Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Jump Ball => Topic started by: Arazorbackguy1 on December 08, 2018, 04:42:03 pm

Title: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Arazorbackguy1 on December 08, 2018, 04:42:03 pm
Young and likely needed a reality check. Anyone at any time can come to your place and give you a game. Gotta give it your all and I think we came out a little cocky. I thought when we went to half that the team kinda came out thinking it was over and WKu would lay down. Didn稚 happen.

This team will get better from this loss and it may be the best thing that could have happened at this point.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: BannerMountainMan on December 08, 2018, 04:43:36 pm
Duh, every loss in the earl part of the season for a young team is a teaching moment, def could learn a lot.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: greenEGnHAWGS on December 08, 2018, 04:44:18 pm
Same. After watching this team the last several weeks, I致e basicalky determined that they値l lose some they should win, and win some they shouldn稚. This is one we should致e won, but hats off to WKU. They played extremely well tonight and pulled it out in the end.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: PetrinoFan on December 08, 2018, 04:44:52 pm
6-3 seton hall beat Kentucky today on their floor.. They are 7-2.  We are 6-2.  This can be a learning experience for this very young, skilled Arkansas team. We will become better from it.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: RazorNick on December 08, 2018, 04:49:10 pm
Disappointing to lose, but I知 still high on this team. As young as they are, they could have easily folded when WKU took the lead in the second half, but they didn稚, they played to the end.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Breems on December 08, 2018, 04:59:50 pm
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 08, 2018, 05:02:15 pm
The reality check should be to cut some players floor time and dont mass sub 5 minutes in when the team is rolling.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: checkraiser88 on December 08, 2018, 05:04:45 pm
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

Really? Because those issues have affected us all year? We are a few plays away from being undefeated with a team of newcomers. Go have a drink and come back tomorrow
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hog Pharm on December 08, 2018, 05:10:30 pm
6-3 seton hall beat Kentucky today on their floor.. They are 7-2.  We are 6-2.  This can be a learning experience for this very young, skilled Arkansas team. We will become better from it.

No, that game was at MSG.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 08, 2018, 05:20:11 pm
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

FT Shooting can improve, we need more set plays instead of waiting for someone to make something happen.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 08, 2018, 05:21:47 pm
, we need more set plays instead of waiting for someone to make something happen.

Ha ha ha, aint gonna happen
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: BannerMountainMan on December 08, 2018, 05:29:16 pm
This is still the same team that has looked great for most of the season and when they look bad they are still decent, don稚 understand the freaking out.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 08, 2018, 05:33:43 pm
Not a horrible loss, would have been a good win. Most people tbought 2 ooc losses, so no big deal. Didnt play well and still had a shot at the end.
Title: Re: I’m still excited about this team
Post by: Breems on December 08, 2018, 05:38:28 pm
Really? Because those issues have affected us all year? We are a few plays away from being undefeated with a team of newcomers. Go have a drink and come back tomorrow

Against good competition, yes. We're also a play away from 3 losses.

I don't need a drink. I know what this team is and wasn't phased by this loss a bit.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Letsroll1200 on December 08, 2018, 05:41:12 pm
Not a horrible loss, would have been a good win. Most people tbought 2 ooc losses, so no big deal. Didnt play well and still had a shot at the end.

What happened to you?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: pigasaurus on December 08, 2018, 07:06:43 pm
Young team got beat. Scotty and Corliss got beat by 5 guard lineup NLU (LOUISIANA MONROE ) their fr season. I don't like it but its survivable.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on December 08, 2018, 07:30:32 pm
Young is overrated in discussing college basketball these days. How old is WKU痴 big?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: jst01 on December 08, 2018, 07:35:13 pm
Young is overrated in discussing college basketball these days. How old is WKU痴 big?

Bassey made Gafford look like a freshman newb
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: k.c.hawg on December 08, 2018, 07:57:47 pm
Young is overrated in discussing college basketball these days. How old is WKU痴 big?

Bassey was a considerably higher rated prospect than Gafford. Odds are he will actually be a one and done.

Charles Bassey
Height: 6-11
Weight: 225
College: Western Kentucky
Classification: Freshman
Birthdate: 10/28/2000
Projected Draft Range: Lottery
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: k.c.hawg on December 08, 2018, 08:11:09 pm
Bassey made Gafford look like a freshman newb

Yep:

Bassy      7-11 FG      7-8 FT        9 Reb        1 Asst        5 blocks

Gafford    7-12 FG      3-3 FT        9 Reb        1 Asst        2 blocks

Utter domination. Dude abused Gafford for 4 more free throws. Now I will be the first to admit Gafford looked lethargic this game and last really but I don't know what he is going through. But you nailed thais evaluation on the head.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: checkraiser88 on December 08, 2018, 08:12:14 pm
Yep:

Bassy      7-11 FG      7-8 FT        9 Reb        1 Asst        5 blocks

Gafford    7-12 FG      3-3 FT        9 Reb        1 Asst        2 blocks

Utter domination.

rofl
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on December 08, 2018, 08:13:24 pm
Bassey was a considerably higher rated prospect than Gafford. Odds are he will actually be a one and done.

Charles Bassey
Height: 6-11
Weight: 225
College: Western Kentucky
Classification: Freshman
Birthdate: 10/28/2000
Projected Draft Range: Lottery

Thanks for illustrating the point further about youth. 
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: k.c.hawg on December 08, 2018, 08:16:30 pm
Thanks for illustrating the point further about youth. 

Right. I never saw a lottery projection on Daniel Gafford coming out of High School/Prep School. Dude was a 2x All American at the highest level.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on December 08, 2018, 08:17:38 pm
Right. I never saw a lottery projection on Daniel Gafford coming out of High School/Prep School. Dude was a 2x All American at the highest level.

I think you are trying argue something I知 not. 
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: k.c.hawg on December 08, 2018, 08:19:03 pm
I think you are trying argue something I知 not. 

I apologize, I see your point.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: WBOBO on December 08, 2018, 08:19:09 pm
I'm going to say this and I will be done.  The Hogs slipped on their
defensive intensity.  This team is good.  You don't have to have Duke
across your chest to realize we got punched in the face over and over.  We weren't
ready for it as I wasn't either.  Remember this game.  They will be in the dance.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 08, 2018, 09:05:11 pm
What happened to you?

I have just concluded people get what they deserve.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: raz1965 on December 09, 2018, 04:45:42 am
This team has lots of potential ahead, a loss like this will motivate an prepare the team for better days. We should all know this is not a top tier at this point, however there is a chance they become one. Great kids, go hogs.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Iwastherein1969 on December 09, 2018, 08:13:02 am
6-3 seton hall beat Kentucky today on their floor.. They are 7-2.  We are 6-2.  This can be a learning experience for this very young, skilled Arkansas team. We will become better from it.
Agree....the problem is that we began taking it to the cup about 10 minutes too late....everyone except Joe needs to take it to the basket if they miss 3 fg attempts behind the 3 point line...we have the athletic ability go get to the rim anytime we so choose.


ad: The last play call concerns me because the officials put .8 seconds on the clock(making 1.8 seconds in which to shoot) and I'm not sure Mike was aware of this by calling for a lob to the middle against their bigs. Hindsight is 20-20 I realize this, but we had time to get the ball to Joe or one of the other guards who had enough time to give a head fake (if needed) and get off a high percentage 15 to 18 footer. Oh well, not a big deal. WKU is good and they won't play a better game all season than they played today. We are just fine, Hog 'cage' fans. We are just fine.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: JackJohnson on December 09, 2018, 08:17:00 am
I am too.  We can稚 expect to out coach someone rick stansbury  at a powerhouse school like western Kentucky when he has had several More years to build his program then mike

Give mike time!!!!!
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Iwastherein1969 on December 09, 2018, 09:46:05 am
I am too.  We can稚 expect to out coach someone rick stansbury  at a powerhouse school like western Kentucky when he has had several More years to build his program then mike

Give mike time!!!!!
So I guess you would fire Calipari (UK lost) and Mike White (UF) as both lost at home yesterday. Have you ever played basketball ? The great equilizer is the 3 point line and WKU was wearing it out yesterday. Believe it or not Gafford had two bigs going against him yesterday and he needed help with defense in the paint. So it left one person open yesterday on every WKU possession and they had 4 guys who were making 3's yesterday, we had one. Sometimes you get beat by a good team that gets very hot. That's what happened to the Hogs yesterday. We will be just fine. I say we will be a #5 seed in the NCAA tournament. Yes, I believe in these youngsters that much.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Letsroll1200 on December 09, 2018, 09:54:20 am
This is a opportunity for this team to grow. Refocus and get back to what was working. This team has to play hard to be successful. The intensity wasn't there until they went down 8 in the second half. By that time WKU was confident and it was going to be a dog fight. WKU just had the biggest dog in the fight. Our dog decided to flop with the game on the line.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: JackJohnson on December 09, 2018, 09:56:55 am
So I guess you would fire Calipari (UK lost) and Mike White (UF) as both lost at home yesterday. Have you ever played basketball ? The great equilizer is the 3 point line and WKU was wearing it out yesterday. Believe it or not Gafford had two bigs going against him yesterday and he needed help with defense in the paint. So it left one person open yesterday on every WKU possession and they had 4 guys who were making 3's yesterday, we had one. Sometimes you get beat by a good team that gets very hot. That's what happened to the Hogs yesterday. We will be just fine. I say we will be a #5 seed in the NCAA tournament. Yes, I believe in these youngsters that much.


What has Cal and White done NCAA tournament wise compared to Mike? I.e. have they built up some equity for their fans to be forgiving?  Has mike in his 8 years?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogwood on December 09, 2018, 09:58:17 am
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

I feel the 4 has been good so far. Having zero production seems to be the rarity. Bench should improve too. They were impressive at CSU in their first road game.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Breems on December 09, 2018, 11:27:22 am
I feel the 4 has been good so far. Having zero production seems to be the rarity. Bench should improve too. They were impressive at CSU in their first road game.

Bailey has given me reason to believe that he'll be serviceable this year. Gabe hasn't. I like Chaney but figure he'll be Gafford's sub most of the time.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 11:36:57 am
Ha ha ha, aint gonna happen

We do it after timeouts all the time.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: swineology on December 09, 2018, 11:40:20 am
FT Shooting can improve, we need more set plays instead of waiting for someone to make something happen.

You haven't watched much of CMA style of play have you?


LOL
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 11:40:47 am
This is a opportunity for this team to grow. Refocus and get back to what was working. This team has to play hard to be successful. The intensity wasn't there until they went down 8 in the second half. By that time WKU was confident and it was going to be a dog fight. WKU just had the biggest dog in the fight. Our dog decided to flop with the game on the line.

The refs let it get way too physical in the paint so Daniel should have adjusted from trying to get a foul on them.  The refs didn't call fouls and swallowed their whistles most of the game so it wasn't going to change late.

Mike should have raised heck and gotten a T to draw attention to the physical play in the paint...and elsewhere.  WKU was fouling hard at many spots.   
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 11:45:57 am
You haven't watched much of CMA style of play have you?


LOL

I have but the past excuses have always been that he doesn't have his players for this style. Well, he has the players and they look good.  Now it is time to adjust and fine tune like NR would.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: FineAsSwine on December 09, 2018, 11:50:57 am
Ha ha ha, aint gonna happen

Ain't gonna happen because, as you already know, we run a motion offense, ha ha ha.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: swineology on December 09, 2018, 11:57:45 am
I have but the past excuses have always been that he doesn't have his players for this style. Well, he has the players and they look good.  Now it is time to adjust and fine tune like NR would.

I'll believe it when I see it.  I was all in when Mike was hired. I've since soured on him for the reason listed above.
I'm afraid the game has passed him by.

It would make me very happy to see him make the Tourney with this team.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 12:06:24 pm
Ain't gonna happen because, as you already know, we run a motion offense, ha ha ha.

We run set plays all the time after a timeout so why not have the PG call one when the flow breaks down?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 09, 2018, 12:37:16 pm
Ain't gonna happen because, as you already know, we run a motion offense, ha ha ha.


And as we have seen repeatedly in end game situations that motion offense got them a shot with a guard driving into the tree where he had nothing.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 12:59:59 pm
We need CMA to succeed and morph his style to meet today's rules and environment.  CMA is stubborn to a fault that he won't adjust until the team loses so many games in Jan and Feb that post season is in jeopardy.  Only then does he adjust to zone and matchup zone which has been very effective the last 3 years in his Feb adjustments.   

This year we have better defenders than we have had for a long time so CMA needs to make some changes.   Match up zone keeps Gafford under the basket, reduces bad switches from man, and we don't leave someone wide open on traps.  Match up zone has saved our seasons every february the last 3 years.

-The easiest and quickest fix would be Free throw shooting which has led to 2 losses.  The coaches need to get the player's attention. 

- The traps and switches are still a problem.  Gafford gets pulled away from the basket and Bassey was defended by a guard way too much.   The cylinder or halo rules will have the same neutering effect on traps that the hand check rule did to NR/CMA痴 core style.   We have better defenders this year with better BB IQ but the traps are a waste against good teams.

- We have 3 guys pressing which leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations or very open 3痴.  Once again this is a part of CMAs scheme that doesn稚 work very well against the good teams.  We can稚 press when we aren't scoring so our problem continues to be bad defense when we don't make a shot.  We are a thinking press and not organized in ANY way if we miss and they get the rebound.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: raz1965 on December 09, 2018, 02:48:05 pm
Unrealistic fans think there team should never lose, guess what for ever win sombody takes a loss, Mike  runs a stellar program, great guy, has great kids an is a winner.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: jst01 on December 09, 2018, 02:54:25 pm
Unrealistic fans think there team should never lose, guess what for ever win sombody takes a loss, Mike  runs a stellar program, great guy, has great kids an is a winner.

What has he won at AR?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 03:34:40 pm
Harris is the surprise of this team for me because he is making everyone better and it shows the impact from too few point guards over the last few years.

Mason is the next biggest surprise on this team for me.

The freshman act more mature than I expected.

Bailey is better than I expected.

We will take another step up if:
-Gabe gets more consistent and better in the half court game.  Gabe is more comfortable in the open court game so he falls off in the half court.  His decision making is not good in half court and he kind of panics on passes.
-Chaney continues to play more to rest Gafford, work on his all around game for when he replaces GD and stay consistent.   Chaney needs to keep doing what he is doing, but his most important job is to let Gafford sit. 
-Sills is coming into his own as an all-around guard that play point, defend, shoot, drive to the basket.
-Embery Simpson seems to be coming into his own as well as Sills.
-Phillips could be the Wild card to improvement because he has that athletic 6-7 versatility.
-Henderson needs to eat a cheeseburger and fries and hit the weights.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: sadhogfan on December 09, 2018, 04:14:06 pm
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

This seems foolish. Prior to this game, Bailey was averaging 10.9 ppg, which is decent production from the 4. We have had good games off the bench from Chaney, Embery-Simpson, and Sills, and it seems likely to be that this will continue in spurts.

The FT shooting is problematic. Other than that, your post seemsoff.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Razorod on December 09, 2018, 04:33:02 pm
The next four games provide a good opportunity to have extended practice time (couple of one-week gaps between games) and blow-out opportunities to get the second unit some playing time. Don't think many beyond the top nine got in much this past week.

It would be nice to see Phillips get some extended minutes and gain some confidence. Gabe needs to figure out his role and play within himself. He can help, but "a man's gotta know his limitations."

If the rotation stays as is or if Anderson has to shrink it even more, some of our key players are going to wear down during the SEC portion of the schedule.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hawginTN on December 09, 2018, 05:07:59 pm
This is still going to be a good team. It's maybe the best team talent wise we've seen on the hill in a while.  Hopefully it'll be a great season. It's already surpassed what I thought we'd be. Considering the roster turnover.

MA has done a good job assembling this team.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 09, 2018, 05:09:53 pm
The next four games provide a good opportunity to have extended practice time (couple of one-week gaps between games) and blow-out opportunities to get the second unit some playing time. Don't think many beyond the top nine got in much this past week.

It would be nice to see Phillips get some extended minutes and gain some confidence. Gabe needs to figure out his role and play within himself. He can help, but "a man's gotta know his limitations."

If the rotation stays as is or if Anderson has to shrink it even more, some of our key players are going to wear down during the SEC portion of the schedule.

We will learn a lot before our first SEC game after this jolting loss to WKU.  We were getting too sure of ourselves....all of us
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: alohawg on December 10, 2018, 01:26:19 am
These young guys raised the bar for all of our expectations, which is partly why yesterday was so frustrating. Time for another run of games.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: EasyRider81 on December 10, 2018, 05:57:06 am
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

Do you count Bailey as a 4?

He had a bad night but he's been good most of the year. Cheney is young but he looks like the first true 4 we've had in years.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Smithian on December 10, 2018, 07:29:06 am
We need CMA to succeed and morph his style to meet today's rules and environment.  CMA is stubborn to a fault that he won't adjust until the team loses so many games in Jan and Feb that post season is in jeopardy.  Only then does he adjust to zone and matchup zone which has been very effective the last 3 years in his Feb adjustments.   

This year we have better defenders than we have had for a long time so CMA needs to make some changes.   Match up zone keeps Gafford under the basket, reduces bad switches from man, and we don't leave someone wide open on traps.  Match up zone has saved our seasons every february the last 3 years.

-The easiest and quickest fix would be Free throw shooting which has led to 2 losses.  The coaches need to get the player's attention. 

- The traps and switches are still a problem.  Gafford gets pulled away from the basket and Bassey was defended by a guard way too much.   The cylinder or halo rules will have the same neutering effect on traps that the hand check rule did to NR/CMA痴 core style.   We have better defenders this year with better BB IQ but the traps are a waste against good teams.

- We have 3 guys pressing which leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations or very open 3痴.  Once again this is a part of CMAs scheme that doesn稚 work very well against the good teams.  We can稚 press when we aren't scoring so our problem continues to be bad defense when we don't make a shot.  We are a thinking press and not organized in ANY way if we miss and they get the rebound.

I don't necessarily agree with everything you've posted in this thread, but it is well reasoned. You should post more.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 10, 2018, 07:59:05 am
I don't necessarily agree with everything you've posted in this thread, but it is well reasoned. You should post more.

I have my moments of clarity ahahahha
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 10, 2018, 08:44:30 am
What happened to you?

Dont get me wrong, I still think Mike is average, and that he is here for life. And I cant not understand why people are happy with his 8 7 + seasons here.

BUT, as for THIS team at THIS point in THIS season, they are playing better than most expected. I really like Sills and Chaney. Joe is the 1st real sniper we've had in years, and Gafford is a 1st round pick.

We all thought this would be a 2 ( maybe 3 ) loss team in OOC play. Many figured one of those would be Indiana, and many did not pay attention to the matchup problems WKU would cause. Hogs should have won though since WKy was missing a starting guard and had another ejected early in the game, but they just did not quite get there.

For now, at least, I am going to try to look at this season in the context of this season only.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Iwastherein1969 on December 15, 2018, 09:07:07 am
What has Cal and White done NCAA tournament wise compared to Mike? I.e. have they built up some equity for their fans to be forgiving?  Has mike in his 8 years?
even more reason to ask why and how UF/UK could lose home games .can Calipari or White say they have had a career in coaching and never had a losing season ? I don't think so
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Iwastherein1969 on December 15, 2018, 09:15:45 am
FT Shooting can improve, we need more set plays instead of waiting for someone to make something happen.
Look, this loss was simple, WKU played the vast majority of the game in zone. To beat a zone one must have multiple players hitting 3's and drive and kick, or take it all the way to the basket. We figured this out a little late. WKU is the BEST team we've played thus far with their freshman "BIG". That guy is one and done and if he isn't Stansbury is lying to him. Back to why the Hogs lost. The zone took a lot of what Gifford does best away, but what it did do was leave open shots all over the court a step behind the 3-point line. We had only one guy hitting shots behind the line which was very lucky for WKU as we normally have two, three and sometimes four knocking down 3 pointers. We have just a normal night of shooting 3's and WKU loses by 15 to 20. It was just WKU's night and we should move on well convinced in the fact that we were much the best as teams go.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 15, 2018, 12:03:45 pm
Look, this loss was simple, WKU played the vast majority of the game in zone. To beat a zone one must have multiple players hitting 3's and drive and kick, or take it all the way to the basket. We figured this out a little late. WKU is the BEST team we've played thus far with their freshman "BIG". That guy is one and done and if he isn't Stansbury is lying to him. Back to why the Hogs lost. The zone took a lot of what Gifford does best away, but what it did do was leave open shots all over the court a step behind the 3-point line. We had only one guy hitting shots behind the line which was very lucky for WKU as we normally have two, three and sometimes four knocking down 3 pointers. We have just a normal night of shooting 3's and WKU loses by 15 to 20. It was just WKU's night and we should move on well convinced in the fact that we were much the best as teams go.

I agree with you about the WKU defense but they also switched defenses on Gafford a lot and even Stansberry admitted to it.  I disagree that it was just a bad shooting night for us and the impact on Gafford.   Our defense is better this year but this young group of players makes mistakes.  Add those mistakes to Defensive scheme weaknesses and it is a powerful impact.   WKU slowed the game down into a half court battle.  Teams are going to always push the game into a half court while we are pushing to make it full court.  Sometimes the game becomes a half court game.  We suffer when the game becomes a half court game because it usually means we are not making shots and can't set up our press.    Our motion offense is not good in a half court contest with low BB IQ players (this year we are too young).   CMA's pressing scheme does not adjust for times when we are missing shots-We are thinking press and not organized in ANY way if we miss and they get the rebound.  We need some kind of back up plan defense or alignment....OR...we don't have to press so much!   The press is effective  against good teams if we surprise them with it in segments.  We could use multiple defenses to keep them off guard.  Match up zone, man, then some trapping man in small doses.  Our defense and offense affect each other a LOT.

When we do make our shots and press, we have 3 guys pressing which leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations or very open 3痴.  Once again this is a part of CMAs scheme that doesn稚 work very well against the good teams with good guards.  WKU abused us in the 2nd half because we continue to press with no back up plan.   

We can稚 press when we aren't scoring so we have weak defense when we don't make a shot.  When we do press, we also have defensive break downs on the press against good teams which allows them to get easy 3s or 3 on 2 fastbreaks.   Less pressing, more match up zone, less trapping man and improve FT shooting would make a major difference I think.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: RealHog on December 15, 2018, 02:17:14 pm
Bad loss, CMA had that full court press way too long in the second half even after we were giving up way too many easy looks with with it and WKU didn稚 look great in a real halfcourt offense.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: LAHogfan123 on December 15, 2018, 02:23:54 pm
Really? Because those issues have affected us all year? We are a few plays away from being undefeated with a team of newcomers. Go have a drink and come back tomorrow

Breems was right, you are wrong.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: ishankem on December 15, 2018, 04:56:13 pm
Let's see, Barnes has been at tenner since 2015, and they are ranked #3 in country!  Mike is in his 6th year and hasn't sniffed top 20 if my memory is correct.  Hey give him 10 years, he might get it done
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hobhog on December 15, 2018, 09:04:53 pm
Let's see, Barnes has been at tenner since 2015, and they are ranked #3 in country!  Mike is in his 6th year and hasn't sniffed top 20 if my memory is correct.  Hey give him 10 years, he might get it done

8th year
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: KateHog on December 15, 2018, 09:07:41 pm
Why are you guys so down on Mike?













Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Iwastherein1969 on December 15, 2018, 11:17:34 pm
I agree with you about the WKU defense but they also switched defenses on Gafford a lot and even Stansberry admitted to it.  I disagree that it was just a bad shooting night for us and the impact on Gafford.   Our defense is better this year but this young group of players makes mistakes.  Add those mistakes to Defensive scheme weaknesses and it is a powerful impact.   WKU slowed the game down into a half court battle.  Teams are going to always push the game into a half court while we are pushing to make it full court.  Sometimes the game becomes a half court game.  We suffer when the game becomes a half court game because it usually means we are not making shots and can't set up our press.    Our motion offense is not good in a half court contest with low BB IQ players (this year we are too young).   CMA's pressing scheme does not adjust for times when we are missing shots-We are thinking press and not organized in ANY way if we miss and they get the rebound.  We need some kind of back up plan defense or alignment....OR...we don't have to press so much!   The press is effective  against good teams if we surprise them with it in segments.  We could use multiple defenses to keep them off guard.  Match up zone, man, then some trapping man in small doses.  Our defense and offense affect each other a LOT.

When we do make our shots and press, we have 3 guys pressing which leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations or very open 3痴.  Once again this is a part of CMAs scheme that doesn稚 work very well against the good teams with good guards.  WKU abused us in the 2nd half because we continue to press with no back up plan.   

We can稚 press when we aren't scoring so we have weak defense when we don't make a shot.  When we do press, we also have defensive break downs on the press against good teams which allows them to get easy 3s or 3 on 2 fastbreaks.   Less pressing, more match up zone, less trapping man and improve FT shooting would make a major difference I think.
Did you actually say that its not good when we are making our shots because "leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations" ?  Sorry but that has to be if not, one of the least well thought out statements ever on Hogville. If we are making our shots, it means they have to make their shots to keep up. My God, man that's Razorback basketball.  We have always given up shots, especially in our hay day or May Day. The point is to run their legs out from under them and in the last 8 minutes, and trust me if you've ever played hoops, when you have run most of the game without a bench, your legs become like an inferno. And that jump shot usually is short rimmed. Anyway, I've never heard of the strategy of the "missing shots just so we can get back on defense" game plan.



ad: In other words you want us to play like Gonzaga with smaller, more athletic players. That was tried during the Pelphrey era. Didn't work so well.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 16, 2018, 09:40:44 am
Did you actually say that its not good when we are making our shots because "leaves us susceptible to 3 on 2 situations" ?  Sorry but that has to be if not, one of the least well thought out statements ever on Hogville. If we are making our shots, it means they have to make their shots to keep up. My God, man that's Razorback basketball.  We have always given up shots, especially in our hay day or May Day. The point is to run their legs out from under them and in the last 8 minutes, and trust me if you've ever played hoops, when you have run most of the game without a bench, your legs become like an inferno. And that jump shot usually is short rimmed. Anyway, I've never heard of the strategy of the "missing shots just so we can get back on defense" game plan.



ad: In other words you want us to play like Gonzaga with smaller, more athletic players. That was tried during the Pelphrey era. Didn't work so well.

I never said it was good to miss shots.  IF you know as much basketball as you say then you know what I was saying.  What I said was the we can't press if we are missing our shots.  If we can't press then it allows the other team to slow down and make it a half court game.   You mention that the concerns you tried to twist are "Razorback Basketball" but once again you are blindly clinging to an obsolete style.  All you can do is twist one concept out of my post.

I loved this style in the 90's but the rules have changed with the cylinder/halo rule that will have the same neutering effect on traps that the hand check rule did to NR/CMA痴 core style.   We have better defenders this year with better BB IQ but the total reliance on press and traps are a waste against good teams with good point guards and passers.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: jst01 on December 16, 2018, 01:38:43 pm
We池e going to lose some games we shouldn稚, and fans are going to be upset. Some of those will call for Mike to get fired, as they have done most years since he was hired.

We池e going to win some games we shouldn稚, and our fans will begin to believe we池e witnessing a 1990痴 resurgence.

When the dust settles in March, we will have won 22 or so wins, give or take a couple, and will likely be in the postseason. Three of the past four years, that has been the NCAA Tournament. Mike will have represented our program, University, and State well. His players will have too, but if one does slip up he will handle it. There is no reason to believe that will not continue.

For that reason, bolstered by his previous ties to our program, Mike will be our head coach until he chooses not to be. Eight years in, it is his program.

In summation, the powers of the UofA and most fans are perfectly content with being 電ecent.  About how other fans probably think of AR.

Hey SEC random fan, How has AR hoops been in the last decade?

Oh they致e been decent.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 16, 2018, 01:58:10 pm
We池e going to lose some games we shouldn稚, and fans are going to be upset. Some of those will call for Mike to get fired, as they have done most years since he was hired.

We池e going to win some games we shouldn稚, and our fans will begin to believe we池e witnessing a 1990痴 resurgence.

When the dust settles in March, we will have 22 or so wins, give or take a couple, and will likely be in the postseason. Three of the past four years, that has been the NCAA Tournament. Mike will have represented our program, University, and State well. His players will have too, but if one does slip up he will handle it. There is no reason to believe that will not continue.

For that reason, bolstered by his previous ties to our program, Mike will be our head coach until he chooses not to be. Eight years in, it is his program.

Mike can put the guys in a position to succeed which has been proven for 3 years in a row when he changes to match up zone to save each season. I want Mike to make some changes so we can stay instead of the disruption of a coaching change.   Frustration has been building in the fan base for 8 years. I would like to see Mike put his stubborn ways aside and adapt, so that we can improve with Mike.   Mike has taken until February for the last 3 seasons to recognize his team's defensive deficiencies that stem from his schemes.   It takes him most of the SEC conf season to get away from the stress and fatigue of pressing, man with traps, switches, etc.  I would not be so upset if he didn't repeat these same problems for the last 3 years.  Multiple seasons have dipped until he decided to use zone which saved the players bodies and improved play (the perimeter defense is better, rebounders are around the basket, etc.).   

Mike has a new boss with no emotional or nostalgic ties to Mike. The program HY just left was a buzzer beater away from the Sweet 16 and dominated Arkansas last season which was his first exposure to Mike.   HY played basketball in college so it makes sense he may feel more connected to the basketball program in some ways than to the football program. He is more knowledgeable regarding basketball than football obviously.   We just fired an AD and a football coach after 5 years for not meeting expectations, so the basketball coach of 7 years should be under the microscope...for change, not termination.

It is stunning for me to see apathetic people in my age group that grew up watching our prestige develop during the late 70s, 80's and 90's.   I want Mike to make changes so he can stay AND we can win again. 

Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: checkraiser88 on December 16, 2018, 02:05:44 pm
In summation, the powers of the UofA and most fans are perfectly content with being 電ecent.  About how other fans probably think of AR.

Hey SEC random fan, How has AR hoops been in the last decade?

Oh they致e been decent.

Decent I値l take, especially after the previous 2 coaches.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: ShadowHawg on December 16, 2018, 02:43:14 pm
Decent I値l take, especially after the previous 2 coaches.

Right. You don't go from decent to amazing in a flash. The people that try to point out programs that go from trash to flash fail to realize is that they don't sustain the flash.

MA is building a sustainable program here.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Smithian on December 16, 2018, 02:45:41 pm
Decent I値l take, especially after the previous 2 coaches.
This isn't the Sun Belt, we do not need to settle for decent. You don't invest millions into a coach and facilities if "decent" is fine.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Smithian on December 16, 2018, 02:47:11 pm
Right. You don't go from decent to amazing in a flash. The people that try to point out programs that go from trash to flash fail to realize is that they don't sustain the flash.

MA is building a sustainable program here.
Building? It is year 8.

Lots to be pleased about this season, but let's not act like this is a program that just needs some more time.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: checkraiser88 on December 16, 2018, 03:02:42 pm
This isn't the Sun Belt, we do not need to settle for decent. You don't invest millions into a coach and facilities if "decent" is fine.

I値l take a coach who puts us in the tournament just about every year. It痴 too risky to go for another Pel, I知 sorry
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Smithian on December 16, 2018, 04:08:46 pm
I値l take a coach who puts us in the tournament just about every year. It痴 too risky to go for another Pel, I知 sorry
That is a loser's mentality when the SEC as a whole is healthier than it's been for a while and even LSU and Georgia are making strong hires on paper. Texas A&M, while down this year, has two Sweet 16 appearances in the past three years.

I like Anderson and believe this season has postseason hopes, but eventually the program has to make progress. If we're sitting around in early 2020 and looking at back to back NIT appearances and only 3 NCAA appearances in 9 years, then I can't see a good argument to stay the course.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: zenchow on December 16, 2018, 04:21:42 pm
Mike can put the guys in a position to succeed which has been proven for 3 years in a row when he changes to match up zone to save each season. I want Mike to make some changes so we can stay instead of the disruption of a coaching change.   Frustration has been building in the fan base for 8 years. I would like to see Mike put his stubborn ways aside and adapt, so that we can improve with Mike.   Mike has taken until February for the last 3 seasons to recognize his team's defensive deficiencies that stem from his schemes.   It takes him most of the SEC conf season to get away from the stress and fatigue of pressing, man with traps, switches, etc.  I would not be so upset if he didn't repeat these same problems for the last 3 years.  Multiple seasons have dipped until he decided to use zone which saved the players bodies and improved play (the perimeter defense is better, rebounders are around the basket, etc.).   

Mike has a new boss with no emotional or nostalgic ties to Mike. The program HY just left was a buzzer beater away from the Sweet 16 and dominated Arkansas last season which was his first exposure to Mike.   HY played basketball in college so it makes sense he may feel more connected to the basketball program in some ways than to the football program. He is more knowledgeable regarding basketball than football obviously.   We just fired an AD and a football coach after 5 years for not meeting expectations, so the basketball coach of 7 years should be under the microscope...for change, not termination.

It is stunning for me to see apathetic people in my age group that grew up watching our prestige develop during the late 70s, 80's and 90's.   I want Mike to make changes so he can stay AND we can win again. 



we played zone a lot last nite, as we have all season....
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 16, 2018, 04:44:35 pm
we played zone a lot last nite, as we have all season....

I wasn't at the game last night.  As for the rest of the season I have seen VERY little zone.  Please define "a Lot"
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: ShadowHawg on December 16, 2018, 06:56:15 pm
Building? It is year 8.

Lots to be pleased about this season, but let's not act like this is a program that just needs some more time.

Not sure how else you can recognize stability except over time.

Yes building. Winning CONSISTENTLY is how you build and it can only be seen over time.

Building recruiting ties is about a for year process. Recruiting has been consistently better since that time

Eddie Sutton was here 10 years. Nolan had to build the program beyond what Sutton had to take the program to another level.

If you aren't growing as a program then you will shrink back. We are winning now it has to be sustained to grow further.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 16, 2018, 07:18:44 pm
Not sure how else you can recognize stability except over time.

Yes building. Winning CONSISTENTLY is how you build and it can only be seen over time.

Building recruiting ties is about a for year process. Recruiting has been consistently better since that time

Eddie Sutton was here 10 years. Nolan had to build the program beyond what Sutton had to take the program to another level.

If you aren't growing as a program then you will shrink back. We are winning now it has to be sustained to grow further.

Did it take either Eddie or Nolan 8 years to have much more successful seasons than Mike has had so far?
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Smithian on December 16, 2018, 07:34:07 pm
Not sure how else you can recognize stability except over time.

Yes building. Winning CONSISTENTLY is how you build and it can only be seen over time.

Building recruiting ties is about a for year process. Recruiting has been consistently better since that time

Eddie Sutton was here 10 years. Nolan had to build the program beyond what Sutton had to take the program to another level.

If you aren't growing as a program then you will shrink back. We are winning now it has to be sustained to grow further.
Both Sutton and Nolan made Final Fours in their first five years.

In Anderson's first 7 years, he made three NCAA Tourneys, one NIT. I think this year an NIT is likely, maybe NCAA.

Can you think of examples of coaches who after about 6 or 7 years who flipped a switch and took their programs to the next level? I've been doing some research and Kevin Willard right now is only coach I can find who after a few years the program went next level. Maybe Tim Miles, but he also has a new arena which changes things. Usually by year 8, your program is what it is.

An NCAA tournament this year is a big lift, and an NIT appearance should be applauded. I will enjoy the ride a whole lot if they make either. That is reason to enjoy this season and be excited.

But next year my expectations will be that it's year 9 and it is probably time to make a run at the second weekend.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: razorback1829 on December 16, 2018, 08:49:12 pm
That is a loser's mentality when the SEC as a whole is healthier than it's been for a while and even LSU and Georgia are making strong hires on paper. Texas A&M, while down this year, has two Sweet 16 appearances in the past three years.

I like Anderson and believe this season has postseason hopes, but eventually the program has to make progress. If we're sitting around in early 2020 and looking at back to back NIT appearances and only 3 NCAA appearances in 9 years, then I can't see a good argument to stay the course.

徹n paper, which most don稚 pan out. The fact we池e third in wins and are at this point a consistent team in the tourney, it痴 absurd to start thinking about greener pastures. We got a hell of coach here. We致e seen where those greener pastures head. I have faith MA will get us over the hump, and this is the group it値l be with. We have all these guys for 3-4 years as well. CMA won稚 be going anywhere soon.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: MakingPlays on December 16, 2018, 10:19:52 pm
Both Sutton and Nolan made Final Fours in their first five years.

In Anderson's first 7 years, he made three NCAA Tourneys, one NIT. I think this year an NIT is likely, maybe NCAA.

Can you think of examples of coaches who after about 6 or 7 years who flipped a switch and took their programs to the next level? I've been doing some research and Kevin Willard right now is only coach I can find who after a few years the program went next level. Maybe Tim Miles, but he also has a new arena which changes things. Usually by year 8, your program is what it is.

An NCAA tournament this year is a big lift, and an NIT appearance should be applauded. I will enjoy the ride a whole lot if they make either. That is reason to enjoy this season and be excited.

But next year my expectations will be that it's year 9 and it is probably time to make a run at the second weekend.

Leonard Hamilton comes to mind at FSU to me.  Took him 9 years to make the sweet 16 at FSU.  Just took them to the elite 8 last year, and off to an 8-1 start this year so far.

There's not a set number of years it takes to get a program where people think it needs to be, each school and each situation is going to be unique.  There's situations where after 2 years people know it's not going to work, and there's situations where a school may not be where it wants to be, but they see things trending in the right direction and want to give it more time with a coach. 

These next couple of years will tell the tale of how CMA's tenure at Arkansas will end up.  A lot of people think he has a free pass forever, I've been around long enough to know that's not the case.  If fans lose interest and the money is not coming in like it use to, he'll be let go just like any other coach.  I think right now he has an exciting young core so most fans are satisfied and willing to give a pass this year, however next year, guys being young will not be an excuse, he'll be approaching 10 years following next year, he's going to have to have something to show.  It would need to be a second weekend in the tournament by then or that 2020 class better be top 10 worthy and he's returning almost all his top guys and predicted to be highly ranked going into that season.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: razorback1829 on December 16, 2018, 11:07:06 pm
Leonard Hamilton comes to mind at FSU to me.  Took him 9 years to make the sweet 16 at FSU.  Just took them to the elite 8 last year, and off to an 8-1 start this year so far.

There's not a set number of years it takes to get a program where people think it needs to be, each school and each situation is going to be unique.  There's situations where after 2 years people know it's not going to work, and there's situations where a school may not be where it wants to be, but they see things trending in the right direction and want to give it more time with a coach. 

These next couple of years will tell the tale of how CMA's tenure at Arkansas will end up.  A lot of people think he has a free pass forever, I've been around long enough to know that's not the case.  If fans lose interest and the money is not coming in like it use to, he'll be let go just like any other coach.  I think right now he has an exciting young core so most fans are satisfied and willing to give a pass this year, however next year, guys being young will not be an excuse, he'll be approaching 10 years following next year, he's going to have to have something to show.  It would need to be a second weekend in the tournament by then or that 2020 class better be top 10 worthy and he's returning almost all his top guys and predicted to be highly ranked going into that season.

Funny thing is, he won稚 even need the 菟ass this year  ;)
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: MakingPlays on December 16, 2018, 11:38:10 pm
Funny thing is, he won稚 even need the 菟ass this year  ;)

Hope so, I think it's a tournament team, but just making the tournament isn't enough.  It's hard to make a prediction outside of that because the NCAA tournament is just so random.  For all we know this team could make the tournament, and get a really good draw and make it to the second weekend without necessarily being the best team CMA has had.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Breems on December 19, 2018, 10:08:40 pm
Didn't look like mental issues to me.

Bad shooting, terrible FT shooting, 0 bench production outside Sills, and 0 production at the 4.

Other than shooting better from 3, I don't see those other issues going away anytime soon.

Terrible shooting, 0 production from the 4 (2 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists combined), and 0 bench production (8 points, 0 assists, 4 rebounds combined). Gafford handled again in the paint.

I see a lot of the "lose games we shouldn't." When do we get the "win games we shouldn't?" LoL.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: Hogmatic on December 20, 2018, 11:47:17 am
Leonard Hamilton comes to mind at FSU to me.  Took him 9 years to make the sweet 16 at FSU.  Just took them to the elite 8 last year, and off to an 8-1 start this year so far.

There's not a set number of years it takes to get a program where people think it needs to be, each school and each situation is going to be unique.  There's situations where after 2 years people know it's not going to work, and there's situations where a school may not be where it wants to be, but they see things trending in the right direction and want to give it more time with a coach. 

These next couple of years will tell the tale of how CMA's tenure at Arkansas will end up.  A lot of people think he has a free pass forever, I've been around long enough to know that's not the case.  If fans lose interest and the money is not coming in like it use to, he'll be let go just like any other coach.  I think right now he has an exciting young core so most fans are satisfied and willing to give a pass this year, however next year, guys being young will not be an excuse, he'll be approaching 10 years following next year, he's going to have to have something to show.  It would need to be a second weekend in the tournament by then or that 2020 class better be top 10 worthy and he's returning almost all his top guys and predicted to be highly ranked going into that season.

As I have said above the fans have had enough for much longer than some Mike lovers want to admit.  It is time for Mike to make some changes period.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: HogBreath on December 20, 2018, 01:02:20 pm
I値l take a coach who puts us in the tournament just about every year. It痴 too risky to go for another Pel, I知 sorry
Please...do not be running down Pel to Smithian for crying out loud.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: hogsanity on December 20, 2018, 01:47:20 pm
I値l take a coach who puts us in the tournament just about every year. It痴 too risky to go for another Pel, I知 sorry

When we get one of those please tell me, cause the one we have is 3 out of 7, not even close to just about every year.
Title: Re: I知 still excited about this team
Post by: porkinsons disease on December 20, 2018, 02:12:38 pm
When we get one of those please tell me, cause the one we have is 3 out of 7, not even close to just about every year.
That's how far the goal posts have been moved. 3-7 is more often than not to some.