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Wow another NCAA scandal

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311Hog:

Except this one isn't to get elite athletes into schools they dont academically belong in, it is for the elite to use the athletic requirement loop hole to get little johnny into schools he/she don't belong in.

Lol wow i guess privilege has no end.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/report-college-coaches-hollywood-actresses-charged-in-college-entrance-exam-fraud/?fbclid=IwAR0r8VtBIdjrV39_Lcvp2OusGA9WJOAw0_rVU4uP1fM_JRHTQBk58VGhDSw

hogfan98:

I like how it mentions that no SEC schools are involved.  Well of course not.  If we're going to cheat, by gosh we're going to get a real player out of the deal. 

onebadrubi:

Entrance requirements should not be relaxed for athletes.   Like to see where that got us.  Lol

Wildhog:

Rich people pulling strings to get their kids into school?!?!  THE HELL YOU SAY

TexHog188:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 10:33:20 am ---I like how it mentions that no SEC schools are involved.  Well of course not.  If we're going to cheat, by gosh we're going to get a real player out of the deal. 

--- End quote ---

Or you could look at it like, no parent cared enough about any SEC schools that they would cheat (pay someone to take an ACT for their child) to get their child into one that they wouldn't otherwise qualify for academically.  (List included Georgetown, UCLA, Stanford, USC, Texas, Wake Forest, and Yale.  All respected and competitive academic institutions.)

311Hog:


--- Quote from: TexHog188 on March 12, 2019, 11:54:22 am ---Or you could look at it like, no parent cared enough about any SEC schools that they would cheat (pay someone to take an ACT for their child) to get their child into one that they wouldn't otherwise qualify for academically.  (List included Georgetown, UCLA, Stanford, USC, Texas, Wake Forest, and Yale.  All respected and competitive academic institutions.)

--- End quote ---
i agree, but i also believe each of these schools is about to take a major hit to their reputations.

A great deal of this "prestige" comes from the exclusivity and now it is coming to light with proof that that exclusivity isn't intellectually based in whole.   I mean something we all kind of knew already, anyone who has been in college pretty much sees or has seen "kids" that didn't belong there yet somehow they are, and flush with all the trimmings.

cardinalandwhite:

I wonder if there are some nervous administrators at Vandy right now.

Pat Goss:


--- Quote from: Wildhog on March 12, 2019, 10:57:38 am ---Rich privileged white leftists pulling strings to get their kids into school?!?!  THE HELL YOU SAY

--- End quote ---


HognitiveDissonance:

Yea, like George Bush Jr. could get into Yale on his own?

Like the Duke basketball players could into Duke on their own?

Not slamming Duke. Every school in America admits students based on musical talent, athletic talent, other talents and not solely on academic talent.
But Duke is extremely hard to get into.
The truth is always in the middle.
I think the Duke bball players are probably better academically than your average college basketball player.
But no way they would have gotten into Duke if not for hoops talent.

311Hog:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on March 12, 2019, 12:14:40 pm ---Yea, like George Bush Jr. could get into Yale on his own?

Like the Duke basketball players could into Duke on their own?

Not slamming Duke. Every school in America admits students based on musical talent, athletic talent, other talents and not solely on academic talent.
But Duke is extremely hard to get into.
The truth is always in the middle.
I think the Duke bball players are probably better academically than your average college basketball player.
But no way they would have gotten into Duke if not for hoops talent.

--- End quote ---

this is true, funny thing about this story is people using the lower or relaxed athlete admissions for their non athlete student.  So saying their kid is a long snapper at 145 lbs and never played football before, or on lacross team but the school doesn't have one....

Wildhog:


--- Quote from: 311Hog on March 12, 2019, 12:17:26 pm ---this is true, funny thing about this story is people using the lower or relaxed athlete admissions for their non athlete student.  So saying their kid is a long snapper at 145 lbs and never played football before, or on lacross team but the school doesn't have one....

--- End quote ---

A lot of long snappers don't weigh much more than that, ha.

Poker_hog:

Iím glad the fbi is saving us from theses monsters.

Pigsknuckles:


--- Quote from: onebadrubi on March 12, 2019, 10:36:01 am ---Entrance requirements should not be relaxed for athletes.   Like to see where that got us.  Lol

--- End quote ---

Nolan sure thought so.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Pigsknuckles on March 12, 2019, 12:36:34 pm ---Nolan sure thought so.

--- End quote ---

He wasnít real worried about graduating them either.

Inhogswetrust:

Once again the Feds doing indirectly what the NCAA canít do or wonít do. Thatís to clean up college athletics.

hogfan98:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 12:21:32 pm ---Iím glad the fbi is saving us from theses monsters.

--- End quote ---

What level of illegality do you think qualifies for FBI involvement?  It's a federal crime, so there's literally no one else with the authority or jurisdiction to get involved.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 01:23:48 pm ---What level of illegality do you think qualifies for FBI involvement?  It's a federal crime, so there's literally no one else with the authority or jurisdiction to get involved.

--- End quote ---
Thatís the bigger issue. The NCAA should have tougher jurisdiction with subpoena power and tougher punishment. The schools donít want it though.

Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 01:23:48 pm ---What level of illegality do you think qualifies for FBI involvement?  It's a federal crime, so there's literally no one else with the authority or jurisdiction to get involved.

--- End quote ---

What exactly is the crime here?  Trying to hard to get your kid into a good school?  Who is the victim?

311Hog:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 01:53:47 pm ---What exactly is the crime here?  Trying to hard to get your kid into a good school?  Who is the victim?

--- End quote ---

google fraud and i dunno read the article? it is pretty dang clear what the crime(s) are and who the victims are.

TrueBlue:

Lori Loughlin from Full House?






Grizzlyfan:

First I strain to see how this is an NCAA scandal.

Second, why didn't these people influence the University the way most rich people do?  donate to an athletic facility.

hogfan98:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 01:53:47 pm ---What exactly is the crime here?  Trying to hard to get your kid into a good school?  Who is the victim?

--- End quote ---

Are you being serious?  Bribing university officials with hundreds of thousands of dollars?  Cheating on college entrance exam scores?  Those aren't exactly legal activities.  And who's the victim?  Imagine knowing your child ( or even you) had an academic resume worthy of admittance but didn't get in.  Then finding out people were lying and bribing to get your spot.  These aren't community colleges we're talking about.  While there are a lot of other variables, a degree from one of these schools can potentially mean millions of dollars more in lifetime earnings.

But if you fail to see the issue with any of that then I can't help you.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 01:53:47 pm ---What exactly is the crime here?  Trying to hard to get your kid into a good school?  Who is the victim?

--- End quote ---

Itís a little crime called fraud.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 12, 2019, 02:16:14 pm ---First I strain to see how this is an NCAA scandal.

Second, why didn't these people influence the University the way most rich people do?  donate to an athletic facility.

--- End quote ---

Some coaches were named. Thatís why itís an NCAA scandal.

hogfan98:


--- Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 12, 2019, 02:16:14 pm ---First I strain to see how this is an NCAA scandal.

Second, why didn't these people influence the University the way most rich people do?  donate to an athletic facility.

--- End quote ---

Coaches were lying about these kids being athletes to get them lower admissions standards.  And getting kickbacks to do so.

311Hog:


--- Quote from: Inhogswetrust on March 12, 2019, 02:31:30 pm ---Some coaches were named. Thatís why itís an NCAA scandal.

--- End quote ---

also non athletes used athlete admittance standards etc.

tusked:

One if the guys at Yale made $2.7M over 4 years.   I guarantee he didnít pay taxes on that.  Why should he get a break when someone trading stocks and makes the same money over the same period damn sure pays taxes or goes to jail.

Grizzlyfan:


--- Quote from: Inhogswetrust on March 12, 2019, 02:31:30 pm ---Some coaches were named. Thatís why itís an NCAA scandal.

--- End quote ---
So if a coach defrauds the university by, say, falsifying expense reports is that an NCAA scandal?  This didn't involve competition so I'll bet the NCAA dismisses itself and let's the criminal system take care of it.  Or the universities.

Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 02:29:55 pm ---Are you being serious?  Bribing university officials with hundreds of thousands of dollars?  Cheating on college entrance exam scores?  Those aren't exactly legal activities.  And who's the victim?  Imagine knowing your child ( or even you) had an academic resume worthy of admittance but didn't get in.  Then finding out people were lying and bribing to get your spot.  These aren't community colleges we're talking about.  While there are a lot of other variables, a degree from one of these schools can potentially mean millions of dollars more in lifetime earnings.

But if you fail to see the issue with any of that then I can't help you.

--- End quote ---

I think itís despicable. 

However do we really need the fbi busting people cheating on exams? 



ricepig:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 02:50:30 pm ---I think itís despicable. 

However do we really need the fbi busting people cheating on exams? 



--- End quote ---

Itís my understanding that they stumbled across this when looking into Russian influence at Trump College.......

Pat Goss:

At least one of the indicted is athletic



Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: ricepig on March 12, 2019, 02:56:44 pm ---Itís my understanding that they stumbled across this when looking into Russian influence at Trump College.......

--- End quote ---

This thread is destined for the forum at the bottom of the page.  Might as well move it there now.

Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: Pat Goss on March 12, 2019, 03:00:20 pm ---At least one of the indicted is athletic



--- End quote ---

Thread saver

hogfan98:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 02:50:30 pm ---I think itís despicable. 

However do we really need the fbi busting people cheating on exams? 

--- End quote ---

I think that's oversimplifying what's going on here.  But again I'll ask, if the FBI doesn't who will?  If you let it go it will get out of control.

Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 03:15:22 pm ---I think that's oversimplifying what's going on here.  But again I'll ask, if the FBI doesn't who will?  If you let it go it will get out of control.

--- End quote ---

I would think the ACT and SAT would police themselves.

Same with the ncaa.  Coaches bribe players all the time.  Itís unethical but Iím not sure Iíd want the fbi wire tapping everyone and charging coaches an players with crimes. 

mhsbc59:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 02:50:30 pm ---I think itís despicable. 

However do we really need the fbi busting people cheating on exams? 



--- End quote ---

It mail fraud hence FBI

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 12, 2019, 02:45:02 pm ---So if a coach defrauds the university by, say, falsifying expense reports is that an NCAA scandal?  This didn't involve competition so I'll bet the NCAA dismisses itself and let's the criminal system take care of it.  Or the universities.

--- End quote ---

Coaches are employees of the schools and are under the umbrella of the NCAA and athletic entrance requirements were manipulated. The kicker though is that several schools are named. An individual coach falsifying an expense report ala Jim Harrick is a rule violation by the individual coach and only an individual school scandal. This incompasses several NCAA schools and several coaches. Thus itís an NCAA scandal.

Inhogswetrust:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 02:50:30 pm ---I think itís despicable. 

However do we really need the fbi busting people cheating on exams? 



--- End quote ---

Exams that are used by schools that get federal money. Exams that are cheated on via fraud that can impact others that donít cheat to try to get into those schools. I have no problem with the Feds involvement.

TexHog188:

Although some coaches are involved, I don't see this as an athletic department scandal per se, as the people involved were not trying to scam the recruiting process to better their athletic teams, but rather some non-athletic people were trying to be classified as "athletes" in order to gain admission under those guidelines which may or may not be less stringent. I would think that universities hold a certain number of slots for athletes vs normal freshman applicants.  Sounds like those involved were trying to buy/sell those slots on some of the more under the radar low profile teams (Crew for example). The coaches involved were acting out of self interest ($$$$) and not really trying to gain recruits for their teams. 

Not sure if this is still in place, but the University of Texas by law used to guarantee acceptance for any student in Texas who graduated in the top 10% of their class.  This creates an issue since with so many automatic acceptances, there are not many spots for others outside the top 10%.  Something like 75-80% of all incoming freshman were/are accepted under this Texas Law. The PTB needed/wanted more slots for "diversity" candidates (foreign, minority, low income, etc...). These other slots thus become very highly sought after and quite valuable as you might expect.  I can see this creating a sort of black market for admissions, thus you get the type of under the table activities like those in these indictments.

I'm not really shocked by it, it's like discovering that there is gambling at Rick's Cafe in Casablanca.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

parallaxpig:

One of Bruce Pearlís assistants involved.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26234766/ex-penn-coach-allen-says-took-300k-bribe

Superhog1959:

If there is 1 thing for sure in life. Where there is a lot of money. There is always, corruption, and pretty girls. 

COCHISE:


--- Quote from: hogfan98 on March 12, 2019, 10:33:20 am ---I like how it mentions that no SEC schools are involved.  Well of course not.  If we're going to cheat, by gosh we're going to get a real player out of the deal. 

--- End quote ---
This scheme was way too elaborate for SEC schools. We just give $180,000 to recruits dadís or get wiretapped making ďstrong-a$$Ē offers.

Poker_hog:


--- Quote from: Inhogswetrust on March 12, 2019, 03:46:57 pm ---Exams that are used by schools that get federal money. Exams that are cheated on via fraud that can impact others that donít cheat to try to get into those schools. I have no problem with the Feds involvement.

--- End quote ---

Those schools look at every grade.  So I guess you think we need the fbi monitoring little Johnnyís algebra exam too.

Grizzlyfan:


--- Quote from: Inhogswetrust on March 12, 2019, 03:43:31 pm ---Coaches are employees of the schools and are under the umbrella of the NCAA and athletic entrance requirements were manipulated. The kicker though is that several schools are named. An individual coach falsifying an expense report ala Jim Harrick is a rule violation by the individual coach and only an individual school scandal. This incompasses several NCAA schools and several coaches. Thus itís an NCAA scandal.

--- End quote ---
I'll bet you a Coke that the NCAA says to the FBI, you guys go ahead and handle this.

311Hog:


--- Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 12, 2019, 04:56:36 pm ---I'll bet you a Coke that the NCAA says to the FBI, you guys go ahead and handle this.

--- End quote ---

of course they will, they want this to go away ASAP.  Legitimacy is one the only things holding up the higher ed world.  Billions of dollars in student loans etc. "the American Dream" it is all at stake really.

erosion of pillars...

Hawgphat:

I view these "scandals" in much the same light as "The Watergate" episode tied to Nixon in 1972, - wherein Nixon "listened in" on the Democrats.  Sure it's unethical, - - but was/is anyone REALLY shocked and/or surprised at this development? - - I'm certainly not.  That's life, - - and that's human nature.  Situations such as these don't really impact me on a personal level, so I simply tend to blow them off.  I have a REALLY hard time working up a sense pf personal outrage over these "bombshell" disclosures.      :-\

Bacons Rebellion:


--- Quote from: Poker_hog on March 12, 2019, 01:53:47 pm ---What exactly is the crime here?  Trying to hard to get your kid into a good school?  Who is the victim?

--- End quote ---

The victim is the student that was rejected.

The problem isn't the parent trying to get their kid into a good school by cheating. It's with the school administration personnel allowing it to happen.

VU79:


--- Quote from: cardinalandwhite on March 12, 2019, 12:06:12 pm ---I wonder if there are some nervous administrators at Vandy right now.

--- End quote ---

Vanderbilt actually got a mention in the case, although none of the parent defendants are linked to VU  - a parent that ultimately 'bought' his kid a slot at USC as a long snapper through one of the "seller" defendants, was told that Notre Dame or Vanderbilt weren't possible because FB players had to have at least a 3.4 gpa and be "big time".  Apparently you don't have to meet either of those qualifications to be a long snapper at USC, if your bank balance is big enough.

See:  https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1105514742012100610/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105514742012100610&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvanderbilt.forums.rivals.com%2Fthreads%2Fvandy-mention-in-the-bribing-scandal-positive.52421%2F

sickboy:


--- Quote from: Hawgphat on March 12, 2019, 05:11:24 pm ---I view these "scandals" in much the same light as "The Watergate" episode tied to Nixon in 1972, - wherein Nixon "listened in" on the Democrats.  Sure it's unethical, - - but was/is anyone REALLY shocked and/or surprised at this development? - - I'm certainly not.  That's life, - - and that's human nature.  Situations such as these don't really impact me on a personal level, so I simply tend to blow them off.  I have a REALLY hard time working up a sense pf personal outrage over these "bombshell" disclosures.      :-\

--- End quote ---

People don't care about a lot of things until it's slapping them in the face.

Hawgphat:


--- Quote from: sickboy on March 12, 2019, 06:56:06 pm ---People don't care about a lot of things until it's slapping them in the face.

--- End quote ---

Quite true.  And if I happen to know that I haven't done anything to warrant being "slapped in the face", I strongly tend to disregard these PR scandals.

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