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Author Topic: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse  (Read 7796 times)

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liljo

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2018, 01:31:23 pm »

Yes, I actually was the one that posted those maps.



 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Deep Shoat

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Re: Just gonna leave this here....
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2018, 01:32:52 pm »

We should hire the Wisconsin coach and see if that style works for us.
The one year we played the style worked great for us. 

Then Enos came in looking to run a different system, Bielema wouldn't stand for anything, Pittman left, the players saw the coaches were quitting and started doing the same.  Bielema got lost and lazy, and the rest is history.

It's never been a system problem. 
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jkstock04

Re: Just gonna leave this here....
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2018, 01:33:46 pm »

We should hire the Wisconsin coach and see if that style works for us.
LOL
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psychhog

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2018, 01:55:49 pm »

The post didn't say get back to relevance. It said become like the team that has gone to 3 straight CFP and is undoubtedly the 2nd most successful team in football this decade.

Ah I see you are correct my bad. There was a post right before yours that mentioned “relevance” and I guess I read yours as a response to that as opposed to the OP.

gawntrail

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2018, 02:16:38 pm »

But honestly, how much difference is there in a #15 rated class and a #20 rated class?  I would suggest that there's virtually no difference.  If we can have three years of being rated between 10-20 we'll be competitive.

^^both of you are thinking correctly^^

Consistent above-average recruiting will pay dividends.  In order to get from A-Z you have to pass through B, C, D, E, etc.... How long you spend at each mile marker is up to you.  Very few instances in life do you skip 'the next step' and continue on.  Obviously, time is a factor, but, today's microwave expectation for everything usually screws up a perfectly good plan.  It takes time and patience to master a skill.  Why do we think it is any easier or faster teaching those skills to 18-22 yr olds.  So many kids do not even know how to properly make their bed and put away their clothes these days.  And, lets face it.  Too many stud HS athletes are studs on athletic ability alone.  Very few are cerebral.  So, football philosophy that requires brain first instead of 'just make it happen' is completely foreign to many of these kids.

If we hit a couple top 20 recruit classes, then it stands to reason we will both get better AND draw recruits to us that get us top 15 recruit classes and better still.  Our path is not like other power houses in our conference or the country.  We have unique circumstances to overcome.  But, we have taken the first step.... and, I'm anxious to watch it every step.

jhogg

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #105 on: December 28, 2018, 03:01:58 pm »

recruiting, recruiting and more recruiting
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jgphillips3

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #106 on: December 28, 2018, 03:02:48 pm »

The one year we played the style worked great for us. 

Then Enos came in looking to run a different system, Bielema wouldn't stand for anything, Pittman left, the players saw the coaches were quitting and started doing the same.  Bielema got lost and lazy, and the rest is history.

It's never been a system problem. 

It worked for us in 2014?  We went 6-6 with a top ten defense until demolishing hapless Texas.  I mean, it showed signs of life that year but I would hesitate to say it worked.  The Enos offense in 2015 and 2016 was far and away more effective than the ground and pound of the first two years.  It could have worked with elite linemen on both sides of the ball but Bielema throttled Pittman's recruiting numbers so we were doomed. 

hogsanity

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #107 on: December 28, 2018, 03:19:01 pm »

It worked for us in 2014?  We went 6-6 with a top ten defense until demolishing hapless Texas.  I mean, it showed signs of life that year but I would hesitate to say it worked.  The Enos offense in 2015 and 2016 was far and away more effective than the ground and pound of the first two years.  It could have worked with elite linemen on both sides of the ball but Bielema throttled Pittman's recruiting numbers so we were doomed. 

It showed flashes in 2014. The Hogs just whipped TT early, and looked like a typical big10 team doing so. The late season back to back weeks of catching LSU and om at great spots, posting back to back shutouts while controlling the LOS gave people pause to think maybe this was going to work, then facing a Texas team with the worst Qb they may have ever put on the field gave everyone warm fuzzies.  But it also gave opponents the blue print, stack the box and make them beat you passing. Hurt the Hogs early in 2015, then BA went crazy the last 6 or 7 games through the air, but that was fools gold. 
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liljo

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #108 on: December 28, 2018, 03:29:26 pm »

It worked for us in 2014?  We went 6-6 with a top ten defense until demolishing hapless Texas.  I mean, it showed signs of life that year but I would hesitate to say it worked.  The Enos offense in 2015 and 2016 was far and away more effective than the ground and pound of the first two years.  It could have worked with elite linemen on both sides of the ball but Bielema throttled Pittman's recruiting numbers so we were doomed.

Now why would ol' Brett do that in 2014?

Ol' Brett prolly sat back in that big ol' recliner, looked 150 feet across his living room, spotted that beautiful wife of his and said, "Honey, you ready for an extended vacation? I just figured out how to make $13 million dollars by doin' nothing but wearin' flip flops in Florida and callin' it a recruiting trip."

"But baby, how long can you get away with that without losing your job?"

"Heh heh heh, that's the trick, sweetie. That's the trick."

Superhog1959

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #109 on: December 28, 2018, 03:34:01 pm »

I remember when Frank retired from coaching. Lou Holtz was named coach. Everyone was like, (Lou Holtz?) WTH. Then I heard people say, well if Frank picked him, he must be a good coach. He was, although he didn't like Frank trying to run his show. So it went south from there, like many other coaches here. You should read Lou's book on the NC he won at ND. He said the 77 Hogs was probably the best team he ever had.

Then we got Hatfield. Kenny was a very good coach and won a lot of games. But after a few years, a lot started complaining that he had a boring, not pass much team. Also it seemed we would get in the top 10 then play a really good team and get a whipping. Frank being Frank let him know his displeasures and told him what he needed to do. Kenny left for Clemson, Frank was not prepared for that. It set the program back (hard) for years.
 
Danny Ford lost his job but didn't get the credit he deserved for recruiting so well. Nutt comes in and wins big time. Nutt was a Broyles yes man. But in the end that was his (or at least part) of his downfall. With the talent he had for a couple of years, he should have won the NC. If he would have left Malazan alone, I think we would have. Between his girlfriend and him taking over the play calling, it cost him his job. He was so predictable, anyone that watched the hogs knew every play coming, so did other coaches.

Bobby comes in, rebuilds the team. WOW that was fun to watch. I was watching us play LSU and they beat us bad. On national TV Bobby, from across the field, gave Les a cussing. It was kinda funny, but at the same time, not how a professional should act. You could plainly read his lips, it was not professional. That , to me, was the beginning of the end for BP. The cycle thing just sealed it.

Then Bert comes. It looked like a good hire at first. Rose Bowls all that. We know what happened after he lost his good assistants. We were close a couple of years. OT losses go the other way, we could have made some noise nationally. I dont think he was a good coach, but when he lost his good assistants, it showed plainly in more ways than one.

Chad Morris, dissaster his first year. 2-10. Was it the players? Coaching? Both? I cant answer that question at this point. The one thing I do know, is it will show up quickly in the next couple of years. The recruiting seems to be good, at least thats what the know it alls say. I want him to do well, as I am sure all true hog fans do. We need to see visible improvement in player attitudes, player effort and coaching. There needs to be visible improvement in team organization. The Razorbacks are a long way from being even a good team, much less a powerhouse. I hope Coach Morris can fix this program, because if he gets fired, we just start over again.

liljo

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #110 on: December 28, 2018, 03:48:25 pm »

I remember when Frank retired from coaching. Lou Holtz was named coach. Everyone was like, (Lou Holtz?) WTH. Then I heard people say, well if Frank picked him, he must be a good coach. He was, although he didn't like Frank trying to run his show. So it went south from there, like many other coaches here. You should read Lou's book on the NC he won at ND. He said the 77 Hogs was probably the best team he ever had.

Then we got Hatfield. Kenny was a very good coach and won a lot of games. But after a few years, a lot started complaining that he had a boring, not pass much team. Also it seemed we would get in the top 10 then play a really good team and get a whipping. Frank being Frank let him know his displeasures and told him what he needed to do. Kenny left for Clemson, Frank was not prepared for that. It set the program back (hard) for years.
 
Danny Ford lost his job but didn't get the credit he deserved for recruiting so well. Nutt comes in and wins big time. Nutt was a Broyles yes man. But in the end that was his (or at least part) of his downfall. With the talent he had for a couple of years, he should have won the NC. If he would have left Malazan alone, I think we would have. Between his girlfriend and him taking over the play calling, it cost him his job. He was so predictable, anyone that watched the hogs knew every play coming, so did other coaches.

Bobby comes in, rebuilds the team. WOW that was fun to watch. I was watching us play LSU and they beat us bad. On national TV Bobby, from across the field, gave Les a cussing. It was kinda funny, but at the same time, not how a professional should act. You could plainly read his lips, it was not professional. That , to me, was the beginning of the end for BP. The cycle thing just sealed it.

Then Bert comes. It looked like a good hire at first. Rose Bowls all that. We know what happened after he lost his good assistants. We were close a couple of years. OT losses go the other way, we could have made some noise nationally. I dont think he was a good coach, but when he lost his good assistants, it showed plainly in more ways than one.

Chad Morris, dissaster his first year. 2-10. Was it the players? Coaching? Both? I cant answer that question at this point. The one thing I do know, is it will show up quickly in the next couple of years. The recruiting seems to be good, at least thats what the know it alls say. I want him to do well, as I am sure all true hog fans do. We need to see visible improvement in player attitudes, player effort and coaching. There needs to be visible improvement in team organization. The Razorbacks are a long way from being even a good team, much less a powerhouse. I hope Coach Morris can fix this program, because if he gets fired, we just start over again.
Enjoyed your post. We share the same hopes, my friend.

Superhog1959

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #111 on: December 28, 2018, 03:53:45 pm »

Enjoyed your post. We share the same hopes, my friend.
Thank you, I don't get to talk a lot when the wife is around. When I do, I have a tendency to ramble. lol I hope I didn't bore a lot of people. 
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Al Boarland

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #112 on: December 28, 2018, 05:40:59 pm »

It's worth considering that Clemson played only a few teams that recruited at a high level as Dabo built the program. Morris doesn't have that luxury, so the odds of a Clemson like rise are unmeasureably small.

SooieGeneris

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #113 on: December 28, 2018, 07:32:02 pm »

I remember when Frank retired from coaching. Lou Holtz was named coach. Everyone was like, (Lou Holtz?) WTH. Then I heard people say, well if Frank picked him, he must be a good coach. He was, although he didn't like Frank trying to run his show. So it went south from there, like many other coaches here. You should read Lou's book on the NC he won at ND. He said the 77 Hogs was probably the best team he ever had.

Then we got Hatfield. Kenny was a very good coach and won a lot of games. But after a few years, a lot started complaining that he had a boring, not pass much team. Also it seemed we would get in the top 10 then play a really good team and get a whipping. Frank being Frank let him know his displeasures and told him what he needed to do. Kenny left for Clemson, Frank was not prepared for that. It set the program back (hard) for years.
 
Danny Ford lost his job but didn't get the credit he deserved for recruiting so well. Nutt comes in and wins big time. Nutt was a Broyles yes man. But in the end that was his (or at least part) of his downfall. With the talent he had for a couple of years, he should have won the NC. If he would have left Malazan alone, I think we would have. Between his girlfriend and him taking over the play calling, it cost him his job. He was so predictable, anyone that watched the hogs knew every play coming, so did other coaches.

Bobby comes in, rebuilds the team. WOW that was fun to watch. I was watching us play LSU and they beat us bad. On national TV Bobby, from across the field, gave Les a cussing. It was kinda funny, but at the same time, not how a professional should act. You could plainly read his lips, it was not professional. That , to me, was the beginning of the end for BP. The cycle thing just sealed it.

Then Bert comes. It looked like a good hire at first. Rose Bowls all that. We know what happened after he lost his good assistants. We were close a couple of years. OT losses go the other way, we could have made some noise nationally. I dont think he was a good coach, but when he lost his good assistants, it showed plainly in more ways than one.

Chad Morris, dissaster his first year. 2-10. Was it the players? Coaching? Both? I cant answer that question at this point. The one thing I do know, is it will show up quickly in the next couple of years. The recruiting seems to be good, at least thats what the know it alls say. I want him to do well, as I am sure all true hog fans do. We need to see visible improvement in player attitudes, player effort and coaching. There needs to be visible improvement in team organization. The Razorbacks are a long way from being even a good team, much less a powerhouse. I hope Coach Morris can fix this program, because if he gets fired, we just start over again.

That is all the more reason to hope Morris is successful. We have had a tendency to go opposite when we make a coaching change.

Dour Danny Ford to Captain Sunshine Hooty Nutt. Ford kept his office drapes closed while he played the stock market and tried to tend to his cattle long distance.

Hooten comes in, pumps sunshine up everybody's backside, slaps everybody on the back and wins the first 9 games.

It took awhile to see that he was just a snake oil salesman with a line of bull. Then came the fiasco of 2006-07 with one of the most talented teams we've ever had that completely spit the bit in the last 3-4 games. I was not surprised as I was done with the jackal by 2003.

Then comes no-nonsense drill sergeant Petrino with all the charm of a rattlesnake, but the wide open offense fans had been craving. Then came Bikes, Bimbos and Blues after 2-3 mediocre recruiting classes.

We had the clownish Johnell one year reign of error, then go opposite for the third time, this time bringing in a run-it-up-the-middle-coach from the Big 1G.

We went from Drill Sergeant Petrino who dropped F-bombs like Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now to Captain FlipFlops who wanted to leave the door to his office open (except when imbibing) and listen to reggae all day and buddy up to the players.

Like the offense went from Atari to XBox going from Hooty to Petrino, we went back to Atari with Bert, whose main qualification (to Long, I guess) was that he didn't have a Harley..

In spite of the things Enos did to open up the offense, we still huddled and played at one of the slowest paces in CFB, then switched to a guy who wants to go at one of the fastest paces in CFB and institute actual discipline on and off the field..

If Morris was to be fired in 3 years or so, then what? Another return to a run-it-up-the-middle ball possession coach? Another coach trying to win with players who played in a scheme opposite to how he wants to do things?

We all need to hope Morris succeeds because otherwise, if there are any dinosaurs left in coaching by then, we would probably hire one of them. Bring Paul Johnson out of retirement maybe?

"Morris is over his head" folks, be careful what you wish for because if he fails we will likely be looking at caveman football again with a slew of 2-3 star players like we have tried to win with in the past..

ricepig

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #114 on: December 28, 2018, 07:54:51 pm »

So, you think Yurachek only knows "cavemen" coaches? My guess, if, and when he makes his next change, it will be a young guy, that's what he's hired in the past.
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LZH

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #115 on: December 28, 2018, 08:19:31 pm »

^^both of you are thinking correctly^^

Consistent above-average recruiting will pay dividends.  In order to get from A-Z you have to pass through B, C, D, E, etc.... How long you spend at each mile marker is up to you.  Very few instances in life do you skip 'the next step' and continue on.  Obviously, time is a factor, but, today's microwave expectation for everything usually screws up a perfectly good plan.  It takes time and patience to master a skill.  Why do we think it is any easier or faster teaching those skills to 18-22 yr olds.  So many kids do not even know how to properly make their bed and put away their clothes these days.  And, lets face it.  Too many stud HS athletes are studs on athletic ability alone.  Very few are cerebral.  So, football philosophy that requires brain first instead of 'just make it happen' is completely foreign to many of these kids.

If we hit a couple top 20 recruit classes, then it stands to reason we will both get better AND draw recruits to us that get us top 15 recruit classes and better still.  Our path is not like other power houses in our conference or the country.  We have unique circumstances to overcome.  But, we have taken the first step.... and, I'm anxious to watch it every step.

What?
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feral boar

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #116 on: December 29, 2018, 12:28:49 am »

frank was the first good salesman at ua you're gonna have to be one and a good one. he had tireless energy but limited resources. much hasn't changed actually but he could recruit ark and tx and even beat out the hounds-tooth one from time to time (see alworth).

because he couldn't change some of the limitations he was working with he had to have a keen eye for up and coming coaches who could develop players that were not blue chips. oh and he could coach some himself but his teams always had depth issues. unfortunately he is remembered coaching wise by some for his last few teams (1975 an exception) which were decimated by injuries. holtz best years were with franks players.

what frank saw were the limitations many have described in this thread. rural state small population and poor. he figured out later that to draw recruits you had to offer top notch facilities so he went to arm twisting the folks who could support that financially unfortunately that also was limited inside the state. so to address the issue he went all in when he could to the sec, which would bring in the money to build facilities to help attract out of state recruits. he knew there were too many limitations. coaches had to have something to sell and so he went with a group that he probably knew were going to beat ua like a drum in fball for a while. then he veered off his own path when he hired crowe and never found a coach again that had his vision or energy. its been said by the last few coaches if we can just get them to come and see.

its hard to argue that there has been a coach like frank that's had as much energy and recruiting desire other than cm.  the question on cm is can he coach as well or at least surround himself with good ones.

hogsanity

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #117 on: December 29, 2018, 11:37:52 am »

Want to become a powerhouse? Recruit DEFENSIVE players like you will see later today in the cfp semi finals or even like Mich and Fla have.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #118 on: December 29, 2018, 12:02:38 pm »

Want to become a powerhouse? Recruit DEFENSIVE players like you will see later today in the cfp semi finals or even like Mich and Fla have.
ill be watching the Oklahoma defense very closely!!
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99toLife

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #119 on: December 29, 2018, 12:16:30 pm »

Want to become a powerhouse? Recruit DEFENSIVE players like you will see later today in the cfp semi finals or even like Mich and Fla have.

I agree, when you have a bad boy defense you can bring almost any team to their knees, gives your offense more and better opportunities to score.

bennyl08

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #120 on: December 29, 2018, 06:44:47 pm »

It is not outside the realm of possibilities for us to become the Clemson of the SEC.  He just has to do what no coach has done since desegregation, recruit well, win games, continue to recruit well and win games and don't let your personal life screw things up.  If he can do that, he can build something great here. I honestly think CBP would have done it if he could have capitalized on his success on the field, in recruiting and had a better personality to sell in living rooms.  CBB...I had faith in him until I realized he was a lousy at keeping coaches and recruiting/developing talent to match his system.  Right now I have faith in CCM's recruiting but it remains to be seen if he can translate that to the field and then continue to build upon it in following classes and seasons.

Recruit well and win will certainly do the trick, but the question is, how do we do that?

First, you have to get a coach with an instinct to win who is a workaholic. I'm talking, if the guy leaves, he won't have a house to sell because he basically lives razorback football. From there, that coach has to have scheme flexibility. Why? First and foremost, recruiting. If you are stuck in any type of scheme that is too specific, then that already handicaps you as a team by limiting your recruiting to players that fit that scheme, as well as making it easier for defenses to stop said scheme. If you one year you have a Ryan Mallett as your best option and say Jacoby Walker as your second best, you want to be able to sign a less mobile Mallett and have the coaching acumen to use his skills. Next year, if your recruiting options are Lamar Jackson or Ty Storey, you want to be able to sign and properly use Jackson as well.

Scheme flexibility becomes a lot easier when you build the team from the trenches out. If you have a good offensive line, you can more easily switch your style because they will be both strong and fast enough to do whatever is needed. On defense, you can have the best secondary in the world, but if you can't get a pass rush, that doesn't really matter.

Lastly, you need consistency. If your team is talented enough to beat OM and LSU later in the season, don't lose to Rutgers and Toldeo early in the season. Or, don't beat Auburn earlier in the season just to say have a letdown game later against Kentucky. Of course, football players are humans and not robots so there will be some variability, but keep it to a minimum.

Now, you'll note that I haven't specified what style or anything is needed. Any style, properly executed can and will be effective more or less. However, some are easier to pull off than others. For example, rah-rah vs authoritarian vs ceo style HC. You need some of the first two on your coaching staff regardless. However, if you do in fact become a powerhouse, you will likely lose your lower coaches over time, so IMO, best not to keep your brains there, but instead with the HC. Easier to find rah-rah than brains. Go-fast teams typically are able to win the games they should win easier than more pro-style teams. However, fall much harder against teams with more talent than them. Pro style teams end up having closer scoring games regardless, which increases their odds of beating those who are better. Plus, pro-style teams are more attractive to pro-caliber players. So that's an added bonus. Though, you are also more likely to lose your coach the NFL as well.
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #121 on: December 30, 2018, 08:40:27 am »

frank was the first good salesman at ua you're gonna have to be one and a good one. he had tireless energy but limited resources. much hasn't changed actually but he could recruit ark and tx and even beat out the hounds-tooth one from time to time (see alworth).

because he couldn't change some of the limitations he was working with he had to have a keen eye for up and coming coaches who could develop players that were not blue chips. oh and he could coach some himself but his teams always had depth issues. unfortunately he is remembered coaching wise by some for his last few teams (1975 an exception) which were decimated by injuries. holtz best years were with franks players.

what frank saw were the limitations many have described in this thread. rural state small population and poor. he figured out later that to draw recruits you had to offer top notch facilities so he went to arm twisting the folks who could support that financially unfortunately that also was limited inside the state. so to address the issue he went all in when he could to the sec, which would bring in the money to build facilities to help attract out of state recruits. he knew there were too many limitations. coaches had to have something to sell and so he went with a group that he probably knew were going to beat ua like a drum in fball for a while. then he veered off his own path when he hired crowe and never found a coach again that had his vision or energy. its been said by the last few coaches if we can just get them to come and see.

its hard to argue that there has been a coach like frank that's had as much energy and recruiting desire other than cm.  the question on cm is can he coach as well or at least surround himself with good ones.

Don't forget that Frank had an innovative offense too.  CCM already runs the more advanced RPO version of the spread and looks capable of adapting his offense.   He should be able to adapt as the spread offense is tweaked more beyond the RPO.  Sadly we never saw his spread with RPO that he developed which is still the Clemson offense.   With O'Grady and Henry, He will be a very TE strong version of the RPO for the next few years like he had at Clemson.   After years of development, Clemson has all of the other pieces to the puzzle and have now moved to an RPO that can operate with a great passing QB (lawrence).    Clemson doesn't have to have a running QB threat to make the RPO dangerous NOW because they have the WRs, TE and RBs that make the defense commit to the WHOLE field.

The Arkansas HS FB teams are mostly running the spread and HUNH so we have a better chance of converting the HS talent when it gets on the Hill.  In other words, our Hogs are finally running the same concept as the high schools which was a bigger problem than many want to admit during the CBB years.    CCM is a coach that the Ark HS coaches can respect since he was one of them.  The Texas HS coaches love him and even the Oklahoma HS coaches know him from his time at TU.   
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #122 on: December 30, 2018, 08:50:47 am »

I remember when Frank retired from coaching. Lou Holtz was named coach. Everyone was like, (Lou Holtz?) WTH. Then I heard people say, well if Frank picked him, he must be a good coach. He was, although he didn't like Frank trying to run his show. So it went south from there, like many other coaches here. You should read Lou's book on the NC he won at ND. He said the 77 Hogs was probably the best team he ever had.

Then we got Hatfield. Kenny was a very good coach and won a lot of games. But after a few years, a lot started complaining that he had a boring, not pass much team. Also it seemed we would get in the top 10 then play a really good team and get a whipping. Frank being Frank let him know his displeasures and told him what he needed to do. Kenny left for Clemson, Frank was not prepared for that. It set the program back (hard) for years.
 
Danny Ford lost his job but didn't get the credit he deserved for recruiting so well. Nutt comes in and wins big time. Nutt was a Broyles yes man. But in the end that was his (or at least part) of his downfall. With the talent he had for a couple of years, he should have won the NC. If he would have left Malazan alone, I think we would have. Between his girlfriend and him taking over the play calling, it cost him his job. He was so predictable, anyone that watched the hogs knew every play coming, so did other coaches.

Bobby comes in, rebuilds the team. WOW that was fun to watch. I was watching us play LSU and they beat us bad. On national TV Bobby, from across the field, gave Les a cussing. It was kinda funny, but at the same time, not how a professional should act. You could plainly read his lips, it was not professional. That , to me, was the beginning of the end for BP. The cycle thing just sealed it.

Then Bert comes. It looked like a good hire at first. Rose Bowls all that. We know what happened after he lost his good assistants. We were close a couple of years. OT losses go the other way, we could have made some noise nationally. I dont think he was a good coach, but when he lost his good assistants, it showed plainly in more ways than one.

Chad Morris, dissaster his first year. 2-10. Was it the players? Coaching? Both? I cant answer that question at this point. The one thing I do know, is it will show up quickly in the next couple of years. The recruiting seems to be good, at least thats what the know it alls say. I want him to do well, as I am sure all true hog fans do. We need to see visible improvement in player attitudes, player effort and coaching. There needs to be visible improvement in team organization. The Razorbacks are a long way from being even a good team, much less a powerhouse. I hope Coach Morris can fix this program, because if he gets fired, we just start over again.

JFB was the right guy at a time when he could do the things he did without drama.  JFB could get involved in many issues in our state. Arkansas usually has a great team when the Ark HS FB programs create numerous 4 stars to add to some out of state talent.  It was evident when Nutt, Hatfield and Petrino were here and BP made a living off that great first class with all of the stud ARK HS kids.   We are not signing a fraction of the kids we used to sign from LR and PB as recently as the 70s to 90s because the schools in those cities & others are imploding.   Stud athletes are walking the halls or many are dropping out and working the streets.  We could fix some of our crime, improve the citizenry and improve the athletic and academic talent pools if we could improve participation in those schools. 

I think JFB was masterful at influencing some state policy, so can CCM and HY get involved to help some of our former talent pools like LR, PB, etc?   Just imagine if the LR school district alone could be improved a little.  The HOGS are important enough to the whole population that it may over come the school desegregation induced bussing policy - and that is a big issue that could help LR quickly.   Extracurricular activity participation rates are embarrassingly low in the LR & PB school districts because it is too difficult for single family households to transport the kids if they can't take the bus.  Kids are bussed across town to other school districts so the parents are less likely to come get them after practice or take them to practice.  Kids and parents may live in unsafe neighborhoods thus are not tied to neighborhood pride and the kids now going to other schools is making it worse.

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #123 on: December 30, 2018, 09:40:01 am »

JFB was the right guy at a time when he could do the things he did without drama.  JFB could get involved in many issues in our state. Arkansas usually has a great team when the Ark HS FB programs create numerous 4 stars to add to some out of state talent.  It was evident when Nutt, Hatfield and Petrino were here and BP made a living off that great first class with all of the stud ARK HS kids.   We are not signing a fraction of the kids we used to sign from LR and PB as recently as the 70s to 90s because the schools in those cities & others are imploding.   Stud athletes are walking the halls or many are dropping out and working the streets.  We could fix some of our crime, improve the citizenry and improve the athletic and academic talent pools if we could improve participation in those schools. 

I think JFB was masterful at influencing some state policy, so can CCM and HY get involved to help some of our former talent pools like LR, PB, etc?   Just imagine if the LR school district alone could be improved a little.  The HOGS are important enough to the whole population that it may over come the school desegregation induced bussing policy - and that is a big issue that could help LR quickly.   Extracurricular activity participation rates are embarrassingly low in the LR & PB school districts because it is too difficult for single family households to transport the kids if they can't take the bus.  Kids are bussed across town to other school districts so the parents are less likely to come get them after practice or take them to practice.  Kids and parents may live in unsafe neighborhoods thus are not tied to neighborhood pride and the kids now going to other schools is making it worse.
One of the best posts ever on this board.  Everything is spot on. 

Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #124 on: December 30, 2018, 10:09:32 am »

One of the best posts ever on this board.  Everything is spot on.

I have my moments of clarity ahahaha.  I am saddened by what has happened to our schools in LR, PB and other at-risk communities.  Unfortunately it is hurting our higher education and social fabric at very high impact.

sevenof400

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #125 on: December 30, 2018, 10:15:10 am »

I have my moments of clarity ahahaha.  I am saddened by what has happened to our schools in LR, PB and other at-risk communities.  Unfortunately it is hurting our higher education and social fabric at very high impact.

It is hurting our state as a whole when you consider the dump trucks full of cash that have been wasted in the LRPSD and PCSSD.  That money could have been used to meaningfully improve education throughout the entire state. 
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2018, 11:51:22 am »

It is hurting our state as a whole when you consider the dump trucks full of cash that have been wasted in the LRPSD and PCSSD.  That money could have been used to meaningfully improve education throughout the entire state.

Most of that money went to Legal fees for the last 40+ years.   Those same lawyers have NO incentive to fix any problems because they would lose the legal fees if everyone stopped quarreling.   Just like a divorce lawyer.
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99toLife

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2018, 02:56:30 pm »

It is hurting our state as a whole when you consider the dump trucks full of cash that have been wasted in the LRPSD and PCSSD.  That money could have been used to meaningfully improve education throughout the entire state.

KCMO-STLMO-Detroit and LR my guess is together $8-10 Billion has been wasted with NO results.. it's unreal
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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2018, 03:11:06 pm »


'It is not outside the realm of possibilities for us to become the Clemson of the SEC.'

Whatever you're drinking, I'd like some.  We have nearly 30 years of SEC history.  What on earth, outside of a few successful seasons (albeit no conference championship), would make you think we could EVER even sniff Clemson's level of success? They will play in two Nat'l champ games in three years.  The only answer to increase WINS at AR is to move conferences.  That's the cold hard truth.  15-20th nationally ranked recruiting classes that still put us at or near dead last in our conference will not change our fortunes.  Sure, once every 10 years we might make some noise, but to even come close to Clemson? Keep dreaming...
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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2018, 03:19:45 pm »

'It is not outside the realm of possibilities for us to become the Clemson of the SEC.'

Whatever you're drinking, I'd like some.  We have nearly 30 years of SEC history.  What on earth, outside of a few successful seasons (albeit no conference championship), would make you think we could EVER even sniff Clemson's level of success? They will play in two Nat'l champ games in three years.  The only answer to increase WINS at AR is to move conferences.  That's the cold hard truth.  15-20th nationally ranked recruiting classes that still put us at or near dead last in our conference will not change our fortunes.  Sure, once every 10 years we might make some noise, but to even come close to Clemson? Keep dreaming...

From what I've read, if Arkansas signs all six of the players committed to sign in February, this class will finish #15 in the nation and #6 in the SEC. If Morris and staff keep that kind of recruiting up in the future, the Hogs will start to become consistently competitive in the SEC in a few years.

orvillesghost

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #130 on: December 31, 2018, 10:06:39 am »

It is very unlikely that Arkansas will ever be anything more than a six to eight win team in most years with an occasional chance to win 10 in the odd year when everything falls just right.

This isn't a pleasant thing to hear or believe in, I will grant you.

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #131 on: December 31, 2018, 02:20:22 pm »

It is very unlikely that Arkansas will ever be anything more than a six to eight win team in most years with an occasional chance to win 10 in the odd year when everything falls just right.

This isn't a pleasant thing to hear or believe in, I will grant you.



Arkansas went 10-2 in regular season play in back to back years finishing #12 in the nation (2010) and #5 in the nation (2011) so it can be done more frequently than you think. Unfortunately what happened in 2012 proves the University of Arkansas does not know how to handle prosperity and success.
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99toLife

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #132 on: December 31, 2018, 02:29:55 pm »

Arkansas went 10-2 in regular season play in back to back years finishing #12 in the nation (2010) and #5 in the nation (2011) so it can be done more frequently than you think. Unfortunately what happened in 2012 proves the University of Arkansas does not know how to handle prosperity and success.

That isn't powerhouse status, that's a couple of good years, surrounded by average to below average years...just sayin..
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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #133 on: December 31, 2018, 02:33:49 pm »

That isn't powerhouse status, that's a couple of good years, surrounded by average to below average years...just sayin..

I didn't say it was Powerhouse status, I said it shows what can be achieved at Arkansas with the right head coach. Arkansas is capable of 10 win seasons more frequently than some think.
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99toLife

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #134 on: December 31, 2018, 02:49:06 pm »

I didn't say it was Powerhouse status, I said it shows what can be achieved at Arkansas with the right head coach. Arkansas is capable of 10 win seasons more frequently than some think.

I think we are capable of back to back 10 win seasons, If Missouri can do it and has more than once the last 10 years.. We certainly can do it moving forward with the right coach. 
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liljo

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #135 on: December 31, 2018, 03:11:57 pm »

It is a culture that is hard to believe until you spend some time in the SE US to see the investment in their high schools and facilities.  I lived in TN and GA for about 8 years so I traveled the region and totally agree with you.  Georgia with almost 2-3x more population has half the # of school districts as Arkansas.   We have TONS of small school districts that lower the curriculum offerings, lower the level of competition, and have limited funds to invest.

Yes, and each of these school districts has the burden of superintendent and staff. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are tied up in staff that could be eliminated by combining school districts. But that will never happen in a state that has divided these little districts up like little kingdoms.

In Hot Spring County alone, there is the Quachita School District, Magnet Cove School District, Glen Rose School District, and Malvern School District. Oh, I forgot to mention Bismark School District. FIVE school districts in a rural county with a low population. Five superintendents and all the staff that go along with it. Lots of money spent before it ever gets anywhere near a classroom.

sevenof400

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #136 on: December 31, 2018, 03:32:06 pm »

Yes, and each of these school districts has the burden of superintendent and staff. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are tied up in staff that could be eliminated by combining school districts. But that will never happen in a state that has divided these little districts up like little kingdoms.

In Hot Spring County alone, there is the Quachita School District, Magnet Cove School District, Glen Rose School District, and Malvern School District. Oh, I forgot to mention Bismark School District. FIVE school districts in a rural county with a low population. Five superintendents and all the staff that go along with it. Lots of money spent before it ever gets anywhere near a classroom.

Amen!  With outsourcing now all the rage, I'd like to see several smaller school districts come together in a working relationship to outsource their administration - that would be a significant cost savings!
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hogsanity

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2018, 03:43:13 pm »

Amen!  With outsourcing now all the rage, I'd like to see several smaller school districts come together in a working relationship to outsource their administration - that would be a significant cost savings!

Consolidation of administration into one adm district per county was proposed 20 yeara agi, projected savings was like 400mil over a decade. 400 mil that could be spent on acutal education of students. They outcry was immense. Every district was against it. Every small town said it was a threat to their existence. It was really just a threat to cushy admin and aupport jobs at each of the 300+, at the tiem, school districts in Ar.

LZH

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2018, 05:36:58 pm »

Consolidation of administration into one adm district per county was proposed 20 yeara agi, projected savings was like 400mil over a decade. 400 mil that could be spent on acutal education of students. They outcry was immense. Every district was against it. Every small town said it was a threat to their existence. It was really just a threat to cushy admin and aupport jobs at each of the 300+, at the tiem, school districts in Ar.

Not arguing about the academic side of it.  But how many kids wanna get home after football practice at 8:00 every night because they're shuffled around for miles just to attend a school 20 miles away from home?  Ask LR, and it's a fairly large city with the same problems.
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ricepig

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2018, 05:50:36 pm »

Not arguing about the academic side of it.  But how many kids wanna get home after football practice at 8:00 every night because they're shuffled around for miles just to attend a school 20 miles away from home?  Ask LR, and it's a fairly large city with the same problems.

If they would just consolidate the administration in the small counties, it would be a start. Most schools practices start at 2-2:15, they could be home sooner.
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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #140 on: December 31, 2018, 11:17:47 pm »

Heat map of every signed top 15 recruit from 2000 to 2017:




Heat map of first round NFL draft picks from 2008 to 2017 (home towns):



Very interesting map - thanks for posting. I'm surprised none of the heat is coming from the Nashville metro area.
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sevenof400

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #141 on: January 01, 2019, 09:38:07 am »


If they would just consolidate the administration in the small counties, it would be a start
. Most schools practices start at 2-2:15, they could be home sooner.

So much cash is wasted in school district administration PLUS the fact those types tend to be control freaks. 
The public education system is where innovation goes to die yet the administration trots out some new curriculum/teaching method (from a different overpaid vendor) with regularity Ex Lax would be envious of. 
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GuvHog

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #142 on: January 01, 2019, 10:24:08 am »

Not arguing about the academic side of it.  But how many kids wanna get home after football practice at 8:00 every night because they're shuffled around for miles just to attend a school 20 miles away from home?  Ask LR, and it's a fairly large city with the same problems.

I graduated from Greene County Tech. That district covers the overwhelming majority of Greene County and those students who live on the outer fringes of the county have had to catch the bus as early as 6 AM every day and don't usually get back home until at least 6 PM in the evenings. They've been doing that since long before I went to school there and there have been no complaints.
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LZH

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #143 on: January 01, 2019, 10:47:50 am »

I graduated from Greene County Tech. That district covers the overwhelming majority of Greene County and those students who live on the outer fringes of the county have had to catch the bus as early as 6 AM every day and don't usually get back home until at least 6 PM in the evenings. They've been doing that since long before I went to school there and there have been no complaints.

According to a six page piece in the ADG several years ago, football in LR is considered an extracurricular activity. They start practice at 3:30-4:00 and buses take them home afterward.......some kids who have a car run all over town dropping the others off at their house. Most don't get in until dark-thirty and still have to shower, eat, do homework, and hopefully catch a few hours sleep before it starts all over again.

That's why some of the best athletes/potential 4 & 5 star kids in LR are walking the hallways or the streets. They just don't wanna deal with that mess.

Thanks J. Walker.....over $85,000,000 blown since the late '80's and what good has it done?
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GuvHog

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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #144 on: January 01, 2019, 11:17:12 am »

According to a six page piece in the ADG several years ago, football in LR is considered an extracurricular activity. They start practice at 3:30-4:00 and buses take them home afterward.......some kids who have a car run all over town dropping the others off at their house. Most don't get in until dark-thirty and still have to shower, eat, do homework, and hopefully catch a few hours sleep before it starts all over again.

That's why some of the best athletes/potential 4 & 5 star kids in LR are walking the hallways or the streets. They just don't wanna deal with that mess.

Thanks J. Walker.....over $85,000,000 blown since the late '80's and what good has it done?

Since they raised the minimum grade average for eligibility to participate JR High and High School, a lot of those athletes don't want to put out the effort to get eligible either. A report card full of D's doesn't meet eligibility requirements.
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #145 on: January 01, 2019, 06:14:42 pm »

According to a six page piece in the ADG several years ago, football in LR is considered an extracurricular activity. They start practice at 3:30-4:00 and buses take them home afterward.......some kids who have a car run all over town dropping the others off at their house. Most don't get in until dark-thirty and still have to shower, eat, do homework, and hopefully catch a few hours sleep before it starts all over again.

That's why some of the best athletes/potential 4 & 5 star kids in LR are walking the hallways or the streets. They just don't wanna deal with that mess.

Thanks J. Walker.....over $85,000,000 blown since the late '80's and what good has it done?

John Walker doesn't want to fix the situation because his fiefdom would run out of cash.  He is no different than a divorce lawyer that keeps both sides stirred up so they don't compromise and finish it.  We have to get rid of the current point persons for desegregation for the Feds, State, and LRSD.  The Dillards, Stephens, Fords, etc need to use some force to get the parties talking in a different manner to fix the situation.    The crime, academics, quality citizens, and economy are highly influenced by the LRSD problems; so it is time to not let this continue for another 25 years.
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Pork Twain

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #146 on: January 02, 2019, 09:48:52 am »

From what I've read, if Arkansas signs all six of the players committed to sign in February, this class will finish #15 in the nation and #6 in the SEC. If Morris and staff keep that kind of recruiting up in the future, the Hogs will start to become consistently competitive in the SEC in a few years.
This after years of CBB and a 2-10 season also...  If he can improve the recruiting as he improves the W/L record, we should look great.
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #147 on: January 02, 2019, 10:01:32 am »

This after years of CBB and a 2-10 season also...  If he can improve the recruiting as he improves the W/L record, we should look great.

Morris, Chavis, Caldwell, Traylor are all major door openers that I don't remember having in these numbers since the Holtz days.  Even then he didn't have anyone of Morris or Traylor's prestige in Texas HS.    Morris, Chavis, Caldwell, and Traylor can open more than the doors in TX HS's- they can open doors in the Southeast as well.  During his time at Clemson, Morris created great connections in the SE US as does Chavis and Caldwell.
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Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #148 on: January 02, 2019, 10:23:38 am »

Morris, Chavis, Caldwell, Traylor are all major door openers that I don't remember having in these numbers since the Holtz days.  Even then he didn't have anyone of Morris or Traylor's prestige in Texas HS.    Morris, Chavis, Caldwell, and Traylor can open more than the doors in TX HS's- they can open doors in the Southeast as well.  During his time at Clemson, Morris created great connections in the SE US as does Chavis and Caldwell.

This is actually Caldwell's second tenure at Arkansas. He was the D-Line coach under Petrino.
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Hogmatic

Re: Building Arkansas into a powerhouse
« Reply #149 on: January 02, 2019, 10:29:00 am »

This is actually Caldwell's second tenure at Arkansas. He was the D-Line coach under Petrino.

Caldwell may be the real steal of the staff hires because he is an Arkansas boy (played at Arkansas State), highly respected by the NFL scouts, proven developer, proven recruiter, and the reason Chavis took a long look at us.
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