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Author Topic: Arm Strength...  (Read 5653 times)

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HogBreath

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #100 on: September 04, 2018, 06:12:22 am »

What if Ty changed his name from Storey to Armstrong?  Ty Armstrong....no questions about arm strength anymore.

Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #101 on: September 04, 2018, 06:55:55 am »

As long as he doesn't change his name to Ty Bodyslam I'm good.......

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onebadrubi

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #102 on: September 04, 2018, 07:07:49 am »

One of these schools is not like the others .....yes, it's an offer- but it doesn't help further prove the point you are trying to make

Louisville was pretty bad this past weekend.  Ha

MissippHog

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #103 on: September 04, 2018, 07:17:29 am »

As long as he doesn't change his name to Ty Bodyslam I'm good.......
Or Ty Thirdandlong.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #104 on: September 04, 2018, 07:25:18 am »

Or Ty Thirdandlong.
Or Mr. Interception King.
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liljo

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #105 on: September 04, 2018, 08:27:31 am »

I saw a QB moving up in the pocket to avoid the rush and throw off balance to a streaking receiver. Had he stopped to set his feet the receiver could easily have been out of the end zone or a DB could have come into the picture and he might have gotten hit before he got the throw off. Storey made the play the best way he could.

What about the very next TD pass? 50+ yards in the air to hit the receiver in stride with plenty of zip.

You and I were watching the same game.

A slightly underthrown ball is catchable. An overthrown ball is I-N-C-O-M-P-L-E-T-E. As a fan, it is frustrating when a QB who overthrows a wide open receiver.

urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2018, 09:23:04 am »

I watched almost every game Ty played for 5 yrs. I would like to address the opinion I have heard on here that he could not run the RPO.  The best example I know to argue this is the State Champion game with Smackover, who had probably one of their best teams ever.

During the last 3 or 4 min. of the game with the score less than a touchdown apart, Charleston received a kickoff.  Ty ran the ball 11 straight plays to their 5 yrd line, then dumped a short 5 yard pass to the end zone for a TD.  I will let anyone look for a week and find another QB that has run ll straight times the length of the field for a TD.

Brandon Allen looked like a world class runner in HS.  He ran far more than Austin, and was successful doing it.  But...in the SEC against high level defenders, he was nothing more than "I have to run, so I'm going to run" ball carrier who looked a step faster than club footed. 

I'm not questioning his ability to run it 11 straight times against Smackover, and I'm sure it was great to watch.  He's not going to run away from LB's in the SEC...I've seen enough to know that.  If he's able to do just enough to keep the defense honest, then that's great, but for now...I think it's going to be RB's carrying the ball based on what I've seen. 

Rock City Razorback

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2018, 09:24:43 am »

If we could combine CK's size and arm strength with Ty's ability to run the offense and Daulton's quickness and agility, we'd really have something haha!

Uncle Remus

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2018, 11:02:49 am »

If we could combine CK's size and arm strength with Ty's ability to run the offense and Daulton's quickness and agility, we'd really have something haha!

His name would be KJ Jefferson!
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onebadrubi

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #109 on: September 04, 2018, 11:10:36 am »

His name would be KJ Jefferson!

Is he that big?
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2018, 11:10:44 am »

He made the throws needed and that all we need.

arthurhawgerelli

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #111 on: September 04, 2018, 11:22:56 am »

I was very proud of how Storey played.  It may have already been stated in this thread, and I missed it, but Ty's biggest mistake (in my opinion) was leaving high school early.  He got to spend a semester, or a portion of the the semester with Jim Chaney messing with his mechanics.  This is not to say that Chaney isn't a good qb developer, but in Ty's case he developed some sort of hitch in his release that really hindered him.  He seemed to be overcoming it last year, and Enos and Ty decided for Ty to wear a glove on his left hand.  For some reason, he started showing more confidence with that glove.  I think Ty had the glove on in pre-game, and possibly in the first series he was in, but I seem to remember he didn't finish with the glove.  The old "whatever it takes" philosophy.

His arm strength is adequate.  I watched him play some high school games, and I certainly thought he had D-1 arm strength then.  I think Chaney's coaching hurt him mentally (lost confidence in long throws).  Although, I felt like the first long pass would have been knocked away by an SEC DB, and felt it was a bit underthrown, it got the job done.  I understand why Morris hasn't jumped up on a table and boldly announced Ty is the starter.  He and Cole have their own strengths.  Kelley looked very unsure most of the time early in the game.  When he came back in, he played with more confidence.

With the same line in front of both of them, they both need to not get down on themselves.  The line is a long way from being any good.  Saturday, they seemed to pass protect better than run block.  Part of that is the EIU defense was conceding the QB keep on the zone/veer reads.  If we don't have a qb that can break for at least medium distance runs, the RB's (the position we are the deepest and have the most talent at) will continue to be stymied.

PonderinHog

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #112 on: September 04, 2018, 11:26:36 am »

IIRC, Chaney didn't mess with any QBs' mechanics, per Chaney himself.

HogHomer

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #113 on: September 04, 2018, 11:31:09 am »

I was very proud of how Storey played.  It may have already been stated in this thread, and I missed it, but Ty's biggest mistake (in my opinion) was leaving high school early.  He got to spend a semester, or a portion of the the semester with Jim Chaney messing with his mechanics.  This is not to say that Chaney isn't a good qb developer, but in Ty's case he developed some sort of hitch in his release that really hindered him.  He seemed to be overcoming it last year, and Enos and Ty decided for Ty to wear a glove on his left hand.  For some reason, he started showing more confidence with that glove.  I think Ty had the glove on in pre-game, and possibly in the first series he was in, but I seem to remember he didn't finish with the glove.  The old "whatever it takes" philosophy.

His arm strength is adequate.  I watched him play some high school games, and I certainly thought he had D-1 arm strength then.  I think Chaney's coaching hurt him mentally (lost confidence in long throws).  Although, I felt like the first long pass would have been knocked away by an SEC DB, and felt it was a bit underthrown, it got the job done.  I understand why Morris hasn't jumped up on a table and boldly announced Ty is the starter.  He and Cole have their own strengths.  Kelley looked very unsure most of the time early in the game.  When he came back in, he played with more confidence.

With the same line in front of both of them, they both need to not get down on themselves.  The line is a long way from being any good.  Saturday, they seemed to pass protect better than run block.  Part of that is the EIU defense was conceding the QB keep on the zone/veer reads.  If we don't have a qb that can break for at least medium distance runs, the RB's (the position we are the deepest and have the most talent at) will continue to be stymied.
Ty had that hitch in HS.
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arthurhawgerelli

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #114 on: September 04, 2018, 11:44:42 am »

Ty had that hitch in HS.

It didn't effect the zip on the ball like it did for the past 3 years, and it wasn't as pronounced.

IAMHogholio

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #115 on: September 04, 2018, 11:50:21 am »

The winningest QB in CFB history had one of the weakest throwing arms you’ll ever see.   Held a job in the NFL as a career backup and emergency starter for Detroit and the Cowboys.  Now he’s QB coach for Dallas.  I hope Ty gets his day and we can enjoy this former super recruit all year this and next.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #116 on: September 04, 2018, 12:06:23 pm »

Some service had Story grading out 2nd best in the nation,Total QBR.

Dr Carl aka Shorthog

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #117 on: September 04, 2018, 12:55:10 pm »

Looks to me like his set up and release is slow. That gives the defender time to move on the ball. His ball velocity is not burner but is sufficient

gawntrail

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #118 on: September 04, 2018, 01:05:57 pm »


Out routes in the SEC are a pick 6 waiting to happen...


Yep.  That out he threw early made me skip a beat.

twistitup

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #119 on: September 04, 2018, 01:19:57 pm »

Some service had Story grading out 2nd best in the nation,Total QBR.

That's awesome, do you have a link?
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26.2Hog

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2018, 01:32:21 pm »


Here are a couple of the rankings and they both have Ty rated 2nd.

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/qb-rating-ncaa
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PorkSoda

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2018, 01:32:39 pm »

How much importance is arm strength in a CCM offense? Decision making is most important, having the feet to move is important as well....what about arm strength? Is it just me or Ty's arm strength a little concerning?
wierd, I saw the opposite.

to me Ty came in and had more zip on the ball and faster decision making than cole did.

I think being able to sit on the sidelines and watch the flow of the game helped him.

I think Ty has a good chance at being the starter in the second game.
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twistitup

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #122 on: September 04, 2018, 01:34:04 pm »

wierd, I saw the opposite.

to me Ty came in and had more zip on the ball and faster decision making than cole did.

I think being able to sit on the sidelines and watch the flow of the game helped him.

I think Ty has a good chance at being the starter in the second game.

He will start, no doubt about it.

He made better / quicker decisions - for sure....but are you sure he had more zip than CK?

Maybe....
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #123 on: September 04, 2018, 01:42:40 pm »

That's awesome, do you have a link?
I don't know how to get it from my phone to screen but I think it was CFB focus says @cffmwachsman.
1 Tua Tagovailoa/Ala. 98.8
2 Ty Storey/Ark. 96.6
3 Eric Dungey/Syr 96.1
4 Bret Rypien/BSU 95.5
5 Anthony Brown/BC 95.1
6 Keytaon Thompson/MSST 95
7 Brady White/Mem 94.4
8 Steven Montez/Colo 94.3
9 Tyler Wiegers/EMU 93.8
10 Mckenzie Milton/UCF 93.2
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #124 on: September 04, 2018, 01:46:14 pm »

He will start, no doubt about it.

He made better / quicker decisions - for sure....but are you sure he had more zip than CK?

Maybe....
What difference does it make. Got the job done. I'm not for or against Kelly. I was of the opinion that we were sluggish/ not effective. Then it changed seemingly with the injection of Story. So to stay in the thread's parameters. I'd go with Arm Strength doesn't always equate to success within certain offenses.
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twistitup

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2018, 01:50:37 pm »

I'd go with Arm Strength doesn't always equate to success within certain offenses.

I agree - and you believe this is one of those offenses, I get it.

Go Ty ...as I have said multiple times I'm pulling for him. Don't be thin skinned, it's ok for CK to have more zip on his ball (stronger arm) and for Ty to be the best qb....if that is what happens I'm good w that.

We can have discussions w/o feelings getting hurt
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hawgon

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2018, 01:55:40 pm »

Like I said, none of our choices has a cannon for an arm, so decision making and all that clearly wins out.  A guy like RM at our level actually had a good enough arm that he made passes that were objectively bad decisions, but the ball got in there.  How many times did a bad decision by RM result in a laser beam bouncing off a DB’s stone hands?  Too many to count.  None of these guys throw hard enough to get that second chance.  Decision making is the MOST important thing.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2018, 02:07:56 pm »

Like I said, none of our choices has a cannon for an arm, so decision making and all that clearly wins out.  A guy like RM at our level actually had a good enough arm that he made passes that were objectively bad decisions, but the ball got in there.  How many times did a bad decision by RM result in a laser beam bouncing off a DB’s stone hands?  Too many to count.  None of these guys throw hard enough to get that second chance.  Decision making is the MOST important thing.
I didn't mean to sound defensive with the "what difference does it make" comment. I meant this for twist it. Srry.
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31to6

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2018, 02:43:24 pm »

Ty threw a 51 yard TD pass.....how much more arm strength do you want???? He doesn't have to be able to throw it from endzone to endzone......
Arm strength is easiest seen in how far a deep ball is thrown.

But it is most *important* when trying to put velocity on the ball to get it to the receiver quickly so the defense cannot react.

I think between Ty and Cole it may be a wash because Ty makes the decision faster and has a faster release, but Cole's balls have a bit more zip on them and he can throw it further with good velocity.

Ideally you want all three (along with accuracy), which is what NFL QBs have: quick decision making, fast release, good velocity on the ball.

For a lot of throws it's all about getting the ball to the WR as fast as possible with as little time for the defense to react. Getting it there fast reduces the risk of the throw, makes smaller windows viable and gives the WR more time to make a move after the catch.

A good example is the ball Cole almost had picked off. It was thrown with plenty of velocity, but he took so long to make the decision to throw and his release was so slow that it gave the defender time to break on the ball. Against an SEC DB that's a recipe for a pick-6.

To counter, Ty threw a couple quick outs, but he read the cushion immediately and got the ball out of his hand very fast, so even if it maybe wasn't thrown quite as hard it was much more successful because the defense was caught flatfooted.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 03:01:43 pm by 31to6 »
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PorkSoda

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #129 on: September 04, 2018, 02:56:23 pm »

He will start, no doubt about it.

He made better / quicker decisions - for sure....but are you sure he had more zip than CK?

Maybe....
for a guy with CK's arm strength, he wasn't using it IMO.  looked to hesitant and late on some throws.

Storey had more zip because he was more confident.  He wasn't perfect by any means, and threw into double coverage too often, but his confidence and quick decision making is what I saw that I liked.  He seemed like his head was in the game, he understood how to run tempo.  Comparatively speaking, he seemed like he had more zip on his throws and basically everything that he did. 

Seems like the fact that he didn't play much under CBB, has helped him because he has less to unlearn.  I was honestly surprised at how slow CK was throwing.  I expected him to be rocketing the ball in.  He is obviously capable of having more zip than storey is, I just don't think he showed it in that game.
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hawgon

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2018, 02:59:16 pm »

I would also imagine that Storey has completely bought in on the new coach and the new system.  I’m not saying that CK is a problem or anything like that, but you know that from the second the Morris hire was announced that Storey saw this whole mess as his opportunity.

gawntrail

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #131 on: September 04, 2018, 03:39:32 pm »

When a starting QB has lower arm strength than is the average then he has to have a football IQ and decision making abilities higher than the average.  That way he knows when NOT to try and make a throw.

justmakeit2thebcs

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #132 on: September 04, 2018, 04:38:46 pm »

Ty threw a 51 yard TD pass.....how much more arm strength do you want???? He doesn't have to be able to throw it from endzone to endzone......those of you who are looking for the second coming of the Ryan Mallet era are going to be disappointed....besides, this isn't a type of league where that type of passing game works.....Ty did an amazing job.....people should lay off him and Chad should give him the first team snaps.......he's our guy, now let him take over and become the offensive leader this team needs.....all of these people criticizing him are just all wound up because their glory boy Cole was taken out.....Cole was slow, looked confused, didn't excute and make decisions well.....Ty did everything on the first play out.......Ty is our guy.....
Look, Storey doesn't have the arm strength Kelley does. But what Storey has that Kelley doesn't have right now is knowledge of this offense which allows him to throw the ball just before the WR's come out of their breaks. The ball gets there while they are open. Cole Kelley almost threw a Pick 6 on a 10 yard quick out because he didn't throw it until he saw the WR was open, by that time it was too damm late and the EIllinois DB almost came up with a very long pick 6. Thank God for brittle hands on the EI defensive back. Kelley doesn't know when to throw the ball yet. Until he does Storey will be the man. Kelley may never learn, either.
When you throw it hard DB's can't catch it.  If they could catch, they would play WR.  Brett Farve may a great living breaking fingers.  Cole doesn't anticipate well, mostly because he has always relied on arm strength.  Early in the game, quick outs and check downs to backs were callled to give the OL a chance to settle in the the game.   Cole was 6/8 for 37 yds in 1st quarter, plus had a 13 yarder on 3rd an 11 called back due to holding. The 2 incompletes were where he was late on an out pattern and threw one away when a WR was covered on a corner route.   Everyone wants to act like he was awful, wasn't he just didn't have the chance (or chose not to) to throw the ball down field. 

gawntrail

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #133 on: September 04, 2018, 04:43:44 pm »

When you throw it hard DB's can't catch it.  If they could catch, they would play WR.  Brett Farve may a great living breaking fingers.  Cole doesn't anticipate well, mostly because he has always relied on arm strength.  Early in the game, quick outs and check downs to backs were callled to give the OL a chance to settle in the the game.   Cole was 6/8 for 37 yds in 1st quarter, plus had a 13 yarder on 3rd an 11 called back due to holding. The 2 incompletes were where he was late on an out pattern and threw one away when a WR was covered on a corner route.   Everyone wants to act like he was awful, wasn't he just didn't have the chance (or chose not to) to throw the ball down field.

The point of the forward pass is to advance the ball toward the goal line.  Hoping a DB doesn't catch it and/or breaking fingers if the DB gets the chance to catch it does not sound like sound coaching philosophy to me.

But, I might be seeing things wrong.
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PorkSoda

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #134 on: September 04, 2018, 04:45:18 pm »

When you throw it hard DB's can't catch it.  If they could catch, they would play WR.  Brett Farve may a great living breaking fingers.  Cole doesn't anticipate well, mostly because he has always relied on arm strength.  Early in the game, quick outs and check downs to backs were callled to give the OL a chance to settle in the the game.   Cole was 6/8 for 37 yds in 1st quarter, plus had a 13 yarder on 3rd an 11 called back due to holding. The 2 incompletes were where he was late on an out pattern and threw one away when a WR was covered on a corner route.   Everyone wants to act like he was awful, wasn't he just didn't have the chance (or chose not to) to throw the ball down field. 

I don't think CK was "bad"

but Storey was better.  he seemed more in tune with the offense, and ran the offense at a faster tempo.

lets see if Storey can keep that momentum going this week in practice and against CSU on the road. 
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Augustus

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #135 on: September 04, 2018, 08:24:16 pm »



I think between Ty and Cole it may be a wash because Ty makes the decision faster and has a faster release, but Cole's balls have a bit more zip on them and he can throw it further with good velocity.


I saw a great tweet about Cole's release, during the game:

"Man, Kelley has a release like 24-Hour Claritin."

https://twitter.com/twooldridge/status/1035990074570235905

I really did "LOL"
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havok

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2018, 08:35:37 pm »

When a starting QB has lower arm strength than is the average then he has to have a football IQ and decision making abilities higher than the average.  That way he knows when NOT to try and make a throw.

Drew Brees doesn't have too hell of a strong arm.. but that guy is a hall of fame QB.
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Oklahawg

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #137 on: September 04, 2018, 08:36:44 pm »

When you throw it hard DB's can't catch it.  If they could catch, they would play WR.  Brett Farve may a great living breaking fingers.  Cole doesn't anticipate well, mostly because he has always relied on arm strength.  Early in the game, quick outs and check downs to backs were callled to give the OL a chance to settle in the the game.   Cole was 6/8 for 37 yds in 1st quarter, plus had a 13 yarder on 3rd an 11 called back due to holding. The 2 incompletes were where he was late on an out pattern and threw one away when a WR was covered on a corner route.   Everyone wants to act like he was awful, wasn't he just didn't have the chance (or chose not to) to throw the ball down field. 


Good assessment.
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Cave City Joe

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #138 on: September 04, 2018, 08:43:30 pm »

Ty's arm isn't as strong as Cole's but he made good enough throws to score the long one.  I think part of the little underthrown or a little behind the receiver was timing with all the new receivers and not getting many reps under CBB
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31to6

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2018, 09:02:38 pm »

I saw a great tweet about Cole's release, during the game:

"Man, Kelley has a release like 24-Hour Claritin."

https://twitter.com/twooldridge/status/1035990074570235905

I really did "LOL"
That's funny.

Now here is the big question: What happens if Cole can speed up his decision-making as he gets more comfortable with the offense?

I have always thought he could develop into basically "Colin Klein with a better passing game". But if he can't speed up I can't see Morris patiently waiting for him to "get it". 

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Augustus

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Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #140 on: September 04, 2018, 09:58:37 pm »

That's funny.

Now here is the big question: What happens if Cole can speed up his decision-making as he gets more comfortable with the offense?

I have always thought he could develop into basically "Colin Klein with a better passing game". But if he can't speed up I can't see Morris patiently waiting for him to "get it".

I mean.... there's truth to the other side of the argument of:  In the 1st qtr, when Cole was in... we were trying to establish the run & absolutely could not... so by the 2nd quarter our Coaches knew they had to make adjustments...

Maybe if Coaches maybe the same play call adjustments in the 2nd quarter & left Cole in? He could've had similar results as Storey?

But... that's all speculation.  I'm sure we'll learn more, this is the 1st game after all.
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31to6

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #141 on: September 05, 2018, 07:53:27 am »

I mean.... there's truth to the other side of the argument of:  In the 1st qtr, when Cole was in... we were trying to establish the run & absolutely could not... so by the 2nd quarter our Coaches knew they had to make adjustments...
That's precisely what happened on the first two drives for sure. Inability to run put Cole in predictable 3rd and long situations where we didn't execute. I don't think we can blame the lack of 1Q productivity on Cole. Heck, if we run the ball well we are up 21-3 in the first quarter and the entire competition feels different. I am sure that is why Morris and Craddock defended Cole's performance in the press conferences. They know what was called and who executed and who didn't.

But football is pass-fail activity. Either you win or you don't.

I feel we are in a decent situation two guys who can execute the offense.
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twistitup

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #142 on: September 05, 2018, 07:58:57 am »

Weren't there a couple of drops when CK was in the game?

When I say drops...they would have been tough catches...but they should have been made.

Drops contributed to the lack of execution we saw.
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HoopS

Re: Arm Strength...
« Reply #143 on: September 05, 2018, 08:09:05 am »

Maybe someone else has said this RE: the long pass down the middle but the only way to really screw that one up was to either way overthrow it or way underthrow it and he did neither.
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