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Author Topic: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)  (Read 2792 times)

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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2019, 11:27:21 am »

I understand how 2006 and 2007 turned out like they did, although I do NOT agree with it.

First, the quarterback thing…when Troy Smith was on the Heisman ballot---
The angle from the press was pretty much "he's the number one player on the number one team." Combine that with the QB-voting trend, and Smith was probably an easy vote.
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.
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Then came Tim Tebow. Like Smith, he was on a good* team—the defending National Champion. Lots of talent everywhere, with fleet running backs and receivers to spread the field, allowing Tebow to make his little runs up the middle. I will give him credit for this—his scoring stats. Those numbers were what won the trophy for him.

The TEAM part of Heisman voting has suckered a lot of voters in, and has for years. Their laziness was most apparent in Troy Smith's case. All the voters figured No. 1 Ohio State would win their bowl, and wrap up Smith's Heisman season with a nice little bow. Problem was The OSU got their butts kicked in the bowl game, and Smith was lame.

On the flip side, I doubt there was any voter regret over Tebow's Heisman win. While as you pointed out, that 2007 season wasn't great, but Florida won the NC the next year (Tebow's rah rah speech). In retrospect, no way McFadden could win in the court, or Heisman contest, of public opinion.

If there's any fault on our side, DMac did his part, the problem was that OUR TEAM wasn't better. I sure would like a do-over in 2006.

Rocket23

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2019, 01:50:43 pm »

Out of all of Tebow’s rushing touchdowns, I believe it was, ZERO were more than five yards out.

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2019, 04:51:12 pm »

DMAC is still running it on the Ole Ball Coach. What a travesty!!

Tebow's two-yard TD runs are apparently more impressive to some than to me.

Peyton Manning was totally cheated out the Heisman.

I have no interest in the bogus award.
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carolinahogger

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2019, 05:14:44 pm »

It is the 1964 and 1965 football season all over again. In 1964 Arkansas was undefeated including a Cotton Bowl victory over an undefeated Nebraska team. Bama was undefeated also and lost to Texas (whom Arkansas beat) in the Orange Bowl, but the polls ended after the regular season and of course Alabama was awarded the NC.

1965 they change the rules and begin including bowl games. Of course Arkansas and Alabama were both undefeated going into their bowl games and of course Arkansas loses the bowl game to LSU and Alabama is again awarded the NC.

This is what it means to be a Razorback fan.
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Mjs84

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2019, 05:32:58 pm »

The good thing about Dmac is he would have rather been a Hog than a hiesman trophy winner.  Not enough in state kids who love razorbacks as much as we do.

Occams Razorback

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2019, 07:59:14 pm »

This is one of the reasons that the University should pimp the Walter Camp award instead of the Heisman - similarly, it’s awarded to the best player in college football

DMac won it

For some reason though, when listing awards, the Razorback PR folks leave it completely off the list

Sow Lancelot

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2019, 07:07:47 pm »

Out of all of Tebow’s rushing touchdowns, I believe it was, ZERO were more than five yards out.
I remember being so pissed that I watched a video compilation of all Tebow’s touchdowns that year. If memory serves me well (and that’s a BIG stretch), it seems he had one td of 21 yards and one of 17 yards. All the others were 5 or less.
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Rambo Hog

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2019, 02:28:16 pm »

Houston Nutt's horrible play calling back in 2007 was what  really hurt DMAC in a couple of games or he would won it running away. Does anybody remember the horrible play calling in the Auburn game where DMAC only had 45 yards or the Ole Miss game where where DMAC could of had 4 rushing TDs easily instead of zero  but  Houston Nutt would take DMAC out of the redzone to put in Hillis or Felix Jones .I remember people thought that  Payton Hillis must of threatened to quit the team again before the Ole Miss game  and Houston Nutt made a point to get him the ball  on random pass pass plays in that game especially in the redzone. But the embarrassing game plan that Houston Nut had and not having his team prepared   for the Tennessee game  with Casey Dick 2 interceptions and losing by 21  overshadow the South Carolina game from the week before.

hog of steele

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2019, 02:29:47 pm »

Tebow was incredible, but he was a QB who led his team to a 3rd place finish in the East. McFadden should have two Heismans on his mantle

Tebow wasn't eligible for the one he won. We were told the year before that voters wouldn't vote for a sophomore.
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jchill

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2019, 04:02:09 pm »

Not just McFadden, either.
One of my favorites is 1991. The year Marshall Faulk was on every highlight reel, every week.
But he played for San Diego St.
The Hypes-man Trophy voters, they who make up their own criteria, gave it to the QB of a highly rated team. Sound familiar?
Oh, my bad. I thought the criteria was the 'outstanding player in college football'. I don't recall reading you had to play QB for a highly rated team. Gee, I thought it was an individual award, and your team had nothing to do with it.
So, the voters gave the Hypes-man Trophy in 1991 to the Miami Hurricanes.
Accepting on behalf of Miami was their QB, Gino Toretta.

Another travesty. Torretta over Marshall Faulk.

I thought Christian Mccaffrey got cheated out of the Heisman during his sophomore year. Derrick Henry had an incredible year, but thought Christian had a better all-around game and meant more to his football. Bama still would have an national title without Henry.
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SooieGeneris

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2019, 08:11:57 pm »

I can understand if Lil' Stevie Superior only voted QBs 1st, but he voted all 5 top spots to QBs every time? I find that hard to believe..

The Heisman has almost always been about STATS. DMac had great stats, Troy Smith not so much, he was a "game manager" QB, but that year they chose not to go with the better stats.

Then they returned to stats and as has been mentioned in this thread earlier, the old "sophs can't win the Hypes-man" thing only to give it to a soph the next year..

Spurrier has the most punchable face..
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BroyledNutts

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2019, 09:37:36 pm »

Not just McFadden, either.
One of my favorites is 1991. The year Marshall Faulk was on every highlight reel, every week.
But he played for San Diego St.
The Hypes-man Trophy voters, they who make up their own criteria, gave it to the QB of a highly rated team. Sound familiar?
Oh, my bad. I thought the criteria was the 'outstanding player in college football'. I don't recall reading you had to play QB for a highly rated team. Gee, I thought it was an individual award, and your team had nothing to do with it.
So, the voters gave the Hypes-man Trophy in 1991 to the Miami Hurricanes.
Accepting on behalf of Miami was their QB, Gino Toretta.

Another travesty. Torretta over Marshall Faulk.

Exactly ... And never forget that Mark May, on ESPN, during a Hypesman Trophy preview show, stated that Arkansas "was not a Heisman school." Therefore, no matter how good Dmac was, he was automatically out of the running on many voting ballots simply because he didn't go to the right school.
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LZH

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2019, 10:25:16 am »

1.  Remember when Nutt had a GA or someone filling out his Top 25 lists, and wasn't it Carolina (who was close to the top ten at the time) that "he" completely left off his ballot one week?  Coincidence?....payback is a bitch?

2.  I wonder, if DMac HAD won the Heisman in 2006 and/or 2007, and in a few years KJ has ridiculous numbers and we somehow end up in the playoff discussion which makes him a Heisman frontrunner......and, say, another player from Notre Dame or USC or Alabama or whoever is neck-and-neck with KJ for consideration - how many on here would be OK if DMac totally left the other player completely off his ballot and voted KJ #1?  Just a wild what if.

3.  I think Nutt (and the MSM by association) is just as responsible for Dmac not winning in 2007 as Tebow's stats are responsible for him taking the trophy home.  We lost to Alabama in a game we probably should have won, we totally laid an egg in RRS against Kentucky and Auburn, then go to Knoxville and looked like we hadn't practiced all year.  If we win two, maybe just one, of those games I think he wins.  Same could be said for 2006, really.  Dmac had 42 carries in the LSU and Florida games (21 each)....we lost those games by a total of 15 points.  How many of us would have put the ball in DMac's hands 10-12 more times in those games?.....run, wildcat, direct snap, pass, etc.
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Superhog1959

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2019, 10:30:16 am »

Exactly ... And never forget that Mark May, on ESPN, during a Hypesman Trophy preview show, stated that Arkansas "was not a Heisman school." Therefore, no matter how good Dmac was, he was automatically out of the running on many voting ballots simply because he didn't go to the right school.
This is exactly why I don't look at the Heisman as going to the best player. In the older days it was more legitimate, now days its more of a popularity contest between a select few schools. Look at how many players win it, then flop in the NFL. If it were really about the best players, there would be many other positions awarded the trophy.
Go to any NFL roster and look at the players stats, where they came from, how long they have been in the league. Many MVPs of major games, numerous Pro Bowl selections. If for 1 year you are the greatest player in college, you should go to the NFL and be successful. At least to the point that the NFL team has talent. Barring tragedy or injury. 
DMAC was the most explosive, talented running back we have ever had. Had he gone to a decent team in the NFL, could very well have had a HOF career. He was the best those years and should have won the Heisman at least 1 of them.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2019, 09:30:55 pm »

This is exactly why I don't look at the Heisman as going to the best player. In the older days it was more legitimate, now days its more of a popularity contest between a select few schools. Look at how many players win it, then flop in the NFL. If it were really about the best players, there would be many other positions awarded the trophy.
Go to any NFL roster and look at the players stats, where they came from, how long they have been in the league. Many MVPs of major games, numerous Pro Bowl selections. If for 1 year you are the greatest player in college, you should go to the NFL and be successful. At least to the point that the NFL team has talent. Barring tragedy or injury. 
DMAC was the most explosive, talented running back we have ever had. Had he gone to a decent team in the NFL, could very well have had a HOF career. He was the best those years and should have won the Heisman at least 1 of them.
I'm in total agreement with everyone, that DMac should have won in 2006...and could have won in 2007.
I agree that if a player is truly great, they'll show that in the pros too.
HOWEVER...the fact that DMac didn't have a pro career to rival his college career could be used against us by the Mark Mays of the world and 'anti-' people.
I totally agree that playing for the Raiders was like a kiss of death. As more proof, I would point out how different Amari Cooper looked for Dallas this year after leaving a hapless Oakland team where he looked done.

But just sayin'....DMac didn't have a great pro career either, so you're making your own argument against DMac winning the Heisman, skeptics would say.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2019, 10:34:39 pm »

Tebow and his 21 TD rushes of 1 yard
yeah Tommy Tuberville spoke of this...Tubs said that McFadden was clearly the best football player in the country but that people got caught up in the number of TD's that Tebow scored...Anyone think Tebow scores on an 80 yd run on USC-jr ?


I remember the Heisman Presentation as though it were last night. Tebow sitting next to Darren. And when the announcement was made, as hard as he tried, Darren couldn't hold the disappointment (and SCREWING) that he felt off of his face. Darren knew deep down inside that he was the better player but the media's "White Knight" had won the coveted prize Darren sought. And Darren wanted that thing for the state of Arkansas almost as much as he wanted it for himself. The kid then, the man now and #5 forever will always be the greatest Hog ever to wear the cardinal and white.

ad: Nothing against Rakeem Boyd, he's a very good SEC player, but the cardinal and white #5 should have never been issued to him, nor anyone else, ever.

ronmahony

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2019, 01:48:32 pm »

Regardless of their record, I totally get Tebow winning it.  As you said, he was incredible.

McFadden got fricking screwed his sophomore year.  And there was the whole, "We can't give the heisman to a Sophomore" thing.  And then they gave it to one the next year.  And classification hasn't been an issue since.



That’s been a while but wasn’t Tebow the sophomore they chose or was it the OHS guy?
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ronmahony

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2019, 02:39:32 pm »

I totally agree with McFadden getting snubbed for Troy Smith. But Tebow was absolutely ridiculous that year and did something that had never been done before with 20 passing and rushing td’s. Also I believe Arkansas finished 3rd in the west that year didn’t they?

We finished 3rd, best I can recollect, and my memory ain’t what it used to be, but seems like we finished 3rd for several reasons, Hillis got hurt and he was our best returner, we got hosed several times by the great SEC officials!
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2019, 05:06:32 pm »

I'm in total agreement with everyone, that DMac should have won in 2006...and could have won in 2007.
I agree that if a player is truly great, they'll show that in the pros too.
HOWEVER...the fact that DMac didn't have a pro career to rival his college career could be used against us by the Mark Mays of the world and 'anti-' people.
I totally agree that playing for the Raiders was like a kiss of death. As more proof, I would point out how different Amari Cooper looked for Dallas this year after leaving a hapless Oakland team where he looked done.

But just sayin'....DMac didn't have a great pro career either, so you're making your own argument against DMac winning the Heisman, skeptics would say.

Sorry, but the Heisman is a college award.  Many players that have won the Heisman have had way worse careers than what McFadden had. I have never seen any analyst talk about someone in college football not deserving because of what they did in the nfl.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #69 on: Today at 01:51:54 am »

Sorry, but the Heisman is a college award.  Many players that have won the Heisman have had way worse careers than what McFadden had. I have never seen any analyst talk about someone in college football not deserving because of what they did in the nfl.
Like Troy Smith and Tim Tebow ?
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ThisTeetsTaken

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #70 on: Today at 07:40:14 am »

Yes, it was a major talking point back then.

And I really feel like he was only snubbed in '07.  Troy Smith had no business winning it over him.  Shouldn't have even been close.
Yep no way Smith deserved it over D-Dawg.  I have no problem with Tebow winning it the next year.  He set the record for TD’s in a season I believe.
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WizardofhOgZ

Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #71 on: Today at 02:31:55 pm »

It is the 1964 and 1965 football season all over again. In 1964 Arkansas was undefeated including a Cotton Bowl victory over an undefeated Nebraska team. Bama was undefeated also and lost to Texas (whom Arkansas beat) in the Orange Bowl, but the polls ended after the regular season and of course Alabama was awarded the NC.

1965 they change the rules and begin including bowl games. Of course Arkansas and Alabama were both undefeated going into their bowl games and of course Arkansas loses the bowl game to LSU and Alabama is again awarded the NC..

1) Arkansas DID win the National Championship in 1964.  Alabama also won "some" recognition as National Champions that same year.  There was NO "official" NC at that time; there were many that people recognized, but ALL of them were MYTHICAL.  At that time, if you looked in the official NCAA record book, it had NO recognition of a "Champion" for Division 1 (what we now call "FBS").  That first changed with the BCS.  Our Championship, coming as it did, after ALL the games had been played, is consistently viewed as the most legitimate claim by college football historians who actually research these things.

2) You're partially right about 1965, but have some factual errors.  Arkansas was one of 3 undefeated teams after the 1965 regular season - the others were Michigan State and Nebraska.  Alabama had a loss (a controversial one, to Georgia) and a tie.  As the "loss" was discounted by many members of the voters, Alabama was ranked 4th headed into the Bowls.  Arkansas, Nebraska and Michigan State ALL lost their Bowl games (Nebraska's loss was to Alabama), opening the way for the 4th ranked Tide to get the post-Bowl vote. 

I find it most interesting to see Bammers vigorously defend their 1965 crown, while totally discounting Arkansas' claim just the year before on the same sort of logic.  Only, our claim is MUCH more definitive than theirs.  They say "the top 3 lost, and Bama was 4th and won their Bowl, so it makes sense that they be #1".  That's plausible, and I don't really have a problem with it.  But even with the results as they were, there were three 10-1 teams compared to Bama's 9-1-1 record.  So it wasn't like they were undefeated and nobody else was.  Or course, the latter is exactly what happened in 1964, where Alabama's loss (to a Texas team we had beaten, to give them their only loss of the year) left Arkansas as the only undefeated team after the Bowls.

Their next refrain - "well, that's the way it was in those days",  as if we are talking about eras 20-30 years apart.  No - these things happened in consecutive years.  The public's perception was no different from one year to the next, with regard to how Bowls factored in.  It is only that the AP and UPI were more than a decade late to understanding that and changing their polls to include a post-Bowl vote (thanks largely to Notre Dame and their no-Bowl policy).  So, I understand that Alabama was and will always be AP and UPI "Champions" for 1964.  I also know that those polls were obviously flawed and they admitted as much by changing the next year.  So they have their recognition, and we have ours.  Ours is, by FAR, the more valid. 

The only thing about it that stinks is that people who really don't understand all of this, as I do (having lived through it first hand), just see that Alabama is listed as 1964 AP champion and - without knowing ANYTHING else - they assume that claim is the most valid.  Why?  Because, far and away, AP HAS been "the" authority (until the CFP rankings) every since they started the post-Bowl vote; and that covers the ENTIRE consciousness of well over 90 percent of college football fans today.  They have no concept of various "mythical" champions and the relative validity of each claim.  In fact, a LOT of off-season dialogue about college football in the pre-BCS era was around who REALLY was the Champion in years where there were split votes.  And that happened more than you might think.

Good reading on this subject: 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/10-controversial-champions-college-football-history/

"At Alabama, Bryant was able to take advantage of the changing times and attitude after the 1964 season, when Arkansas posted four less-than inspiring wins before shocking No. 1 Texas and then going on an epic roll, outscoring the final five opponents 116-0.

The Associated Press ranked only 10 teams at the time, so coming off a 5-5 year Arkansas was essentially a preseason afterthought. Even after defeating the Longhorns, the Razorbacks were still behind the Crimson Tide in the polls, and when both finished the regular season it was: 1. Alabama; 2. Arkansas. However, the Crimson Tide lost 21-17 to Texas in the first Orange Bowl played under the lights (which came down to a controversial call at the end of the game) while the Razorbacks defeated No. 6 Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl, 10-7.

Ranking services waiting until after the bowls to declare their champions, including the Football Writers Association of America and the Helms Athletic Foundation, had Arkansas No. 1 instead of Alabama. Consequently, the Associated Press changed its procedure the following year."
[/color]


https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/1/8/16849228/national-championships-by-year-team-most-list-count


https://deadspin.com/5975168/the-definitive-list-of-actual-no-bull-college-football-national-champions-or-why-alabama-is-a-liar


http://tiptop25.com/national_champions.html


http://www.tiptop25.com/fixing1964.html



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Tejano Jawg

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Re: DMAC Heisman Snub (07-08)
« Reply #72 on: Today at 03:56:39 pm »

Good work, as always, Wiz.
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