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Author Topic: Question re Men's Track team  (Read 2427 times)

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JHicks3636

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Question re Men's Track team
« on: January 26, 2019, 08:12:36 pm »

And before anyone says anything about this post being in football, Lanny long ago said Track and Field could be posted here as there is no board for it. Now my question for someone who knows the team and I know there are several here. The Men's team appears down this year. Rated 12th at this point, third in out meet this week(and not close to top 2). I could not find a single Arkansas jumper( pole vault, Triple, long, or high). What's the deal? Why do we even need a jumps coach? I'm hoping the answer is we have great jumpers and they are starting them late. I'm not betting on it. Meanwhile the women are ranked #1. I know it will never be like our heyday but it seems we have regressed too much for our history. Any fans or old tracksters that can help here?

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 08:28:52 pm »

We should have the track and field expectations that UCLA or North Carolina have in basketball, and the expectations Alabama and Notre Dame have in football.



1 indoor natty in Bucknam's 11 years

0 outdoor nattys and 0 in cross country


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Pudgepork

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 09:09:43 pm »

Women are kicking tail.  Can the two swap coaches?   Seems the men do well in sec but are among the pack in nationals
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parallaxpig

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2019, 07:22:16 am »

Sorta in ball park. How many schollies does each team get? Do both have enough to give everyone a full ride?
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Hoginsavga

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2019, 09:22:46 am »

We should have the track and field expectations that UCLA or North Carolina have in basketball, and the expectations Alabama and Notre Dame have in football.



1 indoor natty in Bucknam's 11 years

0 outdoor nattys and 0 in cross country

Nope, itís just another sport where we have seemed to settle and be happy with just being average just like football and basketball. We have lost our mojo and I doubt we will ever get the program back to the dominant level. I really miss the years when we were a force on the national level in football, basketball and track.
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limitless

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 09:54:46 am »

John's formula was all about points.  Getting the most bang for the buck with horizontal jumpers also sprinting and milers doubling up in the longer events and running cross country.  Sprinkle in GREAT coaching from both John and Dick Booth and stir.

When you have single event competitors in the multi events, weight throw, etc., you are diluting scoring chances.

When you only have 12.6 scholarships to field a full track and XC team, then you have to have quality scorers double up.  Simple math. 

jkstock04

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 10:00:20 am »

The last time I was at a track meet a couple of years ago I watched the pole vault and if I remember right doesn't seem like we had anyone doing it.

Watching a track meet here live is extremely underrated. The amount of athletic prowess on display never ceases to amaze me.

Inhogswetrust

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2019, 10:12:59 am »

Started under Jeff Longs watch. We had the chance to hire some of Johnís guys and he wouldnít do it. At least John never has shown any animosity publically to my knowledge. I did read where some of Johns track guys were livid. That being said you canít please everyone. Heck I know a Hog baseball legend that doesnít like Dave Van Horn but it seems a lot of the former track guys were mad.

Hawgey-Davidson

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2019, 10:32:52 am »

Coach Mac pushed for Booth to replace him. Didnít happen. Should have.

rljjr

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 10:50:55 am »

John's formula was all about points.  Getting the most bang for the buck with horizontal jumpers also sprinting and milers doubling up in the longer events and running cross country.  Sprinkle in GREAT coaching from both John and Dick Booth and stir.

When you have single event competitors in the multi events, weight throw, etc., you are diluting scoring chances.

When you only have 12.6 scholarships to field a full track and XC team, then you have to have quality scorers double up.  Simple math. 

Forgive my track and field ignorance, and maybe I'm saying the same thing you are in a different way, but didn't JM win multiple natty's concentrating on distance events? Seemed like we always had great 10,000 and 5,000 guys (and maybe they were the milers too) sprinkled with sprinters when he had them and field events we were good at using sprinter speed like long jump and triple jump?

After I re-read your comment I think I'm merely repeating what you said, but want to make sure just in case.
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limitless

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2019, 12:00:06 pm »

You are saying the same thing.  A strong miler can run a great 3K, 5K and 10K.  Joe Falcon is probably the best example.  Horizontal jumpers can sprint.  Mike Conley is another great example.  Those guys are rare breeds but there were lots of others that weren't quite at that pinnacle that doubled up for points at both conference and nationals.

A lot of us didn't have anywhere near full rides either - since there are so few scholarships in men's track.

Boarcephus

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2019, 12:10:50 pm »

John's formula was all about points.  Getting the most bang for the buck with horizontal jumpers also sprinting and milers doubling up in the longer events and running cross country.  Sprinkle in GREAT coaching from both John and Dick Booth and stir.

When you have single event competitors in the multi events, weight throw, etc., you are diluting scoring chances.

When you only have 12.6 scholarships to field a full track and XC team, then you have to have quality scorers double up.  Simple math. 

I remember him saying one year that sprinters drove him crazy.  They're always twisting this, tweaking that.  I can remember him loading up in points by placing 3 or 4 guys in the distance events.  Amazing what he did. 

Mike Anderson has stated he knows the blueprint for success, someone should be pouring over JM's specs because there's never been anything like him before or since. 

pghawg1

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2019, 01:24:39 pm »

Not to beat a dead horse, but in my opinion Jeff Long has ruined our athletic program. Very, very frustrating.   

Hoggish1

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2019, 03:56:29 pm »

Not to beat a dead horse, but in my opinion Jeff Long has ruined our athletic program. Very, very frustrating.   

Uh, no.  John White did because he hired Long.

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2019, 04:31:10 pm »

Bucknam has kept Arkansas a Top 10 program.   His results and record would be considered outstanding at just about any other program (and really, his results here have been excellent).  It cannot be overstated what a got-dang legend John McDonnell is. 

I suspect Bucknam retires within the next 5 years or so.   Other than Oregon, there's no program in the country that has the tradition, will, and resources to win like Arkansas.  Whoever the next guy is might won't have quite the shadow to deal with, and success should follow. 

 
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2019, 04:36:50 pm »

Uh, no.  John White did because he hired Long.
I've had people tell me that White was a whiz at running the academic side of the university. Maybe, but the man knew zip about athletics and he never stopped sticking his nose into it.

I remember him running off Gary Blair after Blair had taken the Arkansas women to the Final Four. White was asked what he was going to do for a replacement. He said something like, Athletics is not hard to figure out. When you want a top coach you just go ask a top coach who to hire. They know.

So he asked Pat Summitt who told him to hire Susie Gardner who proceeded to go 16-40 in SEC games at Arkansas.

It apparently never occurred to White that Pat Summitt had no reason on the planet to see Arkansas get a top women's basketball coach. BTW, Blair's teams at Arkansas were drawing 5-8 K for regular season games and played in front of the all time record of 14,500 in the women's WNIT final at Bud Walton Arena.

The Arkansas women have never approached anything like those crowds since and Blair went on to win a national championship at Texas A&M.

FBREW000

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2019, 05:52:57 pm »

I've had people tell me that White was a whiz at running the academic side of the university. Maybe, but the man knew zip about athletics and he never stopped sticking his nose into it.

I remember him running off Gary Blair after Blair had taken the Arkansas women to the Final Four. White was asked what he was going to do for a replacement. He said something like, Athletics is not hard to figure out. When you want a top coach you just go ask a top coach who to hire. They know.

So he asked Pat Summitt who told him to hire Susie Gardner who proceeded to go 16-40 in SEC games at Arkansas.

It apparently never occurred to White that Pat Summitt had no reason on the planet to see Arkansas get a top women's basketball coach. BTW, Blair's teams at Arkansas were drawing 5-8 K for regular season games and played in front of the all time record of 14,500 in the women's WNIT final at Bud Walton Arena.

The Arkansas women have never approached anything like those crowds since and Blair went on to win a national championship at Texas A&M.

It shouldn't be too much longer with Neighbors.  He has us on the up for sure.

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2019, 06:17:54 pm »

Hoggish1 you are completely right about John White starting the downhill trend .  Long just continued it.  Sad for all of us  HOG fans

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2019, 06:23:59 pm »

..When you only have 12.6 scholarships to field a full track and XC team, then you have to have quality scorers double up.  Simple math.

And these scholarships are often fractionalized so that offers can be made to made athletes.  That means the athletes had better be able to earn some academic money along with their athletic awards. 
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Marshfieldhog

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2019, 09:50:01 pm »

Hoggish1 you are completely right about John White starting the downhill trend .  Long just continued it.  Sad for all of us  HOG fans

John White was truly the one that set the Athletic program back decades. Then we let his hire Jeff Long hang around way too long.
 

razorback44

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2019, 10:46:45 pm »

Bucknam has kept Arkansas a Top 10 program.   His results and record would be considered outstanding at just about any other program (and really, his results here have been excellent).  It cannot be overstated what a got-dang legend John McDonnell is. 

I suspect Bucknam retires within the next 5 years or so.   Other than Oregon, there's no program in the country that has the tradition, will, and resources to win like Arkansas.  Whoever the next guy is might won't have quite the shadow to deal with, and success should follow.

Top 10 in track isnít something to brag about when you have our history. The #10 team has ZERO shot at a national title. Thatíd be like Alabama football being content they were just sneaking in to the top 25. Itís called underachieving big time.

JHicks3636

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 04:34:09 pm »

Down to 17th in this weekís rankings. Only 6th in the SEC. Meanwhile the Women have a stranglehold on #1. Really seems as though womenís programs are improving while most menís sports are mired in mediocrity or worse.

oldhawg

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2019, 06:34:53 pm »

Down to 17th in this weekís rankings. Only 6th in the SEC. Meanwhile the Women have a stranglehold on #1. Really seems as though womenís programs are improving while most menís sports are mired in mediocrity or worse.

My hat's off to the Lady Razorback programs: Track & Field, Basketball, Softball, Soccer, Gymnastics.  Striving for excellence.

snoblind

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2019, 08:19:45 pm »

Down to 17th in this week’s rankings. Only 6th in the SEC. Meanwhile the Women have a stranglehold on #1. Really seems as though women’s programs are improving while most men’s sports are mired in mediocrity or worse.

Been 5 years since Bev Lewis retired.  They have had more time to recover.

ICEman

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2019, 03:22:00 pm »

Part of the issue is that Coach Bucknam has had multiple whiffs, misses and transfers recently in recruiting.

800m Carlton Orange x-fer to aTm
400m Obi Igbokwe x-fer to Houston (had a run-in with the law)
High Jumber Jah-Nhai Perinchief (x-fer to Texas Tech)
High Jumper Vernon Turner (x-fer into the Razorback Thinclads then quickly and mysteriously out)

Overall, Bucknam has strived to create a 'full-bodied' track program with top athletes across every event. I think his 'one-of-each' kind of athlete approach to recruiting is prone to problems related to injuries and transfers.  McDonnell was known for his 'next man up' approach to recruiting. Recruit elite athletes in just a few events in case someone comes up lame in a national meet. McDonnell's elite distance crew could run multiple events and potentially score in those events.  Bucknam's heptathletes and decathletes on the other hand run/jump/throw in multiple events but only score as a composite.

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tbhogfan

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2019, 04:28:03 pm »

Arkansas is top rated on the Women's side and rated 17 on the men's.

Chris is now in year 11 or 12, so the "taking over for a legend" shtick is getting a little old.  He has had some phenomenal individual athletes, but has struggled to win team championships at the national level.

Robert Johnson took over at Oregon from the legendary Vin Lananna.  All he's done in five years is win 13 NCAA championships.  To be fair, he coaches both men and women, but his men's teams have won 5 NCAA titles in his five years.

I am hoping that the AD takes a hard look at whether the men's track program is headed.
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EastexHawg

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2019, 04:35:13 pm »

It apparently never occurred to White that Pat Summitt had no reason on the planet to see Arkansas get a top women's basketball coach.

You mean when we need a coach we shouldn't ask the coach at a competitor school who we should hire?
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JHicks3636

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 03:41:18 pm »

After dropping from 17 to 22 last week, the Arkansas men followed up with a drop to 35th this week. Even without our history, that is unacceptable. Why even have a team? I'm yet to locate any jumpers for us and the lack of runners at any distance is amazing. You would think that we would have a large number of track alumni who could chime in for a change of coach.

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2019, 04:03:30 pm »

Another Jeff Long Hire!
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2019, 04:23:11 pm »

You mean when we need a coach we shouldn't ask the coach at a competitor school who we should hire?
I assume that's scarcasm. If not, of course you don't ask a competing coach. Why would they want you to get a great coach that they'll have to beat? Summitt knew exactly what she was doing when she recomended Gardner who was not ready to coach at an SEC school.

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 04:34:54 pm »

This is the link to this weeks rankings. Aside from the 35th ranking, two things stick out. One is that we muster only 28 points which is 138 less than the 1st ranked team. Secondly take a look at some of the teams ranked ahead of us. I'm sure the money they put in their program, their facilities, and history pale in comparison to us. On a positive note, our Women's team continues to run away from the field with a #1 ranking and 227 points which is almost 100 points ahead of #2 USCw. There is a thread about the Women in the Women's Sports forum.
http://www.ustfccca.org/2019/02/featured/2019-ncaa-di-mens-indoor-track-field-rating-index-week-4
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ICEman

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2019, 06:37:27 pm »

This is the link to this weeks rankings. Aside from the 35th ranking, two things stick out. One is that we muster only 28 points which is 138 less than the 1st ranked team. Secondly take a look at some of the teams ranked ahead of us. I'm sure the money they put in their program, their facilities, and history pale in comparison to us. On a positive note, our Women's team continues to run away from the field with a #1 ranking and 227 points which is almost 100 points ahead of #2 USCw. There is a thread about the Women in the Women's Sports forum.
http://www.ustfccca.org/2019/02/featured/2019-ncaa-di-mens-indoor-track-field-rating-index-week-4
We are getting set to spend $30,000,000+ more on facility upgrades and all we can muster is a slotted 35 position. Very disappointing! The thinclads have had a rash of top talent transfer out of the program recently.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 06:54:18 pm by ICEman »
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ICEman

Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2019, 07:17:00 pm »

Arkansas is top rated on the Women's side and rated 17 on the men's.

Chris is now in year 11 or 12, so the "taking over for a legend" shtick is getting a little old.  He has had some phenomenal individual athletes, but has struggled to win team championships at the national level.

Robert Johnson took over at Oregon from the legendary Vin Lananna.  All he's done in five years is win 13 NCAA championships.  To be fair, he coaches both men and women, but his men's teams have won 5 NCAA titles in his five years.

I am hoping that the AD takes a hard look at whether the men's track program is headed.
I think we are still a big enough draw to attract a top-flight coach. The guy we have now is trying too hard to be everything to everyone with the end result coming up flat. Bucknamís one mid-caliber athlete per event approach is leaving him vulnerable to roster depletion due to injuries and transfers.
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Rudy Baylor

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2019, 11:11:52 am »

Nope, itís just another sport where we have seemed to settle and be happy with just being average just like football and basketball. We have lost our mojo and I doubt we will ever get the program back to the dominant level. I really miss the years when we were a force on the national level in football, basketball and track.

No doubt. Everything you said. Correct.

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Re: Question re Men's Track team
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2019, 11:43:32 am »

We should have the track and field expectations that UCLA or North Carolina have in basketball, and the expectations Alabama and Notre Dame have in football.

1 indoor natty in Bucknam's 11 years

0 outdoor nattys and 0 in cross country

Totally agree, and believe we can do better. Our facilities are incredible, we have a fan base that cares more than most, and have a great tradition.

On a side note, your profile pic is the worst thing I have ever seen. Why re-live that every time you post?
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