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Peter Porker:
Some of you are as patient with Morris (because you were not with Bielema) as you are with Mike Anderson.

BannerMountainMan:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 10:12:06 am ---Some of you are as patient with Morris (because you were with Bielema)
as you are with Mike Anderson.

--- End quote ---
well Morris was 2-10 with Losses to NT and CSU, Ole Miss and Vandy. Mike was 18-14 with some good wins, but Morris can overcome that with a 6-6 year this year.

The_Iceman:
It is also much tougher to building a football roster than it is a basketball roster, especially one that has no depth or talent on the offensive line. Top that off with a lack of speed and playmaking ability all across the field.

Hogmatic:

--- Quote from: The_Iceman on January 13, 2019, 10:20:43 am ---It is also much tougher to building a football roster than it is a basketball roster, especially one that has no depth or talent on the offensive line. Top that off with a lack of speed and playmaking ability all across the field.

--- End quote ---

Football and Basketball are VERY different for turn arounds. 

A 13 man roster and 5 starting positions is easier to quickly improve than a 85 man roster with 22 starting positions.  Most basketball teams make dramatic improvement with 1 or 2 new guys out of 5 starters.  Look at what we are this year with Gafford and a bunch of first year players.  In the 8th year of Basketball under Mike we have EVERY right to respectfully expect more.   We don't need the fans to be shouted down for expecting more.  We need more discussion with respect about where the program is and what can be done to get back to a respected program.

All our problems with grades and problem children have been gone for most of 5 years because Mike has returned the program to a better place than when he took over.  He has stabilized the program and recruited his first bad aZZ class that is now hitting the wall. The Practice facility is built. The program is in good shape and ready to make a move up.  He's a good guy and doesn't cheat so that is why I want him to stay....but improve and change to today's game.  Yurachek can pressure for a change in scheme.

We fired a Football coach in his 5th year after he cleaned up the Petrino mess. He hit his ceiling and it needed to be dealt with.  An 85 man roster with 22 starting positions is hard to improve as quickly as a Basketball team..  It doesn't take that long to have true success in college basketball.   There is no need for arrogant bark downs that Mike can't be held accountable.



Dr. Starcs:
Good point. I think for people like me who have been in cmas corner up until the last couple of years, we donít want to go down that same route with someone we see warning signs with.

And I also think people were more willing to be patient with cma due to his connection and success with the state and university. Chad Morris is connected to Aggies and Gus. That doesnít make it right, Iím just putting possibilities out there. I do agree with the premise of your post though.

hobhog:
Renewing football tickets. Won't attend another basketball game until changes made. Be first year I haven't made some basketball games since 1978.

Mjs84:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 10:12:06 am ---Some of you are as patient with Morris (because you were with Bielema)
as you are with Mike Anderson.
[/quote

Morris is a first year coach and Mikes been here for 3 decades now.  Nice try.
--- End quote ---

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: Mjs84 on January 13, 2019, 11:24:15 am ---
--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 10:12:06 am ---Some of you are as patient with Morris (because you were with Bielema)
as you are with Mike Anderson.
[/quote

Morris is a first year coach and Mikes been here for 3 decades now.  Nice try.

--- End quote ---

No clue what point you are trying to make.
--- End quote ---

ShadowHawg:
Basketball is much harder. Your most talented players can leave after one season.

Football frosh don't come in thinking they are immediate star material so there are way fewer transfers in football.

Continuity is a very difficult thing to have in the modern era of college basketball.

ShadowHawg:

--- Quote from: hobhog on January 13, 2019, 11:18:22 am ---Renewing football tickets. Won't attend another basketball game until changes made. Be first year I haven't made some basketball games since 1978.

--- End quote ---

So you aren't even a basketball season ticket holder to begin with. Lol

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 11:14:42 am ---
And I also think people were more willing to be patient with cma due to

--- End quote ---

he's winning at a high rate in his conference.. it's that easy...

Dr. Starcs:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 11:42:07 am ---he's winning at a high rate in his conference.. it's that easy...

--- End quote ---

He didnít year one. Thatís the point op is making. Itís that simple.

Dr. Starcs:
Hereís another one - Mike Anderson has the same number of tournament wins at Arkansas as Bielema had bowl wins (and in less amount of time lol)

Truly sad how far weíve fallen in both sports.

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 11:48:13 am ---He didnít year one. Thatís the point op is making. Itís that simple.

--- End quote ---

VERY FEW schools make a move after 1 year on a coach that had a winning record..

Dr. Starcs:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 11:51:04 am ---VERY FEW schools make a move after 1 year on a coach that had a winning record..

--- End quote ---

Youíve changed your point. You said conference record earlier.
Op is saying he hopes people will give ccm the same amount of time to rebuild the football program. That is all

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 11:56:13 am ---Youíve changed your point. You said conference record earlier.
Op is saying he hopes people will give ccm the same amount of time to rebuild the football program. That is all

--- End quote ---

I was responding to your post, not his..

hobhog:

--- Quote from: ShadowHawg on January 13, 2019, 11:39:53 am ---So you aren't even a basketball season ticket holder to begin with. Lol

--- End quote ---

Nope. Too man weekday games and good seats are easy to get.

Dr. Starcs:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 11:57:15 am ---I was responding to your post, not his..

--- End quote ---

Yes, and you said ďwinning at a high rate in his conferenceĒ. That was not true after year 1. You canít judge ccm in comparison to cma at this point. We suck at both right now thatís undeniable.

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 12:01:35 pm --- We suck at both right now thatís undeniable.

--- End quote ---

And I disagree with you.... he won his first year on the job .. he had a winning conference record in year 2 and a winning SEC over all record after year 3... that's why people are patient.

Dr. Starcs:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 12:07:53 pm ---And I disagree with you.... he won his first year on the job .. he had a winning conference record in year 2 and a winning SEC over all record after year 3... that's why people are patient.

--- End quote ---

I guess I kinda understand what youíre saying, but to act like cma has earned 8+ years and his $3 million salary or whatever obscene number it is, isnít accurate IMO. He has the same number of tournament wins as Bielema had bowl wins in less amount of time. Lol

Our programs are dumpster fires right now.

Letsroll1200:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 12:24:14 pm ---I guess I kinda understand what youíre saying, but to act like cma has earned 8+ years and his $3 million salary or whatever obscene number it is, isnít accurate IMO. He has the same number of tournament wins as Bielema had bowl wins in less amount of time. Lol

Our programs are dumpster fires right now.

--- End quote ---

So you're comparing the NCAA tournament to a bowl game?

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 12:24:14 pm ---I guess I kinda understand what youíre saying, but to act like cma has earned 8+ years 


--- End quote ---

Again, I see it different.. You say earn his 3+ mil....worst case scenario IF he doesn't win another game this year he still has an avg of 20+ wins and better than .500 in the league.. only one other coach in this league can make that claim and we are not Kentucky.. he's building a good resume, imo.. but I do think he needs to improve in the NCAAT and not slip from the forward stability he has established.. we just see it differently..

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: Letsroll1200 on January 13, 2019, 12:32:39 pm ---So you're comparing the NCAA tournament to a bowl game?

--- End quote ---

Postseason is postseason and you may think it's unfair to compare, but so is conference records.

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 01:08:12 pm ---Postseason is postseason and you may think it's unfair to compare, but so is conference records.

--- End quote ---

So NIT counts... even less argument against CMA

Atlhogfan1:
Bielema was just a coach hired to do a job. No ties.  Nothing personal. When it wasnít working we moved on. Best for both of us.  This is what happens when you hire a coach just to do a job and it isnít personal.   

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 13, 2019, 01:11:07 pm ---Bielema was just a coach hired to do a job. No ties.  Nothing personal. When it wasnít working we moved on. Best for both of us.  This is what happens when you hire a coach just to do a job and it isnít personal.

--- End quote ---

Are you suggesting CMA and CBB are comparable?  You talk around things a lot now days, just trying to get your true meaning

Atlhogfan1:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 01:14:22 pm ---Are you suggesting CMA and CBB are comparable?  You talk around things a lot now days, just trying to get your true meaning

--- End quote ---

No.

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 13, 2019, 01:17:41 pm ---No.

--- End quote ---

10-4

Dr. Starcs:

--- Quote from: Letsroll1200 on January 13, 2019, 12:32:39 pm ---So you're comparing the NCAA tournament to a bowl game?

--- End quote ---

The entire premise of the op is comparing ccm to cma. Yes I know it is much more difficult statistically to make the NCAA tournament than it is to make a bowl game.

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 01:10:17 pm ---So NIT counts... even less argument against CMA

--- End quote ---

Sure. As long as 6-6 and Liberty Bowls are considered successful seasons.

Dominicanhog:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 02:03:30 pm ---Sure. As long as 6-6 and Liberty Bowls are considered successful seasons.

--- End quote ---

would be next year, don't you agree?

rtr:
Mike for all his flaws, won more consistently than Bielema. Morris inherited a dumpster fire caused by Bielema, he will turn this around. 

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: Dominicanhog on January 13, 2019, 02:32:40 pm ---would be next year, don't you agree?

--- End quote ---

Yes, but not in year 8.

Mic drop?

ErieHog:

--- Quote from: Dr. Starcs on January 13, 2019, 12:24:14 pm ---I guess I kinda understand what youíre saying, but to act like cma has earned 8+ years and his $3 million salary or whatever obscene number it is, isnít accurate IMO. He has the same number of tournament wins as Bielema had bowl wins in less amount of time. Lol

Our programs are dumpster fires right now.


--- End quote ---

We don't even pay particularly well.  We pay like a borderline Top 25 job-  $2.5M.  Depending on incentives and year, it can drop to  closer to paying in the mid 30s.   Assistant coaches aren't paid like they are at top jobs-- Arkansas pays about league average. 

As an aside, here's a fun chart that shows last year's RPI performance and assistant coaching salary pool.  Arkansas, as usual, outperforms expectations.


Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: ErieHog on January 13, 2019, 02:56:13 pm ---We don't even pay particularly well.  We pay like a borderline Top 25 job-  $2.5M.  Depending on incentives and year, it can drop to  closer to paying in the mid 30s.   Assistant coaches aren't paid like they are at top jobs-- Arkansas pays about league average. 

As an aside, here's a fun chart that shows last year's RPI performance and assistant coaching salary pool.  Arkansas, as usual, outperforms expectations.



--- End quote ---

Do that when he was first hired. He had a Top 10 salary.

ErieHog:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 03:06:47 pm ---Do that when he was first hired. He had a Top 10 salary.

--- End quote ---

It was never a Top 10 salary.  When he was hired, he was right at the fringe of the Top 20;  by the time of his extension, out of the Top 25;  we've been pretty consistent in what we're paying him vs. the rest of CBB.

Fan701:

--- Quote from: ErieHog on January 13, 2019, 02:56:13 pm ---We don't even pay particularly well.  We pay like a borderline Top 25 job-  $2.5M.  Depending on incentives and year, it can drop to  closer to paying in the mid 30s.   Assistant coaches aren't paid like they are at top jobs-- Arkansas pays about league average. 

As an aside, here's a fun chart that shows last year's RPI performance and assistant coaching salary pool.  Arkansas, as usual, outperforms expectations.



--- End quote ---

That's an interesting chart.  Aside from what it shows about Arkansas in particular, it shows, if you remove the two outliers, UL and UK, that there is really no relation between the salary pool and performance.

JenksHawg:

--- Quote from: ShadowHawg on January 13, 2019, 11:38:26 am ---Basketball is much harder. Your most talented players can leave after one season.

Football frosh don't come in thinking they are immediate star material so there are way fewer transfers in football.

Continuity is a very difficult thing to have in the modern era of college basketball.

--- End quote ---

Ha! Are you being serious?

And how many of those ďmost talented players can leave after one seasonĒ have we lost in his 8 years? Thatís right - zero.

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: ErieHog on January 13, 2019, 03:52:24 pm ---It was never a Top 10 salary.  When he was hired, he was right at the fringe of the Top 20;  by the time of his extension, out of the Top 25;  we've been pretty consistent in what we're paying him vs. the rest of CBB.

--- End quote ---

http://rockchalkblog.com/2011/03/26/missouri-is-better-off-without-anderson/

bkjbearcat:
MA and Burt are Sears and Blockbuster. What Arkansas needs is Amazon and Netflix.

Is CM Amazon, don't know. But he seems to be working hard on the recruiting trail going places Burt was too lazy to go.

Atlhogfan1:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 04:41:09 pm ---http://rockchalkblog.com/2011/03/26/missouri-is-better-off-without-anderson/

--- End quote ---

Tied for 10th. 

farfromgroovins:
Average salary..... average results.

ErieHog:

--- Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 13, 2019, 04:55:41 pm ---Tied for 10th. 

--- End quote ---

This is why its important to understand the difference between base, and base plus incentives.  You can argue about how achievable incentives should be for a hire, but Anderson's base was about $1.9M, and his base-base didn't hit $2.2 until the extension, which dropped his academic incentive to a bonus to only a maximum of $200K. 

And it fell out of that Top 10, before he had his first paycheck from Arkansas, when Lon Kruger was hired by OU  8 days later for a higher base salary;  Mark Turgeron was hired by Maryland- though they did some quarterly 'vesting salary' work arounds to drop the official number to $1.9, which was essentially the same as Anderson, pre-incentive.

And there were a pile of coaches with similar numbers, that could have easily exceeded him with very little in the way of achievement, as even your blog chart shows.

We shouldn't pretend like Arkansas is a special job because of pay.  It is what it is-- an above average gig, where if everything goes right, you can get paid like a second tier guy in your profession.

Peter Porker:

--- Quote from: ErieHog on January 13, 2019, 05:45:33 pm ---This is why its important to understand the difference between base, and base plus incentives.  You can argue about how achievable incentives should be for a hire, but Anderson's base was about $1.9M, and his base-base didn't hit $2.2 until the extension, which dropped his academic incentive to a bonus to only a maximum of $200K. 

And it fell out of that Top 10, before he had his first paycheck from Arkansas, when Lon Kruger was hired by OU  8 days later for a higher base salary;  Mark Turgeron was hired by Maryland- though they did some quarterly 'vesting salary' work arounds to drop the official number to $1.9, which was essentially the same as Anderson, pre-incentive.

And there were a pile of coaches with similar numbers, that could have easily exceeded him with very little in the way of achievement, as even your blog chart shows.

We shouldn't pretend like Arkansas is a special job because of pay.  It is what it is-- an above average gig, where if everything goes right, you can get paid like a second tier guy in your profession.

--- End quote ---

He agreed to, at the time, a Top 10 salary. So yeah,  it was a Top 10 salary. We have yet to see Top 10 results, or even Top 25 for that matter.

hobhog:

--- Quote from: Peter Porker on January 13, 2019, 06:00:19 pm ---He agreed to, at the time, a Top 10 salary. So yeah,  it was a Top 10 salary. We have yet to see Top 10 results, or even Top 25 for that matter.

--- End quote ---

$10 million per NCAA tournament win. Not bad gig if you can get it.

SONofHAM:

--- Quote from: BannerMountainMan on January 13, 2019, 10:18:32 am ---well Morris was 2-10 with Losses to NT and CSU, Ole Miss and Vandy. Mike was 18-14 with some good wins, but Morris can overcome that with a 6-6 year this year.

--- End quote ---
Terrible comparison. 

Mike inherited a highly ranked recruiting class with Young, Mickelson, Madden, and Abron.  Not to mention had Wade, Scott, and Powell when he took over in 2011. 

Morris inherited next to nothing from Bielema.

Letsroll1200:

--- Quote from: SONofHAM on January 14, 2019, 11:16:11 am ---Terrible comparison. 

Mike inherited a highly ranked recruiting class with Young, Mickelson, Madden, and Abron.  Not to mention had Wade, Scott, and Powell when he took over in 2011. 

Morris inherited next to nothing from Bielema.

--- End quote ---

Are any of these highly ranked guys in the NBA or the NBA G league? Did any of these highly rated guys and leftovers make ALL SEC? Let's be hones, Mickelson couldn't make it off the bench at Kansas. Mike did not inherit a solid program. This program was not stable when Mike became the coach.

SONofHAM:

--- Quote from: Letsroll1200 on January 14, 2019, 11:26:57 am ---Are any of these highly ranked guys in the NBA or the NBA G league? Did any of these highly rated guys and leftovers make ALL SEC? Let's be hones, Mickelson couldn't make it off the bench at Kansas. Mike did not inherit a solid program. This program was not stable when Mike became the coach.

--- End quote ---
And you honestly believe it is all on the players? Mike and our staff had nothing to do with the underacheiving?

Hoggish1:
What fan base isn't impatient?  One season is not all any coach ever gets even from the most impatient fan base, so I don't know the nature of your question.  I was patient with BB ó he got five years and was intoxicated with/in Fayetteville, so he crashed and burned on his own.

I'd give Mike a full eight years.  If I had my way that would be all he gets unless we get to the dance and make it past round two this year.  But I'm not the boss.

RazorPiggie:
You can turn a basketball program around in less than 3 years. Football not so much.

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