Hogville Info
• 10,269,495 Posts
• 407,543 Topics
• 23,310 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Any chance Gafford returns?  (Read 3389 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Leadbelly

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 379
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 722
  • Donít ya think someone oughta reckon with him?
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2019, 02:21:02 pm »

No.
Logged

zebradynasty

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 85
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,098
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2019, 02:32:24 pm »

You need to know that few things are black and white with me. I agree that it is black and white that those centers taken above Gafford were clearly better. But here's where I exit black and white on this topic: what if there are teams that did not take a center in, say, the 13-19 range because Daniel Gafford wasn't in the draft? We will never know. But it is possible. Teams can only draft that players that are eligible to be selected. How many teams would have taken Zion Williamson over a number of the high picks from last year if they could? Again, we'll never know, but we do know that Gafford was projected clearly higher than he is now. Maybe there's a GM for a team in the late lottery or mid first round that is licking his chops at the thought of drafting Gafford. It's hard to say because he's not being used at Arkansas like the NBA teams probably want to use him. They want him to be like Jarrett Allen type as a rim-protector on D and a pick-and-roll man on O. Anderson has Gafford camped in the paint, and that is most definitely where he will NOT be in the NBA.

Possible but just as possible that the NBA was not going to draft 5 freshman centers in the first 20 picks! Also, all 4 picks were expected to come out even more so than Gafford so them going high was not a shocker. It is conceivable that once a team found out that Gafford was not in the draft, they moved on to another position need. As i stated earlier if Gafford had a top 20 pick and traded it all in for a chance at the lotto...his drop in 2019 (if there is one) is ALL on him!
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2019, 02:38:41 pm »

Possible but just as possible that the NBA was not going to draft 5 freshman centers in the first 20 picks! Also, all 4 picks were expected to come out even more so than Gafford so them going high was not a shocker. It is conceivable that once a team found out that Gafford was not in the draft, they moved on to another position need. As i stated earlier if Gafford had a top 20 pick and traded it all in for a chance at the lotto...his drop in 2019 (if there is one) is ALL on him!

Agreed. What's happening now is all on him.
Logged

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2602
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58,002
  • Go Hogs and Go Eric Musselman!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2019, 02:41:18 pm »

He had as much of a chance of being on our bench next year as Ponderin...
This is sad, but true...   :'(

Me and Dan are gone!

hawg66

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2019, 02:44:13 pm »

He had as much of a chance of being on our bench next year as Ponderin...
Ponderin has a killer set shot from 8 feet. Hope he gets his chance.
Logged

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2602
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58,002
  • Go Hogs and Go Eric Musselman!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2019, 02:48:52 pm »

Ponderin has a killer set shot from 8 feet. Hope he gets his chance.
I have decided to go pro in something else.   >:(

Business decision...

GoHogs1091

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 285
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,184
  • Hogville.net Rocks!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2019, 03:01:44 pm »

This is a weak draft. Gafford would be doing a disservice to himself if he came back.

You are correct.

It is basically a 2 legit player and huge gap draft.

Zion Williamson
Grant Williams

Huge gap

The rest developmental players who need to work to get better.
Logged

Danny J

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 145
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,088
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2019, 03:09:24 pm »

This is sad, but true...   :'(

Me and Dan are gone!
Well if it doesn't work out you always have a job here keeping us entertained
Logged

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2019, 03:13:57 pm »

You are correct.

It is basically a 2 legit player and huge gap draft.

Zion Williamson
Grant Williams

Huge gap

The rest developmental players who need to work to get better.

LOL
Logged

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2602
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58,002
  • Go Hogs and Go Eric Musselman!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2019, 03:17:22 pm »

Well if it doesn't work out you always have a job here keeping us entertained
Tough crowd for sure...



 8)

Smithian

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2019, 03:18:17 pm »

There simply is no real argument he should have gone last year. The draft was absolutely stacks and good players were around in the 20's and early second round.

I just pulled up the draft and there is not a single pick in the lottery other than the Clippers with Jerome Robinson where you think maybe a team would have considered Gafford.

Once you hit Anfernee Simmons at #24 there is a run of guys you think Gafford is better than but Robert Williams was a good value in that range they passed over a big.

Someone is going to look at Gafford, see his super high FG #, his athleticism, and imagine having a rim runner ready to go on day one who is on a rookie contract.
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,979
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #61 on: February 20, 2019, 03:22:54 pm »

You need to know that few things are black and white with me. I agree that it is black and white that those centers taken above Gafford were clearly better. But here's where I exit black and white on this topic: what if there are teams that did not take a center in, say, the 13-19 range because Daniel Gafford wasn't in the draft? We will never know. But it is possible. Teams can only draft that players that are eligible to be selected. How many teams would have taken Zion Williamson over a number of the high picks from last year if they could? Again, we'll never know, but we do know that Gafford was projected clearly higher than he is now. Maybe there's a GM for a team in the late lottery or mid first round that is licking his chops at the thought of drafting Gafford. It's hard to say because he's not being used at Arkansas like the NBA teams probably want to use him. They want him to be like Jarrett Allen type as a rim-protector on D and a pick-and-roll man on O. Anderson has Gafford camped in the paint, and that is most definitely where he will NOT be in the NBA.

So you are saying that you don't notice Gafford in the pick and roll in our offense?

You are also saying that the NBA coaches are cunning enough th move him 20 feet out beyond his range in hopes of getting more offense from him?

I don't think the NBA cares much about how guys get used in college, especially Gafford. His potential is in his athleticism.
Logged

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2019, 03:29:37 pm »

There simply is no real argument he should have gone last year. The draft was absolutely stacks and good players were around in the 20's and early second round.

I just pulled up the draft and there is not a single pick in the lottery other than the Clippers with Jerome Robinson where you think maybe a team would have considered Gafford.

Once you hit Anfernee Simmons at #24 there is a run of guys you think Gafford is better than but Robert Williams was a good value in that range they passed over a big.

Someone is going to look at Gafford, see his super high FG #, his athleticism, and imagine having a rim runner ready to go on day one who is on a rookie contract.

Are you crazy?

After about the first 10 picks, any player at any position could be taken by any team. Teams are just picking best available at that point (or the most part) because the hit rate drops. Even if we look at need, Atlanta at #19 wouldn't want to pair Gafford with John Collins? Give me a break. Washington at #15 doesn't want a young big? Their best young big right now is......Bobby Portis, who they acquired around the trade deadline. Milwaukee at #17 was actually a popular pick for Gafford in mock drafts before we announced he was returning. He's also, unsurprisingly, being mocked to Milwaukee at the end of the first right now as well. I am floored that you are taking this position that is so easily debunkable.
Logged

lynbug

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 84
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,047
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2019, 03:33:16 pm »

I realize this is a Gafford topic...but I'm more concerned about what other players may leave (for whatever reason).  I know someone might call me out on this statement but....it happens every year.  I'm just wondering who, why, and where.
Logged

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2019, 03:36:55 pm »

So you are saying that you don't notice Gafford in the pick and roll in our offense?

You are also saying that the NBA coaches are cunning enough th move him 20 feet out beyond his range in hopes of getting more offense from him?

I don't think the NBA cares much about how guys get used in college, especially Gafford. His potential is in his athleticism.

They're going to have to move him out because he's not going to have much success posting up and scoring in the NBA where everyone guarding him is as tall or taller, as long or longer, and as athletic or more athletic. He has a nice touch on his jumper but it needs to be developed. And he needs to be used more rolling to the basket this season in the pick-and-roll. Most of his points are coming from O-board put-backs or post ups. I liked that he shot jumpers last year. I wonder if there is a correlation there with his draft stock being higher last year and lower this year in that in mind, though I tend to agree with you that the NBA probably isn't too worried about how he's being used because they're just going to rebuild him how they want to. And it won't look like what we're seeing, I can assure that.
Logged

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2019, 03:38:42 pm »

I realize this is a Gafford topic...but I'm more concerned about what other players may leave (for whatever reason).  I know someone might call me out on this statement but....it happens every year.  I'm just wondering who, why, and where.

It will be an ominous dark cloud hanging over the program as soon as the season ends. Losing someone like Chaney would be a serious gut punch.

Smithian

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2019, 03:44:45 pm »

It will be an ominous dark cloud hanging over the program as soon as the season ends. Losing someone like Chaney would be a serious gut punch.
Losing Reggie Chaney or another key player for reasons not personal in nature would be cause for serious termination discussions.

phadedhawg

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2019, 03:46:37 pm »

Considering the players that left after last season I thought Gafford was foolish to return for another year.  I'm glad he did, I love seeing him in a Razorback jersey but yeah...he's gone.
Logged

Hawg Red

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2019, 03:49:02 pm »

Losing Reggie Chaney or another key player for reasons not personal in nature would be cause for serious termination discussions.

I'd have to agree. If he can't keep the top recruits like Chaney in the program, what's the point?
Logged

BannerMountainMan

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2019, 03:49:15 pm »

Considering the players that left after last season I thought Gafford was foolish to return for another year.  I'm glad he did, I love seeing him in a Razorback jersey but yeah...he's gone.
Amen, tired of the arguing, you know they arenít Razorback fans if they are complaining he came back.
Logged

parallaxpig

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Total likes: 325
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,630
  • Man that ball got outta here in a hurry.
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2019, 06:36:56 pm »

No.

What u got against BP edited...won games, like motorcycles and blondes........
Logged

Danny J

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 145
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,088
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2019, 06:42:58 pm »

It will be an ominous dark cloud hanging over the program as soon as the season ends. Losing someone like Chaney would be a serious gut punch.
Yep...that's the guy that worries me the most. I wouldn't be as worried if Bailey was a senior.

Superhog1959

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2019, 06:49:44 pm »

25 years ago he would. And he should now. But he wont. He is gone.
Logged

99toLife

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 313
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17,556
  • Crazy Times Make Crazy people Crazier!!!!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2019, 06:52:43 pm »

25 years ago he would. And he should now. But he wont. He is gone.

Why do you think that? No way he should come back next year. 
Logged

ErieHog

  • Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Total likes: 916
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 51,034
  • Life as a Politics Mod....
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2019, 06:53:10 pm »

25 years ago he would. And he should now. But he wont. He is gone.

What's the logic in coming back?  He's not going to bump up the draft boards-- there is a pretty hard ceiling for upperclassmen in the NBA draft.   He gets a year older, when he could be getting a year closer to his second contract.
Logged

Swinerman

  • Guest
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2019, 08:55:05 pm »

I hope not
Logged

cjack

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 170
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 716
  • A dedicated fan base that few programs have
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2019, 09:07:18 pm »

I personally believe Gafford's NBA stock peaked halfway through last season.  The longer he stays, the lower his value goes.

Not meaning to bash him.  He's one of my favorite players, but other NBA level big guys out play him almost every time.

HogBreath

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2019, 09:08:46 pm »

This is sad, but true...   :'(

Me and Dan are gone!

Send some money home, son.
Logged

jackflash

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2019, 11:53:23 am »

just don't want to end up like Portis did in Chicago
Logged

99toLife

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 313
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17,556
  • Crazy Times Make Crazy people Crazier!!!!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2019, 12:48:48 pm »

just don't want to end up like Portis did in Chicago

Really, Portis is going to make some big bucks....starting next year. 

BTW- he makes big bucks now.. 

LJHOG

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2019, 04:10:34 pm »

Nah he said he stayed another year to get stronger and wasnít mature enough. Good choice, now go make some good money.
Well he ain't no stronger and his stamina is HS level.

99toLife

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 313
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 17,556
  • Crazy Times Make Crazy people Crazier!!!!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2019, 04:18:41 pm »

Well he ain't no stronger and his stamina is HS level.

That's why he should have jumped ship last year....

dsf

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2019, 05:19:15 am »

And the absolute best way to do that is to have the means to hire a personal shooting coach. He's not going to develop a jumper at Arkansas.
Due to not being taught a darn thing about inside big man play by this staff, he definitely needs a personal shooting coach.  I hope it's not too late.

dsf

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2019, 05:21:49 am »

What's the logic in coming back?  He's not going to bump up the draft boards-- there is a pretty hard ceiling for upperclassmen in the NBA draft.   He gets a year older, when he could be getting a year closer to his second contract.
The only logic in coming back would be if we had a new staff and someone accomplished in teaching big men.
Logged

SooievilleSlugger97

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Total likes: 2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2019, 08:51:21 am »

Sadly no, hopefully he has a good, healthy career as a pro
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,917
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2019, 09:28:36 am »

We can agree to disagree. I think had he gone out he'd have been in the Robert Williams and Mitchell Robinson range, they lasted until #27 and #36.

I still don't agree with everyone claiming Gafford has tanked. He has upped his scoring and rebounding and is posting better percentages. He is fouling less in more minutes. Turnovers jumped, but that comes from being doubled and tripled nonstop.

Daniel Gafford is going to be a first rounder and next year we're going to miss having a big guy who drops 16 and 8 with a couple blocks nightly. Not many of those players in college basketball and we've had them for six years.

Pippen started college at 6'3" tall.  Grew to 6'5" his Soph year, and then 6'7" in his Jr. year.  All the while, he maintained his ball handling skills, and he was versatile enough to play every position on the court.  His Sr. year, everyone expected him to blow up and score 30+ every game against lowly NAIA competition, but he managed about 23, because he garnered so much attention from the other team.  They would triple team him constantly, and take their chances with other players.  He's only on the greatest 50 in NBA history, and he really didn't get a lot of attention in college, other than from the Bulls...very late. 

I think Gafford is in about the same boat.  He's getting at least doubled the second he touches the ball, and the worst part of it is he works hard to get position...and they don't pass it to him.  I think he gets sick of it, and stops working as hard to get open at times.  He just simply does not have the players around him to pose a threat and make teams pay for double and triple teaming him.  He'll have threats around him in the NBA, and my guess is he'll be better than some anticipate him being.  If he's effective in the screen and roll, he'll carve out a place...and I think he's quick enough to fill that role.     
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,917
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2019, 09:37:49 am »

The only logic in coming back would be if we had a new staff and someone accomplished in teaching big men.

In his current role, playing primarily with his back to the basket, a lot of his success depends on others getting him the ball timely.  I think he probably thought...."Well, without Barford and Macon here "hogging" the ball (see what I did there?), next year I should be the "go to" guy and really be able to shine, and improve my draft stock."  I'm sure he was probably even told he would be the marquis player, and he has been.  The issue is....we don't have players who are effective at getting him the ball timely, and some who can't shoot well enough to pose a threat, so he's right back in the same boat...relying on others. 

I doubt he saw that coming.  I will say...he has to become stronger with holding the ball, and more stable with his core and leg strength, BUT...the NBA drafts on potential, so that wasn't a big deal going into the draft last year.  It's his ability to run the court, and be explosive on defense where he could shine, as he hopefully further develops as an offensive player.

IMO, if he had wanted to raise his draft stock, he would have needed to develop a short range jumper, show he could occasionally handle the ball in the pick and roll, develop a little more effective footwork on his post moves, and concentrate more on blocking shots without fouling.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but I didn't really see much change on any of those things.  He's pretty much the same player, just slightly better at the things he could do last year.  That's probably hurt his "potential" more than going last year, as a result.     
Logged

Snouty

Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2019, 05:02:21 pm »

No chance he returns now.
Logged

ErieHog

  • Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Total likes: 916
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 51,034
  • Life as a Politics Mod....
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #88 on: March 18, 2019, 05:11:40 pm »

In his current role, playing primarily with his back to the basket, a lot of his success depends on others getting him the ball timely.  I think he probably thought...."Well, without Barford and Macon here "hogging" the ball (see what I did there?), next year I should be the "go to" guy and really be able to shine, and improve my draft stock."  I'm sure he was probably even told he would be the marquis player, and he has been.  The issue is....we don't have players who are effective at getting him the ball timely, and some who can't shoot well enough to pose a threat, so he's right back in the same boat...relying on others. 

I doubt he saw that coming.  I will say...he has to become stronger with holding the ball, and more stable with his core and leg strength, BUT...the NBA drafts on potential, so that wasn't a big deal going into the draft last year.  It's his ability to run the court, and be explosive on defense where he could shine, as he hopefully further develops as an offensive player.

IMO, if he had wanted to raise his draft stock, he would have needed to develop a short range jumper, show he could occasionally handle the ball in the pick and roll, develop a little more effective footwork on his post moves, and concentrate more on blocking shots without fouling.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but I didn't really see much change on any of those things.  He's pretty much the same player, just slightly better at the things he could do last year.  That's probably hurt his "potential" more than going last year, as a result.     


He could have averaged 33/15 next year, and still wouldn't have helped his draft position. The odometer is ticking, and  21 year old bigs with no NBA experience are not in demand.
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,917
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #89 on: March 18, 2019, 11:20:42 pm »


He could have averaged 33/15 next year, and still wouldn't have helped his draft position. The odometer is ticking, and  21 year old bigs with no NBA experience are not in demand.

Where did next year come from?  I'm talking about this year.  I think he could have improved his stock had this been a monster year for him in addition to developing a mid range jumper, and possibly improving his ball handling a bit.  But next year...I agree...nothing he can do to improve it, other than less competition coming out possibly. 
Logged

ErieHog

  • Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Total likes: 916
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 51,034
  • Life as a Politics Mod....
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #90 on: March 18, 2019, 11:24:32 pm »

Where did next year come from?  I'm talking about this year.  I think he could have improved his stock had this been a monster year for him in addition to developing a mid range jumper, and possibly improving his ball handling a bit.  But next year...I agree...nothing he can do to improve it, other than less competition coming out possibly. 

He really couldn't.   I mean, he put up 20 double doubles,  showed the ability to block shots while cutting down on his foul rate, used both hands around the rim-- yeah, he didn't take jumpers, but there was obvious progress all over his game.    He had been a dire passer out of doubles, and was serviceable by the end of the year.     He couldn't have asked for that much more-- and it still wouldn't move the needle.
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 608
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,917
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: Any chance Gafford returns?
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2019, 07:48:56 pm »

He really couldn't.   I mean, he put up 20 double doubles,  showed the ability to block shots while cutting down on his foul rate, used both hands around the rim-- yeah, he didn't take jumpers, but there was obvious progress all over his game.    He had been a dire passer out of doubles, and was serviceable by the end of the year.     He couldn't have asked for that much more-- and it still wouldn't move the needle.

Well, we can agree to disagree.  If he had developed a jumper, shown the ability to dribble the ball effectively at all, and gotten significantly stronger...he could have raised his stock.  The things you're mentioning are slight refinements, and I agree...that it almost illustrates that he wasn't able to do what I'm guessing the scouts likely told him he needed to do to improve his draft stock.  That's the hypothetical side. 

Either way....it didn't help him to come back this season.  I think we both agree to that. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas