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Author Topic: Serious Question...  (Read 2537 times)

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FraggleHog

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Serious Question...
« on: December 06, 2018, 12:57:30 pm »

Totally not trying to flame or troll, but my only concern with this team is how young they are. I remember the 2008-09 season we had a lot of highly regarded recruits (Fortson, Clarke, etc.) and they started out great beating the likes of #4 OU and #7 Texas jumping out to a 12-1 record and then they completely fell flat on their face once conference play started finishing the season 14-16. I remember analysts attributing the "tale of 2 seasons" to a whole bunch of young'ns basically running out of gas as they weren't prepared for the rigors of a long college basketball season. I really don't remember the league being that strong that year either.

I totally hope I'm wrong, but what makes this team different than that one? I was younger then and don't remember all the details.

Anyways... Great Win Last Night! Now I'll duck and hide
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Arkansas Hog in Dallas

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 12:58:24 pm »

A. The fact we have a lottery pick center
B. John Pelfrey is no longer the HC.

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hawg66

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 01:02:18 pm »

Totally not trying to flame or troll either but I too have a serious question. On the play where Gafford went up and caught the guyís shot was that a rebound, a blocked shot or both?

Inquiring  minds want to know 🧐
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 01:03:11 pm »

Totally not trying to flame or troll either but I too have a serious question. On the play where Gafford went up and caught the guyís shot was that a rebound, a blocked shot or both?

Enquiring minds want to know 🧐

Or a steal?
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hawg66

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 01:04:36 pm »

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razorback1829

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 01:05:29 pm »

Totally not trying to flame or troll either but I too have a serious question. On the play where Gafford went up and caught the guyís shot was that a rebound, a blocked shot or both?

Inquiring  minds want to know 🧐

 Is it possible it can be all three??
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k.c.hawg

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 01:17:00 pm »

This team is not without some experience. I was very glad last night to hear players had referred to Bailey as a locker room leader. Harris is in his 2nd year in the system and is a 3 yr player, Gabe and Gafford are on their 2nd year. Jones is a 2nd year guy, Embery-Simpson and Chaney both left home and played at prep schools which is more similar to the college routine than high school ball. Probably the biggest difference in these two teams would be the defense and rebounding abilities.

They will certainly have some growing pains at some point, but I definitely like the make up of this team.
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a0ashle

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2018, 01:20:39 pm »

When CSU pulled it to 67-60 with 12:00 left that was prime implosion candidate, even against an over matched team. What did they do? Went on a 13-0 run after the timout and finish the final twelve outscoring CSU 31-14. That was a good sign and a good experience for our young guys to have.

Breems

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2018, 01:20:44 pm »

There were plenty of problems with that team. Selfish players, chemistry issues, constant suspensions, and an offense with 2 plays (Fortson/Washington PnR and running Clarke in circles around the baseline). They played over their heads for those 2 games behind the energy of Bud Walton Arena and unexpected contributions from Marcus.

This team may also have issues once conference play hits, but it's much more likely to be caused by freshmen mistakes/timidness and depth issues.

phadedhawg

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 01:30:06 pm »


This team may also have issues once conference play hits, but it's much more likely to be caused by freshmen mistakes/timidness and depth issues.

yep, not to be negative but I put very little faith in pre conference season success.  There have been a lot of years where we looked like the real deal and then hovered near .500 in conference.  We look better than I thought we would at this stage but we haven't played any SEC teams or any SEC refs yet.
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BaconTheSaddleAgain

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 01:31:39 pm »

Totally not trying to flame or troll, but my only concern with this team is how young they are. I remember the 2008-09 season we had a lot of highly regarded recruits (Fortson, Clarke, etc.) and they started out great beating the likes of #4 OU and #7 Texas jumping out to a 12-1 record and then they completely fell flat on their face once conference play started finishing the season 14-16. I remember analysts attributing the "tale of 2 seasons" to a whole bunch of young'ns basically running out of gas as they weren't prepared for the rigors of a long college basketball season. I really don't remember the league being that strong that year either.

I totally hope I'm wrong, but what makes this team different than that one? I was younger then and don't remember all the details.

Anyways... Great Win Last Night! Now I'll duck and hide

One difference is that these recruits apparently enjoy playing defense.

Adam Stokes

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 01:34:17 pm »

Are posters absolutely too high on this team based on the competition we've played? Resounding yes. But we aren't 2008-09.

I remember 2008, while watching and we won those two games, I remember thinking, "Yes we won, but we didn't look that great doing it. The other team just played bleh and we barely outplayed them." Posters were spouting off our 4-seed in bracket projections and I just wasn't feeling it. I don't think anyone saw the 2-14 coming, but I wasn't thinking we were at tournament lock after those games. I said the same thing about BYU earlier this year when they beat a top-10 Wisconsin team. Yeah they won, but they didn't look that great, they just happened to outplay a team that didn't play well that night. They jumped up to #20, but I still thought they were barely a top 50 team. They finished 6-6, and Wisconsin finished 7-5.

I don't get that feeling with this team. I still don't think we finish top 5 in the SEC, we will likely finish 7th or 8th and just miss out on the NCAAT, but this team lacks many of the issues that would cause a late season slide. We rank #7 out of 300+ teams in assists per game. We don't have chemistry issues. Because there isn't a single go-to guy on offense the team works better to get good shots with everyone on the floor. We have a legit PG, legit C, and a legit shooter. We haven't had all those things in a LONG time.
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razorback1829

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 01:37:24 pm »

Are posters absolutely too high on this team based on the competition we've played? Resounding yes. But we aren't 2008-09.

I remember 2008, while watching and we won those two games, I remember thinking, "Yes we won, but we didn't look that great doing it. The other team just played bleh and we barely outplayed them." Posters were spouting off our 4-seed in bracket projections and I just wasn't feeling it. I don't think anyone saw the 2-14 coming, but I wasn't thinking we were at tournament lock after those games. I said the same thing about BYU earlier this year when they beat a top-10 Wisconsin team. Yeah they won, but they didn't look that great, they just happened to outplay a team that didn't play well that night. They jumped up to #20, but I still thought they were barely a top 50 team. They finished 6-6, and Wisconsin finished 7-5.

I don't get that feeling with this team. I still don't think we finish top 5 in the SEC, we will likely finish 7th or 8th and just miss out on the NCAAT, but this team lacks many of the issues that would cause a late season slide. We rank #7 out of 300+ teams in assists per game. We don't have chemistry issues. Because there isn't a single go-to guy on offense the team works better to get good shots with everyone on the floor. We have a legit PG, legit C, and a legit shooter. We haven't had all those things in a LONG time.

Just give me Jalen Harris with a Gafford pick and roll. Joe and Jones on the wings. Itís that simple. Many options and a guy in Harris who is almost unguardable one on one.

Swinesong1

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 01:44:10 pm »

Just give me Jalen Harris with a Gafford pick and roll. Joe and Jones on the wings. Itís that simple. Many options and a guy in Harris who is almost unguardable one on one.
There was the one play where Harris and Gafford were involved in the pick and roll and there was a Hog on each wing.  Harris kept penetrating deeper and deeper and the defense couldn't decide whether to stick with him, Gafford or the wings.  Harris laid it in.  I thought it should have been an And1 too.  I just remember saying out loud "that was beautiful to see.'
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razorback1829

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 01:45:08 pm »

There the one play where Harris and Gafford were involved in the pick and roll and there was a Hog on each wing.  Harris kept penetrating deeper and deeper and the defense couldn't decide whether to stick with him, Gafford or the wings.  Harris laid it in.  I thought it should have been an And1 too.  I just remember saying out loud "that was beautiful to see.'

CMA was calling beautiful sets last nite. Gotta give props.

Foshodo

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 02:08:01 pm »

A lot of those talented guys didn't have many places to go better than Arkansas due to attitudes. That along with Washingtons back tricking out on him and monk not being able to play the second half of the season is why that season bombed... plus the fact pelphrey wasn't ready for that job...

This team is fun and seems to enjoy itself, I think it starts with Gaffords positive attitude and eagerness and is benefited by most of the freshman playing with each other previously. The only two things I've seen as concerning is Henderson not being given minutes to develop and at times, mason has been on a fast break with other guys and instead of trying to get the other guys involved or sharing he finishes it off himself.

This team is competing with the Bradley/Reid class as my favorite ever... and I say that even if they do fall on hard times during the SEC play. I didn't have a set number of wins I expected this year, I just wanted to see how the players and system worked together and it seems like it's a great fit.

I loved seeing Chaney and Sills and Simpson have increased roles last night... I understand Henderson might have limitations but I don't want him to transfer out due to a wasted freshman season... we'll need him in the future

Letsroll1200

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 02:46:55 pm »

A lot of those talented guys didn't have many places to go better than Arkansas due to attitudes. That along with Washingtons back tricking out on him and monk not being able to play the second half of the season is why that season bombed... plus the fact pelphrey wasn't ready for that job...

This team is fun and seems to enjoy itself, I think it starts with Gaffords positive attitude and eagerness and is benefited by most of the freshman playing with each other previously. The only two things I've seen as concerning is Henderson not being given minutes to develop and at times, mason has been on a fast break with other guys and instead of trying to get the other guys involved or sharing he finishes it off himself.

This team is competing with the Bradley/Reid class as my favorite ever... and I say that even if they do fall on hard times during the SEC play. I didn't have a set number of wins I expected this year, I just wanted to see how the players and system worked together and it seems like it's a great fit.

I loved seeing Chaney and Sills and Simpson have increased roles last night... I understand Henderson might have limitations but I don't want him to transfer out due to a wasted freshman season... we'll need him in the future

Henderson is just not ready. If he was ready, he would be playing like the rest of the freshman class (Sills, Embery, Phillips, Joe, Chaney). He doesn't need to be on the floor if he's not ready and lose the confidence he does have.

TebowHater

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 03:02:05 pm »

mason has been on a fast break with other guys and instead of trying to get the other guys involved or sharing he finishes it off himself.

This is very true. Everyone has been talking about how this team has the best chemistry we've seen and is super unselfish, which is resoundingly true, but Jones definitely has done this several times. I was surprised no one had brought up his selfishness yet. Not trying to be negative and I hope it gets better but it is just extremely apparent. Literally 3 on 1's and he doesn't pass.
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BannerMountainMan

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 03:06:03 pm »

This is very true. Everyone has been talking about how this team has the best chemistry we've seen and is super unselfish, which is resoundingly true, but Jones definitely has done this several times. I was surprised no one had brought up his selfishness yet. Not trying to be negative and I hope it gets better but it is just extremely apparent. Literally 3 on 1's and he doesn't pass.
He was literally on the same path as Desi, at that point just score, no reason to pass it off, I canít believe people have to dig this deep to try to find some negative. This is what gets crap started.

daprospecta

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 03:08:31 pm »

Henderson is just not ready. If he was ready, he would be playing like the rest of the freshman class (Sills, Embery, Phillips, Joe, Chaney). He doesn't need to be on the floor if he's not ready and lose the confidence he does have.
Totally disagree.  My first year on campus, I had to go against Shawn Andrews and Jason Peters EVERY PRACTICE 2v1 because I was the heaviest freshman D-lineman.  Did it suck getting my but kicked daily? Yes, but it made me a much better player.  Henderson knows he needs to work on a few things but let him learn in practice AND in blowout wins.
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TebowHater

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 03:08:34 pm »

He was literally on the same path as Desi, at that point just score, no reason to pass it off, I canít believe people have to dig this deep to try to find some negative. This is what gets crap started.

This wasn't from last night at all. I only was able to watch the first half but didn't see any issues last night.

It was atrocious - you would agree if you saw it. If the games are posted online I could try to find. And it has happened a couple of other times that were very similar.
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daprospecta

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 03:10:57 pm »

This is very true. Everyone has been talking about how this team has the best chemistry we've seen and is super unselfish, which is resoundingly true, but Jones definitely has done this several times. I was surprised no one had brought up his selfishness yet. Not trying to be negative and I hope it gets better but it is just extremely apparent. Literally 3 on 1's and he doesn't pass.
I have noticed it but it usually works out so I think that's why no one complains. He is not selfish though. He had several assists to Joe during his career high night the game before. 
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TebowHater

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 03:14:30 pm »

I have noticed it but it usually works out so I think that's why no one complains. He is not selfish though. He had several assists to Joe during his career high night the game before.

That's fair. I do think he at least drew a foul the real bad one I am thinking of. Agree he assists.
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lstewart

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 03:23:16 pm »

This group is fun, and absolutely better than I expected. That said, I suspect SEC play will bring our more giddy fans down in a hurry. I think we will usually win at home, and usually lose on the road. Probably will finish one game or so above or below 500. That will probably put us somewhere around the NCAA tourney bubble, just in, or just out. This team's big success is probably a couple of years away, if we can keep them all together. That never seems to happen though.
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Boarmonger

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2018, 03:28:01 pm »

These guys play defense and defense travels.  I'm not worried about the SEC Slate.  They enjoy playing defense and that is most of the battle.  You can win a lot of games just playing great defense.
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gmarv

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2018, 03:42:11 pm »

These guys seem like they have been playing together a heck of a lot longer than 7 games.I did not get to watch last night but the rest I've seen, they never seem rattled or frustrated just so calm as a team.
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hawgsalot

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2018, 03:43:08 pm »

Team reminds me more of the 93 young team than the 08.  They are straight up killers on D can shoot, jump out of the gym and are long at every position on the floor.  If Gafford stayed another year this would be a final 4 type team.
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FraggleHog

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2018, 03:55:18 pm »

Team reminds me more of the 93 young team than the 08.  They are straight up killers on D can shoot, jump out of the gym and are long at every position on the floor.  If Gafford stayed another year this would be a final 4 type team.

I didn't say they reminded me of the '08 team... I simply stated that the makeup of the team (youth)/ and season start were similar. No question MA is a better coach than Pelphrey. Just something that popped in my head.
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Kevin

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2018, 04:05:08 pm »

i was at practice one day. after practice talking to pelphrey, clarke & sanchez were still in the arena getting shots up. Pel said you know why these guys are still out here. cause they don't want to be a part of the crap that is going on in the locker room right now.

spoke volumes about those teams.

010HogFan

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2018, 04:18:26 pm »

I don't think we should be too scared of any of the SEC teams. I think they should be scared of us.

Letsroll1200

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 04:27:05 pm »

Totally disagree.  My first year on campus, I had to go against Shawn Andrews and Jason Peters EVERY PRACTICE 2v1 because I was the heaviest freshman D-lineman.  Did it suck getting my but kicked daily? Yes, but it made me a much better player.  Henderson knows he needs to work on a few things but let him learn in practice AND in blowout wins.

That's exactly what he is getting at this point. He's practicing and getting in the games when there is a blowout. Henderson played last night.

Piglet

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 04:35:04 pm »

The OP makes a good point.  It's a little too early to get too hyped up over this team.  The youth and inexperience will eventually show up in some games once we get in conference play. I am hoping they beat most of the teams they are supposed to beat, steal a couple of games, continue to get better, and peak near the end of the season. 

I am pleased they have gotten off to a good start in the non-conference schedule.  This will definitely help if they get on the bubble.

FraggleHog

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 04:43:29 pm »

FWIW, Lunardi has the Hogs as the 2nd team of his Last Four In.
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Breems

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 05:24:42 pm »

The OP makes a good point.  It's a little too early to get too hyped up over this team.  The youth and inexperience will eventually show up in some games once we get in conference play. I am hoping they beat most of the teams they are supposed to beat, steal a couple of games, continue to get better, and peak near the end of the season. 

I am pleased they have gotten off to a good start in the non-conference schedule.  This will definitely help if they get on the bubble.


Don't worry about everyone getting too hyped up.

We'll drop a game soon and Hogville will start up Season 8 of Fire Mike: Do We Even Run An Offense With Set Plays?

gmarv

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2018, 05:45:58 pm »


Don't worry about everyone getting too hyped up.

We'll drop a game soon and Hogville will start up Season 8 of Fire Mike: Do We Even Run An Offense With Set Plays?
Wash rinse repeat after every loss.
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lynbug

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 05:57:49 pm »

This team is giving us plenty to get excited about in non-con.  However, January is when things really get started.  Getting more apprehensive game by game.
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TebowHater

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2018, 06:01:47 pm »

Here is link to PC today with Gaffard and Keyshawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-bW4DLQvJw
CMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exCbG0x1LoU

Sounds like Dan caught a cold out in that Colorado air.

SIAP
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BannerMountainMan

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 06:20:18 pm »

Here is link to PC today with Gaffard and Keyshawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-bW4DLQvJw
CMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exCbG0x1LoU

Sounds like Dan caught a cold out in that Colorado air.

SIAP
thread already Brotha
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TushCrush

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2018, 07:05:10 pm »




To the OP ... don't get serious 8) Just watch closely and enjoy the ride. I like the looks of Henderson so far. He seems to be a missing link in that he would be another big. We'll need him in the SEC.
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TushCrush

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2018, 07:11:33 pm »

Or a steal?
Totally not trying to flame or troll either but I too have a serious question. On the play where Gafford went up and caught the guyís shot was that a rebound, a blocked shot or both?

Inquiring  minds want to know 🧐
I used to play with some guys who would go up into air space and snatch a shot. I'm pretty sure it's just a blocked shot. A rebound is a shot that makes it to the rim.
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alohawg

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 07:20:26 pm »

Since this team is not going to win any championships this year, I'll just enjoy the ride. If they just play somewhat like last night most games, it's gonna be a fun year regardless.
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Pignominious

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 07:23:46 pm »

The 08-09 teamís wins against OU and Texas were as fluky as they come. Donít forget: that same team earlier lost to Missouri State (away), squeaked by South Alabama, and needed overtime to beat Southeast Louisiana. One game after beating UT, the Hogs were soundly trounced by a decent but far from great Miss State team at home. That wasnít youth, it was a lack of conditioning and a failure to find player that fit into any coherent system.

BWA collectively willed those two games. That was as good as it ever got under Pelphrey. They cratered and never recovered. We were bad. The signs were there.

This teamís future isnít written, but I donít think 08-09 is a good comparison. That team needed OT to beat SE Louisiana in game one at home. This team lost in OT to a solid Texas team on a neutral floor.

Hogginintheville

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 10:34:51 pm »

When CSU pulled it to 67-60 with 12:00 left that was prime implosion candidate, even against an over matched team. What did they do? Went on a 13-0 run after the timout and finish the final twelve outscoring CSU 31-14. That was a good sign and a good experience for our young guys to have.
This wonít be the last big run a team has on us this year(inexperienced) but the way they responded was fantastic.
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Foshodo

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 01:28:13 am »

He was literally on the same path as Desi, at that point just score, no reason to pass it off, I canít believe people have to dig this deep to try to find some negative. This is what gets crap started.


not trying to start anything... just something i've noticed more than a few times now... he is a great player with a great all-aroung game. i just worry when things arent going as well for the team will things like this might be a thorn.
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Smithian

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 01:48:24 am »

That game against Oklahoma was one of my coolest experiences ever at Bud Walton. That season also had one of the best ever pregame intro video at Bud Walton.

Other than Qualls game winner versus UK, I think Michael Washington pump fake and drive and slam with the foul over Damion James against Texas may just be the play of the millennium for the Razorbacks. Steven Hill's game winner over Tennessee is up there.

Having said that, no same person thought those games would be anything but a blowout. They came back down to Earth in a hurry. I remember going to the Mississippi State game and by halftime thinking we wouldn't win another game all season and it turned out that prophesy almost came true.

That squad had some major off the court issues and had a coach not quite ready for prime time. Changes were made and improvements occurred, but the hole was too deep to ever dig out of.

Foshodo

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 01:54:46 am »

That game against Oklahoma was one of my coolest experiences ever at Bud Walton. That season also had one of the best ever pregame intro video at Bud Walton.

Other than Qualls game winner versus UK, I think Michael Washington pump fake and drive and slam with the foul over Damion James against Texas may just be the play of the millennium for the Razorbacks. Steven Hill's game winner over Tennessee is up there.

Having said that, no same person thought those games would be anything but a blowout. They came back down to Earth in a hurry. I remember going to the Mississippi State game and by halftime thinking we wouldn't win another game all season and it turned out that prophesy almost came true.

That squad had some major off the court issues and had a coach not quite ready for prime time. Changes were made and improvements occurred, but the hole was too deep to ever dig out of.

i know it's not a "play" but where do ya rank Sanchez going off vs Vandy?
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Smithian

Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 02:10:44 am »

i know it's not a "play" but where do ya rank Sanchez going off vs Vandy?
Most our of body experience I've had as a Razorback fan. It was during that decade long stretch of "Hogs can't win on the road" and they went in there a beat a ranked Vandy team. It has been a long time, but I think after a while the Razorbacks just started letting Rotnei Clark and Sanchez play two man basketball and it was amazing. Clarke was just jacking threes and Sanchez looked like Karl Malone.

They then went home and promptly restored order to the universe by losing a stunningly bad game to Georgia.

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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 02:27:15 am »

Totally not trying to flame or troll either but I too have a serious question. On the play where Gafford went up and caught the guyís shot was that a rebound, a blocked shot or both?

Inquiring  minds want to know 🧐
yes
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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 02:28:30 am »

Here is link to PC today with Gaffard and Keyshawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-bW4DLQvJw
CMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exCbG0x1LoU

Sounds like Dan caught a cold out in that Colorado air.

SIAP
cold air doesn't cause upper respiratory viruses
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Re: Serious Question...
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 02:33:57 am »

I would add that there were character issues with that group and coupled with a staff that was not as professional as today's made for a disaster in the making.
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