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Author Topic: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them  (Read 1456 times)

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incHOGnito

This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« on: January 06, 2019, 08:16:07 pm »

He decided last night for the first time in a while to be aggressive on every possession. They couldnít contain him and keep him out of the paint and it opened things up for the offense. At one point he had 10 points and 8 assists.

He is the first true point guard we have had since Kareem Reid and can lead this team beyond its potential.

hawg66

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 08:45:38 pm »

He also played 36 minutes, which probably had something to do with his uncharacteristic misses at the free throw line late. He wonít be able to stay effective if heís continually playing maximum minutes, IMO
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Hog Fan...DOH!

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 08:59:25 pm »

He is the first true point guard we have had since Kareem Reid and can lead this team beyond its potential.

Arkansas has had other point guards since Kareem Reid.  Really, really good ones.  This is yet another example of Arkansas fan amnesia/PTSD. 

The team shot about 38% last night.  If they shot reasonably well, like 45%, that game is a blowout.  If they shot FT at a 65% clip, it's comfortable at the end. 

My point is, Harris can be a great player, but the guys need to be more consistent hitting open looks.  The shots are definitely there.  They don't need to "play beyond" their potential, just to their potential. 

hawg66

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 09:06:42 pm »

Their potential is pretty high but it may take a while to get there because of their youth. As long as people give them the time it should be a fun team to watch.

IronMountainHog

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 09:11:03 pm »

Arkansas has had other point guards since Kareem Reid.  Really, really good ones.  This is yet another example of Arkansas fan amnesia/PTSD. 

The team shot about 38% last night.  If they shot reasonably well, like 45%, that game is a blowout.  If they shot FT at a 65% clip, it's comfortable at the end. 

My point is, Harris can be a great player, but the guys need to be more consistent hitting open looks.  The shots are definitely there.  They don't need to "play beyond" their potential, just to their potential. 
Name them.
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HogBreath

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Razors85

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 09:30:48 pm »

Name them.

Beverley
Fortson
Did Joe run point?

That's all I've got
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labb

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 09:33:47 pm »

I think that this team goes a far as their shot making takes them. Joe, Jones, Sills, Simpson and maybe Phillips. If two of those are knocking down the open shots we will always be a tough out for anyone. As to the freethrow shooting,,,,we had Joe and Harris at the line and both are at about 75% and they missed...That is the game of basketball. Odds say that will not generally happen.
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IronMountainHog

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 09:36:33 pm »

Durham.

Had a good assist to turnover ratio and dished out plenty of assists, however a 6.2 ppg isnít good or great for a point guard in my opinion.
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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 10:16:28 pm »

Name them.

Are you serious?  The OP said "He is the first true point guard we have had since Kareem Reid".  We're talking 20 years of basketball. 

TJ Cleveland, Jannero Pargo, Gary Irvin, Courtney Fortson, Jabril Durham: all were true PGs.  All since Kareem Reid.  Other "true" PGs include Eric Ferguson, Dontell Jefferson, and Ky Madden.

Of COURSE some of those guys were better than others.  But we've had a ton of guys that could drive and dish.  Some way better than others.
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Nickle-Pig

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 10:24:19 pm »

He is impressive but it is a team sport.
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sickboy

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 10:26:21 pm »

Name them.

Janero Pargo, Patrick Beverly, Courtney Fortson, BJ Young, Ky Madden, Jabril Durham and Daryl Macon were all good PGs for Arkansas. 

Joe Johnson and Ronnie Brewer both played the point well too, even though they were 2/3 type guys.

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 10:38:15 pm »

I think that this team goes a far as their shot making takes them. Joe, Jones, Sills, Simpson and maybe Phillips. If two of those are knocking down the open shots we will always be a tough out for anyone. As to the freethrow shooting,,,,we had Joe and Harris at the line and both are at about 75% and they missed...That is the game of basketball. Odds say that will not generally happen.


I think that's right.  Coach needed Harris out there the whole game at aTm to make sure the ball kept moving first time on the road--especially in a dead arena like that.  Those freshmen forget sometimes, but they'll get there.  But even now, man, this team gets a ton of good looks.
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razorback1829

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 10:59:58 pm »

12th in the nation in team assists. One of the most underrated stats of this team. They work to get good shots. Will make the extra pass for the great shot. Harris is the catalyst.

incHOGnito

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 11:08:14 pm »

Are you serious?  The OP said "He is the first true point guard we have had since Kareem Reid".  We're talking 20 years of basketball. 

TJ Cleveland, Jannero Pargo, Gary Irvin, Courtney Fortson, Jabril Durham: all were true PGs.  All since Kareem Reid.  Other "true" PGs include Eric Ferguson, Dontell Jefferson, and Ky Madden.

Of COURSE some of those guys were better than others.  But we've had a ton of guys that could drive and dish.  Some way better than others.

Iíll give you Fortson, Durham, and Irvin, but the rest of the guys you name only prove my point. Those other guys werenít true point guards, they were just the best option to fill that role. Harris is a facilitator first and hopefully, he can become the leader and floor general like Beck was.
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sickboy

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 11:29:57 pm »

Iíll give you Fortson, Durham, and Irvin, but the rest of the guys you name only prove my point. Those other guys werenít true point guards, they were just the best option to fill that role. Harris is a facilitator first and hopefully, he can become the leader and floor general like Beck was.

What is your definition of "true" point guards? Pargo and Cleveland were both point guards their entire high school and community college careers and recruited as point guards. TJ Cleveland won all sorts of awards as a PG in Alabama. Is it the ability to distribute, not just score? Because Cleveland led the team in assists two of his four years while he was here. Janero Pargo led the team in assists one of his two years here. His first year on campus, TJ Cleveland led the team, but he was second in assists that year.

I played point guard my entire life. And to these eyes, those two guys are point guards.
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Pulled(PP)pork

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 12:38:30 am »

Arkansas has had other point guards since Kareem Reid.  Really, really good ones.  This is yet another example of Arkansas fan amnesia/PTSD. 

The team shot about 38% last night.  If they shot reasonably well, like 45%, that game is a blowout.  If they shot FT at a 65% clip, it's comfortable at the end. 

My point is, Harris can be a great player, but the guys need to be more consistent hitting open looks.  The shots are definitely there.  They don't need to "play beyond" their potential, just to their potential.
they average 65% at the line, and there have been several uncomfortable games so far
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MakingPlays

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 02:05:16 am »

What is your definition of "true" point guards? Pargo and Cleveland were both point guards their entire high school and community college careers and recruited as point guards. TJ Cleveland won all sorts of awards as a PG in Alabama. Is it the ability to distribute, not just score? Because Cleveland led the team in assists two of his four years while he was here. Janero Pargo led the team in assists one of his two years here. His first year on campus, TJ Cleveland led the team, but he was second in assists that year.

I played point guard my entire life. And to these eyes, those two guys are point guards.

I think some of you guys may have took what the OP said too literal.  Sure  those guys you named played the PG position, that's not what he meant though.

What I took away from what he meant by true PG is a guy that can control the pace of the game, get others involved, and is the on floor leader/general.  And I tend to agree with him, the hogs of this generation I would put in that category would be Kareem Reid, Jabril Durham, Jalen Harris, and I would say honorable mention to Courtney Fortson as well.

If you watch those guys play it's different than say a TJ Cleveland or Jannero Pargo or any of those other guys you mentioned, the guys I mentioned have the ability to control the pace of the game, they direct traffic, they get people in the right spots.  You mentioned Cleveland, he's a career 2 APG guy, he was known more for his defense than his passing ability, we're talking about guys that can dominate a game just with their ball distribution alone and get you 7-10 APG on most nights, to me that's a true PG, and what I think the OP was trying to say.

Foshodo

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 02:28:14 am »

Iíll give you Fortson, Durham, and Irvin, but the rest of the guys you name only prove my point. Those other guys werenít true point guards, they were just the best option to fill that role. Harris is a facilitator first and hopefully, he can become the leader and floor general like Beck was.

Dontell Jefferson made it to the NBA!
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Pulled(PP)pork

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2019, 02:43:00 am »

I think some of you guys may have took what the OP said too literal.  Sure  those guys you named played the PG position, that's not what he meant though.

What I took away from what he meant by true PG is a guy that can control the pace of the game, get others involved, and is the on floor leader/general.  And I tend to agree with him, the hogs of this generation I would put in that category would be Kareem Reid, Jabril Durham, Jalen Harris, and I would say honorable mention to Courtney Fortson as well.

If you watch those guys play it's different than say a TJ Cleveland or Jannero Pargo or any of those other guys you mentioned, the guys I mentioned have the ability to control the pace of the game, they direct traffic, they get people in the right spots.  You mentioned Cleveland, he's a career 2 APG guy, he was known more for his defense than his passing ability, we're talking about guys that can dominate a game just with their ball distribution alone and get you 7-10 APG on most nights, to me that's a true PG, and what I think the OP was trying to say.
a Corey Beck, if you will
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IronMountainHog

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2019, 06:42:47 am »

I think some of you guys may have took what the OP said too literal.  Sure  those guys you named played the PG position, that's not what he meant though.

What I took away from what he meant by true PG is a guy that can control the pace of the game, get others involved, and is the on floor leader/general.  And I tend to agree with him, the hogs of this generation I would put in that category would be Kareem Reid, Jabril Durham, Jalen Harris, and I would say honorable mention to Courtney Fortson as well.

If you watch those guys play it's different than say a TJ Cleveland or Jannero Pargo or any of those other guys you mentioned, the guys I mentioned have the ability to control the pace of the game, they direct traffic, they get people in the right spots.  You mentioned Cleveland, he's a career 2 APG guy, he was known more for his defense than his passing ability, we're talking about guys that can dominate a game just with their ball distribution alone and get you 7-10 APG on most nights, to me that's a true PG, and what I think the OP was trying to say.
Thats how I interpreted it too. Kareem Reid was the last ďquarterbackĒ point guard that facilitated the offense who made made assists, steals, and also put the rock in the hole.

incHOGnito

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2019, 08:51:04 am »

I think some of you guys may have took what the OP said too literal.  Sure  those guys you named played the PG position, that's not what he meant though.

What I took away from what he meant by true PG is a guy that can control the pace of the game, get others involved, and is the on floor leader/general.  And I tend to agree with him, the hogs of this generation I would put in that category would be Kareem Reid, Jabril Durham, Jalen Harris, and I would say honorable mention to Courtney Fortson as well.

If you watch those guys play it's different than say a TJ Cleveland or Jannero Pargo or any of those other guys you mentioned, the guys I mentioned have the ability to control the pace of the game, they direct traffic, they get people in the right spots.  You mentioned Cleveland, he's a career 2 APG guy, he was known more for his defense than his passing ability, we're talking about guys that can dominate a game just with their ball distribution alone and get you 7-10 APG on most nights, to me that's a true PG, and what I think the OP was trying to say.

Exactly!

hawginbigd1

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2019, 12:26:30 pm »

Arkansas has had other point guards since Kareem Reid.  Really, really good ones.  This is yet another example of Arkansas fan amnesia/PTSD. 

The team shot about 38% last night.  If they shot reasonably well, like 45%, that game is a blowout.  If they shot FT at a 65% clip, it's comfortable at the end. 

My point is, Harris can be a great player, but the guys need to be more consistent hitting open looks.  The shots are definitely there.  They don't need to "play beyond" their potential, just to their potential.
NM
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k.c.hawg

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2019, 10:59:00 pm »

Are you serious?  The OP said "He is the first true point guard we have had since Kareem Reid".  We're talking 20 years of basketball. 

TJ Cleveland, Jannero Pargo, Gary Irvin, Courtney Fortson, Jabril Durham: all were true PGs.  All since Kareem Reid.  Other "true" PGs include Eric Ferguson, Dontell Jefferson, and Ky Madden.

Of COURSE some of those guys were better than others.  But we've had a ton of guys that could drive and dish.  Some way better than others.

I will give you a good year by Jabril Durham. I think the OP might have been trying to say that Harris might have more net assists (assists minus turnovers) in his first year than all of the others you named had in their career. Courtney Fortson had 275 assists and 220 turnovers (are you kidding me). Janero Pargo was an offensive force with 168 assists to 120 turnovers. Gary Ervin who might have been the best facilitator of the bunch had 303 assists 175 turnovers. Dontell Jefferson 205 assists 125 turnovers. Ky Madden 369 assists 246 turnovers. Eric Ferguson 379 assists 284 turnovers. TJ Cleveland 280 assists 190 turnovers. BJ Young 178 assists to 138 turnovers.

Let me know when we get to a PG that is even close to a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. When someone is not achieving 2:1 they are masquerading as a point guard. Well, the only one to reach that not so lofty status was Jabril Durham with 256 assists to 85 turnovers at 3:1. Lee Mayberry was right at 3.5/1.

Currently Harris is at 89 assists 14 turnovers or 6.5/1 In my 50 years of playing and watching basketball I have no problem saying that since Lee Mayberry......Kareem Reid at 748 assists and 340 turnovers is the only point guard I've seen that I would put in Harris's league as a true point guard. He needs to improve his outside shot which I believe he will do but none of these other guys come close to him in ability to distribute the ball efficiently.

PonderinHog

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 11:12:21 pm »

Plus, he can elevate.  He's shocked me a couple of times this year with his hops.

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2019, 11:14:28 pm »

Just because a guy played the point position makes him a point guard. Ferguson had zero aptitude at the point.

I would say Cleveland and Durham were true point guards.
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razorback1829

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2019, 11:21:01 pm »

Harris will be a straight up problem next year and his senior year. Distributing at an elite level right now.

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2019, 12:50:26 pm »

I hope you are right.  Because right now this team will go as far as our 3 point shooting takes us.  If Harris can change that dynamic, we will be in good shape.  We aren't there yet.  Even with Harris' statistically monster performance against A&M, that game came down to Mason Jones hitting 3 three-pointers in the last 5 minutes.

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2019, 12:52:47 pm »

SIAP but this Harris stat is insane:

Most career 7+ assist, 0-turnover games in a Razorback MBB career since 1996-97:

3 - Jalen Harris (played in 13 games), Rashad Madden (played in 132 games)
2 - Kareem Reid (played in 131 games)
1 - ten players
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Corkscrew Johnson

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2019, 01:01:32 pm »


The team shot about 38% last night.  If they shot reasonably well, like 45%, that game is a blowout.  If they shot FT at a 65% clip, it's comfortable at the end. 


The team shot 33 three pointers out of 70 total shots.  That's 47% of all shots.  For the season, 38% of all shots are threes.  So, it's not really fair to say it was just a bad shooting game...we took way more 3's than normal.  Typically not a recipe for winning on the road unless you are riding the hot hand(s), which we didn't really have any that game.  But great job making them when they counted.


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Superhog1959

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2019, 03:54:15 pm »

The team shot 33 three pointers out of 70 total shots.  That's 47% of all shots.  For the season, 38% of all shots are threes.  So, it's not really fair to say it was just a bad shooting game...we took way more 3's than normal.  Typically not a recipe for winning on the road unless you are riding the hot hand(s), which we didn't really have any that game.  But great job making them when they counted.
Taking the fast 3s and to many 3s bothers me. I would like to see them work the ball in if possible. Get it to Gafford more. I am ok with drive and kick out for a open 3, but at least 1 or more needs to be around the basket to rebound. Jacking 3s up less than 10 seconds into a possession with out around the basket help is not good. 
Sure if your hot, making them, run it up. But there will come a time, and it already has at times, that the 3s wont go. If you live by the 3 you will die by it when the shots don't fall. Drive the ball, penetrate, draw fouls, if that's not there kick it out, look for a open 3. We break these zones, and we will be hard to beat.
I want to add, I like Harris and so many others on this team. Young, but if they jell, could do quit well this year.
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PonderinHog

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Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2019, 06:42:54 pm »

They need to work on their 15 ft. set shots, when the clock is stopped.
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incHOGnito

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2019, 07:23:17 pm »

I hope you are right.  Because right now this team will go as far as our 3 point shooting takes us.  If Harris can change that dynamic, we will be in good shape.  We aren't there yet.  Even with Harris' statistically monster performance against A&M, that game came down to Mason Jones hitting 3 three-pointers in the last 5 minutes.

A main reason he was open for those 3s was because A&M was sagging into the lane because Harris had been abusing them getting into the lane.

The point is when he is aggressive and facilitates good things happen. When his is passive, we stand still and take bad shots.
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Hogmatic

Re: This Team Goes as far as Harris Takes Them
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2019, 12:02:30 pm »

Harris will be a straight up problem next year and his senior year. Distributing at an elite level right now.

He really is the unsung hero of this season.  He has been far better than expected, is cat quick and smart.   He is not getting the respect he deserves on here.
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