As a Laker fan, I've evolved on my thoughts on Lebron, primarily since he's been with the Heat. I don't understand why so many Lakers fans have think they have to hate Lebron...I'm guessing because so many compare him to Kobe.

As a basketball fan, if you're knowledgeable enough, you can't really compare LBJ to Kobe, to MJ or even Magic. He doesn't play the same position as them, his game differs from all 3. With LBJ, I appreciate him for what he is: arguably the greatest physical specimen to ever play in the NBA. His biggest enigma is probably brought on due to his biggest strength---he can do everything on the court, but doesn't have one dominant skill aside from court vision. But the 4th qtr also put that enigma on display: he dominated to game because he was doing everything and put the team on his back.

Appreciate LBJ for what he is and not who you think he should be.

Dogtown Donkey:


--- Quote from: Showtimehog on June 19, 2013, 02:19:15 pm ---As a Laker fan, I've evolved on my thoughts on Lebron, primarily since he's been with the Heat. I don't understand why so many Lakers fans have think they have to hate Lebron...I'm guessing because so many compare him to Kobe.

As a basketball fan, if you're knowledgeable enough, you can't really compare LBJ to Kobe, to MJ or even Magic. He doesn't play the same position as them, his game differs from all 3. With LBJ, I appreciate him for what he is: arguably the greatest physical specimen to ever play in the NBA. His biggest enigma is probably brought on due to his biggest strength---he can do everything on the court, but doesn't have one dominant skill aside from court vision. But the 4th qtr also put that enigma on display: he dominated to game because he was doing everything and put the team on his back.

Appreciate LBJ for what he is and not who you think he should be.

--- End quote ---

So how do you determine an all-time great list without comparing people at different positions?

This is what I don't understand when people say you can't compare LeBron to whoever because they don't play the same position.

Cure:


--- Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on June 19, 2013, 02:29:48 pm ---So how do you determine an all-time great list without comparing people at different positions?

This is what I don't understand when people say you can't compare LeBron to whoever because they don't play the same position.

--- End quote ---
Depends on which position do you feel LeBron's true position is?

Hawgndaaz:

what is funny is the argument people use against him about his ego or cockiness.

Jordan was and still is one of the biggest trash talkers the game has ever seen. Heck he used his hall of fame speech to brag on himself and talk crap to his former opponents.

See also: Ali, Tiger, Kobe, etc.



The greatest always have egos and narcissistic personalities. It is part of what drives them to be the best.

dsims2k3:


--- Quote from: Hawgndaaz on June 19, 2013, 09:21:09 am ---there's a pretty big racial barrier between those that love the heat and those that hate the heat. I have many friends on both sides of the love/hate spectrum, and the divide is very racially biased.


in short, it seems more of my minority friends were blowing up twitter last night about king james.

more of my Caucasian friends were doing the same anti-LeBron.



not real sure why, but it's something I have observed quite a bit of this year.

--- End quote ---


I'm not Caucasian and I no LBJ fan by any means, although I respect his game. Team Lakers

dsims2k3:


--- Quote from: popcornhog on June 19, 2013, 09:25:13 am ---I've not noticed that divide. I have seen a divide between Kobe/Laker fans and Kobe/Laker haters. The former tend to hate LeBron, the former love him.

Overall I am seeing way more LeBron hate and I really don't get it. I'm neutral, but the guy is a great player and a good kid -- what's to hate?

--- End quote ---
I agree.

hogsanity:

as with any player at the top of their sport, in talent, you have to respect that.  Heck, I even respect soccer players that are at the elite level.  However, the whole " iam taking my game to south beach" special on ESPn really soured a lot of people on him. Just sign your contract and go play. 

I am not a big NBA fan, usually can count the minutes of it I watch on one hand until the finals.  Way too much flopping on one extreme, and too much physical play on the other.  Alot of what he does is simply bulling his way to the basket, but that is how the game is played, and he is at the top of that game.

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