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Author Topic: Any concern that two of  (Read 6751 times)

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HogJowler

Any concern that two of
« on: February 06, 2019, 11:01:14 am »

our top recruits are both coming off of ACL injuries. (Catalon and Burks) Any updates on their current rehab status?

Can anyone who has experience with this type of injury give any prognosis on full recovery (generally speaking)?

Can we expect them to be impact players as Freshmen?

Is re-injury a frequent problem?
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2019, 11:12:49 am »

Burks rehab is going great from everything i have heard. And yes he will see the field the day he is cleared to play in some kind of capacity. Too dangerous as a football player not to have on the field.

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RaisinHog

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2019, 11:36:10 am »

In an interview with Jeremy muck burkes says he is 85% and will be 100% before he gets too Arkansas
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 11:42:52 am »

In an interview with Jeremy muck burkes says he is 85% and will be 100% before he gets too Arkansas
Exciting news on a day full of excitement. If this is the case watch out!!!! This kid can gooooooo!!!!!

hawginbigd1

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 11:45:05 am »

In an interview with Jeremy muck burkes says he is 85% and will be 100% before he gets too Arkansas
Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.
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jgphillips3

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 11:47:57 am »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.

Some of that depends on the severity of the injury.  I agree that I don’t know if he will be 100% day one but as the season progresses he may be.
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WOOPIGDOOIE

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 11:52:05 am »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.
Adrian Peterson, Julian Edelman, and Carson Wentz say otherwise

hawginbigd1

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 11:56:26 am »

Adrian Peterson, Julian Edelman, and Carson Wentz say otherwise
AP was the exception, not the rule, you bringing up Wentz is funny, he looked average at best and nowhere near the guy compared to last year.
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King Kong

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 12:00:17 pm »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.

Childs and Monk did not tear their ACL’s.

Nick Chubb tore multiple ligaments in his knee than his ACL.

BigSexyHog

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 01:17:43 pm »

AP was the exception, not the rule, you bringing up Wentz is funny, he looked average at best and nowhere near the guy compared to last year.

You're right.  Lets not sign them and kick them curbside and let some other team deal with our trash.  Good riddance

hawginbigd1

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 01:39:56 pm »

You're right.  Lets not sign them and kick them curbside and let some other team deal with our trash.  Good riddance
If that's what you took from this, then a little remedial reading comprehension might help you out.

daprospecta

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 02:05:57 pm »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.
As someone who had an ACL injury and had to play afterwards, I agree. I played D-Line and it took me about a 1 year to feel comfortable on it but a skill player has to cut early and often.  Maybe not two years but about 18 months until he feels comfortable.  I can tell you that ACL recovery isn't about the actual recovery but trusting your knee. 
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TXHog30

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 02:12:14 pm »

I don't expect Burks to contribute in game 1. He's not on campus and is still recovering. He should make noise on the latter half of the season. Not to damper expectations. He will be phenomenal for us in due time.

On the bright side -we have a megatron in Trey Knox and an electric Shamar Nash who are on campus, learning the routes and being coached. Expect them to do damage early.
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fishes2000

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 02:13:25 pm »

What about Hunter Henry? Didn't he tear his acl?
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TexHog188

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 11:10:37 am »

I think that ACL repair is better understood and has much better outcomes these days, and the same is true for rehab.   I'm optimistic about our guys, but healing and rehab can be very different from person to person, so there is some question as to just how effective each will be come August.

The Dallas Mavericks just signed Kristaps Porzingis who is coming off ACL surgery from 13 Feb 2018.  He did not play this season and it was announced that he will not play until next season.  His rehab is said to be going well, and he was just cleared by doctors to play, but out of precaution he will sit.  So that's about 1 yr to be cleared and 1 1/2 years from injury to return to the court.  His recovery is way outside the norm.

TexHog188

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 11:33:33 am »

Another example example is Taysom Hill.  Hill wrecked his knee on the last play of his 6th game as a Freshman, Oct 5 2012.  He then won the starting job back for the beginning of the 2013 season, so about 9 months from injury to full speed practice and 10 months to playing a game. In his second game back, he rushed for 259 yards and 3 touchdowns as BYU beat Texas 40-21, great day!  If you have ever watched Hill play, he plays with abandon. He went on to play parts of 4 more seasons; broke a leg, broke a foot, and broke his elbow over those 4 years but his knee held up fine.  He just completed his first season with the NO Saints where he saw the field on special teams, as a receiver, and as a quarterback.  Clearly his knee is fully healthy after taking a lot of post surgery abuse.

woodhog14

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 12:24:46 pm »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.
Childs wasn't an ACL. He tore his patella tendon, which is much harder to come back from than an ACL injury. Chubb tore every ligament in his knee, so of course that's going to take longer. Most players that have ACL injuries are back in full go by 8-9 months.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2019, 12:30:50 pm »

For gen pop ACL is a back to daily things in a few weeks, back to mobile without scare a couple of months. 

Athletes, AP exempt, are back in workouts in 8 months or so.  They usually won't start relying on that new ligament with cuts and such for a little bit after that.  The biggest thing becomes getting the full strength back, this takes a year, I don't care what any one says.  As someone who has came off an ACL, you have a lot of things back in month's 910,11, etc, but the full stamina and strength is a year give or take a little. 

The BIGGEST thing is the mental side, do you trust it, do you believe in it, are you scared to be as aggressive with a jump, a cut, weights, etc.  It will take Catalong and Burks live speed games before they know whether they are truly ready.  While it's not popular on here, I don't expect either to be at their fullest their freshman year.  I much rather them take their time, make their own strides and be that true 100% their sophomore years. 
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1highhog

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 12:42:34 pm »

In an interview with Jeremy muck burkes says he is 85% and will be 100% before he gets too Arkansas


He's 85% right now running in a straight line, he hasn't done any cutting on it yet.  So he's not at 85% on it fully.  Just passing on what I've heard.

hawginbigd1

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 12:42:41 pm »

For gen pop ACL is a back to daily things in a few weeks, back to mobile without scare a couple of months. 

Athletes, AP exempt, are back in workouts in 8 months or so.  They usually won't start relying on that new ligament with cuts and such for a little bit after that.  The biggest thing becomes getting the full strength back, this takes a year, I don't care what any one says.  As someone who has came off an ACL, you have a lot of things back in month's 910,11, etc, but the full stamina and strength is a year give or take a little. 

The BIGGEST thing is the mental side, do you trust it, do you believe in it, are you scared to be as aggressive with a jump, a cut, weights, etc.  It will take Catalong and Burks live speed games before they know whether they are truly ready.  While it's not popular on here, I don't expect either to be at their fullest their freshman year.  I much rather them take their time, make their own strides and be that true 100% their sophomore years.
Exactly the way I see it, serious lower body injuries are just different for skill positions. There are exceptions, but from what I have seen it takes longer than a year to be 100%. Imo even if they come on and make stellar contributions in October and November we won't see the players that they will be the following year barring any setbacks. Someone brought up Taysom Hill in another post, imo he was never the same player in college post injury as he was as a Freshman. He was RB dynamic as a Freshman, but never got back to that because of the other injuries also, he still ran the ball well but imo he wasn't as shifty and fast. He looked better this year than in college imo.
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mhsbc59

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 01:00:19 pm »

The biggest hurdle coming back from an ACL is the mental aspect being about to trust the joint.  Its why lots of times when someone is coming back from an ACL they tear they tear there other ACL.  SO it is a concern for me.
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farfromgroovins

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2019, 01:15:35 pm »

Does it really matter if it's 1 or 2 years?
Hogs are not competing for the SEC West next year anyway.  Let these guys get 100% (however long that takes) and play them.
Hog football, much like their knees, is a rebuilding process.
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HogJowler

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2019, 06:25:54 pm »

For gen pop ACL is a back to daily things in a few weeks, back to mobile without scare a couple of months. 

Athletes, AP exempt, are back in workouts in 8 months or so.  They usually won't start relying on that new ligament with cuts and such for a little bit after that.  The biggest thing becomes getting the full strength back, this takes a year, I don't care what any one says.  As someone who has came off an ACL, you have a lot of things back in month's 910,11, etc, but the full stamina and strength is a year give or take a little. 

The BIGGEST thing is the mental side, do you trust it, do you believe in it, are you scared to be as aggressive with a jump, a cut, weights, etc.  It will take Catalong and Burks live speed games before they know whether they are truly ready.  While it's not popular on here, I don't expect either to be at their fullest their freshman year.  I much rather them take their time, make their own strides and be that true 100% their sophomore years. 

Thanks for positive honest insight.  This  is kind of what I was thinking.  Never tore a knee but coming back from a ruptured Achilles took me a solid year and I am not an athlete. I don't see how athletes come back from them in a year.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2019, 07:27:21 pm »

Thanks for positive honest insight.  This  is kind of what I was thinking.  Never tore a knee but coming back from a ruptured Achilles took me a solid year and I am not an athlete. I don't see how athletes come back from them in a year.

I did the knee, not the achilles.  I don't know if I can compare but If I made an assumption, the achilles would be worse.
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chiti66

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2019, 08:50:11 pm »

My son tore his ACL in November, had surgery in Dec and was cleared to play in June.  Didn't have the senior year we wanted (11 games, 400+ yards, 5 TDs), but that was on us as we focused on strength more so than speed (he was a tailback).  While he was squatting 400lbs, and benching 275lbs, at 5'6" 180, it was clear that he'd lost a step. Had we devoted more time to speed, his season probably would have gone better.  Bottonline, kids these days can get back to full speed after 6 months and depending on how they work, can come back better than before.  WPS!

rinds

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2019, 08:57:35 pm »


He's 85% right now running in a straight line, he hasn't done any cutting on it yet.  So he's not at 85% on it fully.  Just passing on what I've heard.

He is fall enrollment, that still gives him  6 or 7 more months until August. If he is doing that now he sound like he is on schedule.   
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colbs

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2019, 08:58:34 pm »

I think both players tore their ACL in October so it when the season starts it will be almost a year.
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nwahogfan1

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2019, 09:06:51 pm »

As someone who had an ACL injury and had to play afterwards, I agree. I played D-Line and it took me about a 1 year to feel comfortable on it but a skill player has to cut early and often.  Maybe not two years but about 18 months until he feels comfortable.  I can tell you that ACL recovery isn't about the actual recovery but trusting your knee. 

Totally agree.  If the doctors did their work correctly and the kid worked tirelessly on his rehab then it is all about the kid trusting their knee again.  It is all mental and everyone is different.  So they might be ready day 1 and they might not be depending on factors of the mind.
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DOGALUM

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2019, 09:13:26 pm »

The simple answer is yes....there are concerns but nobody knows for sure because everyone heals differently.  Could be back quickly and better than ever or could never fully recover.....or anywhere in between.  Stay tuned. 
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2019, 06:47:06 am »

I think both players tore their ACL in October so it when the season starts it will be almost a year.
Burks tore his October 5th it looks like
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LA Football fan

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2019, 08:35:17 am »

My understanding was the ACL was an old injury that was found during surgery and that he didn't actually tear it during that game.  Was told it was a meniscus tear and found the ACL needed repair too.  Don't know if that would make any difference in the healing process or not since the doctors would have to reattach everything correctly anyway.  Either way, he is well on his way to recovery and by summertime should be healed enough to start testing the knee even further than straight line running.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2019, 08:48:30 am »

My understanding was the ACL was an old injury that was found during surgery and that he didn't actually tear it during that game.  Was told it was a meniscus tear and found the ACL needed repair too.  Don't know if that would make any difference in the healing process or not since the doctors would have to reattach everything correctly anyway.  Either way, he is well on his way to recovery and by summertime should be healed enough to start testing the knee even further than straight line running.
I believe this is also what AirWarren told me
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2019, 10:37:09 am »

Sorry, I don't buy it for a minute, I have seen it way too many times, these guys in skill positions take about 2 years to get to 100%( Think Childs and Monk for Razorbacks, Nick Chubb recently). We have 1 on campus currently, name escapes me at the moment same issue.

Every person and injury is COMPLETELY different. Some people never fully recover...and most of that is mentally. See Adrian Peterson. It didn’t even take him a full year before he was tearing up the NFL with 8-9 man boxes every game. He said he “attacked his rehab”. He was also mentally driven and ready. We'll see how these guys come out of their rehab, but to say it can’t happen is ridiculous.

plumbhog

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2019, 08:21:39 pm »

Wasn't this the same injury Madre Hill went through?
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onebadrubi

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2019, 11:46:54 pm »

My understanding was the ACL was an old injury that was found during surgery and that he didn't actually tear it during that game.  Was told it was a meniscus tear and found the ACL needed repair too.  Don't know if that would make any difference in the healing process or not since the doctors would have to reattach everything correctly anyway.  Either way, he is well on his way to recovery and by summertime should be healed enough to start testing the knee even further than straight line running.

It is irrelevant.  The healing times starts from date of surgery,  not date of injury.  There are a couple ways to repair an ACL, patella tendon, hamstring, or cadaver.  Patella is old school, ham string is strongest for future and cadaver is fastest recovery.  No matter which he picked he is going to need some time to return to previous form. I’m saying mid season at best this coming year. Could be wrong but hope he’s not rushing it and comes back premature. 
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Swestwill66

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2019, 09:54:11 pm »

My understanding was the ACL was an old injury that was found during surgery and that he didn't actually tear it during that game.  Was told it was a meniscus tear and found the ACL needed repair too.  Don't know if that would make any difference in the healing process or not since the doctors would have to reattach everything correctly anyway.  Either way, he is well on his way to recovery and by summertime should be healed enough to start testing the knee even further than straight line running.

He had an old acl injury ? So, he probably made a bunch of those plays on his hudl  with a bad knee ? Good Gosh ! Can't wait to see what he can do with 2 good knees!

OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2019, 10:28:58 am »

Too much worry...
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sickboy

Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2019, 11:43:46 am »

Every person and injury is COMPLETELY different. Some people never fully recover...and most of that is mentally. See Adrian Peterson. It didn’t even take him a full year before he was tearing up the NFL with 8-9 man boxes every game. He said he “attacked his rehab”. He was also mentally driven and ready. We'll see how these guys come out of their rehab, but to say it can’t happen is ridiculous.

This. Rehab is 90% mental with athletes. For the average Joe, your body and overall physicality plays a role, but if you're a honed athlete, you can overcome ACL tears, you just have to get over the metal hurdles. And those aren't easy to get over. I couldn't do it as an athlete.

Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2019, 11:57:18 am »

My lab is a world class athlete at least in my mind.  He's not one of those fat labs, all muscle, high motor.  Weighs in the mid 90's.  40 time and vertical would make him a 4*.  He blew out his ACL before Christmas and had surgery Jan 2.  We are almost 7 weeks out and have been doing PT for about 5.  He's got mobility and use back in the leg but I don't think he will be 100% for at least a year.  As others have mentioned strength, stamina, and trust seem to be the biggest factors.  We did do platelet rich plasma treatment at the time to help speed healing.  I'd estimate it probably put him 4 weeks ahead of other dogs
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mhsbc59

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2019, 12:13:26 pm »

My lab is a world class athlete at least in my mind.  He's not one of those fat labs, all muscle, high motor.  Weighs in the mid 90's.  40 time and vertical would make him a 4*.  He blew out his ACL before Christmas and had surgery Jan 2.  We are almost 7 weeks out and have been doing PT for about 5.  He's got mobility and use back in the leg but I don't think he will be 100% for at least a year.  As others have mentioned strength, stamina, and trust seem to be the biggest factors.  We did do platelet rich plasma treatment at the time to help speed healing.  I'd estimate it probably put him 4 weeks ahead of other dogs

did you use hamstring, part of patella tendon or dogie cadaver ACL?

Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2019, 12:51:15 pm »

did you use hamstring, part of patella tendon or dogie cadaver ACL?

He actually had TPLO.  No actual ligament replacement or repair.
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mhsbc59

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2019, 01:02:11 pm »

He actually had TPLO.  No actual ligament replacement or repair.

that will be a stiff leg
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2019, 01:40:30 pm »

that will be a stiff leg

That's what she said.

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2019, 10:16:39 am »

I don't care what any one says.

An ACL is a serious injury, it takes time to come back from. Differs from person to person. But when you say, "I don't care what any one says,"  the conversation is pretty much over.

EFBAB
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redleg

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2019, 11:04:35 am »

As for Burks, my guess is that he will be healed by pre-season workouts in August, but may not be completely comfortable with his knee until around mid-season. I look for Trey Knox, TQ Jackson, and Shamar Nash to play key roles at WR in 2019, in addition to the veterans. But do not be surprised if Burks comes on in the second half of the season to show off his SEC-level skills. I do not see him redshirting.

As for Catalon, I could say the same for him at safety. But this might be a chance for him to redshirt. There are some good players at safety, and Catalon could get in some time in four games before Morris puts the redshirt on him. A junior Joseph Foucha and a redshirt freshman Jalen Catalon at free safety in 2020 would be a serious one-two punch!
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onebadrubi

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2019, 10:33:25 am »

An ACL is a serious injury, it takes time to come back from. Differs from person to person. But when you say, "I don't care what any one says,"  the conversation is pretty much over.

EFBAB

Just out of curiosity, how many ACL and knee surgeries have you performed or had done?  People are always quick to say ah guy can be back in 6-8 months etc.  It is proven time and time again those dates are rough estimates, however you can not back up your stance that a year is improper without removing a few slim outliers. 

There are many examples of a guy coming back slightly sooner but not being back to his same form.  As recent as Hunter Henry. 

I see you didn't want to support your case with any facts instead of just saying where I shut down the conversation.  I fully expect both guys to give it a full go, but I doubt they are pre injury inside that 1 year timeline of surgery.
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NinoHogUNIA

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Re: Any concern that two of
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2019, 07:18:09 pm »

I think that ACL repair is better understood and has much better outcomes these days, and the same is true for rehab.   I'm optimistic about our guys, but healing and rehab can be very different from person to person, so there is some question as to just how effective each will be come August.

The Dallas Mavericks just signed Kristaps Porzingis who is coming off ACL surgery from 13 Feb 2018.  He did not play this season and it was announced that he will not play until next season.  His rehab is said to be going well, and he was just cleared by doctors to play, but out of precaution he will sit.  So that's about 1 yr to be cleared and 1 1/2 years from injury to return to the court.  His recovery is way outside the norm.

You're also talking about a 7'3 freak athlete.   A tad bit different from average Joe.
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