Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: GTOWNHOG on October 13, 2019, 09:55:14 pm

Title: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 13, 2019, 09:55:14 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: The Boar War on October 13, 2019, 09:59:24 pm
The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: factchecker on October 13, 2019, 10:00:42 pm
His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers (twice).
Bielema lost to Rutgers once.  John L Smith lost to them in 2012.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: BILLYBOB on October 13, 2019, 10:05:31 pm
Fans are right to be angry with the on-field performance of Arkansas Football. No one is suggesting we should be Alabama or Clemson...but for Gods sake we should not lose to San Jose State, Colorado State, or North Texas. And we ought to go at least .500 in SEC play and go to a bowl game (6 wins) most years. We are light years away from that standard.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 13, 2019, 10:09:11 pm
Fans are right to be angry with the on-field performance of Arkansas Football. No one is suggesting we should be Alabama or Clemson...but for Gods sake we should not lose to San Jose State, Colorado State, or North Texas. And we ought to go at least .500 in SEC play and go to a bowl game (6 wins) most years. We are light years away from that standard.

Why should we do those things you say we SHOULD do?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Razorback de Nosferatu on October 13, 2019, 10:10:17 pm
What a crock.

This clown show has lost to more rent-a-win opponents in 1.5 seasons than we did in the entire decade prior to his arrival.

His win total after two years will likely be similar to Smile’s season or what Houston Nutt did in his worst single season.

I don’t know how serious you’re being, OP, but not being an elite program doesn’t mean going 2-10, getting thumped by North Texas, and beaten by San Jose State and Kentucky’s fourth string QB is “carrying on the tradition.”

This thread is offensive.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 13, 2019, 10:11:48 pm
Bielema lost to Rutgers once.  John L Smith lost to them in 2012.
i stand corrected.  I attended the game in New Jersey (Piscataway), as well as the one in Fayetteville.  Rutgers fans ragged us pretty good, as they should have.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 13, 2019, 10:12:14 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

All truths.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 13, 2019, 10:12:50 pm
What a crock.

This clown show has lost to more rent-a-win opponents in 1.5 seasons than we did in the entire decade prior to his arrival.

His win total after two years will likely be similar to Smile’s season or what Houston Nutt did in his worst single season.

I don’t know how serious you’re being, OP, but not being an elite program doesn’t mean going 2-10, getting thumped by North Texas, and beaten by San Jose State and Kentucky’s fourth string QB is “carrying on the tradition.”

This thread is offensive.

FACTS are nasty things....
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Wooderson on October 13, 2019, 10:13:40 pm
Why should we do those things you say we SHOULD do?

Are you out of your mind?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: 26.2Hog on October 13, 2019, 10:20:04 pm


My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.


Good grief.

How old are you, maybe 10?

ESPN has us ranked historically at 19 which is NOT "very average". 

And what Morris is doing is NOT carrying on that tradition. 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: ShadowTheHedgehog on October 13, 2019, 10:21:04 pm
I still think that this idea that Arkansas cannot be competitive in the SEC is a bit of "Stockholm Syndrome" because of the past 6-8 years. I also do not believe that we cannot recruit decent talent to Arkansas. A decent coach would be able to recruit and win at Arkansas. CBB had off-the-field issues and that is why his recruiting suffered. CCM had a great class last year without showing anything on the field. I think that the program has a lot to sell, facilities etc. We just need a good coach that can win some games.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: jkstock04 on October 13, 2019, 10:22:41 pm
2012 SEC Record 2 - 6
2013 SEC Record 0 - 8
2014 SEC Record 2 - 6
2015 SEC Record 5 - 3
2016 SEC Record 3 - 5
2017 SEC Record 1 - 7
2018 SEC Record 0 - 8
2019 SEC Record 0 - 8 (Almost Guaranteed)

Keep buying your tickets and sending them your money.
This is where I sneer at the "patience needed" narrative.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 13, 2019, 10:23:43 pm
I still think that this idea that Arkansas cannot be competitive in the SEC is a bit of "Stockholm Syndrome" because of the past 6-8 years. I also do not believe that we cannot recruit decent talent to Arkansas. A decent coach would be able to recruit and win at Arkansas. CBB had off-the-field issues and that is why his recruiting suffered. CCM had a great class last year without showing anything on the field. I think that the program has a lot to sell, facilities etc. We just need a good coach that can win some games.

Decent talent doesn't win. Hogs were competitive last night, and against A&M. Competitive amd winning are 2 different things.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Muleriderhog on October 13, 2019, 10:24:45 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
Yeah this is dumb, minus the past 8 years we average 8 wins a year with 10 win seasons sprinkled in. Bret was bad but Morris is 100x worse, up until this clown show we have now we NEVER had to worry about beating rent a wins like SJSU.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: jkstock04 on October 13, 2019, 10:25:59 pm
FACTS are nasty things....
To be fair, you are taking the integrity years combined with this crap and acting like it's the norm.

The Ford, Nutt, and Petrino years are a larger sample size...and we were more middle of the pack and less Vanderbilt-ish.

When we decided to chest thump and raise the integrity flag over winning football games is when the program took a nosedive.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: ShadowTheHedgehog on October 13, 2019, 10:26:03 pm
Decent talent doesn't win. Hogs were competitive last night, and against A&M. Competitive amd winning are 2 different things.

OK let me rephrase that than. Talent that can compete in the SEC.

We keep hearing that we lose all these games because our player talent pool is so much weaker than other teams. We played a team that used a freaking WR as a QB.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Swinelake on October 13, 2019, 10:26:18 pm
FACTS are nasty things....
STATS, you mean.

And my FIL has a favorite saying: stats don't lie, statisticians do.

There's a lot left out here which qualifies this thread as lying by omission.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: TexasHog on October 13, 2019, 10:28:05 pm
The facts are every time we've had a good coach since Broyles we've run them off.
Holtz ran him off.
Hatfield ran him off.
Nutt ran him off.
Petrino ran him off.
Next good coach will be the same because that's what the PTB does.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: ShadowTheHedgehog on October 13, 2019, 10:32:15 pm
The facts are every time we've had a good coach since Broyles we've run them off.
Holtz ran him off.
Hatfield ran him off.
Nutt ran him off.
Petrino ran him(self) off.
Next good coach will be the same because that's what the PTB does.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: 26.2Hog on October 13, 2019, 10:36:25 pm
The facts are every time we've had a good coach since Broyles we've run them off.
Holtz ran him off.
Hatfield ran him off.
Nutt ran him off.
Petrino ran him off.
Next good coach will be the same because that's what the PTB does.

Holtz - fired
Hatfield - ran him off
Nutt - fired
Petrino - fired
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: TexasHog on October 13, 2019, 10:40:10 pm


Nutt's record at Arkansas was pretty good.

He had 6 seasons where he won 8 or more games.
He had 8 seasons where he won 6 or more games.
The least he ever won here was 4 games.
He won 9 or more games in 4 of his seasons.
And get this he lost bowl games in the 3 of the 9 or more win seasons including the season that he won 10 games.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 13, 2019, 10:42:19 pm
He had 6 seasons where he won 8 or more games.
He had 8 seasons where he won 6 or more games.
The least he ever won here was 4 games.
He won 9 or more games in 4 of his seasons.

That's pretty good.

75 wins
2 sec title game appearances.
2 western division titles.
HOF HC.

We won’t see or have a coach that will touch 75 wins in 10 years(7.5 win per season average) in our lifetime at Arkansas. Much less play in a SEC title game.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hobhog on October 13, 2019, 10:46:01 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Thanks, Dr. Phil, how have we managed without this deep insight?

We all feel better now I am sure.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: sickboy on October 13, 2019, 10:50:50 pm
I think people who are old enough to have grow up before we came to the SEC might have some idea of Arkansas football that is related to our old school days, but I'm 36 and I've never had any delusions of grandeur. I've only know us as a mid-tier program who has had a few good seasons here and there with some amazing talent sprinkled in.
 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: BILLYBOB on October 13, 2019, 10:58:54 pm
I think people who are old enough to have grow up before we came to the SEC might have some idea of Arkansas football that is related to our old school days, but I'm 36 and I've never had any delusions of grandeur. I've only know us as a mid-tier program who has had a few good seasons here and there with some amazing talent sprinkled in.
 

Your assessment is correct. Our all-time winning percentage is .583. That means we average about 7 wins per season. Every few years we’ll have a ten-win season...and every few years we’ll get 5 wins. Always competitive. We are currently playing far below those standards.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 13, 2019, 11:01:52 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
Except the goal is to improve.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 13, 2019, 11:02:42 pm
Your assessment is correct. Our all-time winning percentage is .583. That means we average about 7 wins per season. Every few years we’ll have a ten-win season...and every few years we’ll get 5 wins. Always competitive. We are currently playing far below those standards.

I remember an entire decade with no 10 win seasons.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: WMHawgfan on October 13, 2019, 11:03:15 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
i don’t see anyone saying we are elite. We are saying we are better than this garbage though. No reason we shouldn’t expect to mop up non power 5 opponents and expect 3-5 conference wins with an occasional great run with the right mix of players.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Dark Helmet Hog on October 13, 2019, 11:10:03 pm
Keep in mind this path started with John White. He worked to destroy athletics at the UA and was responsible for hiring Long. We are still feeling the effects of what he put into motion.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Occams Razorback on October 13, 2019, 11:10:53 pm
Nebraska and Tennessee are in as bad a shape as Arkansas - Texas was as well until Herman

I’d say all of the above are Top 20 all time if not Top 10

All of us have just been snakebit for the last decade or so
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Junkyard Hog on October 13, 2019, 11:12:03 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

What tradition is Morris carrying on?

His winning percentage against SEC teams is 0.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Razorback86 on October 13, 2019, 11:15:13 pm
Let me ask you Chad:
Why do we stink?
Why do we choke?
Where is that full tilt boogie that you spoke?
Over and over
Hogville keeps on dissin’
All week long we just piss and moan
It’s the hog fan tradition!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Razorback86 on October 13, 2019, 11:15:54 pm
Apologies to Bocephus
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Marshfieldhog on October 13, 2019, 11:20:07 pm
Bobby Petrino says hello.
You can win here
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Torqued pork on October 13, 2019, 11:21:29 pm
Bobby Petrino says hello.
You can win here
Correct
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: sickboy on October 13, 2019, 11:33:28 pm
Keep in mind this path started with John White. He worked to destroy athletics at the UA and was responsible for hiring Long. We are still feeling the effects of what he put into motion.

Does John White have a time machine? Because Arkansas football wasn't good before he got here either. Long didn't get hired until 2008. It started a long, long time before 2008.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Jek Tono Porkins on October 13, 2019, 11:34:41 pm
Why should we do those things you say we SHOULD do?
Because that was the standard until Morris got here? Losing to a pay-to-play team is unthinkable. I don’t think Nutt ever did it. Petrino never did it. Smile did it and Bielema did it once in 5 years. Morris is currently just over .500 against pay-to-play teams. And what’s frustrating about it is that he’ll lose to a pay-to-play team and then lose to a ranked SEC team by a touchdown. He sets the floor so low that that’s seen as “improvement” but I see it as evidence that we actually have the talent to beat the pay-to-play team and probably the SEC team, it’s just that Morris can’t coach his way out of a wet paper sack.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Jek Tono Porkins on October 13, 2019, 11:36:38 pm
i don’t see anyone saying we are elite. We are saying we are better than this garbage though. No reason we shouldn’t expect to mop up non power 5 opponents and expect 3-5 conference wins with an occasional great run with the right mix of players.
Exactly. That’s all we’re asking for here. I’m not asking to compete for an SEC championship every year. At this point I’m asking for Houston Nutt seasons. At the very least I’m asking to beat teams that we shell out money in order to play against.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 13, 2019, 11:55:28 pm
Bobby Petrino says hello.
You can win here

Hdn, hatfield, holtz, jfb all won here before BP showed up. But what all 5 if those showed is you have to have far above avg in state classes for a couple years paired with solid ol and dl play and a couple out of state studs.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 13, 2019, 11:58:14 pm
Because that was the standard until Morris got here? Losing to a pay-to-play team is unthinkable. I don’t think Nutt ever did it. Petrino never did it. Smile did it and Bielema did it once in 5 years. Morris is currently just over .500 against pay-to-play teams. And what’s frustrating about it is that he’ll lose to a pay-to-play team and then lose to a ranked SEC team by a touchdown. He sets the floor so low that that’s seen as “improvement” but I see it as evidence that we actually have the talent to beat the pay-to-play team and probably the SEC team, it’s just that Morris can’t coach his way out of a wet paper sack.

Look, i was never on the morris train, never thought he was anything but a settle. However, I also do not think AR is some giant of college football. They are average and average programs have really bad stretches amd really good stretches. They are hardly ever consistently good or bad.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Torqued pork on October 14, 2019, 12:01:25 am
The ugliest fact of all is we have fans who have given up on the program as a whole instead of realizing Morris brought nothing to the table other than an interview that "blew away" the non-football clowns responsible for finding a capable coach.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: EastexHawg on October 14, 2019, 12:12:51 am
Why are some fans so intent not only on being satisfied with terrible football, but trying to convince other people to give up on being anything more than a doormat as well?

I can't figure out why any Razorback fan would want to maintain the status quo and keep Morris around.  He's never going to be anything better than mediocre, and he would have to improve to achieve mediocrity.  The worst thing that could happen would be for him to finally win a game and convince the administration to give him more time.  Every game this staff coaches at Arkansas is a week that is gone and can never be gotten back.

"We suck and you people need to learn to accept it!" What kind of of outlook is that?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Jek Tono Porkins on October 14, 2019, 12:23:41 am
Look, i was never on the morris train, never thought he was anything but a settle. However, I also do not think AR is some giant of college football. They are average and average programs have really bad stretches amd really good stretches. They are hardly ever consistently good or bad.
You’re arguing against a position that nobody is saying. Nobody is saying we’re a giant of college football. We are saying that right now we are in the middle of what will end up being the worst SEC losing streak in not just our history, but CONFERENCE history since we joined the conference.

Again, I could live with it if we were showing improvement. But we’re not. There’s no improvement here. Morris is a sinking ship and the longer we stay on the ship the worse it’s going to get.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogs958 on October 14, 2019, 12:24:33 am
Jesus. Stop this self loathing crap. Expect better. We can be better.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GoHogs1091 on October 14, 2019, 12:28:59 am
The Razorback football program has never overcome the following.

The 1969 loss to Texas
The 1987 loss to Miami (FL)

Both of those were self-induced, which was the not kicking a field goal in the 1969 game, and the not hiring Jimmy Johnson that led to the dismantling in 1987.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: depressed_fan on October 14, 2019, 12:30:03 am
Fans are right to be angry with the on-field performance of Arkansas Football. No one is suggesting we should be Alabama or Clemson...but for Gods sake we should not lose to San Jose State, Colorado State, or North Texas. And we ought to go at least .500 in SEC play and go to a bowl game (6 wins) most years. We are light years away from that standard.

The problem is though, he's got a built in excuse that he's trying to win with Bielima's players and people initially wanted to believe Bielima was a poor recruiter.  So which is it, year 1 it's always "let's blame the last coach for these lower tier players".  Now, I suppose it's this new coach in year two should be doing better with the former coaches players. 

Our past SEC success has a common theme to it.  It started with Danny Ford replacing Crowe.  Ford was here 5 years.  Ford had a good 95 season winning the West, but people also agree he recruited well and left Nutt a good roster.  Nutt comes in and wins big year one with Ford's players, takes a dip around 2000, and keeps it rolling until 2004 and 2005.  I'd consider 2004 and 2005 rebuilding years.  In 2006 Nutt wins the west, is competitive with Florida in the SECCG, and the next year goes 8-4 and for his grand finale goes in to Baton Rouge and beats the eventual National champion.  Then he's run off, I guess b/c he lost to Alabama Auburn Kentucky and Tennessee.  Only one of those games we really should of expected to win but he made up for it with the LSU game.  I don't remember ever going in to a game under Nutt knowing we were going to lose.  Most this crap we've been looking at the last several years, we know we are going to lose before the game starts.

And the common theme, Nutt left Petrino enough talent to win with as well as there was a great in-state class Petrino's first year.  Remember, a lot of those guys that won all those games Petrino's year 3 and 4 were Nutt's upperclassmen.   If you think Chad may be adequate at recruiting the state of Texas, even if that's finding some diamonds in the rough, right now that's the best option.  If we get lucky, the next coach will be able to compete with his roster.  The Petrino to , John L, to Belima, to Chad transitions don't seem to be near to Ford to Nutt to Petrino. 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: SooieGeneris on October 14, 2019, 12:57:29 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Who said we were elite? DUH, you don't say Inspector Clueless-eau..
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: runninrazorback on October 14, 2019, 08:23:13 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
I wish they would get to average, 0-14 is not average.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: go hogues on October 14, 2019, 08:54:44 am
Nebraska and Tennessee are in as bad a shape as Arkansas
Tennessee, for all their fans (and the media on their behalf) handwringing and teeth gnashing, will probably make a decent bowl THIS year.

Tennessee would D E S T R O Y the Hogs this year.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Piggfoot on October 14, 2019, 10:47:00 am
Arkansas is not an Elite Program.
Arkansas does not have a nationally recognized tradition of excellence.
Arkansas does not produce sufficient SEC west D1 players.
Arkansas in modern  football has only been relevant in the conference with generational talent from Arkansas.
Arkansas with rare exceptions has to depend on players from other states who have been passed over by their mother state.
Arkansas has never had a coach in modern times that left voluntarily for  a better job.
Ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Razorback de Nosferatu on October 14, 2019, 10:48:24 am
FACTS are nasty things....

Arkansas is not an elite football program?

I'll give you that one. Fact.

Chad Morris is "carrying on the tradition" ?

No, that is not a fact. You can carry on all day long about how much Arkansas has struggled in the SEC, about how bad "Bert" was, etc. But struggling in the SEC is one thing. 2-10 is another. Losing to ULM under Smile after Petrino ran us into a ditch was not good. But it was at least swept under the rug of "[terrible] interim coach." Losing to Toledo was not good, but at least Toledo was a solid team that year, and that Bielema team went on to finish third in the West.

No, Chad Morris is not carrying on anything. That is NOT a fact. Chad Morris is producing results that are historically bad for our program. He is digging the basement deeper. THAT fact is what's "nasty."
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: OkieBack on October 14, 2019, 11:14:20 am
My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

I think this take is a bit unrealistic.  I don't feel Razorback fans aren't expecting a great football team year in and year out.  But 2-10 is a far cry from 8-4 or even 7-5. 

If Arkansas has historically been anything below average I don't think the fans at this point would care or be this upset.  Arkansas has set some level of expectation even if it means losing 4 or 5 games a season.  Arkansas is a program that should go bowling 7 out of 10 years.  There have been traditional bottom feeders in every conference but Arkansas has not been one of them, even in the SEC.

My concern is that I am seeing coaching mistakes as often as player mistakes.  The coaching has to be right at the top or else our whole team is flawed, regardless of what talent we put on the field. 

Chavis has lost me.  He needs to retire, seriously.  Morris is on a thin wire.  His decisions regarding QB play is baffling at times.  From here on out I would start Hicks and tell Starkel to keep studying the playbook, have the defense play bend-but-don't break, and possibly play KJ a half or two just to see what he looks like as a dual threat QB.  At this point it can't hurt so long as red shirt status is not threatened.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: 010HogFan on October 14, 2019, 11:20:05 am
This thread is stupid. We were never this bad growing up in my lifetime and we've been in the SEC the whole time.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Locutus_of_Boar on October 14, 2019, 11:35:22 am
Thanks, Dr. Phil, how have we managed without this deep insight?

We all feel better now I am sure.

Ugly fact Arkansas is facing this Saturday.
(https://2f13yq12csmv2yraq925m73i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Week3Learned1-718x490.jpg)
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LZH on October 14, 2019, 11:50:10 am
A couple of quick thoughts (not that you asked....)


Nebraska was a monster under Osborne, but it's located in the middle of nowhere.  Anyone remember where Tommy Frazier was from?....Bradenton, FL.  They recruited nationally.  To Lincoln, NE.  Also, Utah did great under Meyer.  In Salt Lake City (white snow, white people, etc.).

And has anyone wondered if Jerry Jones would be considered football royalty if he hadn't been on the same Razorback team with Jimmy Johnson?  How has he done since JJ left?  So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?


Just wonderin'.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on October 14, 2019, 11:58:40 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
Dude that is ridiculous. We BEGAN THIS DECADE with back to back double digit win seasons. Then hired the THREE WORST COACHES IN HOG HISTORY back-to-back-to-back.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LJHOG on October 14, 2019, 12:05:07 pm
The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.
Yeah, but didn't you want Nutt fired?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 14, 2019, 12:12:54 pm
I think this take is a bit unrealistic.  I don't feel Razorback fans aren't expecting a great football team year in and year out.  But 2-10 is a far cry from 8-4 or even 7-5. 



Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on October 14, 2019, 12:14:44 pm
Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
::)  No.  A little more to it than that as you know. 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 14, 2019, 12:27:36 pm
::)  No.  A little more to it than that as you know. 

Not with most fans. Most fans dont get into the personal lives of people. And back when Hatfield was here, with most fans it was a boring offense and losses to Texas that did it.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: al_pigcino on October 14, 2019, 12:33:09 pm
So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?

I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HogPharmer on October 14, 2019, 12:41:55 pm
***Inappropriate political content removed***.

Didn't you try to start a thread that said this same thing? Which was immediately deleted? Are you retarded or something?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Dark Helmet Hog on October 14, 2019, 12:46:15 pm
A couple of quick thoughts (not that you asked....)


Nebraska was a monster under Osborne, but it's located in the middle of nowhere.  Anyone remember where Tommy Frazier was from?....Bradenton, FL.  They recruited nationally.  To Lincoln, NE.  Also, Utah did great under Meyer.  In Salt Lake City (white snow, white people, etc.).

And has anyone wondered if Jerry Jones would be considered football royalty if he hadn't been on the same Razorback team with Jimmy Johnson?  How has he done since JJ left?  So what (other than $$$) makes him an expert on 'advising' the UofA on coaching hires?


Just wonderin'.

$$$ is the key.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogwop on October 14, 2019, 01:23:17 pm
Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.

Saying darn like this with nothing to back it up is why no one takes you seriously
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 14, 2019, 02:53:04 pm
Saying darn like this with nothing to back it up is why no one takes you seriously

Well, in 3 of his 5 seasons he had reached those #'s. Which is more far fetched, that, or those that say BP would have kept winning 10+ games a season?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: mj4president on October 14, 2019, 02:56:40 pm
i stand corrected.  I attended the game in New Jersey (Piscataway), as well as the one in Fayetteville.  Rutgers fans ragged us pretty good, as they should have.

To be fair, we started an NFL TE at Qb
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: 26.2Hog on October 14, 2019, 03:15:02 pm
Wrong. Hatfield won at a 8 or so win a year clip, and fans wanted him gone because he was boring and couldn't win the big game. HDN won at that rate over his 10 years, fans wanted him gone because he was boring on offense, and they didnt like how he treated poor wittle gus and his boys from s-dale. BB would have, over a 10 year span, won at that clip too, but a late collapse against Mizzu and VT, then a 4-8 season doomed him with most fans.
Wrong.

First of all, Hatfield won at a 9+ games per year clip. 

And for Bielema to win at an 8 games per year clip, he would have had to win 10 games per year for his next 5 years.  No one believes there was any chance that was going to happen.  Well, except for you.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 14, 2019, 03:32:15 pm
The facts are every time we've had a good coach since Broyles we've run them off.
Holtz ran him off.
Hatfield ran him off.
Nutt ran him off.
Petrino ran him off.
Next good coach will be the same because that's what the PTB does.
What do you mean, powers that be?
These are our own idiotic fans doing this.
In some ways, we deserve this right now.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 14, 2019, 03:36:29 pm
All together now...

"Hank, why do you stink?....
...why do you blow smoke?
Why must you live out the wrongs that you wrote

I'm just carryin' on that old..
Family Tradition'   "
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bennyl08 on October 14, 2019, 04:02:11 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Two points.

1. Morris isn't carrying on the tradition. He's 0-fer and losing to the really bad teams. Bielema was a 7-8 win a year guy who'd win 3-4 SEC games most years. Morris isn't just bad, but historically bad and on pace to be objectively the worst coach in our history and among the worst coaches ever in the history of the SEC.

2. You are right about what our program averages. However, there's a difference between what we should expect and what we should accept. An average coach can come here, recruit at a very average level, and get very average results and we should still consistently make bowl games every year. That is the bare minimum and won't get you long term success.

What our fan base should accept as our "place" in the SEC is a coach who can average ~9 wins a year in the SEC-west. And you'll find that about one in four hires here does just that at their equilibrium. So, it's not like asking for a once in a lifetime level coach to only accept that level of success long term.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LZH on October 14, 2019, 05:32:37 pm
I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.

How's that NFL playoff record since JJ split?  Don't bitch and run, let's hear it.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogwop on October 14, 2019, 05:37:20 pm
Well, in 3 of his 5 seasons he had reached those #'s. Which is more far fetched, that, or those that say BP would have kept winning 10+ games a season?

He won 8 games one season, that does not an average make. So, no, he didnt reach those #s 3 out of 5 seasons. Who the Frank is talking about Petrino?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: CivilBoar on October 14, 2019, 05:48:34 pm
I think there's already a consensus around the idea that Arkansas does not have an elite football program. Elite would seem to mean something like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Arkansas fans are unusually tolerant and patient if compared to fanbases like that. Try to coach at more or less any program in the Power 5, go 2-10 in your first year, getting slammed by North Texas, then go into year two and lose to San Jose State and put up another losing record. More or less anywhere. Oregon State, NC State, Syracuse, Arizona State, Louisville, etc. Lemme know how the fanbase reacts.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bennyl08 on October 14, 2019, 05:58:50 pm
I think there's already a consensus around the idea that Arkansas does not have an elite football program. Elite would seem to mean something like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. Arkansas fans are unusually tolerant and patient if compared to fanbases like that. Try to coach at more or less any program in the Power 5, go 2-10 in your first year, getting slammed by North Texas, then go into year two and lose to San Jose State and put up another losing record. More or less anywhere. Oregon State, NC State, Syracuse, Arizona State, Louisville, etc. Lemme know how the fanbase reacts.

Case in point, Oregon State hasn't even made a bowl game since 2013. 3 of their past 4 full seasons they only 2 games or less.

And even they haven't been as bad as Arkansas is right now and despite doing better under they still had an appetite for more. Gary Anderson went 2-10 his first year. He went 4-8 his 2nd year going 3-6 in conference play. He voluntarily resigned in the middle of year three because he started 1-5 and new he was sucking too bad.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 14, 2019, 06:46:37 pm
Who said we were elite? DUH, you don't say Inspector Clueless-eau..

When you read a lot of the post it sure seems a lot of people do think we have a great history and are or should be an elite program.  I'm not sure why they feel that way but fan loyalty is a strong thing.  To get there we need to hire the right guy with the right plan and recruit the  elite players.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bennyl08 on October 14, 2019, 08:58:30 pm
When you read a lot of the post it sure seems a lot of people do think we have a great history and are or should be an elite program.  I'm not sure why they feel that way but fan loyalty is a strong thing.  To get there we need to hire the right guy with the right plan and recruit the  elite players.

I read a lot of the posts here and in no way, shape, or form get the vibes that you seem to be getting.

We do have a great history, but even our history isn't an elite one. It is a top 25 history though. And even in the SEC, our baseline is still a bowl team on average with a division title and/or 10+ win season about once every 5 years or so.

In terms of what to look for moving forward, let's look at an analogy and stick with football. Let's say you have recruited 5 qb's. Just playing probability, one of those qb's is going to suck, 3 will be okay, and one will be quite good. You recruit all 5, but you name the best one the starter. Not every HC we hire will be a great HC. Most are going to do similar to Bielema winning 6-8 games a year unless they lose the lockerroom. One will be pretty bad, and one will be quite good. You stick long term with the one who is quite good, you cut your losses quickly with the really bad one, and you give the middle ground coaches some time, but eventually move on knowing you will find a quite good one.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Razorback Red on October 14, 2019, 09:00:28 pm
The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.

We are 13 - 46 since 2012 .... yes, we have won 13 SEC games in the past 8 years, not very competitive in my book.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 14, 2019, 09:35:47 pm
We are 13 - 46 since 2012 .... yes, we have won 13 SEC games in the past 8 years, not very competitive in my book.
Somebody thought Chad Morris was the guy to fix that. So he proceeds to go 0-11 in SEC.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: popcornhog on October 14, 2019, 09:59:07 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Morris is nowhere near average.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 14, 2019, 10:24:37 pm
I read a lot of the posts here and in no way, shape, or form get the vibes that you seem to be getting.

We do have a great history, but even our history isn't an elite one. It is a top 25 history though. And even in the SEC, our baseline is still a bowl team on average with a division title and/or 10+ win season about once every 5 years or so.


Arkansas has been in the SEC since 1992.  We have won or shared THREE SEC West titles.  That averages out to one Division Title every NINE years.  There have been no SEC Championships in 27 years.  We have THREE 10+ win seasons in the last 27 years. (2006, 2010, 2011.) That averages out to one every 9 years.  Finally, post season rankings look like this since 1992:  1998 #16, 1999 #17, 2006 #15, 2010 #12,  2011 #5.   That's it.  We have been ranked in the post season TOP 25 FIVE times since 1992.  NONE in the last 8 years.

I hate it.  I have been attending games since i was NINE.  59 years in all.  A season ticket holder for 45 consecutive years.  A graduate of the University of Arkansas.  I don't know what it's gonna take, but I doubt that I will live to see it in my life time..  WE DESERVE BETTER!!!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: al_pigcino on October 15, 2019, 07:52:58 am
How's that NFL playoff record since JJ split?  Don't bitch and run, let's hear it.
I honestly have no clue.  I don't watch NFL. 

Jimmy Johnson - 44 and 36 at Dallas.  Last year was 1993. .550% winning percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Johnson_(American_football_coach)
Cowboys since 1994 - 218 and 182 .545% winning percentage https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/index.htm
So yes, it looks like they fell off.  .05% worth of drop off.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: jkstock04 on October 15, 2019, 08:21:54 am
Why are some fans so intent not only on being satisfied with terrible football, but trying to convince other people to give up on being anything more than a doormat as well?

I can't figure out why any Razorback fan would want to maintain the status quo and keep Morris around.  He's never going to be anything better than mediocre, and he would have to improve to achieve mediocrity.  The worst thing that could happen would be for him to finally win a game and convince the administration to give him more time.  Every game this staff coaches at Arkansas is a week that is gone and can never be gotten back.

"We suck and you people need to learn to accept it!" What kind of of outlook is that?
I was kind of thinking yesterday....I believe his ceiling here is 7 wins. Bielemas ceiling was and always was going to be 8 wins. I think Morris is 7 wins if everything goes absolutely perfectly a couple or 3 years down the road.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 08:24:48 am
I was kind of thinking yesterday....I believe his ceiling here is 7 wins. Bielemas ceiling was and always was going to be 8 wins. I think Morris is 7 wins if everything goes absolutely perfectly a couple or 3 years down the road.

8 wins a year at Arkansas is phenomenal. Period.

Like Bruce James said this morning, "Great proven coaches are not coming here. The national reputation of the Arkansas Razorback program is where your career comes to die."

He also pointed out we had a big ten champion coach, rose bowl appearance coach and this program killed his career and he will never be able to come back to college football.

Like a post from months ago....."it's not you....its us."
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Kevin on October 15, 2019, 08:26:51 am
i think bret killed bret.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 08:30:31 am
i think bret killed bret.

Yes. We have sailed to success after he left. Much like SMU has.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: nolt on October 15, 2019, 08:59:30 am
The ugliest fact is how much we are paying coaches for this record.

It's not unreasonable for Hog fans to expect better for 'our' money.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Bacons Rebellion on October 15, 2019, 09:09:49 am
Nebraska and Tennessee are in as bad a shape as Arkansas - Texas was as well until Herman

I’d say all of the above are Top 20 all time if not Top 10

All of us have just been snakebit for the last decade or so

Nebraska? Nebraska has a winning record with a second year coach. They have won CONFERENCE games. A real, CONFERENCE GAME. Their coach has won CLOSE GAMES.

Tennessee? Tennessee has won a CONFERENCE GAME -- against and SEC WEST opponent.

We can dream of being as bad as Tennessee and Nebraska.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 10:01:35 am
Nebraska? Nebraska has a winning record with a second year coach. They have won CONFERENCE games. A real, CONFERENCE GAME. Their coach has won CLOSE GAMES.

Tennessee? Tennessee has won a CONFERENCE GAME -- against and SEC WEST opponent.

We can dream of being as bad as Tennessee and Nebraska.
Dead on.   Arkansas is probably the worst P5 in the nation at the moment.  The question without an answer is how to fix it at this point.  Our current situation doesn't appear to be advancing.  Some will say that they see improvement.  Well, about art they say,"I don't know anything about art but I know what I like."   I think that may be where people seeing improvement are at.  Sure, improvement because every team may make some small improvement, like Arkansas can now seem to line up properly, but not enough improvement to win and that's the bottom line.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hawginbigd1 on October 15, 2019, 10:07:56 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.
I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 10:15:14 am
I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!
It's about what have you done lately and lately we are terrible.  If you want to ride the coattails of a 1960's 3 way tie for a national title fine.  I'd prefer to do something significant in the next half century.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: mizzouman on October 15, 2019, 10:19:00 am
The ugliest fact is how much we are paying coaches for this record.

It's not unreasonable for Hog fans to expect better for 'our' money.
Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that. 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bkjbearcat on October 15, 2019, 10:20:57 am
So it's wrong to expect to be Missouri?????? Arkansas can't be Missouri???
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 10:26:56 am
Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that.

LOL!!   He's getting paid for nothing!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogwild on October 15, 2019, 10:27:11 am
I'd say 30 years worth of hiring NFL coaches makes him a decent candidate for picking a college coach for his alma mater.

Not sure about that, in the last 21 years he has hired 5 coaches combined they've won 3 playoff games. Post Jimmy and Barry he hasn't done well.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 10:30:40 am
Not sure about that, in the last 21 years he has hired 5 coaches combined they've won 3 playoff games. Post Jimmy and Barry he hasn't done well.
That's true, not a lot of success with his hires.  He got Barry and Jimmy because of their playing days.  He thought he knew more about football than JJ and so JJ left after winning a couple of super bowls.  That's not good business sense.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: jkstock04 on October 15, 2019, 11:33:03 am
8 wins a year at Arkansas is phenomenal. Period.

Like Bruce James said this morning, "Great proven coaches are not coming here. The national reputation of the Arkansas Razorback program is where your career comes to die."

He also pointed out we had a big ten champion coach, rose bowl appearance coach and this program killed his career and he will never be able to come back to college football.

Like a post from months ago....."it's not you....its us."
"Ceiling"

Anyone that thinks Bielema could avg 8 wins a year here is on hard drugs.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 01:08:13 pm
I think the last 25 years are skewing the prior 70, and definitely the prior 25. The only fact we need to face is that BP put us in a bad spot, CBB failed, and then Jerry Jones made another typical horrible hire. These are the facts!


No, the prior 70 are skewing the last 26. Almost have to look at AR football in 3 era's, but at least 2 - pre sec and since joining the sec. People keep referring to the program as one of the top 25 of all time, ehh, maybe, but most of that reputation was built prior to 1980, and definitely prior to 1990. Yes, the Hogs won a NC in football FIFTY FOUR YEARS AGO. Also, in the ensuing 53 season only 22 different teams have won or shared a NC - GA, Ga tech, Ohio St, Ou, Tn, Texas, Penn St, Clemson, Michigan, Michigan St, Bama, Aub, Colorado, Washington, USC, Florida, Fla St, Miami, ND, Neb, Pitt, BYU - 53 seasons, and only 22 teams won outright or shared a nc. Since the BCS began in 1998, only 12 teams have won the NC - Fla, FSU, Ou, Ohio St, USC, LSU, Bama, Aub, Clem, TN, Miami, TX.

Matter of fact, go all the way back to 1945 and you only pick up 5 more schools, and one of those, Army in 44 and 45, was an anomaly created by WW2. 74 years and only 27 teams have won outright or shared in a nc.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: code red on October 15, 2019, 01:15:17 pm
Arkansas has money.  Arkansas hasn't spent it.  Arkansas needs to throw some around.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogs33 on October 15, 2019, 01:15:25 pm
We have had some good years in the SEC. Unfortunately more bad than good though.

However, if your going to bring up "tradition" and overall records you cannot just use the SEC stats. You also have to use SWC stats to and we were once a powerhouse football program. So IT CAN HAPPEN.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bennyl08 on October 15, 2019, 01:16:41 pm
Arkansas has been in the SEC since 1992.  We have won or shared THREE SEC West titles.  That averages out to one Division Title every NINE years.  There have been no SEC Championships in 27 years.  We have THREE 10+ win seasons in the last 27 years. (2006, 2010, 2011.) That averages out to one every 9 years.  Finally, post season rankings look like this since 1992:  1998 #16, 1999 #17, 2006 #15, 2010 #12,  2011 #5.   That's it.  We have been ranked in the post season TOP 25 FIVE times since 1992.  NONE in the last 8 years.

I hate it.  I have been attending games since i was NINE.  59 years in all.  A season ticket holder for 45 consecutive years.  A graduate of the University of Arkansas.  I don't know what it's gonna take, but I doubt that I will live to see it in my life time..  WE DESERVE BETTER!!!

You are missing a key point methinks. You are looking strictly at "or" and neglecting the deliberately chosen "and/or". We have represented the west in the seccg 3 times since joining the SEC and have won 10 plus games 3 times, removing duplicate seasons, that 5 seasons of winning the west and/or having 10+ wins in a season since 1992. That's 5 times in 27 seasons which for all intents and purposes is darn close to once every 5 years. Not once every 9 years.

And keep in mind, that's what we have averaged, including some really bad coaches. That's "pick any random college coach in the country to come here blindly out of a hat and that's about what we can do on average." Averaging 9 wins a season with a 10+ win season or west title every 3 years or so is then a very reasonable expectation and IMO rubric for a coach doing well here.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Sivad on October 15, 2019, 01:17:54 pm
LOL!!   He's getting paid for nothing!
And sending all our money back to his home and family in Texas.
I bet Mrs. Morris has never bought a loaf of bread in Fayetteville.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pork Ranger on October 15, 2019, 01:21:35 pm
Nutt's record at Arkansas was pretty good.

He had 6 seasons where he won 8 or more games.
He had 8 seasons where he won 6 or more games.
The least he ever won here was 4 games.
He won 9 or more games in 4 of his seasons.
And get this he lost bowl games in the 3 of the 9 or more win seasons including the season that he won 10 games.

Ended his career here by beating #1
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: bennyl08 on October 15, 2019, 01:24:18 pm
I honestly have no clue.  I don't watch NFL. 

Jimmy Johnson - 44 and 36 at Dallas.  Last year was 1993. .550% winning percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Johnson_(American_football_coach)
Cowboys since 1994 - 218 and 182 .545% winning percentage https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/index.htm
So yes, it looks like they fell off.  .05% worth of drop off.

Yeah, you were specifically asked about playoff games.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: oldhog63 on October 15, 2019, 01:29:39 pm
Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that. 
Divide by zero error!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:31:22 pm
Ended his career here by beating #1

Correct. And for some reason the majority hates this man. He is top 5 winningest coach in program history. HOF HOG.

75 wins. 2 SEC championship game appearances. A couple division titles to boot. And he exits the program after taking out LSU AT DEATH VALLEY.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:31:53 pm
And sending all our money back to his home and family in Texas.
I bet Mrs. Morris has never bought a loaf of bread in Fayetteville.

Correct. She doesn't hang around in Fayetteville.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 01:33:09 pm
The tradition of the last 8 years.  I’ve seen us be competitive in the SEC.
You can be competitive and still lose or have a losing record. Just saying...
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 01:33:49 pm
Correct. She doesn't hang around in Fayetteville.
Probably because she's taking care of her son who lives in Dallas last time I checked.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:36:49 pm
Probably because she's taking care of her son who lives in Dallas last time I checked.

You act like he is a baby. The kid is almost 18.

No reason why those two shouldn't be in Fayetteville. You don't see Muss's wife hanging around in Nevada? DVH wife hanging around where they were prior. Jen "Hollywood" Bielema even did a fine job of embracing this state when she does not fit in ANYWHERE with Arkansas folks. BPs wife and kids came here....didn't hang around in HotLanta. Heck, think petrino's kids played at Shiloh.

Just a ridiculous look.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 01:40:32 pm
Correct. And for some reason the majority hates this man. He is top 5 winningest coach in program history. HOF HOG.

75 wins. 2 SEC championship game appearances. A couple division titles to boot. And he exits the program after taking out LSU AT DEATH VALLEY.

But but but he was a big ole meanie to gussie and the hometown hero qb.

Whats really sad is the same people that wanted HDN gone for that, are perfectly fine with a lying sleazeball like BP or a rape enabler like Briles.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:43:07 pm
But but but he was a big ole meanie to gussie and the hometown hero qb.

Whats really sad is the same people that wanted HDN gone for that, are perfectly fine with a lying sleazeball like BP or a rape enabler like Briles.

The man won 8+ games 6 times in the ten years he was here. 9 games twice and 10 once.

Not good enough though.


Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 01:44:03 pm
You act like he is a baby. The kid is almost 18.

No reason why those two shouldn't be in Fayetteville. You don't see Muss's wife hanging around in Nevada? DVH wife hanging around where they were prior. Jen "Hollywood" Bielema even did a fine job of embracing this state when she does not fit in ANYWHERE with Arkansas folks. BPs wife and kids came here....didn't hang around in HotLanta. Heck, think petrino's kids played at Shiloh.

Just a ridiculous look.
So 17 year old's should live by themselves and take care of themselves when they are still in high school?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 01:44:53 pm
You act like he is a baby. The kid is almost 18.

No reason why those two shouldn't be in Fayetteville. You don't see Muss's wife hanging around in Nevada? DVH wife hanging around where they were prior. Jen "Hollywood" Bielema even did a fine job of embracing this state when she does not fit in ANYWHERE with Arkansas folks. BPs wife and kids came here....didn't hang around in HotLanta. Heck, think petrino's kids played at Shiloh.

Just a ridiculous look.
So every family has to follow the same rules? Maybe the kid likes playing for Highland Park?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 01:45:12 pm
You act like he is a baby. The kid is almost 18.

No reason why those two shouldn't be in Fayetteville. You don't see Muss's wife hanging around in Nevada? DVH wife hanging around where they were prior. Jen "Hollywood" Bielema even did a fine job of embracing this state when she does not fit in ANYWHERE with Arkansas folks. BPs wife and kids came here....didn't hang around in HotLanta. Heck, think petrino's kids played at Shiloh.

Just a ridiculous look.

I can think of one. His son can stay and play HS football in Texas, or come here and play in what passes for football in HS here. How is Fayetteville High doing this year anyway? According to Max PReps, Highland Park is ranked 61st nationally and 12th in TX, meanwhile Fayetteville is ranked 386th nationally and 10th in AR. Let that sink in, the 10th ranked team in Ar is ranked 386th nationally, while the 12th team in TX is 61st.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:46:04 pm
So 17 year old's should live by themselves and take care of themselves when they are still in high school?

Hell naw.

But doesn't change the fact that its a bad look and that it causes Chad to lollygag around on Thursday afternoons and into late Friday night. You want your team focused but you're not focused yourself? Please. None of those players care about dad first business at their age. They care about winning and be lead by a winner. No reason on earth those two should be in Texas still why dad is making a living and getting drug through the mud by an unrealistic fanbase.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 01:46:36 pm
The man won 8+ games 6 times in the ten years he was here. 9 games twice and 10 once.

Not good enough though.


Very similar to how Hatfield was treated. Look at his record, and if your old enough, remember what was said about him by the fans.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 01:46:56 pm
I can think of one. His son can stay and play HS football in Texas, or come here and play in what passes for football in HS here. How is Fayetteville High doing this year anyway? According to Max PReps, Highland Park is ranked 61st nationally and 12th in TX, meanwhile Fayetteville is ranked 386th nationally and 10th in AR. Let that sink in, the 10th ranked team in Ar is ranked 386th nationally, while the 12th team in TX is 61st.
Hogsanity you and me have had plenty of debates and disagreements but I honestly don't think some of these people read what they type before they press send lol.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:47:03 pm
I can think of one. His son can stay and play HS football in Texas, or come here and play in what passes for football in HS here. How is Fayetteville High doing this year anyway? According to Max PReps, Highland Park is ranked 61st nationally and 12th in TX, meanwhile Fayetteville is ranked 386th nationally and 10th in AR. Let that sink in, the 10th ranked team in Ar is ranked 386th nationally, while the 12th team in TX is 61st.

I suppose you're right in that regard.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 01:49:04 pm
Very similar to how Hatfield was treated. Look at his record, and if your old enough, remember what was said about him by the fans.

I am not old enough to remember Ken, however, I have heard plenty of moaning and groaning by my parents in regard to how he was done. Same ole "money" idiots up there calling the shots and not doing what's right for the program.

One thing ole Jerruh has learned from ole Frankuh, no coach or player will be bigger than the owner. Frankuh was dead dog determined to keep his legacy intact no matter the cost to the football team. WE HAD LOU HOLTZ as coach at one time. LOU HOLTZ.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 01:56:16 pm
I am not old enough to remember Ken, however, I have heard plenty of moaning and groaning by my parents in regard to how he was done. Same ole "money" idiots up there calling the shots and not doing what's right for the program.

One thing ole Jerruh has learned from ole Frankuh, no coach or player will be bigger than the owner. Frankuh was dead dog determined to keep his legacy intact no matter the cost to the football team. WE HAD LOU HOLTZ as coach at one time. LOU HOLTZ.

I'm talking about the whining that was done by the fans about how Hatfield had a boring offense, how he couldn't win the big game, blah blah blah. The man won 7, 10, 9, 9, 10, 10 in his 6 seasons here. He went 55-17-1 that a win % of .750.  HE WON 3 OUT OF EVERY 4 GAMES yet many fans wanted him gone. 3 10 win seasons. 3 of the 12 10 win seasons in program history.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 02:05:10 pm
Hogsanity you and me have had plenty of debates and disagreements but I honestly don't think some of these people read what they type before they press send lol.

They only see things in terms of how they THINK they would do things, but rarely does that fit the reality of the situation.

In terms of the whole thing about Chad's family, if the game plan is not in the barn and the players eating their Friday meal and getting ready for bed by that time on Friday, then that is a much bigger issue than his being in Texas on Friday.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 15, 2019, 02:07:29 pm
They only see things in terms of how they THINK they would do things, but rarely does that fit the reality of the situation.

In terms of the whole thing about Chad's family, if the game plan is not in the barn and the players eating their Friday meal and getting ready for bed by that time on Friday, then that is a much bigger issue than his being in Texas on Friday.
Yep. Not much is done the Friday before a game because the game plan is already in place. The main thing these coaches do on Friday is recruit. And that is pretty much every school not just Arkansas. You don't have to like Coach Morris to be realistic.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 02:09:16 pm
I'm talking about the whining that was done by the fans about how Hatfield had a boring offense, how he couldn't win the big game, blah blah blah. The man won 7, 10, 9, 9, 10, 10 in his 6 seasons here. He went 55-17-1 that a win % of .750.  HE WON 3 OUT OF EVERY 4 GAMES yet many fans wanted him gone. 3 10 win seasons. 3 of the 12 10 win seasons in program history.

This fan base will never be satisfied.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Jek Tono Porkins on October 15, 2019, 02:22:00 pm
Correct. And for some reason the majority hates this man. He is top 5 winningest coach in program history. HOF HOG.

75 wins. 2 SEC championship game appearances. A couple division titles to boot. And he exits the program after taking out LSU AT DEATH VALLEY.
But the problem is that he consistently underachieved with the talent he had on hand. That same team that went to Death Valley and knocked off #1 LSU lost to 4 other SEC teams. With three starting NFL running backs in the backfield. And 4 of the 5 O-linemen either 1st or 2nd team all-SEC.
And the SEC back then was a lot less competitive than it is now. There's a reason Nutt flamed out at Ole Miss.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 02:23:13 pm
But the problem is that he consistently underachieved with the talent he had on hand. That same team that went to Death Valley and knocked off #1 LSU lost to 4 other SEC teams. With three starting NFL running backs in the backfield. And 4 of the 5 O-linemen either 1st or 2nd team SEC.

I thought that was "the nature of the SEC" though. No week is a given?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: OkieBack on October 15, 2019, 02:34:09 pm
We have had some good years in the SEC. Unfortunately more bad than good though.

However, if your going to bring up "tradition" and overall records you cannot just use the SEC stats. You also have to use SWC stats to and we were once a powerhouse football program. So IT CAN HAPPEN.

My only argument is that a 10-1 Arkansas in the SWC of the seventies and eighties is probably equal to an 8-4 Arkansas in the SEC. 

Like it or not, Houston Nutt set what I think is the standard for Arkansas football.  They guy ended up being a louse but you can't argue with his record year in and year out.  It met expectations for the most part.  But after 10 years it was only fair the fans asked "can't we do better than Nutt?"  And we did with Mr. Petrino.  Unfortunately Arkansas has a hard time staying on top without the help of a slug HC.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 02:39:21 pm
I thought that was "the nature of the SEC" though. No week is a given?

Pretty sure I saw SC, using like their 4th Qb, beat #3 GA last weekend. It happens in the SEC just about every weekend.

But the problem is that he consistently underachieved with the talent he had on hand. That same team that went to Death Valley and knocked off #1 LSU lost to 4 other SEC teams. With three starting NFL running backs in the backfield. And 4 of the 5 O-linemen either 1st or 2nd team all-SEC.
And the SEC back then was a lot less competitive than it is now. There's a reason Nutt flamed out at Ole Miss.

There is always a reason, it seems, among Hog fans to discount wins if they don't like the coach getting those wins. The SEC was no less competitive in 2006 and 2007. It is funny though, people say he underachieved with 3 nfl backs and a solid OL, yet BP, with 2 nfl drafted qb's, a nfl rb, at least one nfl ol, and 5 nfl drafted wr's/te's didn't make it to ATL, yet that is excused away because Bama/Aub/LSu were just so good. In 2010, Bama lost 3 SEC games, yet, at home, the Hogs could not beat that Bama team.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 02:41:28 pm
My only argument is that a 10-1 Arkansas in the SWC of the seventies and eighties is probably equal to an 8-4 Arkansas in the SEC. 

Like it or not, Houston Nutt set what I think is the standard for Arkansas football.  They guy ended up being a louse but you can't argue with his record year in and year out.  It met expectations for the most part.  But after 10 years it was only fair the fans asked "can't we do better than Nutt?"  And we did with Mr. Petrino.  Unfortunately Arkansas has a hard time staying on top without the help of a slug HC.

What was the highest ranked, at the time the game was played, team that a BP Hog team beat? I'll answer my own question, they beat #6 LSu in LR in 2010. They beat #10 SC in Fay in 2011 and #10 KSU in the Cotton Bowl. In Bp's 4 season, the Hogs beat teams that were ranked at the time of the game 8 times.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Sivad on October 15, 2019, 02:45:44 pm
Not much is done the Friday before a game because the game plan is already in place. The main thing these coaches do on Friday is recruit. And that is pretty much every school not just Arkansas. You don't have to like Coach Morris to be realistic.
That excuse carries no weight. Morris is not recruiting on Friday nights. He is dressed in blue and gold watching his son play.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 02:50:11 pm
That excuse carries no weight. Morris is not recruiting on Friday nights. He is dressed in blue and gold watching his son play.

Teams are only allowed so many coaches on the road recruiting at any one time, iirc, so if he was recruiting, someone else would not be. The majority of recruiting this time of year, in person, is done by the coordinators and assistants.

But I guess you're saying it is okay if he is gone on Friday nights, you just do not like where he is. At his sons game or recruiting, he is not with the team.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 02:55:34 pm
We have had some good years in the SEC. Unfortunately more bad than good though.

However, if your going to bring up "tradition" and overall records you cannot just use the SEC stats. You also have to use SWC stats to and we were once a powerhouse football program. So IT CAN HAPPEN.

Once upon a time I shot 9 of 9 from the field and 9 of 10 from the stripe and scored 27 pts in a game in school.  That happened once and I didn't ever get close to that night again. 
Arkansas won a title after the fact when the NC lost its bowl game.  They did things differently back then.  So we shared one, then we haven't been there again and in the last 25 we really have only been good a few seasons. 
We don't have a winner mentality and we don't have the will or leadership to get into position to be big time.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Piggfoot on October 15, 2019, 03:03:58 pm
We have had some good years in the SEC. Unfortunately more bad than good though.

However, if your going to bring up "tradition" and overall records you cannot just use the SEC stats. You also have to use SWC stats to and we were once a powerhouse football program. So IT CAN HAPPEN.
I beg to disagree. Our time in the SWC was under different circumstances. We played overall weaker teams than those found in the SEC and our record against those teams at that time proves that.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 03:08:29 pm
That excuse carries no weight. Morris is not recruiting on Friday nights. He is dressed in blue and gold watching his son play.

Correct.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 03:15:15 pm
I think Arkansas could be much better but the entire approach needs to change.  $$$$$$ talks and if we have the money and the boosters willing to spend some more, then we have to buy a winner.  Someone with a name and reputation that will generate excitement and sell tickets because they have done this before.  Won big in their own program, not working for someone else because that means you aren't proven as a HC.  A name that attracts players, they call you not the other way around.  Facilities are good here, the university is fine.  The town is a little country atmosphere but not so as to keep players away.  It's not big city but Bama's not in a Metropolis. 
Kidding ourselves with trying to get an experiment and let them train on the job is not a good idea.  This is the best conference in America and we need to act like we intend to win it instead of like we hope we get luck.  We have to get the best players in America, not just Arkansas and not Texas, (again tell me the last two national titles they won).  We have to go successfully compete with BAMA, GA, in the SEC for players and across the country for others.   
Until we do this we are just hoping we get lucky, maybe have a good year here or there but that's all we've been doing for a while and look where it has gotten us.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 03:22:11 pm
Teams are only allowed so many coaches on the road recruiting at any one time, iirc, so if he was recruiting, someone else would not be. The majority of recruiting this time of year, in person, is done by the coordinators and assistants.

But I guess you're saying it is okay if he is gone on Friday nights, you just do not like where he is. At his sons game or recruiting, he is not with the team.

The man is 4-14 he needs to be finding a way to win and keep his job.  He gets paid 3/5 million a year to win.  Maybe he should have considered the requirements and the pressures of being a P5 head coach in the SEC.    If he was winning lots of things can be acceptable, he ain't winning.  He is loosing at a depressing rate and not showing signs of fixing it.  Heck, he can't even decide who to play at QB.   Grow a pair and man up and coach the team and call the shots and either get it done or on the next trip to Texas for a high school game, find a high school job and stay in Texas.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 03:24:33 pm
I, then we have to buy a winner.  Someone with a name and reputation that will generate excitement and sell tickets because they have done this before.  Won big in their own program, not working for someone else because that means you aren't proven as a HC. 


Ok, give me your top 5 that fit that criteria.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 03:25:49 pm
Correct.

So you are good with him being gone on Friday night, you just do not like where he is.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 15, 2019, 03:28:35 pm
So you are good with him being gone on Friday night, you just do not like where he is.

I just think its a bad look. If the Morris family was all in, they would be all in with Arkansas. Residence, etc.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: NaturalStateReb on October 15, 2019, 03:43:12 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

I don't think anyone is demanding that Arkansas be elite, but I think they do expect them to be competitive.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: UofA🐗Alumna on October 15, 2019, 03:46:08 pm
Very similar to how Hatfield was treated. Look at his record, and if your old enough, remember what was said about him by the fans.
Idiots in little rock ran him off by throwing trash at him in wms.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hview on October 15, 2019, 04:14:20 pm
The arkansas fans will never be satisfied. You could fire this coach and start all over. I think I'd give this guy more time and see if he digs himself out of this miserable hole. Fire him and I doubt you could pay another coach to come in here. A future coach would really want to come here for other reasons than money.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 04:21:04 pm
Ok, give me your top 5 that fit that criteria.
I would be accepting of more than 5 guys.  Start with anyone in the top 25 of winningest career coaches.  Then you look at years of experience and experience at what type of schools and how many different schools.  Have they turned around a program, where are their strengths, what are their weaknesses.   Then you go looking at the next 25 and you look at the same things and center on the wins in tough situations and who have they beaten.  Experience with success, their own success is a much needed requirement.

My top choices are tough hires.   I'd float a trial ballon out to Saban, Sweeney, Lincoln Riley and see what happens.  I think I know but you have to ask. 
Then I'd look at Kirby Smart, rumbling at GA that they are not satisfied.  I'd do the same with Malzhan although I'm not a fan but he is successful and a native son.  He's doing ok this season but if he slips the boosters are ready to oust him.
Then look at successful coaches who are safe where they are and having success but may move to a better conference and for more money.
Matt Campbell who has turned around a couple of programs, is young and impressive resume.     Then Mike Leach because he has turned around several programs and coached on the big stage.  Very good overall w/L.  Mike Norvell, good W/L, younger guy, winning at Memphis in his 4th year, and Memphis is like Arkansas in that its a tough place to recruit to and tough place to maintain winning.
My dark horse is Mike Houston at East Carolina, great w/L record as a college coach across several levels where he has shown growth and ability to win, 83-26 overall,  won an FCS national title at James Madison  in 2016, 37-6 overall while at JM.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: OkieBack on October 15, 2019, 04:38:30 pm
Correct. She doesn't hang around in Fayetteville.

If Morris never moved the fam to Fayetteville...is it safe to say he never even really bought into his own hiring?  Did he think he would coach at Arkansas 3 years, get us to 6-6 and then go back home to Texas to sign a big coaching contract at Baylor or A&M or wherever? 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 06:59:45 pm
If Morris never moved the fam to Fayetteville...is it safe to say he never even really bought into his own hiring?  Did he think he would coach at Arkansas 3 years, get us to 6-6 and then go back home to Texas to sign a big coaching contract at Baylor or A&M or wherever?
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.  We have a winner.  He's a Texas boy and its pretty well known he wanted the Baylor and the A&M jobs. 

I don't know that that was a hard and fast plan but sounds plausible.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LZH on October 15, 2019, 07:03:23 pm
I honestly have no clue.  I don't watch NFL. 

Jimmy Johnson - 44 and 36 at Dallas.  Last year was 1993. .550% winning percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Johnson_(American_football_coach)
Cowboys since 1994 - 218 and 182 .545% winning percentage https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/index.htm
So yes, it looks like they fell off.  .05% worth of drop off.


At least you answered, and with a link no less.       +1
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: lumphog on October 15, 2019, 07:13:43 pm
WOW...  this is a F’d up thread

I’m old enough to remember the Glory Days

Bunch’s Dam Pansies
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 07:18:34 pm
Jimmy Johnson's record at Dallas

Team   Year   Regular season   Postseason
Won   Lost   Ties   Win %   Finish   Won   Lost   Win %   Result
DAL   1989   1   15   0   .063   5th in NFC East   —   —   —   —
DAL   1990   7   9   0   .438   4th in NFC East   —   —   —   —
DAL   1991   11   5   0   .688   2nd in NFC East   1   1   .500   Lost to Detroit Lions in NFC Divisional Game
DAL   1992   13   3   0   .813   1st in NFC East   3   0   1.000   Super Bowl XXVII champions
DAL   1993   12   4   0   .750   1st in NFC East   3   0   1.000   Super Bowl XXVIII champions

Take out year one and its really impressive.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: JJHog on October 15, 2019, 07:25:05 pm
we’re all time top 25 so shut it
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 07:55:34 pm
we’re all time top 25 so shut it
You have low expectations.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GlassofSwine on October 15, 2019, 07:59:31 pm
I don't know anyone who would consider us an elite program, but Arkansas can recruit at a Top 25 level. We should be able to play at a Top 25 level. We should not be losing to San Jose State or Kentucky playing a WR at QB. This team should be 4-2 with an outside chance at a bowl game. Instead it's doubtful we see another win.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 08:56:53 pm
I don't know anyone who would consider us an elite program, but Arkansas can recruit at a Top 25 level. We should be able to play at a Top 25 level. We should not be losing to San Jose State or Kentucky playing a WR at QB. This team should be 4-2 with an outside chance at a bowl game. Instead it's doubtful we see another win.

People just do not get it. 25th is still around 10th or worse in their own league. In 8 sec games, it is likely every year at least 6 of the 8 opponents will be teams that recruit at a higher level, ostensibly having better players. Ooc games aside, that means likely going, at best 4-4 in the sec. Tough to be top 25 with 4 losses. Throw in tough ooc games against the likes of ND, Tx, and other tougher ooc games scheduled, and winning at a top 25 level is not as easy as looking at recruiting rankings
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: TXK on October 15, 2019, 09:11:52 pm
All those winning yesteryears were while connected to Texas (for recruiting) and before a&m and missouri joined the sec. the landscape has changed and left Arkansas behind forever
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 15, 2019, 09:21:09 pm
All those winning yesteryears were while connected to Texas (for recruiting) and before a&m and missouri joined the sec. the landscape has changed and left Arkansas behind forever
Got to broaden the recruiting base if you want to compete.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GlassofSwine on October 15, 2019, 09:42:25 pm
People just do not get it. 25th is still around 10th or worse in their own league. In 8 sec games, it is likely every year at least 6 of the 8 opponents will be teams that recruit at a higher level, ostensibly having better players. Ooc games aside, that means likely going, at best 4-4 in the sec. Tough to be top 25 with 4 losses. Throw in tough ooc games against the likes of ND, Tx, and other tougher ooc games scheduled, and winning at a top 25 level is not as easy as looking at recruiting rankings


Last year there were 7 teams with 4 losses that finished in the Top 25 of the AP poll.
There were also 7 teams with 4 losses that finished in the Top 25 of the College Football playoff rankings.
In the SEC 8-12 in the recruiting rankings usually have little difference. Included in that group are normally Missouri, Ole Miss and Miss. State.
Is the SEC easy, no but...

Houston Nutt was over 50% in the SEC basically with a 4-4 SEC avg and he averaged 7.5 wins a season.
Petrino's avg in the SEC was also basically 4-4 but he averaged 8.5 wins a season overall.
Those averages easily would put Arkansas in a 20-30 ranking pretty much every year.

Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 15, 2019, 11:37:03 pm

Last year there were 7 teams with 4 losses that finished in the Top 25 of the AP poll.
There were also 7 teams with 4 losses that finished in the Top 25 of the College Football playoff rankings.
In the SEC 8-12 in the recruiting rankings usually have little difference. Included in that group are normally Missouri, Ole Miss and Miss. State.
Is the SEC easy, no but...

Houston Nutt was over 50% in the SEC basically with a 4-4 SEC avg and he averaged 7.5 wins a season.
Petrino's avg in the SEC was also basically 4-4 but he averaged 8.5 wins a season overall.
Those averages easily would put Arkansas in a 20-30 ranking pretty much every year.



But those were averages. Bp had a 5 win season. Hdn had at least 2 losing seasons. This is NEVER going to be a top 25 EVERY year program. It is going to be what its always been, over any 10 year period it will average 7.5 wins, likely including a couple 9+ win years and a couple 4-5 win years.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Philip Seaton on October 16, 2019, 01:52:16 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Always love the poor, poor "Arkansaw". Right coach can win, Petrino proved it.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: titsonboar on October 16, 2019, 02:29:01 am
Ugly fact- your post sucks
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 16, 2019, 11:34:35 am
Once upon a time I shot 9 of 9 from the field and 9 of 10 from the stripe and scored 27 pts in a game in school.  That happened once and I didn't ever get close to that night again. 
Arkansas won a title after the fact when the NC lost its bowl game.  They did things differently back then.  So we shared one, then we haven't been there again and in the last 25 we really have only been good a few seasons. 
We don't have a winner mentality and we don't have the will or leadership to get into position to be big time.

Agreed. Things are a lot different since we left the old SWC.  I recall when Arkansas would play an SEC team in a Bowl game back then.  More often than not, we came out on the short end of the score.  Looking back, we played SEC teams 16 times in Bowl games (if you include Georgia Tech, who left the SEC in 1964). We won 4, lost 11, and tied 1.  That's a 25% winning percentage.  Also, since these were bowl games most of the Arkansas teams were very good in those years.  Since 1992, we have had a few seasons that were enjoyable, but nothing really outstanding.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 11:36:41 am
Always love the poor, poor "Arkansaw". Right coach can win, Petrino proved it.

No. A special in state 2008 recruiting class and a Ryan Mallett followed by a Tyler Wilson falling in your lap proved Petrino could win.

What about Houston Nutt? His 75 wins in 10 years, 7.5 a year win average, two sec title game appearances, division titles didn't prove you can win in Arkansas?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 11:39:20 am
Got to broaden the recruiting base if you want to compete.

Tell people to hit parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan and they will look at you like you have a third eye ball.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GTOWNHOG on October 16, 2019, 11:39:40 am
Right coach can win, Petrino proved it.

I am just pointing out facts.  Actually, I AGREE with you.  The right Coach could build a powerhouse at Arkansas.  Unfortunately, we have YET to locate a Coach to fill that role.  And, Petrino was a flash in the pan. In my opinion, he would not have stayed much longer at Arkansas even without the blonde and the motorcycle.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 16, 2019, 11:40:36 am
Always love the poor, poor "Arkansaw". Right coach can win, Petrino proved it.

I love how people act like no one had ever won games here before BP. JFB, Holtz, Hatfield, HDN all won here. Winning here is not the question, winning CONSISTENTLY is.  What gives BP this mystique is that he didn't hang around long enough to see if he would have reverted to the program average or not.

Most people here did not like HDN by the end, and think he was a horrible coach. Well, fine, if a horrible coach can have a 10 win and a couple 9 win seasons, then I think that proves ANYONE can win here. Again, though, that has never been the argument from me. I just do not think it is ever going to be a " in the top 25 at the end of the season every year " type of program.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HogJamesHog on October 16, 2019, 11:53:04 am
My take is that we are all tired of being elite...elite-ly terrible.  Vandy and Kentucky were the laughing stocks of the SEC, and now we are every Sunbelt and MWC's dream opponent.  On the bright side too much more of this, and we can be the team that gets payed to play.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Grizzlyfan on October 16, 2019, 11:56:40 am
I wonder if we could get Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson as co head coaches?  so they could each have a chance for an afternoon nap.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 11:57:59 am
I wonder if we could get Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson as co head coaches?  so they could each have a chance for an afternoon nap.

Someone said on here that Jimmy would love to come back and lead this team as a consultant because of his "soft spot" in his heart for Arkansas.

LOL....Meanwhile on the golf course in Miami.........
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 16, 2019, 03:10:43 pm
That excuse carries no weight. Morris is not recruiting on Friday nights. He is dressed in blue and gold watching his son play.
He's recruiting while he's watching his son play. He one of the few coaches in the country that can do that. But carry on then...
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 16, 2019, 03:14:45 pm
If Morris never moved the fam to Fayetteville...is it safe to say he never even really bought into his own hiring?  Did he think he would coach at Arkansas 3 years, get us to 6-6 and then go back home to Texas to sign a big coaching contract at Baylor or A&M or wherever?
So you're saying that Arkansas should've been his first choice over Baylor and Texas A&M?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 16, 2019, 03:25:02 pm
So you're saying that Arkansas should've been his first choice over Baylor and Texas A&M?
It's obvious he took a job he wasn't fully invested in. If he wanted to stay in Texas he should have stayed instead of making a bad situation at Arkansas a worse situation.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 16, 2019, 03:30:12 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

Still shouldn't get blown out by north Texas at home
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 03:31:35 pm
It's obvious he took a job he wasn't fully invested in. If he wanted to stay in Texas he should have stayed instead of making a bad situation at Arkansas a worse situation.

That has always been my thought. Why leave the wife and kid in Texas if he wasn't fully invested? Seems like a safe way to fail...then go right back to texas in his home like none of this ever happened.

But but but his kid wanted to be with  his friends at Highland park. Well suck it up buttercup, daddy has a big boy job and you can play at Fayetteville, Bentonville or Shiloh Christian like one of petrino's son's did.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: #1 STUNNA on October 16, 2019, 03:43:52 pm
That has always been my thought. Why leave the wife and kid in Texas if he wasn't fully invested? Seems like a safe way to fail...then go right back to texas in his home like none of this ever happened.

But but but his kid wanted to be with  his friends at Highland park. Well suck it up buttercup, daddy has a big boy job and you can play at Fayetteville, Bentonville or Shiloh Christian like one of petrino's son's did.
We talking about little petrino that ended up at Arkansas Tech and then walked on at Arkansas or the one that didnt play any college football?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 03:45:04 pm
We talking about little petrino that ended up at Arkansas Tech and then walked on at Arkansas or the one that didnt play any college football?

Maybe, but he would get the same recruiting attention at Shiloh, Fayetteville, Bentonville, of hell even Warren if he is as good as advertised.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: #1 STUNNA on October 16, 2019, 03:50:29 pm
Maybe, but he would get the same recruiting attention at Shiloh, Fayetteville, Bentonville, of hell even Warren if he is as good as advertised.
No doubt... but who wouldnt wanna stay with their friends, play for a big time school, and try and win another state title... I know being an Army brat I never wanted to leave my life behind... and my dad probably wouldnt have made me if it would have been during my high school days..
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Pennywise on October 16, 2019, 03:54:56 pm
No doubt... but who wouldnt wanna stay with their friends, play for a big time school, and try and win another state title... I know being an Army brat I never wanted to leave my life behind... and my dad probably wouldnt have made me if it would have been during my high school days..

Fair enough, Your perspective is in tune because you did move in to warren from somewhere else. But God's country welcomed you in wonderfully. lol
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: #1 STUNNA on October 16, 2019, 04:00:50 pm
Fair enough, Your perspective is in tune because you did move in to warren from somewhere else. But God's country welcomed you in wonderfully. lol
Warren will always be gods country to me!
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 16, 2019, 04:12:31 pm
No doubt... but who wouldnt wanna stay with their friends, play for a big time school, and try and win another state title... I know being an Army brat I never wanted to leave my life behind... and my dad probably wouldnt have made me if it would have been during my high school days..
Then the solution was simple for a person who can make decisions.  Of course we have discovered that Chad Morris can't make decisions worth a darn.   The answer was, stay at SMU, keep your staff at SMU.  Wait until your son has completed his high school career and then move to your next coaching position if you would have had one coming after two more years at SMU.   
The next time Arkansas hires a coach, and lets hope it's really soon, make sure they are fully bought in and are bringing their family with them.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: #1 STUNNA on October 16, 2019, 04:16:57 pm
Then the solution was simple for a person who can make decisions.  Of course we have discovered that Chad Morris can't make decisions worth a darn.   The answer was, stay at SMU, keep your staff at SMU.  Wait until your son has completed his high school career and then move to your next coaching position if you would have had one coming after two more years at SMU.   
The next time Arkansas hires a coach, and lets hope it's really soon, make sure they are fully bought in and are bringing their family with them.
id imagine hes regretting the Arkansas job by the minute.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 16, 2019, 04:17:47 pm
It's obvious he took a job he wasn't fully invested in. If he wanted to stay in Texas he should have stayed instead of making a bad situation at Arkansas a worse situation.
So you always get your first choice and your second choice in everything you do?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 16, 2019, 04:24:09 pm
id imagine hes regretting the Arkansas job by the minute.
I sincerely hope so because Arkansas is sure regretting Chad Morris.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: #1 STUNNA on October 16, 2019, 04:25:08 pm
I sincerely hope so because Arkansas is sure regretting Chad Morris.
I truly think morris thought this was gonna be a cupcake to turn around... he didnt do his homework... and neither did Arkansas.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: IceColdMintJulep on October 16, 2019, 04:27:28 pm
This conversation is borderline erotic  :P
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: fraction_of_blue on October 16, 2019, 04:29:12 pm
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

So, the point of your post is to say that we shouldn't complain about Chad Morris,  even though he is about to hand us the two worst seasons in razorback history,  because the razorbacks have never been all that good statistically.  I am trying to find a logical reason why this isn't the dumbest post I have ever seen - but I can't do it.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 16, 2019, 06:50:46 pm
So you always get your first choice and your second choice in everything you do?
Of course not but I don't typically drop to #66. 
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Justifiable Hogicide on October 16, 2019, 06:55:26 pm
Think about Chad's $$ per SEC win.  You cannot calculate that. 
He makes John Dillinger look like a rank amateur.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Texasfan7 on October 16, 2019, 08:05:04 pm
Carry the math a little further and check the record against SWC schools.
Baylor                     35  33  3  .514
Houston                  12   6   0  .667
Rice                        35  29  2  .545
SMU                        37  31  5  .541
Texas                      22  56  0  .282
Texas A&M               41  32  3  .559
TCU                        44  22  2  .662
Texas Tech               29   8  0  .784

Total                      255 217 14 .538

Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GlassofSwine on October 16, 2019, 08:51:16 pm
But those were averages. Bp had a 5 win season. Hdn had at least 2 losing seasons. This is NEVER going to be a top 25 EVERY year program. It is going to be what its always been, over any 10 year period it will average 7.5 wins, likely including a couple 9+ win years and a couple 4-5 win years.

We are talking averages. No one expects that Arkansas will always be ranked in the Top 25 at the end of the year. However, Nutt won 8+ games 60% of the time. 8-4 is good enough to receive votes and be in the conversation. Only 2 years out of Nutt's ten did he fail to have a winning record. So let's start here, I refuse to expect less than Houston Nutt level performance. That should be the baseline, that doesn't make us elite either. That makes us the 6th to 8th ranked team in the SEC on an avg year and considering the SEC normally has 6 teams in the Top 25 I don't think that is a high expectation. I'm actually baffled that you would seem to expect less than that.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Sweet Feet on October 17, 2019, 12:47:23 am
The University of Arkansas does not have an elite football program.  Our ALL TIME record against teams that are current SEC members is 171-206.  That's a winning percentage of 45.35%.  Our football program has an all time winning record against the following SEC teams: Mississippi State (16-12), Ole Miss (36-29), South Carolina (13-10) Texas A&M (41-31) and Vanderbilt (7-3). 

Our former Coach, Bret Bielema, had a record of 11-29 in the SEC. That's a winning percentage of 27.5% for the mathematically challenged.  Bret was 0-8 in the SEC in his first year and 1-7 in the  SEC in his last year.  The three years in between were not much better with only ONE year  (5-3) with a winning record in the SEC West. His teams lost to TOLEDO and Rutgers.

My POINT is this.... Most of our fans THINK that we have a great football tradition, but when you look at the numbers, our progam has been VERY average....  So just don't complain about Coach Chad Morris too much.  He's simply carrying on the tradition.

The perception and expectation of Arkansas football is influenced by the success in the Southwest Conference. The Southwest Conference was incredibly weaker than the SEC then and now by comparison. Arkansas had the luxury of only being concerned about Texas most years and that's it. The rest were annually terrible or mediocre most years, which padded Arkansas's wins and chances at a conference title and major bowl. The addition of Conference title games in the SEC made it no easier.

The uglier facts are this: Arkansas is 22-34-4 vs the SEC before joining, 1-6-1 vs the Big 10, 3-6-1  vs the Pac 12, 0-4 vs the ACC, and 0-2 vs the Big East. They still own a 25-8 record vs the Big 8 (19-4 vs Oklahoma St) and 10-6 Big 12 record.

In the postseason, Arkansas is 15-24-3 in bowl games. In the Sugar, Orange, and Cotton Bowl (1946-89 when it was one of the 4 major new year bowls), Arkansas is a combined 4-10-1. The last major bowl win was 1977.

From 1969 to now, Arkansas has only won 11 bowl games. To put that in comparison -

-Alabama has won 11 in Nick Saban's tenure alone
-Auburn has won 11 since 1997
-LSU has won 11 since 2001
-Texas A&M won 11 since 1981
-Ole Miss has won 11 since 1992
-Miss St has won 11 since 1974
-Georgia has won 11 since 2003
-Florida has won 11 since 1998
-Tennessee has won 11 since 1992
-Missouri has won 11 since 1973

Kentucky, South Carolina, and Vanderbilt are the only ones that have done worse considering they have less than 11 bowl wins.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: EastArkHog 47 on October 17, 2019, 05:36:15 am

Carry the math a little further and check the record against SWC schools.
Baylor                     35  33  3  .514
Houston                  12   6   0  .667
Rice                        35  29  2  .545
SMU                        37  31  5  .541
Texas                      22  56  0  .282
Texas A&M               41  32  3  .559
TCU                        44  22  2  .662
Texas Tech               29   8  0  .784

Total                      255 217 14 .538


You shouldn't count A&M or Missouri bowl wins for years they were in the B12 and SEC.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: EastArkHog 47 on October 17, 2019, 05:42:38 am
Arkansas was 41-24-3 against the Aggies before they entered the SEC, Missouri held a 2-1 record over the Hogs before joining the SEC. Another note, Frank Broyles winning percentage in the SWC was .708 according to sports-reference.com
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 17, 2019, 10:00:45 am
We are talking averages. No one expects that Arkansas will always be ranked in the Top 25 at the end of the year. However, Nutt won 8+ games 60% of the time. 8-4 is good enough to receive votes and be in the conversation. Only 2 years out of Nutt's ten did he fail to have a winning record. So let's start here, I refuse to expect less than Houston Nutt level performance. That should be the baseline, that doesn't make us elite either. That makes us the 6th to 8th ranked team in the SEC on an avg year and considering the SEC normally has 6 teams in the Top 25 I don't think that is a high expectation. I'm actually baffled that you would seem to expect less than that.

I dont expect less than that, ON AVERAGE. On AVERAGE ( I look at 10 year spans ) I expect the program to average 7 wins per season.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 11:24:32 am
No. A special in state 2008 recruiting class and a Ryan Mallett followed by a Tyler Wilson falling in your lap proved Petrino could win.

What about Houston Nutt? His 75 wins in 10 years, 7.5 a year win average, two sec title game appearances, division titles didn't prove you can win in Arkansas?
I agree with you on Houston Nutt.
I have always said a 'good' coach can win at the level Nutt did at Arkansas. He was definitely a good coach, and an elite motivator.
To win at a higher level, I have always said, requires an elite coach. Good isn't good enough, to win big at Arkansas requires an outstanding coach.
In my mind, Broyles and Petrino were 'elite'.

So I will differ with you on Petrino.
The 2008 class was good, but was it really better than the DMac/Felix/Hillis/Monk group that Nutt had? Or how about the B Allen/H Henry/A Collins group Bielema had?
I don't think so.
Petrino was a genius offensive mind. His brain powered the Arkansas offense more than anything.
Tyler Wilson did not fall into his lap. He was headed to Tulsa.
He along with Chris Gragg and others are great examples of marginal recruits who looked great playing in Petrino's offense.
They weren't highly ranked in high school. Decent offers, but not great.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 17, 2019, 11:37:25 am
I agree with you on Houston Nutt.
I have always said a 'good' coach can win at the level Nutt did at Arkansas. He was definitely a good coach, and an elite motivator.
To win at a higher level, I have always said, requires an elite coach. Good isn't good enough, to win big at Arkansas requires an outstanding coach.
In my mind, Broyles and Petrino were 'elite'.

So I will differ with you on Petrino.
The 2008 class was good, but was it really better than the DMac/Felix/Hillis/Monk group that Nutt had? Or how about the B Allen/H Henry/A Collins group Bielema had?
I don't think so.
Petrino was a genius offensive mind. His brain powered the Arkansas offense more than anything.
Tyler Wilson did not fall into his lap. He was headed to Tulsa.
He along with Chris Gragg and others are great examples of marginal recruits who looked great playing in Petrino's offense.
They weren't highly ranked in high school. Decent offers, but not great.

The Nutt and BP classes you comapre both were far above average for what this state normally produces AND both fit those respective coaches styles perfectly. Nutt got a bruising talented Fb, and a absolute freak in Dmac, plus some very good linemen, and solid defenders. Bp got a big armed Qb and wr's for him to throw to.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: GlassofSwine on October 17, 2019, 01:00:24 pm
I dont expect less than that, ON AVERAGE. On AVERAGE ( I look at 10 year spans ) I expect the program to average 7 wins per season.

So you expect less than Houston Nutt who averaged 7.5 over 10 years.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 02:24:52 pm
The Nutt and BP classes you comapre both were far above average for what this state normally produces AND both fit those respective coaches styles perfectly. Nutt got a bruising talented Fb, and a absolute freak in Dmac, plus some very good linemen, and solid defenders. Bp got a big armed Qb and wr's for him to throw to.
Yea, I would agree with that. A guy like Dmac is once a lifetime maybe.
Nutt was able to win 10 games with his group. Petrino was able to win 10, then 11 the next year after Mallett left.
That, to me, points out that Petrino was a little bit better than Nutt. Not light years better, just better. He squeezed a little more out from his teams. And this is coming from a Nutt fan.

My main contention was that 'Tyler Wilson fell into BP's lap'.
He wasn't even highly recruited.
Your post was making it out like this NFL QB accidentally stumbled into Fayetteville and how lucky that was for BP.
BP made him a great college QB, and his brain drove the offense, moreso than the guys on the field.
Wilson, much to my surprise, couldn't even make the Raiders after being drafted in the 4th round.
Even more evidence that Petrino made Tyler Wilson---Tyler Wilson didn't make Bobby Petrino.

Furthermore, regardless of what the players were, they always have options and they didn't have to come here.
So, full credit to Nutt for recruiting McFadden, Jones, Hillis, Monk, etc.
Full credit to Petrino for convincing Mallett, Adams, Wright, etc.
They could have went elsewhere.

Nobody 'lucked' into anything.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 02:30:26 pm
All those winning yesteryears were while connected to Texas (for recruiting) and before a&m and missouri joined the sec. the landscape has changed and left Arkansas behind forever
It's not forever doom and second-tier status behind A&M (although they've now won 8 in a row over us). We can recover from this slump.

But, I just wanted to point out there were quite a few people here saying A&M joining the SEC was somehow going to HELP Arkansas.

Exhibit B of my long-standing observation, which is: take a common or prevailing sentiment on Hogville, then do the opposite, and you'll actually be closer to the truth.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 02:35:35 pm
I love how people act like no one had ever won games here before BP. JFB, Holtz, Hatfield, HDN all won here. Winning here is not the question, winning CONSISTENTLY is.  What gives BP this mystique is that he didn't hang around long enough to see if he would have reverted to the program average or not.

Most people here did not like HDN by the end, and think he was a horrible coach. Well, fine, if a horrible coach can have a 10 win and a couple 9 win seasons, then I think that proves ANYONE can win here. Again, though, that has never been the argument from me. I just do not think it is ever going to be a " in the top 25 at the end of the season every year " type of program.

-->Most people here did not like HDN by the end, and think he was a horrible coach. Well, fine, if a horrible coach can have a 10 win and a couple 9 win seasons, then I think that proves ANYONE can win here.  -->

This is Exhibit A to the HognitiveDissonance Collorary:

Take a common or prevailing sentiment on Hogville, do the opposite, and you'll be closer to the truth.

Exhibit A: Houston Nutt, as you pointed out.

We're now in the worst period of suckage in Arkansas football history. Yet back then every other post was about how bad Houston Nutt was, and he had the program mired in mediocrity. One would think, after 10 years of wandering in the football desert, if not outright sucking like now, there would be much re-considering of that notion, and how stupid it was. These people don't understand college football, and particularly Arkansas football. I knew even back then, that although Nutt wasn't the absolute best we could do, he was doing darn well to win at the rate he was, in this hyper-competitive league. I didn't need years of sucking to know that.

But I'm just ahead of most people, I guess (sigh)
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 02:41:56 pm
I'll now point out what I think is Exhibit C.

The prevailing sentiment right now is Chad Morris is as good as gone.

Pay no attention to the pitchfork-carrying mob. Again, do the opposite of the prevailing sentiment, as expressed on Hogville, that is.

I will not say Chad will hit a home run. But I'm fully confident making a head coaching change after two years would be a huge mistake. Furthermore, it wouldn't even be fair.

To give a guy a real, true, fair opportunity he must have 5 years. A bare minimum of 3.

I want to see what Morris's team looks like after the 4th year. The schedule is very tough next year. So I'm pointing to Year 4. All Chad players, all Chad's program.

Then we can evaluate him.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 17, 2019, 03:06:21 pm
I'll now point out what I think is Exhibit C.

The prevailing sentiment right now is Chad Morris is as good as gone.

Pay no attention to the pitchfork-carrying mob. Again, do the opposite of the prevailing sentiment, as expressed on Hogville, that is.

I will not say Chad will hit a home run. But I'm fully confident making a head coaching change after two years would be a huge mistake. Furthermore, it wouldn't even be fair.

To give a guy a real, true, fair opportunity he must have 5 years. A bare minimum of 3.

I want to see what Morris's team looks like after the 4th year. The schedule is very tough next year. So I'm pointing to Year 4. All Chad players, all Chad's program.

Then we can evaluate him.

That rationale sounds like you should have left John L in the job for 5 years.  Why not he had been a college Head Coach, he has a winning record all time and when he came to Arkanasas his precentage of wins was better than Chad's.   
Some things just seem to tell you early to switch, Chad is one of those things.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Hogwild on October 17, 2019, 04:25:24 pm
People just do not get it. 25th is still around 10th or worse in their own league.

I know you were referring to recruiting, but actually with regard to the contests, bowls,  and rankings.

14 SEC teams

The Big 6, the only teams to win the SEC in the past 50 years, will have at least 4, usually 5 ranked, throughout the season.  Tennessee has been the team on the outside looking in.
Alabama, LSU, Florida, Auburn, and Georgia have combined to win 11 National Championship this century (18 years).  Georgia is the only one of the big 6 not to win a title in the past 25 years, but did play in one.  Tennessee is the only one of the six not to lose in the National Championship game in the past 25 years.

On the opposite extreme is Vanderbilt. They have 4 bowl wins in their 129 year history, Franklin won 2 of them in consecutive years.  The current coach is in his six season, has yet to have a winning season, but he has beaten Tennessee 3 years in a row so he's been safe.

That leaves the 7 other SEC teams.  4 in the West and 3 in the East.

Each season three of those 7 schools will join the five of the teams from the first grouping, and be the top 8 in the SEC. With a bowl win any of the 8 would finish the season ranked. We were one of those teams under Nutt & BP, lately we have been far from it. 

I just don't see why we can't be on the upper half of a grouping that consists of
Kentucky, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Miss State, South Carolina, and A&M
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogbbq on October 17, 2019, 05:02:19 pm
I know you were referring to recruiting, but actually with regard to the contests, bowls,  and rankings.

14 SEC teams

The Big 6, the only teams to win the SEC in the past 50 years, will have at least 4, usually 5 ranked, throughout the season.  Tennessee has been the team on the outside looking in.
Alabama, LSU, Florida, Auburn, and Georgia have combined to win 11 National Championship this century (18 years).  Georgia is the only one of the big 6 not to win a title in the past 25 years, but did play in one.  Tennessee is the only one of the six not to lose in the National Championship game in the past 25 years.

On the opposite extreme is Vanderbilt. They have 4 bowl wins in their 129 year history, Franklin won 2 of them in consecutive years.  The current coach is in his six season, has yet to have a winning season, but he has beaten Tennessee 3 years in a row so he's been safe.

That leaves the 7 other SEC teams.  4 in the West and 3 in the East.

Each season three of those 7 schools will join the five of the teams from the first grouping, and be the top 8 in the SEC. With a bowl win any of the 8 would finish the season ranked. We were one of those teams under Nutt & BP, lately we have been far from it. 

I just don't see why we can't be on the upper half of a grouping that consists of
Kentucky, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Miss State, South Carolina, and A&M
Because we excel in making incredibly bad coaching decisions.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: redeye on October 17, 2019, 07:07:52 pm
Arkansas isn't elite now, but we were the 10th winningest program in the 30 years before we joined the SEC. Only Alabama had won more games among SEC teams during that period.

But here's the thing. Arkansas has always been an underdog. We won a lot of games because we overachieved and we're no longer doing that. We CAN win big again, but it should not be expected, because we're always David fighting Goliath. I think many of us forget that and think we're on an equal level with the many Goliaths that exist in the SEC, which has more Goliaths than any conference.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: seasonhog on October 17, 2019, 07:29:44 pm
Bobby Petrino says hello.
You can win here


Yes, we can win here, all it takes is the right coach...

We seem to run off winning coaches, those who hired the last two is where our concern should be.

If Morris goes I don't have any faith in those who will hire the next coach...

There is one coach that is available that could win, but I am about to the point where I wonder if the fans want a winning program.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 17, 2019, 10:14:23 pm
That rationale sounds like you should have left John L in the job for 5 years.  Why not he had been a college Head Coach, he has a winning record all time and when he came to Arkanasas his precentage of wins was better than Chad's.   
Some things just seem to tell you early to switch, Chad is one of those things.
John L was nothing but an interim coach thrown into a bad situation.

I suppose it's possible he could have had the job full time if he had done great things.

But since he was interim, I don't count him the same as a guy hired from the get-go to be 'the guy'.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: Youngsta71701 on October 18, 2019, 05:36:54 am
Of course not but I don't typically drop to #66.
I'm saying Baylor and Texas A&M were ahead of Arkansas in his school of choices I'm sure. When he didn't get those jobs he decided to come to Arkansas. People do that everyday in the work field and it's the same concept when it comes to coaches. You have a pecking order.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 18, 2019, 10:56:38 am

There is one coach that is available that could win,


One? One coach out of all the football coaches in America? Just one? Well, what happens if that said coach dies or does not want to coach here? Are you saying that one AND ONLY ONE coach exists that can win here?
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LZH on October 18, 2019, 11:02:14 am
That has always been my thought. Why leave the wife and kid in Texas if he wasn't fully invested? Seems like a safe way to fail...then go right back to texas in his home like none of this ever happened.

But but but his kid wanted to be with  his friends at Highland park. Well suck it up buttercup, daddy has a big boy job and you can play at Fayetteville, Bentonville or Shiloh Christian like one of petrino's son's did.

When I made the same comment, before he even coached a couple of games, folks crawled all over me like fire ants.  Maybe I'll get buzzed and bored, then go back and reveal some of these homers before/after the obvious.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: hogsanity on October 18, 2019, 11:07:30 am
When I made the same comment, before he even coached a couple of games, folks crawled all over me like fire ants.  Maybe I'll get buzzed and bored, then go back and reveal some of these homers before/after the obvious.

You guys obviously do not know how many families are doing similar things. I know two guys here in FS that took jobs in the DFW area, drove down every Sunday night, Worked til noon Fri then drove home for the weekend. Same reasons, did not want to take their kids out of school here in their jr years, so wife and kids stayed here. I know another guy who teaches at UCA, but still lives in DFW. Teaches via web most days, but is required to be on campus X # of days a semester.
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: seasonhog on October 18, 2019, 01:56:31 pm
One? One coach out of all the football coaches in America? Just one? Well, what happens if that said coach dies or does not want to coach here? Are you saying that one AND ONLY ONE coach exists that can win here?


The word is AVAILABLE ….
Title: Re: Maybe we should face some ugly facts....
Post by: LZH on October 18, 2019, 02:04:34 pm
You guys obviously do not know how many families are doing similar things. I know two guys here in FS that took jobs in the DFW area, drove down every Sunday night, Worked til noon Fri then drove home for the weekend. Same reasons, did not want to take their kids out of school here in their jr years, so wife and kids stayed here. I know another guy who teaches at UCA, but still lives in DFW. Teaches via web most days, but is required to be on campus X # of days a semester.

I didn't notice you mentioning a UofA head coach making $3.5M a year........