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#hammerdown

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Playbook Knowledge
« on: January 14, 2019, 07:53:51 pm »

Last year we heard a lot of talk about the limited knowledge of the playbook.

Since getting clarity on our transfer QB situation there has been a lot of talk about the value of his playbook knowledge.

For those of you that coach or have played I would love to get your feedback on this issue.  Was our lack of playbook usage/knowledge mostly related to the QB position?  If not, give us an idea of the other position groups and what they will have to overcome to see the install of a reasonable playbook installation.
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woodrow hog call

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 08:07:02 pm »

The (some of them)receivers either didnít know the playbook or didnít care enough to run the complete routes.

Hicks may need to spend the first week just throwing to a spot and let the receivers understand thatís where you were supposed to be, get there next time if you want an opportunity for a reception.

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hogbbq

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 08:16:48 pm »

Thorough understanding of the playbook and the options build into a play is critical.  After that execution and effort will make of break the offense.  Defensively understanding scheme is just as important to prevent blown coverage or missed assignment.
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HoggieStyle

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 08:27:43 pm »

The QB isn't  the only one that has to have extensive knowledge of the playbook. If they aren't all on the same page, none of it matters. The ballyhooed Todd Graham video said as much.

LZH

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 08:30:28 pm »

If my understanding is in the neighborhood, alot of it is pre-snap reads.....for everyone.  Once the ball is snapped the QB has some reads but the play has mostly been decided already at "go".  I seriously don't pretend to know Morris' playbook, but making the game easier - when possible - is prime, for all involved, especially for the QB.  That's just OC 101.

I promise, quick ID of a defense and quick feet to your set point is much more valuable than only having a big arm and running a flashy forty time.

woodrow hog call

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 10:33:12 pm »

When you break down the RPO, ie, Run Pass Option, some folks get hung up the QB doing the running (which can be an aspect of it), but itís not the main component of it. The first Run Option is going to be the running back that is on one side of the QB, as you say LZH, sometimes the pre snap read tells the QB to pull the ball from the gut of the RB after the mesh and fire it to a wideout.

You will see that at times when it looks really hurried is because the QB thinks he caught the defense out of position and is trying to get the ball out before they adjust.

Crucial to that is the receivers reading the same thing as the QB so they know how to adjust their route and where to expect the ball. Thatís where the understanding of the playbook comes in. The days of a guy just learning the route tree and memorizing what route he runs on a given play call are long gone.

Then as you advance in the system the more post snap reads you can use, this is one aspect that Hicks will hopefully be able to bring to the table. You hear coaches and players alike make the statement that ďwe just want to take what the defense gives usĒ. Thatís because itís really hard for a defense to cover all of your receivers and take away the run too, IF, the QB can know who should get the ball and be able to get it to them.

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 10:43:30 pm »

If my understanding is in the neighborhood, alot of it is pre-snap reads.....for everyone.  Once the ball is snapped the QB has some reads but the play has mostly been decided already at "go".  I seriously don't pretend to know Morris' playbook, but making the game easier - when possible - is prime, for all involved, especially for the QB.  That's just OC 101.

I promise, quick ID of a defense and quick feet to your set point is much more valuable than only having a big arm and running a flashy forty time.

Having a good Oline, especially a good center, will make this thing work much smoother.   Having a good center is like having another QB on the field in a sense of speaking, he QB's so to speak the line and how many times did we see busted plays last season from bad center to QB exchanges?

Tick Hog

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 01:33:06 am »

The (some of them)receivers either didnít know the playbook or didnít care enough to run the complete routes.

Hicks may need to spend the first week just throwing to a spot and let the receivers understand thatís where you were supposed to be, get there next time if you want an opportunity for a reception.
Yep
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 05:39:29 am »

If my understanding is in the neighborhood, alot of it is pre-snap reads.....for everyone.  Once the ball is snapped the QB has some reads but the play has mostly been decided already at "go".  I seriously don't pretend to know Morris' playbook, but making the game easier - when possible - is prime, for all involved, especially for the QB.  That's just OC 101.

I promise, quick ID of a defense and quick feet to your set point is much more valuable than only having a big arm and running a flashy forty time.

That's important (pre-snap) no doubt, but that read that is made at the "mesh-point" (with a RB in the backfield) can make the difference between success or failure as well. All of these reads are important enough that a mis-read at any point could result in failure of the play.

I'm glad we have a seasoned QB who fully understands Morris' offense. Now let's just get everyone else on board.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 06:21:04 am by MuskogeeHogFan »
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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 05:44:14 am »

The (some of them)receivers either didnít know the playbook or didnít care enough to run the complete routes.

Hicks may need to spend the first week just throwing to a spot and let the receivers understand thatís where you were supposed to be, get there next time if you want an opportunity for a reception.

[/thread]
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 06:05:15 am »

I think what is being overlooked is not just Hicksí knowledge of the playbook but his familiarity with what Morris wants to do and Morrisí familiarity with what he actually can do. He is a known quantity. Morris doesnít have to guess whether or not he can execute certain elements of the offense and now he can begin, before the first practice even starts, to build his offensive game plan around what Hicks can actually do.

jhogg

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 07:28:05 am »

I think what is being overlooked is not just Hicksí knowledge of the playbook but his familiarity with what Morris wants to do and Morrisí familiarity with what he actually can do. He is a known quantity. Morris doesnít have to guess whether or not he can execute certain elements of the offense and now he can begin, before the first practice even starts, to build his offensive game plan around what Hicks can actually do.
100% correct
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sylamore

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 05:11:14 pm »

This is absolutely the best and most informative thread in a very long time.

#hammerdown

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 06:50:57 pm »

Love seeing the replies.  So, If I understand correctly, the receiver, the rb, and the qb are all reading the defense at the same time.

The rb is trying to determine if he is getting the ball, dropping to the flat, or blocking.

The WR is determining to break the route, go deep, block or find a pocket in the zone.

The Qb is determining pass or run and to who and what route.

All that happens in the final 15 seconds of the play clock and about 3 seconds after snap.

Sounds easy enough!

So what differentiates one play book from another in the spread?

I remember a lot of talk from announcers that Gusí offense is predetermined presnap.  Though it looks like rpo it really isnít.

Is it the position of the defender that all these players read?
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LZH

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 07:06:53 pm »

Love seeing the replies.  So, If I understand correctly, the receiver, the rb, and the qb are all reading the defense at the same time.

The rb is trying to determine if he is getting the ball, dropping to the flat, or blocking.

The WR is determining to break the route, go deep, block or find a pocket in the zone.

The Qb is determining pass or run and to who and what route.

All that happens in the final 15 seconds of the play clock and about 3 seconds after snap.

Sounds easy enough!

So what differentiates one play book from another in the spread?

I remember a lot of talk from announcers that Gusí offense is predetermined presnap.  Though it looks like rpo it really isnít.

Is it the position of the defender that all these players read?

I don't know if they're legal anymore...maybe they are and no one takes advantage of them.  But the dark or silver-reflective eye protection on facemasks should be on every QB's helmet.  If you are a DB/LB and you can't see his eyes, you're at a hell of a disadvantage.  Good QB's need DB's to see their eyes if they are good at looking off safeties/causing them to hesitate, etc.  But if you can't see a QB's eyes at all, especially in an offense like ours, you are being forced to eyeball damn-near everyone else....no gimmes.

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 11:12:54 am »

When you break down the RPO, ie, Run Pass Option, some folks get hung up the QB doing the running (which can be an aspect of it), but itís not the main component of it. The first Run Option is going to be the running back that is on one side of the QB, as you say LZH, sometimes the pre snap read tells the QB to pull the ball from the gut of the RB after the mesh and fire it to a wideout.

You will see that at times when it looks really hurried is because the QB thinks he caught the defense out of position and is trying to get the ball out before they adjust.

Crucial to that is the receivers reading the same thing as the QB so they know how to adjust their route and where to expect the ball. Thatís where the understanding of the playbook comes in. The days of a guy just learning the route tree and memorizing what route he runs on a given play call are long gone.

Then as you advance in the system the more post snap reads you can use, this is one aspect that Hicks will hopefully be able to bring to the table. You hear coaches and players alike make the statement that ďwe just want to take what the defense gives usĒ. Thatís because itís really hard for a defense to cover all of your receivers and take away the run too, IF, the QB can know who should get the ball and be able to get it to them.

The old Triple option rules apply!
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010HogFan

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 11:17:14 am »

someone posted the "Morris" Clemson playbook here a couple months ago. A huge .pdf file. I downloaded it just cause I thought it was neat. I can definitely see why you'd have the study the hell out of that thing just to be familiar with all the terms, and you'd have to practice it a whole lot just to halfway understand it, and you'd have to do even more to excel.

jhogg

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 11:53:18 am »

I think what is being overlooked is not just Hicksí knowledge of the playbook but his familiarity with what Morris wants to do and Morrisí familiarity with what he actually can do. He is a known quantity. Morris doesnít have to guess whether or not he can execute certain elements of the offense and now he can begin, before the first practice even starts, to build his offensive game plan around what Hicks can actually do.
I agree
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U-A Filthy Pig

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 12:07:40 pm »

Granted Clemson had stud players plugged in at all positions but if Clemsons true Fr QB and WR can run a very similar offense all the way to a National Championship it makes me think there may be something to the fact that the players did'nt "buy in". 

All of that said, I still think coaches don't get a complete free pass for last season.  It's their job to make sure everyone knows the playbook and to weed out cancers from the locker room.   Hopefully next season will be more enjoyable for all.

OnYourToes

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 04:00:31 pm »

The QB position is the most important position on the field because he needs to know what everyone is doing, sort of a go-guy if anyone has questions.  He also needs to know everyone's role so that he can make the right read, understand the Oline coverage and blocking scheme, decide what role the RB plays (PA, give, flat, wheel route, etc)

The overall offensive playbook knowledge works a bit differently; a play will be called to the lowest common denominator of understanding. 
If the QB knows everything through page 40
But the Oline only understands through page 30
The WR may understand through page 20
And the RB knows through page 35

A play will be called with instructions and responsibilities only up to page 20. 
Everyone MUST know their responsibilities on all plays called.     
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Pudgepork

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2019, 04:23:28 pm »

Much easier to run the offense if terrel owens is on your team. He demands the ball 8 out of 10 plays

Dude dont need no reads. Just throw the damn ball
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2019, 11:43:01 pm »

I think what is being overlooked is not just Hicksí knowledge of the playbook but his familiarity with what Morris wants to do and Morrisí familiarity with what he actually can do. He is a known quantity. Morris doesnít have to guess whether or not he can execute certain elements of the offense and now he can begin, before the first practice even starts, to build his offensive game plan around what Hicks can actually do.

It is a big advantage that Morris knows from 3 years of experience with Hicks in practice and games exactly what Hicks can do.

With Josh Jackson or a new QB he could learn from game tape whether he was a fit pretty much, but it takes seeing a guy in action to know exactly what he can do and what makes him tick.

Now unlike last year, he can proceed with installing more of the offense and with Hicks' help teach it to the other players on offense.
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hawgtime

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2019, 12:17:47 pm »

It is a big advantage that Morris knows from 3 years of experience with Hicks in practice and games exactly what Hicks can do.

With Josh Jackson or a new QB he could learn from game tape whether he was a fit pretty much, but it takes seeing a guy in action to know exactly what he can do and what makes him tick.

Now unlike last year, he can proceed with installing more of the offense and with Hicks' help teach it to the other players on offense.

When does Hicks get to start?  is he already on campus?
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Hawg Law 7

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2019, 03:24:48 pm »

When does Hicks get to start?  is he already on campus?

Yes, he's enrolled and is (hopefully) already putting in work with our WR/TEs.
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whippersnapper

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2019, 04:27:27 pm »

I volunteer my time for stats and film to help out a good coaching friend of mine in little ole Lincoln. For those that know anything of NWA football know that Lincoln is more known as 'stinkin' Lincoln, especially on the football field. The current HC (my friend) is in his 4th year of the program, year 1 we went 4-7 got the 5 seed and made playoffs for the 4th time in school history. We had 20 seniors out of 38 players. The next 2 seasons we went 3-7 just missing the playoffs by 1 conf win. This year we went 8-3 lost in the 1st round and beat prairie grove for the 1st time in 20 plus years. We had 9 seniors and the rest are juniors & sophs. My point being is that in a place like Lincoln there is literally no football tradition and a solid foundation had to be laid for us to finally get a winning season. It took longer then most wanted but the offense had to be trickle down over a few years so these kids could go no tempo like the coach wants. Also what helped the QB was a senior that has started at RB as a freshman and soph then the last 2 at QB. He was a big reason for their success as well considering he knew the offense almost like the back of his hand. You can only run what the kids truly know and can execute

Deerhunter

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2019, 05:45:12 pm »

Iím confused.  So yíall are saying it takes time for players to pick up the playbook so we should not expect to see positive accomplishments in year one?
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hawgtime

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2019, 03:34:13 pm »

Yes, he's enrolled and is (hopefully) already putting in work with our WR/TEs.

wish we could hear about these workouts and meetings that are not led by coaches!
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 01:22:05 am »

Iím confused.  So yíall are saying it takes time for players to pick up the playbook so we should not expect to see positive accomplishments in year one?

This offense is so different than Bert's for starters.. BB wanted to run the play clock all the way down to shorten the game, dominate TOP and wear the other team's defense down. We saw how that worked out.

Last season, it was obvious that we couldn't go fast and run this full offense. Part of it was the QBs didn't get it/weren't suited for it, part of it was QBs and WRs not on the same page, part of it was snaps being bounced to the QB disrupting the timing of the play and forcing the QB to take his eyes off of the defense..

It comes down to whether it would be better to install bits and pieces of the offense and incorporate the old offense to maybe win a couple more games or tear the whole thing down and start from scratch and try to run as much as we could of this offense.

If you tried to run a hybrid of the new and old, we MIGHT have won 2 more games, but learning the new offense would have been delayed which could hurt in the long run.

I liken it to Nolan's first year in 1986. He inherited a roster that had to practically count the pebbles on the ball before they were allowed to shoot. That roster had been recruited to play that way and in no way had the ability to play Nolan's fast style.

Nolan tried to slow things down, to play as Don Haskins had taught him at UTEP and went 12-16 on a team that had been to the NCAAT the year before and the fans were howling. "Who is this guy, where did he come from?" etc.

Eddie woulda done such and such, this guy can't coach, yada, yada.

The contrast in styles was about as drastic between Bielema and Morris. It wasn't until the trio of Mayberry, Day and Miller came in that the Hogs made the NCAAT under Nolan in the 3rd year. In their 3rd year on campus the team made the Final 4 the first time under Nolan.

We are going to need similar contributions from a few FR to get to a Bowl in 2019 along with a jump in the 2nd year for kids like Mike Woods and others, improvement from the O Line, better pass rush and fewer missed tackles and assignments.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2019, 03:40:51 am »

The (some of them)receivers either didnít know the playbook or didnít care enough to run the complete routes.

Hicks may need to spend the first week just throwing to a spot and let the receivers understand thatís where you were supposed to be, get there next time if you want an opportunity for a reception.

Peyton Manning was known to drill the receiver in the head if he missed the route. Maybe that should be the teaching tool.  ;D
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2019, 03:44:42 am »

That's important (pre-snap) no doubt, but that read that is made at the "mesh-point" (with a RB in the backfield) can make the difference between success or failure as well. All of these reads are important enough that a mis-read at any point could result in failure of the play.

I'm glad we have a seasoned QB who fully understands Morris' offense. Now let's just get everyone else on board.

Yep, Hicks torched a seasoned TCU D in Morris' last year. This gives me comfort that he should be able to adjust to the SEC speed quickly.
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Deerhunter

Re: Playbook Knowledge
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2019, 06:40:35 am »

This offense is so different than Bert's for starters.. BB wanted to run the play clock all the way down to shorten the game, dominate TOP and wear the other team's defense down. We saw how that worked out.

Last season, it was obvious that we couldn't go fast and run this full offense. Part of it was the QBs didn't get it/weren't suited for it, part of it was QBs and WRs not on the same page, part of it was snaps being bounced to the QB disrupting the timing of the play and forcing the QB to take his eyes off of the defense..

It comes down to whether it would be better to install bits and pieces of the offense and incorporate the old offense to maybe win a couple more games or tear the whole thing down and start from scratch and try to run as much as we could of this offense.

If you tried to run a hybrid of the new and old, we MIGHT have won 2 more games, but learning the new offense would have been delayed which could hurt in the long run.

I liken it to Nolan's first year in 1986. He inherited a roster that had to practically count the pebbles on the ball before they were allowed to shoot. That roster had been recruited to play that way and in no way had the ability to play Nolan's fast style.

Nolan tried to slow things down, to play as Don Haskins had taught him at UTEP and went 12-16 on a team that had been to the NCAAT the year before and the fans were howling. "Who is this guy, where did he come from?" etc.

Eddie woulda done such and such, this guy can't coach, yada, yada.

The contrast in styles was about as drastic between Bielema and Morris. It wasn't until the trio of Mayberry, Day and Miller came in that the Hogs made the NCAAT under Nolan in the 3rd year. In their 3rd year on campus the team made the Final 4 the first time under Nolan.

We are going to need similar contributions from a few FR to get to a Bowl in 2019 along with a jump in the 2nd year for kids like Mike Woods and others, improvement from the O Line, better pass rush and fewer missed tackles and assignments.

No Enos did not recruit to milk the clock.  Thatís one reason him and Pittman didnít see eye to eye according to some media.  He was recruiting a different kind of player. 

We as hog fans will make every excuse in the book.  Iíve read on here how Morris saved Daboís Job, , but Morrisí first season there they won 10 games.  So which is it?  Takes time to learn or is Clemson players just smarter.  I say Clemson is good because of Dabo not Morris.
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