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Author Topic: Player Development  (Read 681 times)

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ParkHillHog

Player Development
« on: January 10, 2019, 10:17:48 am »

I wasn't down in the dumps about last night's game when we were down 15. Frustrated, sure, but not ready to tear the TV off the wall like in games past. Complacency had slowly started to creep in after Western Kentucky and had set up camp after Georgia Tech. But nothing tricks a Hog fan more than a turnover under the opponents bucket. We were making a run. The Bud Walton faithful came alive and suddenly it was a 2 point game. It was almost poetic justice when Adrio clanked the behind the backboard layup instead of passing it to a wide open Gafford. What else should we have expected?

Do y'all remember how excited we were about Adrio Bailey after the UNC game in 2017? What a young athletic stud he looked like in that game. I couldn't help but think about that after last nights debacle. He doesn't look any different now than he did in that game. This isn't me picking on Adrio, but you have to wonder what the Arkansas staff thinks about this? Where is the player development in this program? In the last 8 years, who is the player who came in as a lowly freshman and left as man 4 years later? Qualls, maybe Moses? Is that really it? The jump from year 1 to year 2 for Coty Clarke was impressive, but it's hard to count JUCO's. Barford's 3 pt FG% went up his second year, but i think we were all disappointed neither him or Macon made a significant jump.

The misses seem to be so much more than the hits; Trey Thompson, Anton Beard, Jacorey Williams, Anthlon Bell, Dustin Thomas, and Ky Madden. Who from that group are you proud of the development they had on campus? Jacorey Williams was super impressive for Middle Tennesse when he led them in the NCAA Tournament just as far as any Arkansas team has gone the past 20 years.

 Not to mention the guys who left campus before graduating. Just recently Darious Hall, (who would be making a huge difference on this team) Jimmy Whitt, Nick Babb, and just this past week Jordan Phillips.

Im just so ready to be proud to be an Arkansas fan again. Im sick of expecting the worse. It's blatantly obvious the staff doesn't know what to do with Gafford. Why should we expect anything else out of this young class of players when we've never seen good development from this staff?

mbgrulz

Re: Player Development
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 10:46:25 am »

My problem with the young team argument is that there is an ensinuation that when they are older they will be better. With the percentage of transfers, who honestly believes that this team will have more than 2-3 current sophomores and freshmen still around? Then, it will be the same Thing in 20-21.

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BannerMountainMan

Re: Player Development
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 10:58:51 am »

My problem with the young team argument is that there is an ensinuation that when they are older they will be better. With the percentage of transfers, who honestly believes that this team will have more than 2-3 current sophomores and freshmen still around? Then, it will be the same Thing in 20-21.
Harris, Joe, Jones, Sills, KES, and Chaney is our core and they’ll be around for awhile, we need to see that growth from them going into their soph, and junior years
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ParkHillHog

Re: Player Development
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 02:03:47 pm »

Harris, Joe, Jones, Sills, KES, and Chaney is our core and they’ll be around for awhile, we need to see that growth from them going into their soph, and junior years

I guess thats my point. We've got a bunch of young, semi- highly touted recruits on our roster. Getting the guys on campus hasn't totally been the issue.

But has Mike shown us that he can turn those guys into a winning program? He has missed out on some big time in-state recruits, but has also landed some.  If it's like anything we have seen from him in the past, we need a good JUCO crop or a NBA level in-state recruit to put us over the hump. His limited success has never come from development.

AlmaHog2011

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Re: Player Development
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 02:34:40 pm »

Better get a real strength coach we are really weak. It matters in basketball. We don't put on muscle and add strength. Bailey seems to be less athletic than when he came.

I'll admit to really liking Mike. But I am doubting his ability at this point to move us forward. Might be time to cut bait and start a rebuild. Looks like a rebuild anyways.
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thehill1414

Re: Player Development
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2019, 02:38:36 pm »

ParkHill - I think Thompson was much better as a jr and sr than he was as a freshman. Hannahs got better. Anthlon Bell was so much better his last two years than his first two. Portis was much better his sophomore year.  Manny Watkins. Qualls, Clarke, and Moses as mentioned. Durham. Jalen Harris vs his freshman year at NM.

You are leaving out a lot of players that improved. I agree with you that it is far from 100% perfect, but Mike has developed well at times. Problem is, we have huge roster turnover annually, either through graduation, injuries, or transfers, and some of his key misses in development are in the exact same position year in and year out "POWER FORWARD".

To your earlier point - Bailey's performance as a jr has been shocking to me. I thought he would be a great energy guy this year, grabbing lots of boards, taking charges, and scoring semi-regularly in double figures, and it just hasn't panned out to date.

Overall I'd say we are a game behind where I thought we would be before the season started.

hawgtime

Re: Player Development
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 03:13:49 pm »

I wasn't down in the dumps about last night's game when we were down 15. Frustrated, sure, but not ready to tear the TV off the wall like in games past. Complacency had slowly started to creep in after Western Kentucky and had set up camp after Georgia Tech. But nothing tricks a Hog fan more than a turnover under the opponents bucket. We were making a run. The Bud Walton faithful came alive and suddenly it was a 2 point game. It was almost poetic justice when Adrio clanked the behind the backboard layup instead of passing it to a wide open Gafford. What else should we have expected?

Do y'all remember how excited we were about Adrio Bailey after the UNC game in 2017? What a young athletic stud he looked like in that game. I couldn't help but think about that after last nights debacle. He doesn't look any different now than he did in that game. This isn't me picking on Adrio, but you have to wonder what the Arkansas staff thinks about this? Where is the player development in this program? In the last 8 years, who is the player who came in as a lowly freshman and left as man 4 years later? Qualls, maybe Moses? Is that really it? The jump from year 1 to year 2 for Coty Clarke was impressive, but it's hard to count JUCO's. Barford's 3 pt FG% went up his second year, but i think we were all disappointed neither him or Macon made a significant jump.

The misses seem to be so much more than the hits; Trey Thompson, Anton Beard, Jacorey Williams, Anthlon Bell, Dustin Thomas, and Ky Madden. Who from that group are you proud of the development they had on campus? Jacorey Williams was super impressive for Middle Tennesse when he led them in the NCAA Tournament just as far as any Arkansas team has gone the past 20 years.

 Not to mention the guys who left campus before graduating. Just recently Darious Hall, (who would be making a huge difference on this team) Jimmy Whitt, Nick Babb, and just this past week Jordan Phillips.

Im just so ready to be proud to be an Arkansas fan again. Im sick of expecting the worse. It's blatantly obvious the staff doesn't know what to do with Gafford. Why should we expect anything else out of this young class of players when we've never seen good development from this staff?



I also wonder why our players don't develop (improve) over the years. are all coaches help responsible for that? 

what gives?
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HogBreath

Re: Player Development
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 03:19:51 pm »


The misses seem to be so much more than the hits; Trey Thompson, Anton Beard, Jacorey Williams, Anthlon Bell, Dustin Thomas, and Ky Madden. Who from that group are you proud of the development they had on campus? Jacorey Williams was super impressive for Middle Tennesse when he led them in the NCAA Tournament just as far as any Arkansas team has gone the past 20 years.


I thought Jacorey Williams improved by leaps and bounds.


After he started playing for Kermit Davis.

ParkHillHog

Re: Player Development
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 03:47:56 pm »

ParkHill - I think Thompson was much better as a jr and sr than he was as a freshman. Hannahs got better. Anthlon Bell was so much better his last two years than his first two. Portis was much better his sophomore year.  Manny Watkins. Qualls, Clarke, and Moses as mentioned. Durham. Jalen Harris vs his freshman year at NM.

You are leaving out a lot of players that improved. I agree with you that it is far from 100% perfect, but Mike has developed well at times. Problem is, we have huge roster turnover annually, either through graduation, injuries, or transfers, and some of his key misses in development are in the exact same position year in and year out "POWER FORWARD".

To your earlier point - Bailey's performance as a jr has been shocking to me. I thought he would be a great energy guy this year, grabbing lots of boards, taking charges, and scoring semi-regularly in double figures, and it just hasn't panned out to date.

Overall I'd say we are a game behind where I thought we would be before the season started.

I agree that some players have marginally improved. Portis was high level talent regardless so I didn't add him to the list. Might want to check some stats on Trey, I feel like you might change your mind. Manny is one I should've added.

It seems like the biggest failure of the current staff is not being able to turn the high 3 star and 4 star recruits into SEC caliber players. When we get a guy like that on campus they are more likely to transfer out (Whitt, Babb, Hall) or never get much better (Beard, Thompson, Madden) than they are to compete at an NCAA Tournament level.

Without transfers, JUCO or NBA level in- state guys, Mike's record is abysmal.

BannerMountainMan

Re: Player Development
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 03:56:19 pm »

Can’t get better if you leave after the first year, they leave thinking they should’ve started their freshman year knowing they will play a lot the next few years, kids get butthurt easily.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Player Development
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 05:00:48 pm »

I agree that some players have marginally improved. Portis was high level talent regardless so I didn't add him to the list. Might want to check some stats on Trey, I feel like you might change your mind. Manny is one I should've added.

It seems like the biggest failure of the current staff is not being able to turn the high 3 star and 4 star recruits into SEC caliber players. When we get a guy like that on campus they are more likely to transfer out (Whitt, Babb, Hall) or never get much better (Beard, Thompson, Madden) than they are to compete at an NCAA Tournament level.

Without transfers, JUCO or NBA level in- state guys, Mike's record is abysmal.

Ky actually got better. He was real solid as a senior.
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mountainhog

Re: Player Development
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 05:16:42 pm »

Plauers get better with experience naturally and just by becoming older.  I see no one improving by added coaching and sometimes they develop bad habits and regress.  I never thought moses kingsley improved much.

People who think our coaches are great talent developers, well I don't see it.  Jmo.
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BannerMountainMan

Re: Player Development
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 05:19:26 pm »

Plauers get better with experience naturally and just by becoming older.  I see no one improving by added coaching and sometimes they develop bad habits and regress.  I never thought moses kingsley improved much.

People who think our coaches are great talent developers, well I don't see it.  Jmo.
You never thought Moses Kingsley improved much???? You got to be joking right
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mountainhog

Re: Player Development
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 05:23:45 pm »

No not a joke, I guess what I should have said was he didnt improve much from coaching.

HogBreath

Re: Player Development
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 06:39:08 pm »

No not a joke, I guess what I should have said was he didnt improve much from coaching.
Moses was asked during his junior year what he credited his great season to,  compared to his first two seasons, he replied playing time.
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