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Author Topic: Patrick Mahomes  (Read 5594 times)

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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2019, 02:28:22 pm »

Eastex, excellent recap of the Mahomes/Arkansas story (or, non-story). I'd seen the short version before. I prefer the long version.

TNRazorbacker

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2019, 04:59:28 am »

I don't recall Mahomes being a world beater at Tech. Started, was good, but nothing near what he's done in the NFL this past year. Maybe the NFL coaches were able to find untapped potential.  I think some guys skillset just translates to the pro game better. That said there 's no reason to think AR would have fared all that better with Mahomes under center.
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2019, 09:12:33 am »

I don't recall Mahomes being a world beater at Tech. Started, was good, but nothing near what he's done in the NFL this past year. Maybe the NFL coaches were able to find untapped potential.  I think some guys skillset just translates to the pro game better. That said there 's no reason to think AR would have fared all that better with Mahomes under center.

Mahomes had pretty good numbers at tech. The biggest difference is there is some defense played in KC and for a period of time they actually had really good run game. At tech he had 0 defense and 0 run game. So his numbers look like this because of the balance in the offense and better defense
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PonderinHog

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2019, 09:13:54 am »

KC fired their DC this week...
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2019, 09:30:41 am »

KC fired their DC this week...

I guess you missed the part where I said ďsomeĒ. Didnít say it was great, just ďsomeĒ.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2019, 09:48:17 am »

Pretty good numbers at Tech might be an understatement.

32 games    11,252 yds passing   98 TD's   29 Int's     848 yds rushing     22 TD's
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2019, 10:04:09 am »

Didnít win any big games there either.
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99toLife

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2019, 10:09:01 am »

Didnít win any big games there either.

What big games did Mahomes play in college?
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#hammerdown

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2019, 10:24:22 am »

Didnít win any big games there either.

Iíd say he won some big games this year
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2019, 11:33:15 am »

What big games did Mahomes play in college?

He was 0-8 against ranked teams as a starter at Texas Tech.
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2019, 11:45:45 am »

He was 0-8 against ranked teams as a starter at Texas Tech.

And heís now a pro bowler, possible league MVP and will have a record breaking contract coming up. Remind me again why his record in college all the sudden matter??
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2019, 12:24:53 pm »

And heís now a pro bowler, possible league MVP and will have a record breaking contract coming up. Remind me again why his record in college all the sudden matter??

His stats in college were brought up. I simply responded to a question I was asked about his college record. In fact, you mentioned his college career before I did. Try to keep up.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 01:09:56 pm by Dr. Starcs »
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psychhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2019, 01:09:20 pm »

Didnít win any big games there either.

Doesnít appear he had much of an opportunity to win big games and that is not his fault. Yeah they were 0-8 against ranked opponents during his soph and jr seasons, I donít think you can lay the blame on him. Heres some stats from the 3 ranked opponents his jr year. I didnít look through all his stats from the ranked opponents his soph year but they put up points against them.

In 2016  vs ranked opponents

OU: 52/88 734yds 5td 1int 85 rushing yds and 2td lost 66-59

WVU: 28/44 305 yds 1td 1int lost 48-17

OSU: 34/51 361 yds 3td 0int 2 rush td lost 45-44

Totals: 114/183 62% 1400yds 9tds passing 4tds rushing 2int 120 points

The other teams scored more. The kid could only do so much with team he had and it looks like he did his part on the offensive side of the ball lighting up teams. They had absolutely zero defense.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2019, 01:14:46 pm »

Yes, heís a stat machine. But my whole point is he hasnít learned to win big games. You can trace it back to college, regardless of his defenses. He may eventually get there, but isnít there yet. Qbs are measured by wins and losses, particularly on the biggest stages, right or wrong.
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k.c.hawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2019, 01:37:19 pm »

Yes, heís a stat machine. But my whole point is he hasnít learned to win big games. You can trace it back to college, regardless of his defenses. He may eventually get there, but isnít there yet. Qbs are measured by wins and losses, particularly on the biggest stages, right or wrong.


Good lord man. He left the field with the lead in both New England games this year. Left the game with the lead against San Diego and they beat him on a TD and 2 pt conversion with no time left on the clock. Against LA he threw for 478 and 6 TD's, put up 51 points. Every now and then the 11 guys on the other side of the ball need to see to it that their QB get's wins in big games.....when he has carried their ass on his back. With a half ass D this year he would be sitting at 17-1 and in the Super Bowl.

sowmonella

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2019, 01:53:52 pm »

Unfortunately his size and style of play will likely lead to a short career.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2019, 01:58:08 pm »

Nothing I said was untrue. In fact, the chief defense (while terrible) was still better in yards per play than the rams this year. As a qb, you are measured by winning games in the biggest moments regardless of your stats.
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psychhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2019, 03:17:04 pm »

Nothing I said was untrue. In fact, the chief defense (while terrible) was still better in yards per play than the rams this year. As a qb, you are measured by winning games in the biggest moments regardless of your stats.

True qbís are looked at by wins/losses. I guess I disagree somewhat to this mindset in general though if it is blatant that the reason a qb doesnít have more wins is no fault of his own but the players in the other side of the ball. You said you can trace it back to college. Look at the OU stats from the 2016 season I posted earlier. If mahomes was a stat monster against everyone except the ranked teams then Iíd agree with you. But he showed up in the big games. Is the reason they lost to OU because he had not learned how to win the big games? He threw for 700 yds and accounted for 7 tds in that game. I think we know the answer of why they lost that game and it certainly was not because mahomes doesnít know how to win big games though thatís not the first time that narrative has been spun for a qb. If tech had any resemblance of a defense then they wouldíve won more games and we wouldnít be having this conversation.
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2019, 03:34:30 pm »

True qbís are looked at by wins/losses. I guess I disagree somewhat to this mindset in general though if it is blatant that the reason a qb doesnít have more wins is no fault of his own but the players in the other side of the ball. You said you can trace it back to college. Look at the OU stats from the 2016 season I posted earlier. If mahomes was a stat monster against everyone except the ranked teams then Iíd agree with you. But he showed up in the big games. Is the reason they lost to OU because he had not learned how to win the big games? He threw for 700 yds and accounted for 7 tds in that game. I think we know the answer of why they lost that game and it certainly was not because mahomes doesnít know how to win big games though thatís not the first time that narrative has been spun for a qb. If tech had any resemblance of a defense then they wouldíve won more games and we wouldnít be having this conversation.

I tried to make this point out earlier but starcs didnít completely understand. You did a much better job than I did though with explanation. As starc told me, maybe he should read up bud.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2019, 03:51:12 pm »

Just an observation, but you spent alot of time going on about professionalism in journalism on another thread, and then you use terms like Bert in this one.  Sends mixed signals.
Yeah, it's just a message board, but your name carries more weight than most.  Bert seems beneath you.

The use of the term "Bert" in casual reference on a message board is not journalism. It's just me contributing to a conversation. If you see one of my published reports stickied at the top of this forum and linked to our Pig trail Nation website it is not casual conversation. It's a researched written piece with confirmed quotes. I don't quote anyone unless I've heard the quote myself. That's why these stories are stickied and not placed among the other threads. To separate them from responses in a thread which are observations or opinions,

Also my thoughts in a thread on this message board or causal conversations I have on the radio are in no way comparable with publishing a piece (in The Atlantic) claiming that Dan Enos left Alabama's staff without telling his boss when a named source is not used and there was apparently no attempt to contact either Enos or Nick Saban.

As for the use of the term "Bert," Bret Bielema was well aware that some used that nickname when referring to him and it did not bother him. He didn't win enough football games at Arkansas but he was enjoyable to work around in part because he had a good sense of humor. 

kodiakisland

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2019, 03:53:57 pm »

The use of the term "Bert" in causal conversation on a message board is not journalism. If you see one of my published reports stickied at the top of this forum and linked to our Pig trail Nation website it is not casual conversation. That's why it's stickied and not placed among the other threads.

Also my thoughts in a thread on this message board or causal conversations I have on the radio are in no way comparable with publishing a piece (in The Atlantic) claiming that Dan Enos left Alabama's staff without telling his boss when a named source is not used and there was apparently no attempt to contact either Enos or Nick Saban.

As for the use of the term "Bert," Bret Bielema was well aware that some used that nickname when referring to him and it did not bother him. He didn't win enough football games at Arkansas but he was enjoyable to work around in part because he had a good sense of humor. 

That's cool.  I just see your soapbox as a bit slippery, as most are.
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wachhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2019, 04:01:55 pm »

Me either.  And I have no idea why my computer does that.
Because he just looks like.a Bert?
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2019, 04:03:02 pm »

And heís now a pro bowler, possible league MVP and will have a record breaking contract coming up. Remind me again why his record in college all the sudden matter??

This was the original point you made to me, again after YOU brought up his college career.

Doesnít change the fact that he never beat a ranked team in 8 tries at tech. He was 1-5 in prime time stand-alone games this year. In fairness, he was 4-5 against teams with winning record this year. Football is the ultimate team sport, but qb is unquestionably the most important (and highest paid) position and therefore are judged by winning in big games.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2019, 04:09:56 pm »

That's cool.  I just see your soapbox as a bit slippery, as most are.

The day you see me accusing a coach or athlete of something negative in a published report, something I have not witnessed or confirmed by speaking with the people involved, I will accept your slippery soapbox claim.

I have been told many times by others in the media to avoid posing here for this very reason. That everything I post will be treated as a published piece of journalism. I have told those reporters that I don't see any difference in posting in a Hogville thread and giving my thoughts on sports talk radio.

I have to believe that most people understand the difference between that and seeing one of my Pig Trail Nation reports.

The real issue here is apparently my use of the term Bert. As I have previously stated I don't consider that an insult and neither does Bielema.  I had about 20 nicknames growing up. Unless somebody called me something like $h*thead I didn't get offended.

psychhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2019, 04:22:18 pm »

This was the original point you made to me, again after YOU brought up his college career.

Doesnít change the fact that he never beat a ranked team in 8 tries at tech. He was 1-5 in prime time stand-alone games this year. In fairness, he was 4-5 against teams with winning record this year. Football is the ultimate team sport, but qb is unquestionably the most important (and highest paid) position and therefore are judged by winning in big games.

Hereís his college stats against ranked teams. Again I donít think you can make the argument that them losing to ranked teams had much at all to do with mahomes performance. I know this is just how the perception is of qbs but they dont play defense. Looking at the stats, he definitely did his part to put them in position to win at least a couple of those games. If his stats were like this against everyone except the ranked teams, Iíd totally agree with you.


Updated to include 2015 stats and totals vs ranked opponents.

In 2016  vs ranked opponents

OU: 52/88 734yds 5td 1int 85 rushing yds and 2td lost 66-59

WVU: 28/44 305 yds 1td 1int lost 48-17

OSU: 34/51 361 yds 3td 0int 2 rush td lost 45-44

Totals: 114/183 62% 1400yds 9tds passing 4tds rushing 2int 120 points gave up 159 points

In 2015 vs ranked opponents

Baylor: 32/50 415 yds 3td 2int 1 rush td lost 35-63

LSU (ahhhh an sec defense): 28/56 370 yds 4td 1int lost 27-56

OU: 26/46 233yds 1td 4int 1 rush td lost 27-63

TCU: 25/45 392 yds 2td 0int 1rush td lost 52-55

OSU: 38/55 480 yds 4tds 2int 1rush td lost 53-76

Totals: 149/252 59% 1890yds 14tds 9int 4rush tds 194 points scored, avg 38.8 and gave up 313 points avg 62.6 points scored against.

Totals over both years against ranked opponents: 263/435 60% 3290 yds avg 411.25 yds per game, 23 passing tds 8rush tds total 31 tds, avg accounted for 3.87 tds per game, 11int avg 1.37 per game (4 of his 11 came in one game)(also only one game in which he threw more int than td) scored avg 39.2 ppg gave up avg 59ppg.

I would presume that tech also had inferior recruiting classes to these ranked opponents but I havenít looked at that to confirm.
 
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2019, 04:25:26 pm »

This was the original point you made to me, again after YOU brought up his college career.

Doesnít change the fact that he never beat a ranked team in 8 tries at tech. He was 1-5 in prime time stand-alone games this year. In fairness, he was 4-5 against teams with winning record this year. Football is the ultimate team sport, but qb is unquestionably the most important (and highest paid) position and therefore are judged by winning in big games.

So one person determines the outcome of the ultimate team sport as you say??? Letís get real you just donít like mahomes and want to take a shot at him if possible. What did the kid do to you? Plus who cares about his college career. It was at Texas tech. Big whoopty do! You must be real heartbroken over something he did to you or your team.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2019, 04:45:08 pm »

Hereís his college stats against ranked teams. Again I donít think you can make the argument that them losing to ranked teams had much at all to do with mahomes performance. I know this is just how the perception is of qbs but they dont play defense. Looking at the stats, he definitely did his part to put them in position to win at least a couple of those games. If his stats were like this against everyone except the ranked teams, Iíd totally agree with you.


Updated to include 2015 stats and totals vs ranked opponents.

In 2016  vs ranked opponents

OU: 52/88 734yds 5td 1int 85 rushing yds and 2td lost 66-59

WVU: 28/44 305 yds 1td 1int lost 48-17

OSU: 34/51 361 yds 3td 0int 2 rush td lost 45-44

Totals: 114/183 62% 1400yds 9tds passing 4tds rushing 2int 120 points gave up 159 points

In 2015 vs ranked opponents

Baylor: 32/50 415 yds 3td 2int 1 rush td lost 35-63

LSU (ahhhh an sec defense): 28/56 370 yds 4td 1int lost 27-56

OU: 26/46 233yds 1td 4int 1 rush td lost 27-63

TCU: 25/45 392 yds 2td 0int 1rush td lost 52-55

OSU: 38/55 480 yds 4tds 2int 1rush td lost 53-76

Totals: 149/252 59% 1890yds 14tds 9int 4rush tds 194 points scored, avg 38.8 and gave up 313 points avg 62.6 points scored against.

Totals over both years against ranked opponents: 263/435 60% 3290 yds avg 411.25 yds per game, 23 passing tds 8rush tds total 31 tds, avg accounted for 3.87 tds per game, 11int avg 1.37 per game (4 of his 11 came in one game)(also only one game in which he threw more int than td) scored avg 39.2 ppg gave up avg 59ppg.

I would presume that tech also had inferior recruiting classes to these ranked opponents but I havenít looked at that to confirm.

I totally admit that heís a stat monster. The next step in his career will be finding a way to finish those games in the biggest moments. The Dan Marinoís of the world are few and far between. Qbs need championships to cement their legacies. Heís young and still has plenty of time to do this. Identifying his limited faults at this stage in his career is key to him overcoming them. Thatís all.

Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2019, 04:47:21 pm »

So one person determines the outcome of the ultimate team sport as you say??? Letís get real you just donít like mahomes and want to take a shot at him if possible. What did the kid do to you? Plus who cares about his college career. It was at Texas tech. Big whoopty do! You must be real heartbroken over something he did to you or your team.

Your reading comprehension is awful. YOU brought up his college career, not me. Lmao.

The qb has the single most influence on the outcome of a game. You must know this. If not, I canít help you.
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kodiakisland

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2019, 05:06:14 pm »

The day you see me accusing a coach or athlete of something negative in a published report, something I have not witnessed or confirmed by speaking with the people involved, I will accept your slippery soapbox claim.

I have been told many times by others in the media to avoid posing here for this very reason. That everything I post will be treated as a published piece of journalism. I have told those reporters that I don't see any difference in posting in a Hogville thread and giving my thoughts on sports talk radio.

I have to believe that most people understand the difference between that and seeing one of my Pig Trail Nation reports.

The real issue here is apparently my use of the term Bert. As I have previously stated I don't consider that an insult and neither does Bielema.  I had about 20 nicknames growing up. Unless somebody called me something like $h*thead I didn't get offended.

Again, cool.  If you called him Bert when he was here and he didn't mind, great. 
You also know full well Bert is not used as a term of affection here on Hogville, but again, if that's what you called him when he was here and he was cool with, then I am too.
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CandleStick

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2019, 05:06:54 pm »

Your reading comprehension is awful. YOU brought up his college career, not me. Lmao.

The qb has the single most influence on the outcome of a game. You must know this. If not, I canít help you.

False, TNRazorback started the convo on his college career. I simply replied to it. Maybe you should check the top of page 2 and read some before you try and state facts of who said what first.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2019, 05:29:38 pm »

False, TNRazorback started the convo on his college career. I simply replied to it. Maybe you should check the top of page 2 and read some before you try and state facts of who said what first.

YOU responded to me by bringing up TO ME his college career. TNRazorback did not. Dear lord.
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k.c.hawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2019, 06:56:24 pm »

I totally admit that heís a stat monster. The next step in his career will be finding a way to finish those games in the biggest moments. The Dan Marinoís of the world are few and far between. Qbs need championships to cement their legacies. Heís young and still has plenty of time to do this. Identifying his limited faults at this stage in his career is key to him overcoming them. Thatís all.

Identifying his faults are simple. Be on the field last, or build a defense that can get a stop in the last 120 seconds of games. Signed 20 year season ticket holder.
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EastexHawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2019, 07:09:14 pm »

Identifying his faults are simple. Be on the field last, or build a defense that can get a stop in the last 120 seconds of games. Signed 20 year season ticket holder.

The best QBs all do that.

This thread is hilarious.

Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2019, 07:36:24 pm »

Identifying his faults are simple. Be on the field last, or build a defense that can get a stop in the last 120 seconds of games. Signed 20 year season ticket holder.

Yeah, Iím sure he wonít work on improving anything this offseason. Heís already perfect. Signed oblivious blinded fan.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2019, 07:38:14 pm »

The best QBs all do that.

This thread is hilarious.

No, the best qbs never quit working at every single aspect of their game regardless of how many fan boys tell them how great they already are. Also, the best qbs win championships. Multiple championships.

But chief fans donít know anything about that. And that is hilarious.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2019, 07:43:39 pm »

The best QBs all do that.

This thread is hilarious.
Can he play safety ???

psychhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2019, 08:51:04 pm »

I totally admit that heís a stat monster. The next step in his career will be finding a way to finish those games in the biggest moments. The Dan Marinoís of the world are few and far between. Qbs need championships to cement their legacies. Heís young and still has plenty of time to do this. Identifying his limited faults at this stage in his career is key to him overcoming them. Thatís all.

I donít disagree with your post here. I guess I just donít necessarily agree with stating a qb doesnít know how to win big games when heís done everything except play defense to stop the other team. I could be wrong but when I see a qb that is putting up big yards and a lot of points but is questioned for not being able to win big games, I think it typically means they are stat monsters against everyone but they donít play as well in the big games. This was my point in listing his stats against ranked opponents in college. It was brought up that he was 0-8 against ranked opponents which is completely true. But at least according to the stat sheet, it appears he had some great games against them and a couple of just ridiculous games but literally the only thing holding them back from at least a couple of wins on those games listed was a stop or 2 by the defense because he certainly wasnít being held back by the other teams D.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2019, 09:12:30 pm »

I donít disagree with your post here. I guess I just donít necessarily agree with stating a qb doesnít know how to win big games when heís done everything except play defense to stop the other team. I could be wrong but when I see a qb that is putting up big yards and a lot of points but is questioned for not being able to win big games, I think it typically means they are stat monsters against everyone but they donít play as well in the big games. This was my point in listing his stats against ranked opponents in college. It was brought up that he was 0-8 against ranked opponents which is completely true. But at least according to the stat sheet, it appears he had some great games against them and a couple of just ridiculous games but literally the only thing holding them back from at least a couple of wins on those games listed was a stop or 2 by the defense because he certainly wasnít being held back by the other teams D.

Very reasonable post as well.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2019, 09:25:18 am »

No, the best qbs never quit working at every single aspect of their game regardless of how many fan boys tell them how great they already are. Also, the best qbs win championships. Multiple championships.

But chief fans donít know anything about that. And that is hilarious.
Cowboy fans still living in the early 90s.... lmao
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pigzwillrise

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2019, 09:27:42 am »

Had he come to Arkansas then everyone outside of Arkansas would not even know who he is right now. He would probably be an assistant coach in Texas by now. Or maybe working for Tyson, Hunt or Walmart
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oldhawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2019, 10:00:18 am »

Quarterbacks never to have played in a super bowl:
1.   Dan Fouts
2.   Warren Moon
3.   Sonny Jurgensen
4.   Randall Cunningham
5.   Phillip Rivers
6.   Bernie Kosar
7.   Mark Brunell
8.   Dave Krieg
9.   John Brodie
10.   Tony Romo
11.   Vinnie Testeverde
12.   Ken Anderson
13.   Eddie Le Baron (sentimental favorite).

Quarterbacks who played in but did no twin a super bowl:
1.   Dan Marino
2.   Jim Kelly
3.   Fran Tarkenton
4.   Steve McNair
5.   Donovan McNabb

No greatness there?  As a GM would you have wanted any of these quarterbacks on your team in their prime?
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2019, 10:00:46 am »

Cowboy fans still living in the early 90s.... lmao

As opposed to chief fan living in 1970? 
Yes, lmao indeed.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2019, 10:31:15 am »

As opposed to chief fan living in 1970? 
Yes, lmao indeed.
The difference is chiefs fans know their struggle.... you guys still think youre Americas team...lolololol
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2019, 10:55:23 am »

The difference is chiefs fans know their struggle.... you guys still think youre Americas team...lolololol

Thereís no denying who that title belongs to. Hater. Lmao
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Hogtimes

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2019, 11:25:02 am »


Peavy just proves how ridiculous it is to get carried away with recruiting.   Lets hope that Jefferson does not turn out to be another Peavy.  Oh  I know, there are those that  can watch a high school high lights video and know for certain when a recruit is a can't miss prospect.
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EastexHawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2019, 11:48:46 am »

The difference between Mahomes and other Tech quarterbacks went way beyond stats.  Anyone who watched him play could see the difference.

It's the same way in the NFL.  It's not so much stats, it's in watching the way he plays and the things he can do...and regularly does...on the field.
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psychhog

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2019, 11:51:20 am »

Quarterbacks never to have played in a super bowl:
1.   Dan Fouts
2.   Warren Moon
3.   Sonny Jurgensen
4.   Randall Cunningham
5.   Phillip Rivers
6.   Bernie Kosar
7.   Mark Brunell
8.   Dave Krieg
9.   John Brodie
10.   Tony Romo
11.   Vinnie Testeverde
12.   Ken Anderson
13.   Eddie Le Baron (sentimental favorite).

Quarterbacks who played in but did no twin a super bowl:
1.   Dan Marino
2.   Jim Kelly
3.   Fran Tarkenton
4.   Steve McNair
5.   Donovan McNabb

No greatness there?  As a GM would you have wanted any of these quarterbacks on your team in their prime?

I donít remember anyone saying these werenít great qbís or saying there werenít great qbís who didnít win Super Bowls. Iím guessing you were responding to some of the things Dr. Starcs said. What I got from his posts was that he was saying qbís are measured by championships in the NFL. Whether right or wrong this is the accepted measuring stick by NFL standards (my comments to him were on specific things said about mahomes and his college days and stating he couldnít win the big games). I donít necessarily disagree with his assertion regarding qbís in general.

Yes there are some great qbís on that list. But are they on the same level as Montana, elway, favre, Manning, brees, or Brady? I think we know the answer is no and the reason is because of championships. I dont disagree with starcs comments regarding that. Who knows, if mahomes goes his whole career putting up ridiculous stats but no championships, he wonít be listed along with the names I just presented but heíll be on the list you provided and there is a separation between them. Iím not saying I hope that happens, just the reality of how qbís are measured.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2019, 11:58:52 am »

Mahomes will ultimately be judged on winning. Easttex and I have been lectured for years on our defense of Romo that this is the case. In kc, he may be remembered as the best qb in their history, but on a wider scale you have to win championships.

In Dallas, most people donít consider Romo in their top 2 due to his lack of postseason success even though his stats are much better than Staubach and Aikman. Thatís just how it is.
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EastexHawg

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2019, 12:11:22 pm »

Bob Griese passed for 155 yards in his career with only a few more TDs than interceptions.  His teams went to three Super Bowls and he has two rings.  He couldn't carry Dan Fouts', Sonny Jugensen's, or Dan Marino's jocks.

Then again, he didn't need to be able to.  He had three 1,000 yard rushers and his defense gave up 18 TDs in 14 games one of those years.

#1 STUNNA

Re: Patrick Mahomes
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2019, 12:24:24 pm »

Id say as a first year starter he has won plenty and put up incredible numbers doing so. He did stuff year one that that all time greats never did. And id guess not many of them had a better first year record as a starter or had their team a #1 seed, or a coin flip away from going to the super bowl. Oh yea all of this while having on of the worst defenses in the NFL and maybe the history.
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