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Author Topic: Attendance last night  (Read 3373 times)

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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2019, 05:52:56 pm »

ANNOUNCED CROWD OF 6300. Means much less there. Used to draw more regardless of day/time. Great weather after big LSU win but locals and students donít show. Say what you want but this program has stagnated.



No, they are using ticket scanners to get those numbers, and they are not getting 100% counted for some reason.
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factchecker

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2019, 05:58:51 pm »

So...why would UA do that? For marketing purposes, we'd be better off either using tickets sold or having Kevin Trainor scan the crowd and give a ballpark estimate on it.

Anybody see the logic behind this?
I think it started with the WSJ article a while back and then fed into the GSD.  Now it's a focal point.

Either way - I've heard that scanned tickets doesn't take in the student passes or members of the band.
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2019, 06:01:41 pm »

Bringing excitement to the program was one of the most popular arguments for his hiring.   Now it doesnít matter.   You are adding to the list of what should be accepted as the new normal. 

There has been no bait and switch. You and I had this exchange before the season. Now you and Smithian are claiming it is just now today coming up.
Perhaps we did.  I don't recall.  But to say that being merely ninth nationally in attendance indicates lack of excitement is a little bizarre, especially since Northwest Arkansas is a relatively depopulated place.  I would guess that most people would look at our attendance figures relative to other schools and make note of the unusual amount of enthusiasm hog fans have, relative to most, even when we haven't had top ten teams.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2019, 06:02:37 pm »

I'm a logical person, I think. Try to be. Let me see if I understand.

There is at least some anecdotal evidence from fans attending games that not every ticket gets scanned. I may have read a tweet from a media member saying the same thing.

That means that by definition the athletic department is reporting that less people attended the game than actually did, which makes it appear, in turn, that there is less interest in the program than there actually is.

So...why would UA do that? For marketing purposes, we'd be better off either using tickets sold or having Kevin Trainor scan the crowd and give a ballpark estimate on it.

Anybody see the logic behind this?

The SID office will promote the attendance as tickets sold and the 9th in college basketball ranking at the end of this year as they always do.  The scanned or how it was listed before the "actual" number is just listed in the UA boxscores. They donít promote those numbers of course.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2019, 06:03:37 pm »

To say that being merely ninth nationally in attendance indicates lack of excitement is a little bizarre, especially since Northwest Arkansas is a relatively depopulated place.  I would guess that most people would look at our attendance figures relative to other schools and make note of the unusual amount of enthusiasm hog fans have, relative to most, even when we haven't had top ten teams.

Are you intentionally being obtuse?
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2019, 06:05:01 pm »

The gameday staff are probably instructed to have every ticket scanned but it does not happen that way.

I don't think there's a massive disparity, but I expect it is at least a few hundred a game, especially less attended games where ushers are less concerned with people slipping in.

Crowd was over 13000 last night?
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2019, 06:05:21 pm »

Are you intentionally being obtuse?
Maybe you should call it a day.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2019, 06:05:47 pm »

Maybe you should call it a day.

No. I shouldnít. 
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2019, 06:17:11 pm »

No. I shouldnít.
Ok.  For your lack-of-enthusiasm argument to make sense, you'd either have to demonstrate that our position in the top ten nationally for attendance is some sort of lie, or, alternatively, argue that, even if it is true, it's not good enough to be merely ninth nationally in attendance.  Perhaps nothing less than first in attendance will do for you.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2019, 06:22:01 pm »

No. I shouldnít.
He's beating you with experience.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2019, 06:22:30 pm »

Ok.  For your lack-of-enthusiasm argument to make sense, you'd either have to demonstrate that our position in the top ten nationally for attendance is some sort of lie, or, alternatively, argue that, even if it is true, it's not good enough to be merely ninth nationally in attendance.  Perhaps nothing less than first in attendance will do for you.

The attendance figure we are promoting and reporting to the NCAA is the tickets sold - not the actual attendance.  Do we have to keep going over this?  The actual attendance figures our own athletic department has been reporting for several years on their boxscores is less than the "attendance" number.  In some seasons, thousands less on average.  So in people actually using the tickets and physically going to the games, we aren't 9th.  Unused tickets + thousands of unsold tickets could leave someone to believe excitement is waning.  You've seen other posters here talk about how bad our fans are now for not attending and supporting.  Now your turn again to promote the 9th in "attendance" ranking. 

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2019, 06:22:45 pm »

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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2019, 06:30:27 pm »

The attendance figure we are promoting and reporting to the NCAA is the tickets sold - not the actual attendance.  Do we have to keep going over this?  The actual attendance figures our own athletic department has been reporting for several years on their boxscores is less than the "attendance" number.  In some seasons, thousands less on average.  So in people actually using the tickets and physically going to the games, we aren't 9th.  Unused tickets + thousands of unsold tickets could leave someone to believe excitement is waning.  You've seen other posters here talk about how bad our fans are now for not attending and supporting.  Now your turn again to promote the 9th in "attendance" ranking.
The other schools also report tickets sold, not actual attendance.  We were ninth last year in tickets sold.  I have no doubt that actual attendance is less than tickets sold, but that is true everywhere.  To say we have a lower ratio of actual attendance relative to tickets sold is just your speculation.  It may be true, but I doubt it, and there is no way for you to prove it, or for me to disprove it, either, for that matter.

Smithian

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2019, 06:31:45 pm »

This thread is getting silly.

Attendance is not good this season. Last season was underwhelming and ended with a first round dud. Expectations were low this year and, after an intriguing start, the Hogs lost back to back home games on the eve of conference play. No one is denying that.

But the majority of Power 5 program, even winning ones, would be thrilled with our fan base. And if the Razorbacks finish this season strong and don't have a tumultuous offseason of transfers, the fanbase will be ready to come out in force next season.
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Hogmatic

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2019, 06:34:54 pm »

The attendance figure we are promoting and reporting to the NCAA is the tickets sold - not the actual attendance.  Do we have to keep going over this?  The actual attendance figures our own athletic department has been reporting for several years on their boxscores is less than the "attendance" number.  In some seasons, thousands less on average.  So in people actually using the tickets and physically going to the games, we aren't 9th.  Unused tickets + thousands of unsold tickets could leave someone to believe excitement is waning.  You've seen other posters here talk about how bad our fans are now for not attending and supporting.  Now your turn again to promote the 9th in "attendance" ranking.

And another more telling comparison is to compare attendance to OUR PAST and look at the trend.   What was our attendance in numbers and capacity %?   From the late 70's to the early 2000's we have filled the arena's to almost full capacity.    The failing Heath, Pel and Anderson years tell a completely different story compared to our history.   We have one of the biggest on campus arenas in the US so with meager attendance we automatically will have a higher number than many schools.
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Smithian

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2019, 06:35:59 pm »

I have no way of proving this but I do believe basketball has been affected by other sports. I think people paint our programs with a brush. Most fans don't watch baseball, but then tuned into for the CWS and the most devastating loss possible. The football season was a disaster. I think people are just disappointed by the Razorbacks in general.

Not easy to be a fan of the major sports right now.
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factchecker

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2019, 06:39:27 pm »

I have no way of proving this but I do believe basketball has been affected by other sports. I think people paint our programs with a brush. Most fans don't watch baseball, but then tuned into for the CWS and the most devastating loss possible.
Those fans should have never tuned in ---- we were doing just fine without them.  They probably jinxed us.

PonderinHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2019, 06:41:30 pm »

Those fans should have never tuned in ---- we were doing just fine without them.  They probably jinxed us.
But the weather was nice!
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2019, 06:42:52 pm »

And another more telling comparison is to compare attendance to OUR PAST and look at the trend.   What was our attendance in numbers and capacity %?   From the late 70's to the early 2000's we have filled the arena's to almost full capacity.    The failing Heath, Pel and Anderson years tell a completely different story compared to our history.   We have one of the biggest on campus arenas in the US so with meager attendance we automatically will have a higher number than many schools.
Oh, but the trend is the same everywhere.  It's not particular to Arkansas, so it's hard to draw the conclusion you so want to draw. We have from the NCAA only ticket sold numbers over the decades, not numbers for actual attendance, same as other schools.  For instance, in 1994 we were fourth in tickets sold.  In 2001 we were ninth, same as last year.  I have no doubt that the ratio of actual attendees to tickets sold was higher in 1994.
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Kevin McPherson

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2019, 06:43:37 pm »

There was much more than scanned number. Theyíve been off all year. And not by a small margin either.

This is 110% accurate, and then some ...

I was not in Fayetteville for Vandy, but have covered the Hogs at BWA all season and it is bizarre that the athletic department has not gotten its arms around the "scanned tickets" numbers because they have been way off and way under without fail each and every game.

In the past when they used "estimated actual attendance", I always thought they estimated a bit high -- not a lot, but maybe a tad high. But the "scanned tickets" are several thousand off and always much less than butts in seats. I've covered Hogs basketball on and off since the late 80s/early 90s, so I've been in BWA either as a fan or on media row since BWA opened, but in general regardless of venue I have a feel within a few hundred what the actual numbers likely are.

This season with the "scanned tickets" reporting, I kept thinking to myself that it was way off but did not say anything in the media room until other media members started talking about it, then I chimed in that I thought it was bizarre. Crazy to think the AD's office is okay underselling -- by a lot -- actual butts in seats. Surely they see the same things we do.

I'm going to ask someone at UA about this by the next home game. I've been curious all season how they are okay with shorting the announced attendance numbers.
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SnoutSays

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2019, 06:45:24 pm »

Higher ups are fudging to make Anderson look bad?  Is this a sign?
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PonderinHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2019, 06:47:31 pm »

Can't somebody count the legs and divide by two ???

factchecker

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2019, 06:49:00 pm »

Higher ups are fudging to make Anderson look bad?  Is this a sign?
Same thing happened in football for the LSU game.

Someone I know says that they don't count student tickets - which would be an around an additional 5k for football (for part of the game at least) and maybe another 1k for basketball (depending on the opponent).

little rock doesn't have to worry about student tickets b/c they don't use student IDs to get into verizon or wms.
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factchecker

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2019, 06:52:05 pm »

Oh, but the trend is the same everywhere.  It's not particular to Arkansas, so it's hard to draw the conclusion you so want to draw. W
Yep.  People can't use the apathy excuse for Oklahoma.  They had a Heisman winner and playoff team in football and here is their attendance vs. #17 Iowa State on Monday:

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2019, 06:54:41 pm »

Yep.  People can't use the apathy excuse for Oklahoma.  They had a Heisman winner and playoff team in football and here is their attendance vs. #17 Iowa State on Monday:



So football success was supposed to bring fan interest to basketball at OU?  Not a fan base known for their interest in basketball.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2019, 07:00:35 pm »

The UA reported estimated actual attendance through last season.  The scanned reference on the box score is a change this season.

I haven't researched last season's attendance and estimated per game.

2016-17 through 14 games we avg 8565 estimated actual attendance.

In 15-16 through 14 games 8,955 estimated.

This season in scanned it has been 8,589 per game.  Not a big difference from those two recent season's estimated.


Miss St, OM and Bama will have bigger crowds I'm sure. 
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RebHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2019, 07:02:05 pm »

Why even start a thread like this in a 3 game win streak how about enjoy it and see what happens the rest of the year. I wouldn't be opposed to moving on from Mike after the year but when the team has some success don't beat it down.
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Kevin McPherson

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2019, 07:06:16 pm »

Oh, but the trend is the same everywhere. It's not particular to Arkansas, so it's hard to draw the conclusion you so want to draw. We have from the NCAA only ticket sold numbers over the decades, not numbers for actual attendance, same as other schools.  For instance, in 1994 we were fourth in tickets sold.  In 2001 we were ninth, same as last year.  I have no doubt that the ratio of actual attendees to tickets sold was higher in 1994.

Yep. CBB attendance has been declining for years due to multiple factors. Most of college basketball would kill for Arkansas's ticket sales and actual butts in seats, even though here locally the numbers do not live up to what they were 25 years ago.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2019, 07:12:29 pm »

Sports has an attendance issue. College basketball attendance has declined with the product.  UK even experienced it in non conf. We can have a reasonable discussion on this subject if we could get to a starting point.  Canít do that if the starting point is tickets sold.  Or we could drop it for a while.

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2019, 07:18:42 pm »

Sports has an attendance issue. College basketball attendance has declined with the product.  UK even experienced it in non conf. We can have a reasonable discussion on this subject if we could get to a starting point.  Canít do that if the starting point is tickets sold.  Or we could drop it for a while.

Tickts sold and butts in seats are BOTH important. Any conversation about attendance should include BOTH as BOTH matter. So, yeah tickets sold is a starting point as long as it is not propped up by itself as the complete picture.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2019, 07:21:19 pm »

So, yeah tickets sold is a starting point as long as it is not propped up by itself as the complete picture.

Agreed
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PonderinHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2019, 07:25:39 pm »

Tickts sold and butts in seats are BOTH important. Any conversation about attendance should include BOTH as BOTH matter. So, yeah tickets sold is a starting point as long as it is not propped up by itself as the complete picture.
Good point.  Here's my follow-up question:  Are those that do still attend more subdued or is it strictly a function of attendance?  It just doesn't sound as loud on TV as it used to.  Or are they filtering out crowd noise on the telecasts?
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Kevin McPherson

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2019, 07:36:03 pm »

Good point.  Here's my follow-up question:  Are those that do still attend more subdued or is it strictly a function of attendance?  It just doesn't sound as loud on TV as it used to.  Or are they filtering out crowd noise on the telecasts?

Some games have been electric in BWA this season. Indiana, Florida International, Austin Peay were really, really loud. Thought Florida, Missouri, and Georgia games got better in the second half as the Hogs made runs. I missed LSU with flu/bronchitis, but that looked like a lively crowd on the tube. One thing I've noticed is there are times when its more like a corporate ticket-block feel compared to the past when it was strictly Razorback-red-blooded Hog fans spilling out of the rafters. It's not like it used to be, but still a great atmosphere more often than not.
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2019, 07:36:08 pm »

Sports has an attendance issue. College basketball attendance has declined with the product.  UK even experienced it in non conf. We can have a reasonable discussion on this subject if we could get to a starting point.  Canít do that if the starting point is tickets sold.  Or we could drop it for a while.
Tickets sold is the starting point since that's the number we have data on going back decades, so we can make comparisons both with other schools' ticket sales and with our own ticket sales over time.  I don't think anyone doubts that the ratio of attendees/ticket sales varies based on the fan base's enthusiasm for the team, local weather, opponent, and the availability of media like SEC Network.  Fan base enthusiasm might be the biggest factor.  I would guess that in 1994 the ratio of attendees/ticket sales was between .9 and 1.  Besides, tickets sold is a proxy for revenue to the athletic department, so it's important in itself.

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2019, 08:15:59 pm »

So football success was supposed to bring fan interest to basketball at OU?  Not a fan base known for their interest in basketball.
So baseball barely missing out on a national championship is supposed to impact basketball????

follow along === here I'll help:

I have no way of proving this but I do believe basketball has been affected by other sports. I think people paint our programs with a brush. Most fans don't watch baseball, but then tuned into for the CWS and the most devastating loss possible. The football season was a disaster. I think people are just disappointed by the Razorbacks in general.

Not easy to be a fan of the major sports right now.
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Smithian

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2019, 08:27:14 pm »

So baseball barely missing out on a national championship is supposed to impact basketball????

follow along === here I'll help:

I pointed out I have no way to prove it.

I just know when I bring up Razorback sports it often turns into a whine fest about how it has been a pretty rough last year.

Unlike most, I label my rampant speculation as such.

PonderinHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2019, 08:41:54 pm »

I pointed out I have no way to prove it.

I just know when I bring up Razorback sports it often turns into a whine fest about how it has been a pretty rough last year.

Unlike most, I label my rampant speculation as such.
Well, now I don't know whether to ridicule your rampant speculation or applaud your candor.
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factchecker

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2019, 08:44:49 pm »

Texas attendance tonight:

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WilsonHog

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2019, 08:56:53 pm »

I wonder what attendance looks like, perhaps as a function of % of seats sold, at the blue blood schools - Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, etc.?
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hawgfan4life

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #89 on: February 06, 2019, 09:21:12 pm »

Looking at Miss St and LSU in Starksville and there are tons of empty seats.  Perfect example of trend all around the country and not just at Arkansas. 

Hogmatic

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #90 on: February 06, 2019, 09:55:31 pm »

Oh, but the trend is the same everywhere.  It's not particular to Arkansas, so it's hard to draw the conclusion you so want to draw. We have from the NCAA only ticket sold numbers over the decades, not numbers for actual attendance, same as other schools.  For instance, in 1994 we were fourth in tickets sold.  In 2001 we were ninth, same as last year.  I have no doubt that the ratio of actual attendees to tickets sold was higher in 1994.

Are you really that limited?    You are twisting the comparison to create confusion or you are limited.   A comparison of attendance or tickets sold NOW against OUR PAST will show a big difference.    You won't like what you see in our attendance numbers and an even more upsetting analysis is the attendance or tickets sold as a capacity %. 

From the late 70's to the early 2000's we have filled the arena's to almost full capacity.    The failing Heath, Pel and Anderson years tell a completely different story compared to our history.   We have one of the biggest on campus arenas in the US so with meager attendance we automatically will have a higher number than many schools.
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East Clintwood

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2019, 10:24:14 pm »

There was more than 9,000 there last night, the scanners donít scan everybody, if you are in a big group they usually just look at your ticket and let you through.


Then they should go back to turnstiles for counting.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #92 on: February 06, 2019, 10:37:59 pm »

Perhaps we did.  I don't recall.  But to say that being merely ninth nationally in attendance indicates lack of excitement is a little bizarre, especially since Northwest Arkansas is a relatively depopulated place.  I would guess that most people would look at our attendance figures relative to other schools and make note of the unusual amount of enthusiasm hog fans have, relative to most, even when we haven't had top ten teams.

NWA is a depopulated place? Do you even realize how dumb that reads. Do you even have a clue as to how many people live in the NWA MSA? Do you even know what an MSA is?
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2019, 03:56:19 am »

I wonder what attendance looks like, perhaps as a function of % of seats sold, at the blue blood schools - Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, etc.?

Funny you should ask.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2019/01/26/kentucky-basketball-attendance-down-tim-sullivan/2646455002/

Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2019, 06:14:18 am »

NWA is a depopulated place? Do you even realize how dumb that reads. Do you even have a clue as to how many people live in the NWA MSA? Do you even know what an MSA is?
Yes, a little over half a million for the whole MSA, which is about how many live in just my neighborhood in another part of the country.  It ranks way down at around 105th for the country as a whole.  Sorry, but I didn't mean it as an insult.  I'm sure it's a wonderful place to live, just not many people live there.
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Ironhawg

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2019, 06:15:36 am »

Those 8pm start times during the week are tough on attendance.  I was talking to a friend who has season tickets about the Vandy game.  He said he watched part of the game on TV, but didn't go because of how late it is when he gets home.  I understand they're doing those late starts for the SEC Network, but it does make attending hard for working folks.
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Fan701

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2019, 06:42:17 am »

Are you really that limited?    You are twisting the comparison to create confusion or you are limited.   A comparison of attendance or tickets sold NOW against OUR PAST will show a big difference.    You won't like what you see in our attendance numbers and an even more upsetting analysis is the attendance or tickets sold as a capacity %. 

From the late 70's to the early 2000's we have filled the arena's to almost full capacity.    The failing Heath, Pel and Anderson years tell a completely different story compared to our history.   We have one of the biggest on campus arenas in the US so with meager attendance we automatically will have a higher number than many schools.
Also, a comparison of tickets sold now against most other schools' past ticket sales numbers will show a decline, too.  We are far from unique.  Nationwide, attendance as measured by ticket sales is down about 15% from 1995.  By comparison, Arkansas attendance as measured by ticket sales is down about 19% from 1995, but, of course, 1995 was a banner year for attendance since we were reigning national champions.  Compared to 2001, a year with Joe Johnson and of comparable success to last year, attendance as measured by ticket sales was almost identical:  16,181 per game last year vs. 16,225 in 2001, whereas over that period nationwide average attendance declined about 9%.  Arkansas really has a great fan base, and they still buy tickets.
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hawg66

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2019, 06:52:23 am »

Funny you should ask.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2019/01/26/kentucky-basketball-attendance-down-tim-sullivan/2646455002/
Didnít you know?  This is Andersonís fault too.  Itís links like this that will make Hogmatic disappear pretty quickly.
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FineAsSwine

Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #98 on: February 07, 2019, 09:08:08 am »

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Attendance last night
« Reply #99 on: February 07, 2019, 09:10:57 am »

Tickets sold is the starting point since that's the number we have data on going back decades, so we can make comparisons both with other schools' ticket sales and with our own ticket sales over time. I don't think anyone doubts that the ratio of attendees/ticket sales varies based on the fan base's enthusiasm for the team, local weather, opponent, and the availability of media like SEC Network.  Fan base enthusiasm might be the biggest factor.  I would guess that in 1994 the ratio of attendees/ticket sales was between .9 and 1.  Besides, tickets sold is a proxy for revenue to the athletic department, so it's important in itself.

That only took several hours and unnecessary posts to get to a reasonable common ground. 
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