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Author Topic: Rebel might split  (Read 1018 times)

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kingoftherapids

Rebel might split
« on: March 06, 2019, 03:25:31 pm »

same purse of 1 mil for each and kentucky derby points the same on both with there not being a split in points.... game winner and improbable coming per rosario agent. and those to galilean and omaha beach... could be by far the biggest rebel weekend ever... holy cow
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HogFanInBryant

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 06:38:42 pm »

same purse of 1 mil for each and kentucky derby points the same on both with there not being a split in points.... game winner and improbable coming per rosario agent. and those to galilean and omaha beach... could be by far the biggest rebel weekend ever... holy cow

$750k per race, not $1million from what I just saw on Oaklawn's Facebook page. 
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 09:47:46 pm »

$750k per race, not $1million from what I just saw on Oaklawn's Facebook page.

Then 75% of the points instead of 100% of the points in each race
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HogFanInBryant

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 10:11:07 pm »

Then 75% of the points instead of 100% of the points in each race

Not sure, just saw that if it does split they will require 10 horses per race with a purse of $750k per race.
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holeinthewall

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 06:32:16 am »

Not sure, just saw that if it does split they will require 10 horses per race with a purse of $750k per race.

That still isn't bad and how will they determine which horses get in which race?  Hopefully a fast track as this weekend looks like a slop fest.
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 06:47:31 am »

Not sure, just saw that if it does split they will require 10 horses per race with a purse of $750k per race.

That is per Churchill or the group in charge of the point system.  To be fair, they said if 100% same purse for each race then 100% of the points, 75% then 75% and if they made it two $500k races then 50% of the points per race.
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Torqued pork

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 06:17:31 pm »

Baffert is shipping Improbable and Game Winner for the Rebel according to Bloodhorse. 

Russ22

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 09:33:26 pm »

Baffert is shipping Improbable and Game Winner for the Rebel according to Bloodhorse. 
I will be there to watch them run. Itís going to be a very big weekend.
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weevilhogg

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 10:36:53 pm »

I'll be there too.  Crowd is gonna be huge!
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riccoar

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 09:53:17 am »

MARCH 10, 2019
BAFFERT CONFIRMS CHAMPION GAME WINNER AND IMPROBABLE FOR REBEL

https://www.oaklawn.com/news/2019/mar/10/baffert-confirms-champion-game-winner-and-improbab/?fbclid=IwAR2XjS4mny8BeNdHx2vATaT2DL3_RxIsdspSwNaHJJLH_cCwukg3UTCwHRw#.XIVc0VG0rTo.facebook


To accommodate Southern California horsemen impacted by the move, Oaklawn President Louis Cella announced Wednesday the track was prepared to split the Rebel, which is scheduled to offer 85 points (50-20-10-5) to the top four finishers toward starting eligibility for the Kentucky Derby.

If the Rebel is split, each division will carry a purse of $750,000 and each division will offer 63.75 qualifying points for the Kentucky Derby. Oaklawn officials said Sunday morning that they were confident the Rebel would be split.
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Torqued pork

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 12:06:50 pm »

The forecast for Saturday is partly cloudy with temps in the high 50s. Should be a great day to be at the track.
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weevilhogg

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 06:17:20 pm »

I hope OP has its internet issues fixed.   Opening weekend the whole system crapped out.  The wifi crashed too.  It was sketchy this past saturday. 

If its out saturday i will leave and watch off site.   

Didnt have this problem until this year. 
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holeinthewall

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 10:14:59 am »

Any announcement yet on splitting it?  Could make for some great betting on the Pick 4 and Pick 5 with it split.  Of course 1 14 horse field would make for some nice prices if the favorites get beat.  And the Baffert horses won't get a work in over the track that is a big disadvantage to me.
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Russ22

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 10:23:39 am »

Any announcement yet on splitting it?  Could make for some great betting on the Pick 4 and Pick 5 with it split.  Of course 1 14 horse field would make for some nice prices if the favorites get beat.  And the Baffert horses won't get a work in over the track that is a big disadvantage to me.
I keep checking the entries, but nothing for Saturday yet. The extra $500k that OP is putting in if the field splits is a significant amount of money for the track. At 17% on track takeout for straight bets, that is almost $3M in handle to make up the difference. I can't see a split unless they really do have 20 horses entered based on that.
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userpick

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 10:47:06 am »

They draw here in a little while. The field will be split.
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userpick

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 10:54:19 am »

Iím hearing they were going to split with 18, but they now have 20. Either way, will definitely be two races.
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The Hogfather

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 10:57:08 am »

Iím hearing they were going to split with 18, but they now have 20. Either way, will definitely be two races.

YESSIR!
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 11:07:06 am »

Any announcement yet on splitting it?  Could make for some great betting on the Pick 4 and Pick 5 with it split.  Of course 1 14 horse field would make for some nice prices if the favorites get beat.  And the Baffert horses won't get a work in over the track that is a big disadvantage to me.

You think Baffert's pair not getting a work over the track is a big disadvantage?

I don't think he has ever worked one of them here.  They always just ship in 2-3 days before the race, get to gallop and jog over the track and then run back to California with all the money. 
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userpick

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 11:12:48 am »

You think Baffert's pair not getting a work over the track is a big disadvantage?

I don't think he has ever worked one of them here.  They always just ship in 2-3 days before the race, get to gallop and jog over the track and then run back to California with all the money. 

Agree with this. Itís very exciting for the community and track to have his super horses run here. But itís awful for the bettor. Without seeing any data, I would guess both win. Iím more interested in trying to beat Game Winner than I am Improbable. Game Winner doesnít have to win the race but Improbable does. But Iím sure both will crush.
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 11:22:36 am »

Agree with this. Itís very exciting for the community and track to have his super horses run here. But itís awful for the bettor. Without seeing any data, I would guess both win. Iím more interested in trying to beat Game Winner than I am Improbable. Game Winner doesnít have to win the race but Improbable does. But Iím sure both will crush.

Oaklawn should make Baffert run them against each other.  Baffert was going to run them against each other at SA and was going to ship Mucho Gusto here.  So make them run against each other here since he is shipping Mucho Gusto to Sunland to avoid running them against each other. 

Would also give the locals more of a chance. 
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userpick

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2019, 11:45:11 am »

The draw is on Facebook live right now if anyone is interested.
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holeinthewall

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2019, 11:47:49 am »

I keep checking the entries, but nothing for Saturday yet. The extra $500k that OP is putting in if the field splits is a significant amount of money for the track. At 17% on track takeout for straight bets, that is almost $3M in hmake up the differenceandle to . I can't see a split unless they really do have 20 horses entered based on that.

Santa Anita shut down and 2 prep races I would think the money pools will be huge Saturday especially with a big crowd, infield open sunny day and all the west coast money betting on their shippers.
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riccoar

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2019, 12:39:51 pm »

The original purse was $1 million, but they said if it went to 20+ horses they would split the races and each race would carry a $750,000 purse.

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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 02:06:55 pm »

I keep checking the entries, but nothing for Saturday yet. The extra $500k that OP is putting in if the field splits is a significant amount of money for the track. At 17% on track takeout for straight bets, that is almost $3M in handle to make up the difference. I can't see a split unless they really do have 20 horses entered based on that.

Significant amount of money? 

That's two minutes or less in the casino. 

Also, the purses on Saturday are $100k, $47k, $100k, $101k, $100k, $97k, $350k, $750k, $350k, $750k, and $100k.  That is basically $2.5 mil in purses if you take into consideration only $1 mil for the Rebel instead of $1.5 mil. 

Oaklawn putting up an additional $500k is really nothing at the end of the day. 
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Russ22

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2019, 02:21:21 pm »

Significant amount of money? 

That's two minutes or less in the casino. 

Also, the purses on Saturday are $100k, $47k, $100k, $101k, $100k, $97k, $350k, $750k, $350k, $750k, and $100k.  That is basically $2.5 mil in purses if you take into consideration only $1 mil for the Rebel instead of $1.5 mil. 

Oaklawn putting up an additional $500k is really nothing at the end of the day. 
Not really wanting to argue, but if it is nothing to them, why didn't they make each division worth $1 mil? Then, they wouldn't have had to deal with the 75% KD points thing.
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The Hogfather

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 02:23:10 pm »

Not really wanting to argue, but if it is nothing to them, why didn't they make each division worth $1 mil? Then, they wouldn't have had to deal with the 75% KD points thing.

Why do it if you don't have to?

cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 02:26:50 pm »

Not really wanting to argue, but if it is nothing to them, why didn't they make each division worth $1 mil? Then, they wouldn't have had to deal with the 75% KD points thing.

I'm sure there might be one or two here that could answer where exactly they took that money from, which would be why only putting up an extra $500k.  However, in the grand scheme of things, between the racing and the casino, you really think Oaklawn would be hurting by putting up another $1 mil?  Surely not.
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Russ22

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 02:30:36 pm »

Why do it if you don't have to?
Good point
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 02:33:27 pm »

Why do it if you don't have to?

This.  What was the options for all of the California horses?  Ship all the way to NY or to Florida?  For lot less money than Oaklawn? That is if the entry deadline hadn't passed for Tampa or NY.  Wait another week and go to Sunland? 

Baffert hasn't run Improbable or Game Winner, Galilean had been running against Cal Breds, and Omaha Beach only has a maiden win to his record?  So none of them really have time to wait around another week or so.  They have to run so they have the time off to come back for another points race. 

Oaklawn could have said screw them and not split.  Instead, Oaklawn puts up $500k and comes out looking golden.  Gets the pub from putting the money up to help out Cali horseman, will get more attention with the race split and more money bet.  Win win for OP all the way around
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holeinthewall

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 03:06:37 pm »

Not really wanting to argue, but if it is nothing to them, why didn't they make each division worth $1 mil? Then, they wouldn't have had to deal with the 75% KD points thing.

Regardless 2 horses get their ticket punched to the Derby by winning each division.  Just like 2 horses that ran 1-2 if it was 1 race were probably good on points.  So the number of horses qualifying for the Derby is the same and that is the real goal.  The extra purse money no one would turn down but the points not the purse is what matters.

Quote
I'm sure there might be one or two here that could answer where exactly they took that money from, which would be why only putting up an extra $500k.  However, in the grand scheme of things, between the racing and the casino, you really think Oaklawn would be hurting by putting up another $1 mil?  Surely not

If it is run any like any other business looking to make a profit they have a budget and they have a discretionary fund and unless Cella just says do it regardless of cost I am guessing the Controller lays out the financial situation and ramifications of the extra money and the CEO, COO, President and others make a decision on what to do.

But like others said it isn't that much to Oaklawn.  A nice sunny day 500k in purse is only 83k beers sold. 40k people on hand half drinking that's easily done

And if they were that concerned with handle they would make sure on a Saturday they had enough tellers on hand not to mention the slef serve machines to not leave another 100k per race waiting in line because they can't get their bet in
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 03:17:40 pm by holeinthewall »
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cbhawg03

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 03:52:21 pm »

Regardless 2 horses get their ticket punched to the Derby by winning each division.  Just like 2 horses that ran 1-2 if it was 1 race were probably good on points.  So the number of horses qualifying for the Derby is the same and that is the real goal.  The extra purse money no one would turn down but the points not the purse is what matters.

If it is run any like any other business looking to make a profit they have a budget and they have a discretionary fund and unless Cella just says do it regardless of cost I am guessing the Controller lays out the financial situation and ramifications of the extra money and the CEO, COO, President and others make a decision on what to do.

But like others said it isn't that much to Oaklawn.  A nice sunny day 500k in purse is only 83k beers sold. 40k people on hand half drinking that's easily done

And if they were that concerned with handle they would make sure on a Saturday they had enough tellers on hand not to mention the slef serve machines to not leave another 100k per race waiting in line because they can't get their bet in

Yeah, is it coming from purse money or Cella pockets.  Either way not hurting anyone and easily make it up.

Interesting from standpoint of do both count when the grades stakes committee looks at the grading of the Rebel. 
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weevilhogg

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:37 pm »

With all eyes (and ADWs) on Oaklawn Saturday, they can make up the additional purse money in takeout from wagering.   OP and Cella come out of this looking like a hero. 

Selfishly, I'd rather have one race with 14 runners. . . . .but that aside, it will be fun to watch.
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WBOBO

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 08:47:57 pm »

With all eyes (and ADWs) on Oaklawn Saturday, they can make up the additional purse money in takeout from wagering.   OP and Cella come out of this looking like a hero. 

Selfishly, I'd rather have one race with 14 runners. . . . .but that aside, it will be fun to watch.
I agree, but if it is split OP hits a major homerun to horse owners and trainers.  How will they decide who runs in heat 1 and heat 2 so one race is not too overloaded?
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kingoftherapids

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 10:13:35 pm »

Who cares if itís worth a million or 750 split? Same players were coming regardless
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kingoftherapids

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 10:14:50 pm »

I was in the racing office for the draw.  Racing secretary came in and said it would be split and they would split up owners first then trainers if the same.  Then they started the draw
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holeinthewall

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Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 04:45:32 am »

I was in the racing office for the draw.  Racing secretary came in and said it would be split and they would split up owners first then trainers if the same.  Then they started the draw

I don't agree with this at all. They should have just drawn 1-19 and the first 9 are one race the last 10 the other race.

No one noticed all the other races purse money was bumped?  3 MSW with an additional 17K per race. 

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Russ22

Re: Rebel might split
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2019, 07:55:07 am »

I don't agree with this at all. They should have just drawn 1-19 and the first 9 are one race the last 10 the other race.

No one noticed all the other races purse money was bumped?  3 MSW with an additional 17K per race. 


I was under the impression that an owner with more than 1 horse in the race had to run them as a single betting entity. If thatís the case, splitting first by owner makes sense.
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