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Author Topic: Who will be the Hog QB next year  (Read 12084 times)

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hawginbigd1

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2018, 10:52:58 pm »

I say NAY.

I love how you and posters like you blame the OL for issues that Storey causes. No arm = shrunken field for D to defend. Sunken field to defend = can cover less space with less people. Less people required to cover = more people can rush without fear of being burned. Less people to cover also = more people in the box to stop run game. No run game = more pressure on passing game. More people that can rush and from different positions = harder to protect QB.

Not difficult and will not change with different OL or improved receiving corps with the same QB.
Hammer meets nail
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hawginbigd1

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2018, 10:54:13 pm »

You might be amazed at what even an average QB can do when he has proper protection......
Problem is, he's not average.
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Hoggish

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2018, 01:00:45 am »

If Arkansas field the same QB next season, the same problems will continue to plague this team.  Arkansas has another miserable season.  Probably about the same as this one.

ballz2thewall

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2018, 04:11:15 am »

i'm going backpacking.

plumbhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2018, 05:13:00 am »

I also think it will be a much improved Storey and a much improved team. There's not a QB out there that would have had a good year with what we had last year. Storey will actually have 10 team mates on the field with him this time.
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lakecityhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2018, 10:57:43 am »

"No arm = shrunken field for D to defend" Probably the most ill-informed comment ever posted on the 'Ville! It is comments like this that prove how very little some of you know about football in general and the Morris offense specifically.

Morris has stated PUBLICLY so many times that his is a running offense that likes to take shots down the field. The idea is to FORCE the defense to creep up to help defend the run game that operates off the run/pass option scheme. And yes, many of the pure RPO passes are short which just helps to get the safeties to creep forward.

This creates the one-on-one opportunities that Morris desires. The idea here is that the receiver should be able to beat the DB easier without help from the safety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJr3StoaNTM

Watch the throw at the 4:40 mark, Storey is running forward and throws on the move, the ball travels 49 yards in the air. Only 20 seconds later he throws a ball from his own 36 yard line that is caught at the opponent 13 yard line, MOST people would call that a deep throw. Storey does NOT have a Mallett type arm, but he has plenty of arm to make this offense work and not seeing that is just proves that you have either no knowledge of the game or a personal agenda.

The key to both throws was TIME! He had time which I believe comes from good O'Line play, in this case our O'Line simply out classed the opponent and when we faced better opponents that did NOT happen. Better D'Lines created havoc for our QB and it showed, couple that with less than stellar receiver play and you get 2-10! Yes, upgrading the O'Line, upgrading the receivers, the whole team having a year of experience and the coaches having a year of SEC experience should result in a better year. I doubt we see an 8 win season, but making a bowl game should not be out of the question.

ballz2thewall

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2018, 11:08:50 am »

"No arm = shrunken field for D to defend" Probably the most ill-informed comment ever posted on the 'Ville! It is comments like this that prove how very little some of you know about football in general and the Morris offense specifically.

Morris has stated PUBLICLY so many times that his is a running offense that likes to take shots down the field. The idea is to FORCE the defense to creep up to help defend the run game that operates off the run/pass option scheme. And yes, many of the pure RPO passes are short which just helps to get the safeties to creep forward.

This creates the one-on-one opportunities that Morris desires. The idea here is that the receiver should be able to beat the DB easier without help from the safety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJr3StoaNTM

Watch the throw at the 4:40 mark, Storey is running forward and throws on the move, the ball travels 49 yards in the air. Only 20 seconds later he throws a ball from his own 36 yard line that is caught at the opponent 13 yard line, MOST people would call that a deep throw. Storey does NOT have a Mallett type arm, but he has plenty of arm to make this offense work and not seeing that is just proves that you have either no knowledge of the game or a personal agenda.

The key to both throws was TIME! He had time which I believe comes from good O'Line play, in this case our O'Line simply out classed the opponent and when we faced better opponents that did NOT happen. Better D'Lines created havoc for our QB and it showed, couple that with less than stellar receiver play and you get 2-10! Yes, upgrading the O'Line, upgrading the receivers, the whole team having a year of experience and the coaches having a year of SEC experience should result in a better year. I doubt we see an 8 win season, but making a bowl game should not be out of the question.

why do you continuously put yourself in this position?

lakecityhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2018, 11:22:52 am »

Otis posted 6 or 7 options for POSSIBLE transfer QB's.

Kolar has pledged to Iowa State, he was a back-up at OK State 26 yards of total offense.

Clark is the backup at Kentucky, will have to sit out a year so my guess is a big no.

Buechele of Texas has not announced a transfer yet. He was the starter and in 23 games he rushed 168 times for 268 yards. He threw 30 TD's with 16 INT's. He is a better passer than a runner and will have 2 years to play 2.

Hurts of Alabama and we all know what he can do. Has NOT announced a transfer and probably won't.

Fine of UNT and most are excited for what he did against us. Very similar to Jones, but not near as good running the ball. He has rushed 269 times for 145 yards.

Tate of Arizona is a true dual threat QB that everyone says is our ticket to success and by most accounts a true stud QB. He has NOT announced a transfer yet, but if he does he WILL be sought by many schools.

Hicks of SMU has announced a transfer and obviously knows the Morris system. He is truly a one-dimensional QB rushing 145 times for MINUS 145 yards. Has thrown 71 TD's with 34 INT's, but big yards and big TD's. Not the dual threat that everyone is looking for. He could be a stop-gap, but we have to consider that much of his success has been against AAC level teams.

Is there any one of these guys that we should feel like would be a substantial upgrade?

redleg

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2018, 11:41:04 am »

Storey will be the starter at the beginning of the season. But if he falters, I see Jefferson getting a crack at the job. He is the most capable of the QBs, as far as running this type of offense. It will help him that he'll be there for spring drills.
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lakecityhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2018, 11:48:39 am »

why do you continuously put yourself in this position?



I'm terribly sorry! The next time I want an opinion I will PM you and ask for one!

ballz2thewall

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2018, 12:04:23 pm »

I'm terribly sorry! The next time I want an opinion I will PM you and ask for one!

i don't question your football knowledge at all. it's obvious you're well schooled.

it's your obvious knowledge that stands in contrast to your storey observations. i simply don't see what you see, and i could very well be entirely wrong.....but i don't think so.....

Jonbo

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2018, 01:04:22 pm »

I'm pulling for CN. I think KJ needs to ripen. I hate TS's arm (only thing I have against him, but it's enough).

avatar

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2018, 01:38:16 pm »

Otis posted 6 or 7 options for POSSIBLE transfer QB's.

Kolar has pledged to Iowa State, he was a back-up at OK State 26 yards of total offense.

Clark is the backup at Kentucky, will have to sit out a year so my guess is a big no.

Buechele of Texas has not announced a transfer yet. He was the starter and in 23 games he rushed 168 times for 268 yards. He threw 30 TD's with 16 INT's. He is a better passer than a runner and will have 2 years to play 2.

Hurts of Alabama and we all know what he can do. Has NOT announced a transfer and probably won't.

Fine of UNT and most are excited for what he did against us. Very similar to Jones, but not near as good running the ball. He has rushed 269 times for 145 yards.

Tate of Arizona is a true dual threat QB that everyone says is our ticket to success and by most accounts a true stud QB. He has NOT announced a transfer yet, but if he does he WILL be sought by many schools.

Hicks of SMU has announced a transfer and obviously knows the Morris system. He is truly a one-dimensional QB rushing 145 times for MINUS 145 yards. Has thrown 71 TD's with 34 INT's, but big yards and big TD's. Not the dual threat that everyone is looking for. He could be a stop-gap, but we have to consider that much of his success has been against AAC level teams.

Is there any one of these guys that we should feel like would be a substantial upgrade?

Tate or Buechele

Or a bushel of taters.

lakecityhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2018, 03:32:49 pm »

Guys, I have NEVER said that Storey will even approach ALL-SEC honors, but I also do not believe that replacing Storey will automatically make us a better football team. I do happen to believe that we could see the same type of jump with Storey that we often see with 2nd year players. That year of experience helps things to "slow down" a bit.

I think he will be better with his reads, I think his accuracy will improve and I think that his ability to run the game will get better. I honestly believe that Storey or Kelley would have been 25 to 30% better if our coach had settled on a starter by the 2nd week of spring practice. The simple point of not looking back would have helped them to focus on getting better. Getting the lions share of the reps would have made them better. Making most of the throws to the receivers would have helped them to better know what to expect come game time.

Our coaches failing to make a simple cut and dried decision on the starting QB probably cost us at least 2 wins and maybe more. There is no substitute for reps when it comes to developing that chemistry between QB and Receiver.
I will go on record that if we go through that same routine with Storey and Noland or Storey, Noland and Jones or Storey, Noland and a transfer that we will experience many of the very same problems. Morris has to name a starter and name him quickly.
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avatar

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2018, 05:31:30 pm »

Guys, I have NEVER said that Storey will even approach ALL-SEC honors, but I also do not believe that replacing Storey will automatically make us a better football team. I do happen to believe that we could see the same type of jump with Storey that we often see with 2nd year players. That year of experience helps things to "slow down" a bit.

I think he will be better with his reads, I think his accuracy will improve and I think that his ability to run the game will get better. I honestly believe that Storey or Kelley would have been 25 to 30% better if our coach had settled on a starter by the 2nd week of spring practice. The simple point of not looking back would have helped them to focus on getting better. Getting the lions share of the reps would have made them better. Making most of the throws to the receivers would have helped them to better know what to expect come game time.

Our coaches failing to make a simple cut and dried decision on the starting QB probably cost us at least 2 wins and maybe more. There is no substitute for reps when it comes to developing that chemistry between QB and Receiver.
I will go on record that if we go through that same routine with Storey and Noland or Storey, Noland and Jones or Storey, Noland and a transfer that we will experience many of the very same problems. Morris has to name a starter and name him quickly.

I respectfully disagree with your assessement based on everything I have seen or read.
It was not a failure on the part of the staff.  It is rather facile to  throw the blame on the coaches.
Of course they are the easiest target out there.

From what the coaches saw there was no separation between the two.
They were both throwing interceptions left and right.
Based on what I read Storey was throwing more of them, thus Kelley started the season.

In games Kelley continued to throw the picks and had the added liability
of being somewhat less than mobile (I found it painful to watch him try to run)
Due to the condition of the oline we needed a mobile qb.
The offense CCM wants to run calles for a dual threat qb.
There is no amount of reps that will turn Kelley into a dual threat qb
Storey while not a true dual threat did give us somewhat of a run game from that position.

The problem with storey is his lack of arm strength. He can make the short pass,
mediocre on the mid range and not good at all on the deep ball.

That allows the dbacks to cheat up and smother the short passes.
That also lets them be in position to stop the run.
Combine that with receivers who cannot get free and the results are what they are.

No one can say which qb learned more of the offense since we only installed about 30%.
We did not run that particularly well consistently enough.

Can Storey get better? Sure. Will he? ???????
One can hope. He will have to learn more of the offense, improve his accuracy and get a stronger arm.
All three can be done.
Do we want to gamble that that will happen or recruit a grad transfer who checks all the boxes?
My position as stated above is for the latter given the choices currently out there.

Perhaps competition will be motivation for Storey to make the effort to improve in the areas he needs to.
I hope so, and given what I have seen of his toughness I fully expect him to fight to keep his job. Right now
it is his to lose

hogfansince79

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2018, 05:39:14 pm »

I did ask for responses, but I wanted posters who knew what the hell they were talking about.

Like yourself obviously.


Quote
Hicks just spent all that time, (As you mentioned) at SMU in CCM's  system, and was the starter.  But did you not realize that even after all that he just got pushed out of that starting job by a freshman? 

This year (2018), in a new offense, with a new coach that didn't recruit him.  It is all up to who fits the new offense better.


Quote
Have you not looked at Hicks TD to INT ratio?  It's not good at all. 

Yep, I looked (has thrown for 9000+ yards and 71 touchdowns in career).... have you?  But, but, but, Storey's is better... right?

2016
NAME      CMP   ATT   YDS   CMP%   YDS/A   TD   INT   RAT
Ben Hicks   234   422   2930   55.5   6.94   19   15   121.5

2017
NAME      CMP   ATT   YDS   CMP%   YDS/A   TD   INT   RAT
Ben Hicks   276   472   3569   58.5   7.56   33   12   140.0

2018
NAME   CMP   ATT   YDS   CMP%   YDS/A   TD   INT   RAT
Storey   143   250   1584   57.2   6.34   11   10   116.9


Quote
Did you also know that Hicks is one dimensional?  Case closed!

Like I posted in another thread... it's about a wash on the running QB bs. 

NAME     CAR   YDS   AVG   LONG TD
T Storey    67   146   2.2  23   1
C Kelley     28   73   2.6   20   3
JS Jones      3   15   5.0     15
C Noland   26   4   0.2  15   0

(from 2017)
Ben Hicks   54   47   0.9  25   1

Hmmm... Hicks does appear to have the longest run.
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2018, 08:28:54 pm »

RIght now, I'd say it'll be Ty Storey. Another year in the same offense, with upgraded weaponry, and hopefully an improved O-line.

Be tough to beat out, in my opinion. It's not a rare thing to see a lot of improvement in a year.

To the naysayers: Flame on, I don't give a …. Then, go work someplace at somethin' half as hard as that kid has.

Surely you don't consider it "flaming" to say that Storey, in spite of his being a good young man and hard worker, has limitations in ability for this level..

Working hard is great, good character just as great, but those attributes need to be supplemented by SEC ability +. Storey has solid ability. That's not enough for us as a program right now IMO.

We need a QB who is a dual threat who can consistently hit deep throws. Hard to find, but we'd better if we want to be better as a team in 2019. This staff is looking at grad transfers for some reason..

If we bring one in and Storey beats him out, then so be it..
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ballz2thewall

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2018, 09:00:47 pm »

Surely you don't consider it "flaming" to say that Storey, in spite of his being a good young man and hard worker, has limitations in ability for this level..

Working hard is great, good character just as great, but those attributes need to be supplemented by SEC ability +. Storey has solid ability. That's not enough for us as a program right now IMO.

We need a QB who is a dual threat who can consistently hit deep throws. Hard to find, but we'd better if we want to be better as a team in 2019. This staff is looking at grad transfers for some reason..

If we bring one in and Storey beats him out, then so be it..


right, and this is a good way to put it. as it stands, it seems unlikely that ty is going to reliably fix that hitch in his throw. but if he does or doesn't, and is still the best we got, then he's the man.

but realistically, all things considered, my guess is that noland will win the spot given the status quo. i'm still not counting hyatt out, either. who knows.....
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lamont7906

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2018, 09:29:50 pm »

When it comes to a QB transfer the coaching staff will only go after a graduate who has one year remaining. As far as making this offense work you need a true dual threat or you need NFL talent pro QB who can read defenses and get the ball out quickly. Hicks comes here he is starting, Hicks can bring the offense along more than the QB's we have on campus because the coaches wouldn't have to waste time teaching the QB the plays, all they would have to do is spend more time with the recievers, lineman/TE and RB with the plays. Also with the QB knowing the play book that gives you an extra coach teaching the recievers where they need to be. Thats why Hicks make sense. As for Tate a true dual threat you can teach him along the season and a few plays at a time because his legs will work too. Don't see Storey starting with or without a transfer QB unless he improve dramatically and Noland is slacking on learning the play book. KJ will get peices of the play book to run in 4 games unless he is a quick learner and plays very well were you have no chioce but to keep him active.
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Hoggish

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2018, 09:33:31 pm »

right, and this is a good way to put it. as it stands, it seems unlikely that ty is going to reliably fix that hitch in his throw. but if he does or doesn't, and is still the best we got, then he's the man.

but realistically, all things considered, my guess is that noland will win the spot given the status quo. i'm still not counting hyatt out, either. who knows.....

Connor Noland needs to spend as much time as he can learning the offense.  When he did play, the play calling was worse than even when Ty was in the game.  I'm not saying this to be insulting, it's a fact.  But, if Conner Noland is going to be playing baseball in the spring, that's going to take away from he preparedness to take over the QB position in the fall while Ty and others will the the entire spring to study and to learn the offense.  I just think this puts Conner Noland behind the other QB's.
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Mr. Porkleone

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2018, 10:50:49 pm »

Storey not the answer.

liljo

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2018, 11:33:08 pm »

Surely you don't consider it "flaming" to say that Storey, in spite of his being a good young man and hard worker, has limitations in ability for this level..

Working hard is great, good character just as great, but those attributes need to be supplemented by SEC ability +. Storey has solid ability. That's not enough for us as a program right now IMO.

We need a QB who is a dual threat who can consistently hit deep throws. Hard to find, but we'd better if we want to be better as a team in 2019. This staff is looking at grad transfers for some reason..

If we bring one in and Storey beats him out, then so be it..

No sir! I agree with everything you posted here. I just wouldn’t bet against Ty winning the job again next year. No doubt the coaches are working to find an upgrade to the position. But it remains to be seen if they’ll be able to do it.

Ty may not start every game next year, but I bet he starts some of ‘em.

isavedjazz

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2018, 12:15:27 am »

Me
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Hogmatic

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2018, 09:11:15 am »

If the coaches don't find an improvement via grad transfer then I think Ty is serviceable with a better Oline and WRs.  Connor Noland will be quite good and should be better at opening up the RPO elements with his run threat.

I think we need to stop thinking we have to find somebody better than Storey.  We need to find somebody better than Noland!!!  CN will be our best QB after going through off season, spring and summer workouts with the new WRs; because he has a better arm, much better quickness and speed.

Tyro3

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2018, 09:17:54 am »

Connor Noland needs to spend as much time as he can learning the offense.  When he did play, the play calling was worse than even when Ty was in the game.  I'm not saying this to be insulting, it's a fact.  But, if Conner Noland is going to be playing baseball in the spring, that's going to take away from he preparedness to take over the QB position in the fall while Ty and others will the the entire spring to study and to learn the offense.  I just think this puts Conner Noland behind the other QB's.

I am going to say this one more time, the coaches have said that Noland WILL go through spring FOOTBALL practice!

Hoggish1

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2018, 09:18:18 am »

You might be amazed at what even an average QB can do when he has proper protection......

Correct.

Storey will prosper with a good O-line and excellent receivers.  His running ability will be put to good use when he needs to move out of designed play.

My money is on Storey being the starter in 2019.
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12247

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2018, 09:20:49 pm »

If the baseball and football HCs work together, Noland can play baseball and still attend Spring practice.  Now if he ends up a starting pitcher throwing 9 inning games and doing this immediately after or before football practice then his game(s) will suffer.  I never remember our baseball HC starting in a regular rotation, a freshman pitcher and rarely does any pitcher go 9 or even close to 9 innings.  Conner if allowed, can be successful in Spring football and still account to the baseball team if that is his desire.  Kyler just did that as an outfielder for the OK baseball team and QB for the football team.

The problem for our team is that we still don't have a successful QB to start.  I believe Ty will greatly improve as will John Steven and Conner and maybe Hyatt also.  I believe Morris hoped that Kelley could get by as it was clear the players preferred him as did much of the fans.  I also believe Morris realized early on he didn't have a good choice at QB and therefore opted for Kelley as the most experienced.  Even that failed and he was forced to go with a no experience person in the position.  Even now, Ty has 9 games of college experience and that after standing on the sideline working for Bret and learning nothing and getting no real workout over that 3 year period.  Ty was rustier than a knife left in salt water for 3 years. got.  It would not have surprised me if Noland had beaten out Ty this past season if he had gotten the reps that Kelley or Storey
got.  I don't won't Morris to name a QB like Bret did in the first 2 weeks of Spring practice but I hope we do name one or the first or second week of Fall.
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TheGrove68

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2018, 01:10:55 am »

"No arm = shrunken field for D to defend" Probably the most ill-informed comment ever posted on the 'Ville! It is comments like this that prove how very little some of you know about football in general and the Morris offense specifically.

Morris has stated PUBLICLY so many times that his is a running offense that likes to take shots down the field. The idea is to FORCE the defense to creep up to help defend the run game that operates off the run/pass option scheme. And yes, many of the pure RPO passes are short which just helps to get the safeties to creep forward.

This creates the one-on-one opportunities that Morris desires. The idea here is that the receiver should be able to beat the DB easier without help from the safety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJr3StoaNTM

Watch the throw at the 4:40 mark, Storey is running forward and throws on the move, the ball travels 49 yards in the air. Only 20 seconds later he throws a ball from his own 36 yard line that is caught at the opponent 13 yard line, MOST people would call that a deep throw. Storey does NOT have a Mallett type arm, but he has plenty of arm to make this offense work and not seeing that is just proves that you have either no knowledge of the game or a personal agenda.

The key to both throws was TIME! He had time which I believe comes from good O'Line play, in this case our O'Line simply out classed the opponent and when we faced better opponents that did NOT happen. Better D'Lines created havoc for our QB and it showed, couple that with less than stellar receiver play and you get 2-10! Yes, upgrading the O'Line, upgrading the receivers, the whole team having a year of experience and the coaches having a year of SEC experience should result in a better year. I doubt we see an 8 win season, but making a bowl game should not be out of the question.

A lot of QB's with tons of time can cock it and throw it that deep giving it their all,but clearly on the first throw he was running forward which momentum helped the yardage, which you can't expect to be the norm, and Launched a rainbow for that deep throw and on the 2nd throw he Basically planted and heaved it as far as he could throw it. A good QB with good arm strength can sit in the pocket and have good hip core rotation and shoulder arm  follow through and make those throws with much less effort and zip.

If Storey is your QB next year the offense will have to adjust. Storey is pretty average at best along the lines of Taylor Powell who we are trying to upgrading over QB wise. Storey is not a elite QB or even a guy who can be a difference maker in a game he is a game manager and with enough talent around him he could be serviceable but Ark. at this point doesn't have that caliber of players to have great success with a Storey level of QB.

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EasyRider81

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2018, 05:48:43 am »

It's popular on here to bash Storey but I think he starts and does well.

Give him the spring reps and fall practice reps as starter. Let him build chemistry with the receiving corps and continue to learn the playbook. Have an improved offensive line.

I think Noland has more upside but Storey is one tough kid who is all Hog and I think he will do well. Last year was a disaster and by the time he was thrown in the team was already in a downward spiral.

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2018, 01:36:58 pm »

I'd ask how is Storey between the ears?  Physical ability aside, is he shell shocked or is he able to brush off the beating he took last season and come out full of fire and confidence in the spring?  I don't want to know his command of the playbook but rather his command of the team.  Does he have the full faith and trust of his teammates?  Is Ty the guy they will rally around?  If a WR loafs or bails on a play is Storey going to light him up or look to the sideline, point at the guy, and shrug his shoulders?  Last question is can Ty get you bowl eligible?  If answer is no, then there is no reason investing in him further.  Even a crappy bowl would should tangible improvement for the team as a whole, but if there is no chance at that with Ty then why bother.  Might as well roll out, Noland or KJ and let them develop OTJ. 

Ty may shock us all.  Got to remember he sat and didn't really play competitive football for 3 years right?  Sure he practiced but no legit real game experience for 3 years.  So he was a first year part time starter on a really bad team. 

hview

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2018, 07:00:23 pm »

It'll be interesting to see Justin Hill perform at Spring practice. I don't think anyone seriously gives him a chance, but the young man is explosive.

checkraiser88

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2018, 07:09:45 pm »

Just to put it out there, Morris said today we are still actively pursuing transfer options at QB. This shoud make it 100% chance that we will have one. We def need depth at that position with so many freshmen
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Kevin

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2018, 07:21:57 pm »

Better o line play, better qb play.
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bennyl08

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2018, 08:26:39 pm »

Ty has a much better arm than most here are willing to admit. He has proven in real life that he can throw it 30 yards on an absolute rope and just this season has thrown the ball, in the air, 50+ yards more than once. Now, nobody is going to confuse him for some like Kaepernick or Stafford, but his arm is certainly not a liability. How many people on here complained about BA's arm back in the day before being shocked by his senior season? For others of us, the only surprise was that it took BA that long to finally put it all together.

Speaking of BA, Connor Noland, at least physically is BA 2.0. In general, it's best to let players write their own legacy, but my god, from size, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy, release, everything about him screams Brandon Allen. The biggest question for him becomes the mental game. Allen took several years to finally have everything click. Noland is coming off a similarly rough freshmen season, so we'll see how things develop.

Hyatt: He is a high ceiling, low floor player. Reminds me a bit of Armon Watts except for a QB. He came in extremely raw and even if Sean Peyton himself was our coach, he's going to tae some time before he's a serious competitor. In my guess, he'll still be a distant third or so this off season, showing some flashes, but not enough. However, come next off-season, I'd guess that if the light comes on, that's when it will happen and he could be in the thick of competition and maybe win it.

KJ Jefferson: Is a real long shot to win right now. He has talent, but unless he is a super star, isn't going to mentally come close.

Jones: In terms of athletic ability and arm, he's on par with any of the guys I listed first. However, he isn't appreciably any better, and he lacks anything close to ideal size. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up starting for us someday, but I wouldn't bet on it.

In short, we have 5 guys who could realistically end up starting for us next season. All of them have the arm and athleticism to be a good SEC starting QB. The biggest question is the mental aspect. We could be anywhere in QB play from 2013 BA to 2015 BA based solely on that factor alone.
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dsf

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2018, 08:35:10 pm »

Well, if people think that getting a transfer QB like Hicks is the answer then we're in serious trouble, he'd be far worse than anyone we have on the team.

Amazing you don't give Hicks any credit for his ability and having a winning record with Morris.  He would be great in my opinion, for one year.
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bennyl08

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2018, 10:03:30 pm »

Amazing you don't give Hicks any credit for his ability and having a winning record with Morris.  He would be great in my opinion, for one year.



For starters, this isn't a 1:1 comparison. Hick's tape is an entire season of highlights. Storey's is from a single game (and it's game highlights, though most all of our offensive highlights Storey was a key part of that game). Secondly, this was us going against an FCS opponent while Hick's tape does have some tougher competition against it.

So, if there's all these issues, why even bother you may ask? For starters, arm strength doesn't care about your competition level. If the ball travels fast or travels far, doesn't matter what field or who the defense on it is. Same with release. The last comparison that can be made is athleticism. The trick is quite simple. Watch the player move relative to the field and not relative to the other players. How quickly a player covers 5 yards, again is the same regardless of competition level.

What do we learn? Ty Storey clearly has better arm strength than Ben Hicks does and it isn't close. If you think that Storey's arm is what's limiting the offense, we'll be worse with Hicks. Further, Storey in one game (against inferior competition mind you) makes more impressive throws than Hicks did in the entire season (note that t he season is 2017, the last year that Morris was there). Of course, it's easier to make those throws from a technique and mental standpoint when the defense isn't as talented and that has to be taken into account. However, clearly, Storey does at worst have adequate SEC level arm strength and certainly better than Hicks shows. When things break down and he's under more pressure, maybe Hicks can keep his technique up and maintain more arm strength than Storey (you don't see this one way or the other too much in the short highlight video), but that's primarily a function of coaching rather than innate ability. If Hicks was able to achieve that (and I can't promise that he has) under Morris and Craddock, then it's very possible that Storey will too.

The biggest trick is maximizing potential with execution to optimize production. For example, you could have a top talent back who doesn't put in the effort (see Bryce Brown) get way more production than a low talent back (let's say me for example). OTOH, You can have a guy like Dennis Johnson who's an above average athlete with high level execution greatly outproduce a high level athlete with low level execution like Ronnie Wingo. Irony there is that Wingo I believe made more money in the NFL largely due to his high athletic potential while even in the NFL, Dennis actually put up more production.

End of the day, Storey is a higher level of potential. In 2018, Hicks was by far the higher level of execution (hard to compare production b/w different teams, situations, and opponents). The question becomes, what about 2019? This was Storey's first year really playing. 2nd largest increase in execution comes in your second year of significant playing time. Given Morris's recruiting and Hick's ceiling, if it's an option, i'd rather use a scholarship on an incoming recruit.
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King Kong

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2018, 10:13:46 pm »

I couldn’t disagree more with the poster above.
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bennyl08

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2018, 12:01:14 am »

I couldn’t disagree more with the poster above.

Which parts? (keep in mind, if you say all of it, then you are disagreeing that one tape is a season highlight film while the other is a game highlight...)

Do you disagree that a person can judge arm strength or agility/speed relative to the field?

Do you disagree that Storey has a stronger arm than Hicks? If so, what throws from the videos that I linked would support your argument? Or is your argument purely emotional and not based in any facts?

Do you disagree that Ty is better able to showcase his arm strength when he is able to comfortably sit in the pocket and throw to a more open receiver than in games where the receivers aren't open and he is worried about being hit?

Do you disagree that a QB who has trained himself/been trained better can display better arm strength even under worse conditions by maintaining proper technique?

Do you disagree that production is a combination of raw talent and execution of said talent (via studying film, knowing the playbook, working on technique, etc...)?

Do you disagree that a 6'2 237 pound RB who runs a 4.47 forty yard dash is going to be considered a higher athletic potential than a 5'6" 196 pound RB who runs a similar 4.48? (for comparison, the rest of their pro day stats were near identical to each other, i.e. 32.5" vertical vs a 33", both with exactly a 4.53 20 yd shuttle, etc...), but one doing all that while weighing 40 pounds more.

Do you disagree that players make a big jump from year one of playing to year two of playing?

Those are pretty much every single point I brought up. I mean, at best, the only really debatable aspect is whether or not Storey has a stronger arm. I posted video evidence that IMO is pretty strong evidence of that. Maybe you disagree about Dennis vs Wingo, but i mean, 5'6 and half vs 6'2, 196 at the pro day vs 237. Most people consider the latter more impressive. I guess you could also disagree that Johnson put up better numbers than Wingo, but that's a pretty difficult argument to make considering those numbers are pretty one sided.

So, unless you disagree with some pretty elementary football knowledge level statements, sounds like you really only disagree with one, argument of my post about arm strength. If I'm wrong and you actually disagree with a lot more, I'd love to hear some of your arguments against.
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2018, 01:09:26 am »

People can debate arm strength until they're blue in the face, but I've got one for those old enough to recall the 80's: who had a stronger arm Marino or Montana?

Easily the nod goes to Marino, but who was the better QB? The Marino fans used to say the guy had nothing around him while Montana had Jerry Rice, etc. That was bunk!

Montana got his first SB ring throwing to a 12th round draft pick in Dwight Clark, a TE who had been castoff by half the NFL in Charlie Young and RBs like Lenvil Elliott and Earl Cooper, no HOFers there.

Yes, the system installed by Bill Walsh had a lot to do with it, but Montana excelled after Walsh retired, both in SF and in KC.

Meanwhile Marino had the winningest HC in NFL history but the apologists still cling to their boneheaded theory that Marino had no help..

As far as Hicks and Storey, I don't see a big difference in arm talent. The biggest problem with Storey is indecision. He doesn't get the ball out on time way too often.

Some of that could be the beating he took, some on rust, but it seems to me if a guy is getting beaten up, he should be more likely to get the ball out of his hand rather than hold it too long which Storey did so often.

He might take a step up with better WRs. On TV you can't see the entire field, maybe the problem was lack of separation by the WRs, so he held the ball..

Hicks is hard to judge because he was throwing to two guys now in the NFL who may have made him look better than what he was or is..

We may have some like that coming in physically, but Sutton was a JR and Quinn a 5th year guy. The kids we have may take time to deal with the mugging of WRs at the LOS that occurs in the SEC, especially 'Bama.

I'm not sure Hicks would be an upgrade, but I think this staff who has seen both in many practices and several games are in the best position to know.

If they think Hicks can come in and start due to his knowledge of the offense, bring him in if we don't have better options like Buechele. If they think he can't beat out Storey and we can't get better, go with the status quo.

There is a reason we wanted Bryant and not just for old times sake. That signaled to me that the staff thinks we can upgrade. Bryant had games where he wasn't exactly scintillating at Clemson.

JSJ looks like he is 5'8 or 5'9 at most and looked lost when he played. Noland has the baseball situation which will delay his development, Hyatt couldn't even get on the field and KJ will be a raw FR with no spring ball under his belt.

That leaves Storey or a grad transfer. If Noland was an established starter like Russell Wilson was at NC St. it might be different. He wasn't asked to do much vs Tulsa. He showed ability in the other games, but still has much to prove.

Maybe Storey will make a jump in his 2nd year, but he needs to be more decisive, more accurate and read defenses much better. I don't recall what game it was, but he missed a blitz the rest of us could see from a mile away.

Boyd was on his left and the blitz was coming from the right. Instead of moving Boyd, he left him on the left where he chipped a DE while no one even looked at the blitzer who came free and earholed Storey.

It's possible Boyd missed it, after all he was in on the play where he and Jones ran headlong into one another on the tap pass or jet sweep, but it's hard to believe no one even looked the blitzer's way..
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Nashville Fan

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2018, 07:15:23 am »

You might be amazed at what even an average QB can do when he has proper protection......
and Receivers who run the correct routes.
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bennyl08

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2018, 07:56:41 am »

... (deleted to save space)

Absolutely agree about you on how arm strength is not the end all be all. To put it simply, ask me which qb has a higher ceiling, Logan Thomas or Tom Brady, and it's Logan Thomas all day every day. As me who I'd rather have lead my team, well, that answer is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated.

It is my strongly held belief that the only separating players like Brady and Rodgers and Bress and so on from the rest of the pack is the several inches between the ears, and not even intelligence, but motivation. Yes, to a certain degree, there probably is some genetics limiting how quickly your brain can read and react to things which comes into play, but the biggest part is how much somebody truly wants to live the lifestyle that would lead them to greatness.

Heck, even if I had that much talent, I don't think I'd want to try and be the goat. Legacy is great, but I want to have fun and enjoy this one life I have to live too.

As for comparing the two, I think the magnitude in difference of arm strengths isn't huge b/w them but to my eyes, while not a huge difference, it's a very clear difference. Accuracy looks to be pretty similar as is decision making. Again, this is one FCS game vs a season highlight comparison. You compare SMU's game for some other sun belt team or whatever conference and Storey vs say LSU, and yeah, in comparison, Hicks has a stronger arm, better accuracy, and improved decision making. But that's all relative, especially with Hicks having receivers who were much better than their competition and and OL that was better relative to his weaker competition too. When given similar time in the pocket, confidence, and open receivers to find as Hicks, Storey in my eyes looks better. It's when he's taken far worse a beating, is under more pressure, and doesn't have receivers getting open that he freezes longer, loses his technique, and as a result, loses a lot of power on his throws.
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liljo

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2018, 09:24:07 am »

To the OP:

Ty's my Storey, and I'm stickin' to it.

ballz2thewall

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2018, 10:35:29 am »

Absolutely agree about you on how arm strength is not the end all be all. To put it simply, ask me which qb has a higher ceiling, Logan Thomas or Tom Brady, and it's Logan Thomas all day every day. As me who I'd rather have lead my team, well, that answer is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated.

It is my strongly held belief that the only separating players like Brady and Rodgers and Bress and so on from the rest of the pack is the several inches between the ears, and not even intelligence, but motivation. Yes, to a certain degree, there probably is some genetics limiting how quickly your brain can read and react to things which comes into play, but the biggest part is how much somebody truly wants to live the lifestyle that would lead them to greatness.

Heck, even if I had that much talent, I don't think I'd want to try and be the goat. Legacy is great, but I want to have fun and enjoy this one life I have to live too.

As for comparing the two, I think the magnitude in difference of arm strengths isn't huge b/w them but to my eyes, while not a huge difference, it's a very clear difference. Accuracy looks to be pretty similar as is decision making. Again, this is one FCS game vs a season highlight comparison. You compare SMU's game for some other sun belt team or whatever conference and Storey vs say LSU, and yeah, in comparison, Hicks has a stronger arm, better accuracy, and improved decision making. But that's all relative, especially with Hicks having receivers who were much better than their competition and and OL that was better relative to his weaker competition too. When given similar time in the pocket, confidence, and open receivers to find as Hicks, Storey in my eyes looks better. It's when he's taken far worse a beating, is under more pressure, and doesn't have receivers getting open that he freezes longer, loses his technique, and as a result, loses a lot of power on his throws.

re storey's arm strength.

to my eyes it's his motion that is the issue. motion affects flight and such; yeah, i get that. but actual "strength" is probably fine. the limitations are in his motion in my opinion.

which isn't worth diddly....
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hogfansince79

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2018, 11:08:04 am »

Absolutely agree about you on how arm strength is not the end all be all. To put it simply, ask me which qb has a higher ceiling, Logan Thomas or Tom Brady, and it's Logan Thomas all day every day. As me who I'd rather have lead my team, well, that answer is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated.

It is my strongly held belief that the only separating players like Brady and Rodgers and Bress and so on from the rest of the pack is the several inches between the ears, and not even intelligence, but motivation. Yes, to a certain degree, there probably is some genetics limiting how quickly your brain can read and react to things which comes into play, but the biggest part is how much somebody truly wants to live the lifestyle that would lead them to greatness.

Heck, even if I had that much talent, I don't think I'd want to try and be the goat. Legacy is great, but I want to have fun and enjoy this one life I have to live too.

As for comparing the two, I think the magnitude in difference of arm strengths isn't huge b/w them but to my eyes, while not a huge difference, it's a very clear difference. Accuracy looks to be pretty similar as is decision making. Again, this is one FCS game vs a season highlight comparison. You compare SMU's game for some other sun belt team or whatever conference and Storey vs say LSU, and yeah, in comparison, Hicks has a stronger arm, better accuracy, and improved decision making. But that's all relative, especially with Hicks having receivers who were much better than their competition and and OL that was better relative to his weaker competition too. When given similar time in the pocket, confidence, and open receivers to find as Hicks, Storey in my eyes looks better. It's when he's taken far worse a beating, is under more pressure, and doesn't have receivers getting open that he freezes longer, loses his technique, and as a result, loses a lot of power on his throws.

There are several passes on Hicks tape that shows he has just as much arm strength as Storey.  Also, I believe he is more accurate on the deep throws.  Storey's best games was the one in the clip you posted and Ole Miss.  To me, it's a wash.

Will Storey get better this year running the offense... I don't know.  But, here is what I keep coming back to... Hicks was in CCM's system for about 3 years, starting the last 2 years.  If he came here, then it would be his 4th year in the system.  Think about that for a second.  How much is that worth to a QB to be in the same system 4 years?  How much more of the offense could we run with Hicks, than with Storey?

Personally, I believe Hicks would be a great bridge for the future for (probably between) KJ or Noland.
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BossHawg_Outlaw

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2018, 11:51:42 am »

No way Ty will start they have zero faith in him.  CCM said they would even wait and take a Grad QB in early summer if it took that long.  That makes things pretty clear anyone but Storey.
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HogPharmer

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2018, 12:29:33 pm »

It'll be interesting to see Justin Hill perform at Spring practice. I don't think anyone seriously gives him a chance, but the young man is explosive.

Not as explosive as Justice Hill
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liljo

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #96 on: December 20, 2018, 02:20:11 pm »

No way Ty will start they have zero faith in him.  CCM said they would even wait and take a Grad QB in early summer if it took that long.  That makes things pretty clear anyone but Storey.
We shall see.

Bet he does, though. Again, maybe (probably) not all season, but I bet he cracks the starting lineup in a real live football game in 2019.

Bet.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #97 on: December 20, 2018, 02:46:52 pm »

No way Ty will start they have zero faith in him.  CCM said they would even wait and take a Grad QB in early summer if it took that long.  That makes things pretty clear anyone but Storey.
Seriously, how hard is this to figure out? It's not just Storey. Morris clearly wants somebody with better talent and more experience than is available right now or he would not be looking as hard as he is for an older QB.

BTW the clear problem with counting on Jefferson is that he's not even going to be on campus until next summer.

liljo

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Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #98 on: December 20, 2018, 03:14:45 pm »

Seriously, how hard is this to figure out? It's not just Storey. Morris clearly wants somebody with better talent and more experience than is available right now or he would not be looking as hard as he is for an older QB.

BTW the clear problem with counting on Jefferson is that he's not even going to be on campus until next summer.

Couldn't agree with you more on what Coach Morris clearly wants.

Still, bettin' Ty to start some games in 2019.
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plumbhog

Re: Who will be the Hog QB next year
« Reply #99 on: December 20, 2018, 05:42:29 pm »

Couldn't agree with you more on what Coach Morris clearly wants.

Still, bettin' Ty to start some games in 2019.
And I seriously doubt it has anything to do with arm strength or talent but more of the fact that Storey will be a senior that has yet to be developed.
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