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Author Topic: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart  (Read 2938 times)

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hawg1221

DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« on: March 20, 2019, 10:03:23 pm »

DVH gets it. He wasn't concerned about getting another victory. He knows the future is with getting his young guns experience against good competition. This will pay dividends down the road. He's a really good coach.

Kevin

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 10:21:44 pm »

College baseball is just different than most sports.

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Razor_back

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 09:49:26 am »

I came away thinking, if all those freshman struggled that much, that just shows you how good Noland is.

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 10:49:28 am »

DVH gets it. He wasn't concerned about getting another victory. He knows the future is with getting his young guns experience against good competition. This will pay dividends down the road. He's a really good coach.

Yes, but it wouldn't hurt as much if the opponent were Fullerton or Arizona St, or Miami.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 11:00:12 am »

DVH gets it. He wasn't concerned about getting another victory. He knows the future is with getting his young guns experience against good competition. This will pay dividends down the road. He's a really good coach.
None better that I know of. However. I think he would tell you last night was probably a bit of overkill as far as pitching everyone. I saw a couple, maybe even three that were a waste of time because they won't be here next year. The kid named Liam Henry, well I saw some potential in that guy. You could tell he was as nervous as an 8 year old lining up the crosss hairs on his first white-tail. And it wasn't his fault on the overthrow from catcher to pitcher which allowed a run to score. All Henry has to do is get some midweek experience against UAPB (start the kid) and he'll learn to slow everything down. He was getting to his wind-up or stretch as soon as the ball got back to him. Liam should watch some film on Dallas Keuchel and his mound presence and Liam's career will take off. A few of the others, well, sadly may need to pitch for UAPB instead of against them.
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WilsonHog

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 11:06:56 am »

None better that I know of. However. I think he would tell you last night was probably a bit of overkill as far as pitching everyone. I saw a couple, maybe even three that were a waste of time because they won't be here next year. The kid named Liam Henry, well I saw some potential in that guy. You could tell he was as nervous as an 8 year old sighting up his first white-tail. And it wasn't his fault on the overthrow from catcher to pitcher which allowed a run to score. All Henry has to do is get some midweek experience against UAPB (start the kid) and he'll learn to slow everything down. He was getting to his wind-up or stretch as soon as the ball got back to him. Liam should watch some film on Dallas Keuchel and his mound presence and Liam's career will take off. A few of the others, well, sadly may need to pitch for UAPB instead of against them.

I think every one of our young pitchers who threw last night has good stuff; if they didn't, they wouldn't have a spot on this staff. Of course, part of having good stuff is being able to harness it. I expect that will play itself out over the course of this season and perhaps summer ball. Look no further than Kostyshock; he went from a kid who pitched 14 innings last season with an ERA of almost 6.50 to our set-up guy for Cronin this year.

onebadrubi

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 11:07:13 am »

I came away thinking, if all those freshman struggled that much, that just shows you how good Noland is.

I don't necessarily take that away from the game last night.  Last night had a very difficult strike zone, it was not consistent for either team and had bad calls going both ways.  My homerism feels like Hogs got the worse end of that, but none the less it was pretty bad for both.  Pitches over the chalk on both teams were being called strikes and pitches on the black were being called balls.  His hi and low were extremely inconsistent as well.

I think last night was infectious for whoever the next guy came in.  No telling what was said on the mound when the new guy gets the ball, but he knows dangit, all I need to do is throw strikes and you see what happened one after another.  No way are all those freshman that bad, no way! 
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bulldog04

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 11:08:56 am »

I liked what I saw out of Henry. He’s going to be pretty good in the future and may help us on the weekends as a lefty out of the pen
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 11:19:21 am »

I think every one of our young pitchers who threw last night has good stuff; if they didn't, they wouldn't have a spot on this staff. Of course, part of having good stuff is being able to harness it. I expect that will play itself out over the course of this season and perhaps summer ball. Look no further than Kostyshock; he went from a kid who pitched 14 innings last season with an ERA of almost 6.50 to our set-up guy for Cronin this year.
Maybe a couple will stick but some of our guys were plunking Longhorns on the head and the back, throwing the ball behind that batters on more than one occasion. I understand how nervous one can get in a given situation. Some will work through it, some won't. I just believe the Henry kid won't be a starter, but similar to Kopps and the way he pitches now. And the way Kopps is twirling now, that's a huge compliment. Oh and I do get your point on Kostyshock, he's solid now. I never dreamed he had that type of stuff. The electric fastball when Kosty wants to dial up the heat is the most pleasant surprise on the season.
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woodrow hog call

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 02:25:13 pm »

None better that I know of. However. I think he would tell you last night was probably a bit of overkill as far as pitching everyone. I saw a couple, maybe even three that were a waste of time because they won't be here next year. The kid named Liam Henry, well I saw some potential in that guy. You could tell he was as nervous as an 8 year old lining up the crosss hairs on his first white-tail. And it wasn't his fault on the overthrow from catcher to pitcher which allowed a run to score. All Henry has to do is get some midweek experience against UAPB (start the kid) and he'll learn to slow everything down. He was getting to his wind-up or stretch as soon as the ball got back to him. Liam should watch some film on Dallas Keuchel and his mound presence and Liam's career will take off. A few of the others, well, sadly may need to pitch for UAPB instead of against them.


Read this quote of yours below out loud, and then maybe rethink the bolded part above, really unnecessary and has no purpose.


"I never dreamed he had that type of stuff. The electric fastball when Kosty wants to dial up the heat is the most pleasant surprise on the season."

EconHawg

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 05:15:06 pm »

I think his point was Kostyshock has come a long way to be a very good pitcher this year, so maybe don't write off the guys from last night as needing to transfer. 
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rinds

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 06:32:30 pm »

 Yelling at the TV just throw your fastball. I think the kids tried to mix to much stuff that comes with age and experience. I was Impressed with the velocity. It was nice they plunked a few of the Texas batters :), just kidding maybe :)
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tennesseehogwild

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 08:45:50 pm »

Yelling at the TV just throw your fastball. I think the kids tried to mix to much stuff that comes with age and experience. I was Impressed with the velocity. It was nice they plunked a few of the Texas batters :), just kidding maybe :)

 Last night I went to bed upset how tough the game was on the mostly inexperienced pitchers. On my ride in to work this morning I realized that down the road it will benefit them. Still stings to lose to the darned Horns but I will take a road split with them and (hopefully) a series win vs Bama. GHG!
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woodrow hog call

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 09:28:59 pm »

I think his point was Kostyshock has come a long way to be a very good pitcher this year, so maybe don't write off the guys from last night as needing to transfer. 

Yes that’s exactly my point, he had no idea Kostyshock would become what he has yet he knows who won’t be here next year after throwing one inning. Ironic I thought.
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Freebrd

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2019, 01:19:47 pm »

I would have preferred burning a pitcher and POSSIBLY losing one to alabama than losing to texas ::hornsdown::.  I remember the SWC!
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oldhawg

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2019, 01:24:52 pm »

I have come a long ways.  Under the circumstances, and understanding DVH's priorities, the Texas loss does not bother me as it might have a few years ago.

onebadrubi

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2019, 02:35:23 pm »

Burton has a very lively hard throwing arm with run on that fastball.  You can't really teach that.  We absolutely do not want him leaving this team, we want him to get the DVH treatment and coached up to be a player next year and early draft pick though the following. 

My mind is kind of mushy right now after a long week, anyone want to help me out with this next thought.  We have 2-3 freshman that can really contribute this year off the mound, that is ~30% of the freshman arms brought in right?  I'd say 2 of those, or ~23%, have and will continue to contribute on weekends if not more.  We have a stable right now being born in that pitching room.  There is some real talent down there.  have we seen these types of numbers contribute this early in their careers?  The obvious Bax's and such but how about the rest of their freshman class? 

Dave told us what that game was going to be like, I was scared late in the game he was actually going to put in that position player he mentioned. 
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A_R_K_A_N_S_A_S

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2019, 03:32:28 pm »

Burton should never walk out on the mound again.
I have never met swineology , but I know him well enough and the people he hangs with on a regular basis that this is 100% sarcasm and they know it too.

swineology should have made it clear it was sarcasm for everyone to understand, instead of posting that it was sarcasm  5 or 6 posts down.

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ucahogfan

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2019, 09:48:31 pm »

In other news, Texas blew a 2 run lead in the 9th tonight to TCU and lost 3-2 because Quintanilla was used a lot on Wednesday.

Wonder if Pierce regrets using him on Wednesday in a midweek game because it cost him a weekend game.

TebowHater

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2019, 09:51:14 pm »

In other news, Texas blew a 2 run lead in the 9th tonight to TCU and lost 3-2 because Quintanilla was used a lot on Wednesday.

Wonder if Pierce regrets using him on Wednesday in a midweek game because it cost him a weekend game.

I wouldn't--splitting with us is so valuable compared to getting swept. They don't have a ton of top 25 wins left on the board to grab.
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colbs

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2019, 10:09:57 pm »

I wouldn't--splitting with us is so valuable compared to getting swept. They don't have a ton of top 25 wins left on the board to grab.
Had the chance at one tonight on the road.  If this keeps them from winning the series then it for sure wasn’t worth it.
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The Kid

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2019, 10:59:21 am »

Losing a winnable game against a ranked opponent on the road with the parade of freshman pitchers was gut wrenching to watch.

One more inning by Denton and an inning by Kopps and/or Kostyshock could've safeguarded a sweep of Texass.

jbell96

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2019, 11:11:52 am »

I wouldn't--splitting with us is so valuable compared to getting swept. They don't have a ton of top 25 wins left on the board to grab.

Winning a conference road series against a ranked opponent is more valuable than winning a home game against at top 10 team.
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woodrow hog call

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2019, 03:29:11 pm »

Having one or two more Freshmen hurlers ready to go against a conference opponent for an inning or three, is going to be very valuable down the road, got to get them in during pressure situations so they learn how to respond.

drizzle

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2019, 04:16:08 pm »

Having one or two more Freshmen hurlers ready to go against a conference opponent for an inning or three, is going to be very valuable down the road, got to get them in during pressure situations so they learn how to respond.

Same thing if we end up trying to win a regional from the losers' bracket—it'd sure be nice to have some freshman with experience in at least somewhat marquee games so that they can settle their nerves.

If the argument people were making about Texas was "what if we ruined these pitchers forever by breaking their confidence" that would be one thing (and also I would be skeptical that anyone we have on our team would have that happen).  But the idea that a midweek sweep against UT is more important than using the second game (after we'd already won the first) to get our young guys experience that will pay off when things really matter? Even granting hatred of Texas and that UT is ranked, I just can't get to that place.  Play the season as if the goals are (a) getting to and (b) winning in Omaha.  Clearly DVH did that, and I agree completely.

jbell96

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2019, 04:20:12 pm »

Losing a winnable game against a ranked opponent on the road with the parade of freshman pitchers was gut wrenching to watch.

One more inning by Denton and an inning by Kopps and/or Kostyshock could've safeguarded a sweep of Texass.

Texas burned their closer in that game and it cost them game 1 of their series against TCU, as they had to use someone else to close it out, and they ended up losing the series. We saved all of our good pitchers and got an easy 2-1 series win on the road.
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The Kid

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2019, 04:26:52 pm »

Texas burned their closer in that game and it cost them game 1 of their series against TCU, as they had to use someone else to close it out, and they ended up losing the series. We saved all of our good pitchers and got an easy 2-1 series win on the road.


How does pitching Denton one more inning plus an inning by Kopps and/or Kostyshock = Cronin?
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jabberjawls

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2019, 05:49:49 pm »

How does pitching Denton one more inning plus an inning by Kopps and/or Kostyshock = Cronin?
Seriously?  We play Missouri State tomorrow night and Wednesday and then Ole Miss this weekend.   But since everyone wants to keep this subject going for whatever reason, i will try to explain it.   

DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He doesn't know when he pulled out Denton that all of his freshman pitchers where going to pitch poorly. How could he have know this?  The only way you find out is it to monitor them in practice and then let them pitch in real game.  Better the Texas game than a conference game.  DVH also didn't know that Campbell would shut down Alabama on Friday night and that our bats would be blazing against a very very good friday night starter for Alabama thus allowing us to save a lot of our bull pen arms.   Had DVH known in the 3rd inning of the Texas game how the next 5 days would turn out, then i am sure that he would have pitched differently.  But to my knowledge, DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He is a great coach.  Arkansas is very lucky to have him, let's give his decision-making a modicum of deference and move on to the next games.  Please.

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2019, 06:25:47 pm »

Seriously?  We play Missouri State tomorrow night and Wednesday and then Ole Miss this weekend.   But since everyone wants to keep this subject going for whatever reason, i will try to explain it.   

DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He doesn't know when he pulled out Denton that all of his freshman pitchers where going to pitch poorly. How could he have know this?  The only way you find out is it to monitor them in practice and then let them pitch in real game.  Better the Texas game than a conference game.  DVH also didn't know that Campbell would shut down Alabama on Friday night and that our bats would be blazing against a very very good friday night starter for Alabama thus allowing us to save a lot of our bull pen arms.   Had DVH known in the 3rd inning of the Texas game how the next 5 days would turn out, then i am sure that he would have pitched differently.  But to my knowledge, DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He is a great coach.  Arkansas is very lucky to have him, let's give his decision-making a modicum of deference and move on to the next games.  Please.

I don't think anyone is advocating that Kopps should have been the first one in after Denton on Wednesday. Rather - even after throwing multiple freshmen and watching them struggle - we had a 5-4 lead with 2 outs in the 6th inning. In that moment, perhaps even for just one batter, we could have brought in an experienced arm, put out the fire, and prevented their final 3 runs from scoring. We had a chance to win a game against a top RPI team without any risk of hurting ourselves for the weekend. If we bring in an experience arm and the runs still score, fine, concede the game back to more freshmen. But the bottom line is we had a chance to win at no risk to the weekend and didn't. You don't know what the future may hold, so take the wins when you can, especially when they're against a valuable opponent like UT. This doesn't even get into the fact that people who pitched on Wednesday also were able to pitch Friday against Bama, that we didn't need most of our big gun relievers until Sunday anyway, etc. 

On your second point, to think anyone here doesn't think DVH is a fantastic coach is absurd. That doesn't mean we have to agree with every decision he makes, and doesn't mean providing arguments to alternative strategies is forbidden.

jabberjawls

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2019, 06:41:23 pm »

I don't think anyone is advocating that Kopps should have been the first one in after Denton on Wednesday. Rather - even after throwing multiple freshmen and watching them struggle - we had a 5-4 lead with 2 outs in the 6th inning. In that moment, perhaps even for just one batter, we could have brought in an experience arm, put out the fire, and prevented their final 3 runs from scoring. We had a chance to win a game against a top RPI team without any risk of hurting ourselves for the weekend. If we bring in an experience arm and the runs still score, fine, concede the game back to more freshmen. But the bottom line is we had a chance to win at no risk to the weekend and didn't. You don't know what the future may hold, so take the wins when you can, especially when they're valuable.

On your second point, to think anyone here doesn't think DVH is a fantastic coach is absurd. That doesn't mean we have to agree with every decision he makes, and doesn't mean providing arguments to alternative strategies is forbidden.
Sure this is easy to say in hindsight.  Texas probably lost its Friday night game because it didn't save its bullpen arms.  What if Texas scores a run against "an experienced arm" and ties it? Do we continue to use experienced arms? Which ones?  What if the game is tied after 9 and we go extra innings, do we continue to use "experienced arms"?  What if Campbell only gives us 3 innings on Friday and we have to go to the pen early?  What do we do there if we have used them against Texas? And then how would that affect Saturday and Sunday's games?  It's easy to second guess, but i have watched a lot of Arkansas baseball over the last few years and most of the time DVH make the right decisions.  Not always, but definitely most of the time.  It was not too long ago that a lot of people on here questioned why Goodheart was still playing.  DVH stuck with him because he knows the situation much better than 100% of the posters on EI.

Now i am not saying you can't disagree with a DVH decision.  That is fair, but you have posted on this message board no less than 10 times you disagreeance with the Wednesday night pitching decision made by DVH.  We all understand how you feel.  We got it.  I'm just saying, let's move on.
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southeasthog

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2019, 07:04:57 pm »

Seriously?  We play Missouri State tomorrow night and Wednesday

We only play Tuesday. Just one game.
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jabberjawls

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2019, 07:10:58 pm »

We only play Tuesday. Just one game.
Yes, that's right.  Thanks!
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The Kid

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2019, 07:50:00 pm »

Seriously?  We play Missouri State tomorrow night and Wednesday and then Ole Miss this weekend.   But since everyone wants to keep this subject going for whatever reason, i will try to explain it.   

DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He doesn't know when he pulled out Denton that all of his freshman pitchers where going to pitch poorly. How could he have know this?  The only way you find out is it to monitor them in practice and then let them pitch in real game.  Better the Texas game than a conference game.  DVH also didn't know that Campbell would shut down Alabama on Friday night and that our bats would be blazing against a very very good friday night starter for Alabama thus allowing us to save a lot of our bull pen arms.   Had DVH known in the 3rd inning of the Texas game how the next 5 days would turn out, then i am sure that he would have pitched differently.  But to my knowledge, DVH doesn't have a crystal ball.  He is a great coach.  Arkansas is very lucky to have him, let's give his decision-making a modicum of deference and move on to the next games.  Please.

I'm in agreement with your points in bold.

My friends & I didn't have a crystal ball either. But we watched in real-time a winnable game deteriorate into a loss against a ranked team on the road just like everyone else including the players and coaches.

The point is just ONE INNING each by one, maybe two more seasoned pitchers (Kopps and/or Kostyshock) could've turned things around AND not had a detrimental effect on the bullpen heading to Bama, regardless of how things really played out in Tuscaloosa.

If that scenario fails, Arkansas was destined to lose that game I suppose.

We'll never know.

Just like we'll never know if their time on the mound March 20 makes those freshmen better pitchers or gives DVH greater insight into their abilities. Some of them show promise to add innings to the bullpen.

This year's team is fun to watch. I even enjoy watching the ups and downs of our young pitching staff, but I didn't think Wednesday night in Austin was a throw-away exhibition game.

Onward to more Razorback victories this week.
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rinds

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2019, 07:58:24 pm »

Sure this is easy to say in hindsight.  Texas probably lost its Friday night game because it didn't save its bullpen arms.  What if Texas scores a run against "an experienced arm" and ties it? Do we continue to use experienced arms? Which ones?  What if the game is tied after 9 and we go extra innings, do we continue to use "experienced arms"?  What if Campbell only gives us 3 innings on Friday and we have to go to the pen early?  What do we do there if we have used them against Texas? And then how would that affect Saturday and Sunday's games?  It's easy to second guess, but i have watched a lot of Arkansas baseball over the last few years and most of the time DVH make the right decisions.  Not always, but definitely most of the time.  It was not too long ago that a lot of people on here questioned why Goodheart was still playing.  DVH stuck with him because he knows the situation much better than 100% of the posters on EI.

Now i am not saying you can't disagree with a DVH decision.  That is fair, but you have posted on this message board no less than 10 times you disagreeance with the Wednesday night pitching decision made by DVH.  We all understand how you feel.  We got it.  I'm just saying, let's move on.


If we are going to play what if's let's play what if GoodHeart gets a good hit in the ninth? tie game! Let's say Texas couldn't score and we go into the 10th? how much are you willing to put on the line? what would you do if your Texas? use another weekend pitcher? No you have a plan and stick to it then review it after the game! that's what all good manager do, you don't wing it! 
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mhsbc59

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2019, 08:07:01 pm »

It's amazing how much real estate Texas still has in the head of our fans.  Texas means nothing, nada, zelich.  They have no baring what soever in Arkansas drive to win an SEC championship.  That is the goal gentleman.  Win that and you will be a national seed and be set up to make a run at Omaha.
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rinds

Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2019, 08:22:15 pm »

It's amazing how much real estate Texas still has in the head of our fans.  Texas means nothing, nada, zelich.  They have no baring what soever in Arkansas drive to win an SEC championship.  That is the goal gentleman.  Win that and you will be a national seed and be set up to make a run at Omaha.

I get what your saying but alot of us grew up putting the down horn sign when we where old enough to walk. You can't just drop that out of your mind. Hell I remember bonfires and hate Texas week! The whole state rallied behind it. It was our identity for a very long time, still seems like yesterday. I agree winning the SEC is more important but beating Texas for us old timers still hold a special place.

mhsbc59

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Re: DVH strategy for freshman pitching smart
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2019, 08:35:32 pm »

I get what your saying but alot of us grew up putting the down horn sign when we where old enough to walk. You can't just drop that out of your mind. Hell I remember bonfires and hate Texas week! The whole state rallied behind it. It was our identity for a very long time, still seems like yesterday. I agree winning the SEC is more important but beating Texas for us old timers still hold a special place.

I'm old enough to remember playing in the SWC but if we are ever going to move forward we have to let go of the past
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