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Author Topic: So De Jon Harris out for spring...  (Read 2443 times)

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hobhog

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So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« on: March 06, 2019, 09:30:53 am »

Friggin awesome. I know itís apparently minor but these foot problems have a way to pop up constantly. Coach Morris must be tempted to say a cuss word- I sure did.
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WOOPIGDOOIE

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 09:36:26 am »

Its a nagging injury that has been a problem for awhile, now is the best time to get it fixed. He will be ready for fall practice and 100% for season opener
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 09:42:55 am »

Itís spring..........relax.
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Rock City Razorback

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 10:22:16 am »

Will give other LBs more reps, which they greatly need!! Scoota we know is a good player, and if it's totally fixing a pre-existing injury that allows it to fully heal, it's a positive.
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liljo

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 10:25:13 am »

Scoota gonna be all right.  I agree with othersóthis will just allow more reps for the younger guys. We pretty well know what we have in Harris. Itís important for him to get repaired, then heal properly. Wonít take him long to get back in playing shape.
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A Hogwork Orange

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 10:25:26 am »

If we start seeing foot injuries with multiple players again, then I will be worried. They mentioned that it has been a problem for a while, so I can still blame the previous training staff for this one!
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Hugo Bezdek

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2019, 02:26:04 pm »

I know it's not reasonable, because he's not his dad, but I'd like to see #56 lined up at LBer this spring just to see if it takes. Especially given how thin we are right now at that position.
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TebowHater

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 02:41:24 pm »

Its a nagging injury that has been a problem for awhile, now is the best time to get it fixed. He will be ready for fall practice and 100% for season opener

Well, as you note, itís been nagging. They knew about this during last season and he could have undergone surgery at the end of the season, which would have been the true best time to fix it.

The fact is they didnít because the surgery is not the best option as these foot surgeries donít always do so great. It would have been better for him not to need it. He should hopefully be ok but itís not an injury or surgery Iíd wish on anyone.
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onebadrubi

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 02:44:29 pm »

Well, as you note, itís been nagging. They knew about this during last season and he could have undergone surgery at the end of the season, which would have been the true best time to fix it.

The fact is they didnít because the surgery is not the best option as these foot surgeries donít always do so great. It would have been better for him not to need it. He should hopefully be ok but itís not an injury or surgery Iíd wish on anyone.

My thoughts as well.  They had to been hoping for something else if they didn't have him go in for surgery after season.
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Porkys Revenge

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 03:11:15 pm »

Well, as you note, itís been nagging. They knew about this during last season and he could have undergone surgery at the end of the season, which would have been the true best time to fix it.

The fact is they didnít because the surgery is not the best option as these foot surgeries donít always do so great. It would have been better for him not to need it. He should hopefully be ok but itís not an injury or surgery Iíd wish on anyone.
yep
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rzrbk4life

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 05:06:33 pm »

Gentlemen we can rebuild him
We have the technology
We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic man
 De Jon will be that man
Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster

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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2019, 05:13:51 pm »

The
Curse
of
BB

#tcobb

Uncommon amount of foot injuries
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Porkys Revenge

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 05:17:12 pm »

The
Curse
of
BB

#tcobb

Uncommon amount of foot injuries
The lights go off. The freaks come out and the feet go snap.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2019, 08:13:41 pm »

Friggin awesome. I know itís apparently minor but these foot problems have a way to pop up constantly. Coach Morris must be tempted to say a cuss word- I sure did.

Ehhh, it has been stated that he could have used the spring to improve his pass coverage skills in prep for the NFL Draft and I hate it for him that he has lost this time for improvement.

However, this is really good for our other LB's especially with as thin as we are at that position, to gain valuable reps that might have been taken by Harris. In the end, this could very well have helped us because the LB's that we have all need to elevate their game in all phases beyond that which Harris needed to do. Harris is going to get drafted short of a disastrous season (not gonna happen) or a career ending injury. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to this young man who has been All-Hog. But this time with him out of the line-up and coaching others, should be valuable developmental time for the rest of the crew.

Sometimes, what is at first viewed as a negative event, can produce more positive results on the back side of that event. I suspect that this will be one of those events.
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LZH

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 03:42:04 pm »

We have more foot problems than any team I've ever seen.  Extra milk for everyone!

farmhawg

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2019, 03:58:42 pm »

MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2019, 04:01:17 pm »

We have more foot problems than any team I've ever seen.  Extra milk for everyone!

It isn't just us.

Stress Fractures in College Athletes

In the most comprehensive evaluation of stress fractures in collegiate athletes to date, Rizzone et al.1 examined data from the National Collegiate Athletic Association Injury Surveillance Program (NCAA-ISP) covering more than 25 sports from 2004Ė2005 to 2013Ė2014. A total of 671 stress fractures were reported after 11,778,145 athlete-exposures (AEs), for an overall injury rate of 5.70 per 100,000 AEs.1 Consistent with other studies, womenís cross country (29 per 100,000), womenís outdoor track (22 per 100,000), and womenís gymnastics (26 per 100,000) had the highest stress fracture rates, all with at least 22 per 100,000 AEs. Football had 57 total foot stress fractures: 50 metatarsal and three navicular. Three areas of the foot had stress fractures so rare they were included only in the total number of fractures for all athletes in all sports during the study period: five sesamoid, six cuboid, and seven cuneiform. The rate of foot stress fractures in football was 3.01 per 100,000 AEs. Seventeen of the 25 sports evaluated had higher stress fracture injury rates per 100,000 AEís than football. Sports with lower rates were menís and womenís swimming and diving, menís and womenís ice hockey, menís tennis, and menís and womenís baseball and softball. Conversely, womenís gymnastics, menís and womenís cross-country, , and womenís tennis had higher injury rates than football (see table 1 on page 20).1

With sports science, we are learning that a large acute-to-chronic-workload ratio at the beginning of the season, along with lack of proper bone loading in the offseason, can lead to a higher risk of stress fractures. The rate of stress fractures was 51% higher during preseason than during the regular season in the Rizzone et al study.1 Chronic overload can lead to stress injuries, most commonly due to fatigue rather than actual bone structure issues, yet stress injuries constitute only 2% of total football injuries according to a 2012 study.2 In a 2011 study of 320 college players invited to the 2006 National Football League (NFL) Scouting Combine, 72% of the players had a history of foot and ankle injuries, but only 5% had Jones fractures and 3.4% had Lisfranc sprains.3 Five injuries (lateral ankle sprain, medial ankle sprain, syndesmotic sprain, fibular fracture, MTP/turf toe) were responsible for 81% of the injuries, and these five did not include Jones fracture or Lisfranc dislocation. This study had a selection bias because players who are injured and cannot perform would never be invited to the Combine.


Loading more weight on bones and applying more stress to those bones through more weight vs. change of direction or through weight training just presents such a magnified stress to the bone structure that injuries are more likely to occur and though we are focused on our program, I would suggest that we aren't the only ones who are experiencing these injuries.

https://lermagazine.com/cover_story/stress-fractures-of-the-foot-in-football

twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2019, 04:08:20 pm »

"stress injuries constitute only 2% of total football injuries according to a 2012 study"


.....I may be wrong, but I think we are WAY above the average.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 04:16:08 pm »

"stress injuries constitute only 2% of total football injuries according to a 2012 study"


.....I may be wrong, but I think we are WAY above the average.

I just provided a link from July 2018 (not 2012) to the results of a verifiable study. According to this, there are a lot of foot related injuries and they can't all be ours, but I know that doesn't play into a lot of folks agendas. I agree that it seems like we incur a lot of those, but based on this study, we aren't alone. We are focused on our injuries so that is all we see and so naturally it seems like a lot. Who is monitoring the foot or ankle injuries of the other 128 Div I programs?
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ricepig

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2019, 04:23:34 pm »

I just provided a link from July 2018 (not 2012) to the results of a verifiable study. According to this, there are a lot of foot related injuries and they can't all be ours, but I know that doesn't play into a lot of folks agendas. I agree that it seems like we incur a lot of those, but based on this study, we aren't alone. We are focused on our injuries so that is all we see and so naturally it seems like a lot. Who is monitoring the foot or ankle injuries of the other 128 Div I programs?

Heís saying that more than 2% of our injuries are stress related, not that we are responsible for all of them, lol.
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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 04:24:33 pm »

Who is monitoring the foot or ankle injuries of the other 128 Div I programs?


We aren't talking ankles...we are talking feet

...according to YOUR linked 2019 article:

"Football had 57 total foot stress fractures: 50 metatarsal and three navicular. Three areas of the foot had stress fractures so rare they were included only in the total number of fractures for all athletes in all sports during the study period: five sesamoid, six cuboid, and seven cuneiform. The rate of foot stress fractures in football was 3.01 per 100,000 AEs. Seventeen of the 25 sports evaluated had higher stress fracture injury rates per 100,000 AEís than football."

Yes, that 3.01 per 100,000

...we have at least 3 per season on our team alone. It's not the fans just making stuff up here. We are well above average when looking at the studies you posted
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TebowHater

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2019, 04:33:51 pm »

At the peak of the Bielema/Herbert days, we were well above the average in terms of foot injuries compared to the rest of the SEC. It was statistically significant. Our rate over the past 1.5 years has been more in line with the rest of the SEC schools or maybe a bit higher but seems to be trending down.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2019, 04:49:25 pm »


We aren't talking ankles...we are talking feet

...according to YOUR linked 2019 article:

"Football had 57 total foot stress fractures: 50 metatarsal and three navicular. Three areas of the foot had stress fractures so rare they were included only in the total number of fractures for all athletes in all sports during the study period: five sesamoid, six cuboid, and seven cuneiform. The rate of foot stress fractures in football was 3.01 per 100,000 AEs. Seventeen of the 25 sports evaluated had higher stress fracture injury rates per 100,000 AEís than football."

Yes, that 3.01 per 100,000

...we have at least 3 per season on our team alone. It's not the fans just making stuff up here. We are well above average when looking at the studies you posted

How many Razorback football players (with links) have sustained stress fractures since 2008? You know, I agreed with you that our incidence seemed high, but I can't accurately compare that to the incidence of any other P-5 team. I just know that they don't all belong to us.
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TebowHater

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2019, 05:06:38 pm »

How many Razorback football players (with links) have sustained stress fractures since 2008? You know, I agreed with you that our incidence seemed high, but I can't accurately compare that to the incidence of any other P-5 team. I just know that they don't all belong to us.

Yesh this is an important point. Most of our foot injuries have not been stress fractures. IIRC, they've been 5th metatarsal avulsion fractures, Jones fractures, and a couple of Lisfranc injuries.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2019, 05:12:24 pm »

Yesh this is an important point. Most of our foot injuries have not been stress fractures. IIRC, they've been 5th metatarsal avulsion fractures, Jones fractures, and a couple of Lisfranc injuries.

OK, any of these that are commonly referred to as stress fractures.

Stress fractures of the foot result from repetitive microtraumas and chronic submaximal loading of tissues. Among football players, the most common are the Jones fracture, a break in the fifth metatarsal between the base and the middle, and the Lisfranc fracture, a fracture or dislocation within the Lisfranc joint complex, which stabilizes the midfoot and is critical for walking. Athletes in high-impact sports that involve running, jumping, or contact with others, such as football, are at higher risk for injury.
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LZH

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2019, 05:37:07 pm »

I wouldn't question your link and research MHF, but dammit, it seems like every year we have an impact player get an ankle/foot injury.  Every year.....(or it damn sure feels like it).
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2019, 05:47:12 pm »

I wouldn't question your link and research MHF, but dammit, it seems like every year we have an impact player get an ankle/foot injury.  Every year.....(or it damn sure feels like it).

I understand the frustration. Me too!
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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2019, 06:03:35 pm »

Tennis Elbow

Turf Toe

Ozark Foot
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TebowHater

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 06:29:33 pm »

OK, any of these that are commonly referred to as stress fractures.

Stress fractures of the foot result from repetitive microtraumas and chronic submaximal loading of tissues. Among football players, the most common are the Jones fracture, a break in the fifth metatarsal between the base and the middle, and the Lisfranc fracture, a fracture or dislocation within the Lisfranc joint complex, which stabilizes the midfoot and is critical for walking. Athletes in high-impact sports that involve running, jumping, or contact with others, such as football, are at higher risk for injury.

Unfortunately, the cited article above actually didn't state how they defined stress fractures and now we are getting into semantics. However, each of these also (and more frequently in a football player population) occur in an acute setting. I would argue most of ours have been acute fractures.

With that said, I absolutely believe that during the Herbert era we were doing workouts that likely created small subclinical stress fractures that may have manifest as the above acute fractures upon tackling/trauma/acute injury.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2019, 06:44:36 pm »

Unfortunately, the cited article above actually didn't state how they defined stress fractures and now we are getting into semantics. However, each of these also (and more frequently in a football player population) occur in an acute setting. I would argue most of ours have been acute fractures.

With that said, I absolutely believe that during the Herbert era we were doing workouts that likely created small subclinical stress fractures that may have manifest as the above acute fractures upon tackling/trauma/acute injury.

I'm not going to argue. The article states that all of those are under the general category of "stress fractures". I'm not going to assume what has happened or why it has happened but it is obvious that there has been a greater incidence of stress fractures of all kinds in football over the last several years.
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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2019, 07:36:31 pm »

I'm not going to argue. The article states that all of those are under the general category of "stress fractures". I'm not going to assume what has happened or why it has happened but it is obvious that there has been a greater incidence of stress fractures of all kinds in football over the last several years.

several years? I would venture to guess that they have been happening for much longer than that.

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TebowHater

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2019, 08:31:43 pm »

I am not even following what the argument is or who is on what side. Just for the sake of medical accuracy I want to correct the record, though.

I'm not going to argue. The article states that all of those are under the general category of "stress fractures". I'm not going to assume what has happened or why it has happened but it is obvious that there has been a greater incidence of stress fractures of all kinds in football over the last several years.

Sorry, I meant the cited scientific article [Rizzone et al., 1] didn't define what they considered stress fractures as; I wasn't referring to the magazine/website article itself, which is not peer-reviewed and substantially flawed. Anyway, per the blog's citation 2 (an actual scientific article - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497949/), which is actually the article the blog cites for their 2% incidence of stress fracture in football, this is what it says re the fractures I mentioned above...which is correct.

Re Jones and fifth metatarsal fxs - separate category and location than stress fx:
Fractures of the fifth metatarsal base may be categorized as avulsion, Jones, and stress fractures. Each fracture has a characteristic location (Figure 14A).

Re Lisfranc injury - stress fracture is not even mentioned once in the entire section of the paper on Lisfranc injuries, as these are typically traumatic injuries. Here is an excerpt.
Injuries at the tarsometatarsal, or Lisfranc, joint may occur in the setting of either high- or low-velocity trauma. High-velocity injuries are typically sustained in the setting of trauma associated with motor vehicle collisions or falls from a height.13 Sports-related injuries of the Lisfranc joint are generally considered low velocity, occurring during forced plantar flexion. Situations predisposing an athlete to this type of injury include certain stances, such as the linemanís blocking stance in American football, in which the foot is plantar flexed and the MTP joint is dorsiflexed, as well as activities involving the use of foot straps, such as surfing and horseback riding.

Ironically, this scientific article is the article where the blog got the 2% number from ["yet stress injuries constitute only 2% of total football injuries"]. But this article actually didn't analyze the incidence of stress fractures at all!!! And even worse - it doesn't say that stress fractures constitute 2% of football injuries, it says foot injuries constitute 2% of injuries ["foot injuries constitute approximately 2% of football, basketball, and womenís soccer injuries; 4% of menís soccer injuries; and up to 18% of martial arts injuries"]...which itself is a citation to prior studies, as again, the scientific article 2 wasn't intended to analyze the incidence of stress fractures.

Finally, I tried to find a supposed 2018 scientific article anywhere in this thread but I could not. There was a link to a physical therapist's blog (with the issues above) but there were no 2018 scientific studies cited in that article, and the blog itself was certainly not a peer-reviewed scientific article.

We have had close to 3 foot fractures/year the past several years. These are just not stress fractures our guys are getting is all I am saying. I do still think, however, that our guys could have had subclinical bone weakening from the workouts we were doing.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2019, 06:58:43 pm »

Has anyone looked at the number of stress fractures  sustained since the team began practicing on the new elevated practice fields above a parking area.  Beginning in 2015 when my son joined the team, I would attend practices.  He graduated early so it was the 2015-2017 seasons.  I commented once to my son that it felt like the field was moving as players went from drill to drill.  He told me that it felt that way because it does move.  Imagine 120 players moving on an unstable elevated surface.  If they average 250lbs as a group, thatís 30,000 lbs of mass moving on an unstable surface.  The practice fields move.   Iíve felt it.  It canít be good for feet or ankles.  I know my son always liked on the stadium field and indoor practices for the stability factor .Just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 05:06:29 am by FANONTHEHILL »
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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2019, 07:04:32 pm »

Good insight.... thanks
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2019, 07:55:56 pm »

Has anyone looked at the number of stress fractures  sustained since the team began practicing on the new elevated practice fields above a parking area.  Beginning in 2015 when my son joined the team, I would attend practices.  He graduated early so it was the 2015-2017 season.  I commented once to my son that it felt like the field was moving as players went from drill to drill.  He told me that it felt that way because it does move.  Imagine 120 players moving on an unstable elevated surface.  If they average 250lbs as a group, thatís 30,000 lbs of mass moving on an unstable surface.  The practice fields move.   Iíve felt it.  It canít be good for feet or ankles.  I know my son always liked on the stadium field and indoor practices for the stability factor .Just my thoughts.

Very interesting.  Seems a university ie a research institution would have someone that would jump at the chance to study this.  Unless of course they are afraid of what they might find and someone would have to say whoopsie. 
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Porkys Revenge

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2019, 08:20:41 pm »

Tennis Elbow

Turf Toe

Ozark Foot
The ozark foot is spreading. Shane Clenin is out the rest of spring with a broken foot and Grayson Gunter is out with a foot injury as well.
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hobhog

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2019, 08:39:17 pm »

The ozark foot is spreading. Shane Clenin is out the rest of spring with a broken foot and Grayson Gunter is out with a foot injury as well.

Of course he is. Jeez.....
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HogFansReunited

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2019, 10:26:33 pm »

Has anyone looked at the number of stress fractures  sustained since the team began practicing on the new elevated practice fields above a parking area.  Beginning in 2015 when my son joined the team, I would attend practices.  He graduated early so it was the 2015-2017 season.  I commented once to my son that it felt like the field was moving as players went from drill to drill.  He told me that it felt that way because it does move.  Imagine 120 players moving on an unstable elevated surface.  If they average 250lbs as a group, thatís 30,000 lbs of mass moving on an unstable surface.  The practice fields move.   Iíve felt it.  It canít be good for feet or ankles.  I know my son always liked on the stadium field and indoor practices for the stability factor .Just my thoughts.

Very interesting.
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LRhawg926

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Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2019, 03:30:35 pm »

Why are foot injuries so common with Razorback players????
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PorkSoda

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2019, 09:20:20 pm »

Why are foot injuries so common with Razorback players????
pepsi
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scaldedhog

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2019, 09:28:13 am »

Makes me wonder if thereís a correlation between different shoes and playing surfaces   
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ricepig

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2019, 09:39:45 am »

pepsi

I believe weíve found the answer.
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twistitup

Re: So De Jon Harris out for spring...
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2019, 12:36:15 pm »

I believe weíve found the answer.

Bingo
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