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Author Topic: Heisman Thoughts....  (Read 3098 times)

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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2018, 05:32:31 am »

I think you missed the point. Someone saying that Tebow shouldn't get a Heisman because he didn't go to a high school that he played for is just hating on someone.

Plus you reinforced my point. Thanks!

It wouldnít have mattered to me no matter what player and who they are. If they didnít attend the high school, they shouldnít be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities for that school.

Marshfieldhog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2018, 06:58:37 am »

I have absolutely no issue with home schooled kids being allowed to play sports in the public schools.  Just my .02 cents.

Correct. Most states everyone pays property taxes for schools whether you home school or not.

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2018, 08:54:45 am »

The Heisman:
A qb: the media desperately push QBs first. 

qb on one of the brands with a great record.
qb with stupid stats from brand program
qb with stupid stats

If they canít push a qb with some of the above they reluctantly go to a RB from brand program and so on.

Itís a darn award. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2018, 11:19:58 am »

The Heisman:
A qb: the media desperately push QBs first. 

qb on one of the brands with a great record.
qb with stupid stats from brand program
qb with stupid stats

If they canít push a qb with some of the above they reluctantly go to a RB from brand program and so on.

Itís a darn award.

That's the thing...if it's the BEST player in CFB, then why do DE's and other dominant players like that rarely even get mentioned?  I get it that the QB is the most important player on the field in most cases, because they touch the ball on every play on offense (well most of them), but it doesn't mean they are a better PLAYER than Billy Badbutt who plays OLB and averages 15 tackles a game with two sacks, and a forced fumble.  With the number of O-lineman and D-lineman that are taken above QB's in the draft in many years, it sort of illustrates that it's really about players on the highlight reels, on offense.         
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Arazorbackguy1

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2018, 12:20:36 pm »

When you play in the B-league, as Murray does, it's easier to pad those stats......

This.  When your team plays no defense, you have a whole lot more opportunities to put up offensive stats. 
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redleg

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2018, 04:01:15 pm »

My Heisman thought is...I don't give a damn who wins, and McFadden was robbed.

Melancholy_Pigg

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2018, 04:01:36 pm »

It wouldnít have mattered to me no matter what player and who they are. If they didnít attend the high school, they shouldnít be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities for that school.

Home schooled kids should not be barred from participating in the athletic programs of their school district.  I have no idea the justification for such an exclusion.   We allow people who are not even here legally and whose parents pay no taxes to attend public schools.  I think we can do the same for our fellow citizens.  I know certain people hate home-schooling, and that is fine, but we're not going to start lashing out at those kids.  Really shameful, to just be honest. 
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2018, 05:07:49 pm »

Home schooled kids should not be barred from participating in the athletic programs of their school district.  I have no idea the justification for such an exclusion.   We allow people who are not even here legally and whose parents pay no taxes to attend public schools.  I think we can do the same for our fellow citizens.  I know certain people hate home-schooling, and that is fine, but we're not going to start lashing out at those kids.  Really shameful, to just be honest. 

I agree.  It's not like folks' taxes are lowered because they choose to home school.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2018, 05:30:16 pm »

Home schooled kids should not be barred from participating in the athletic programs of their school district.  I have no idea the justification for such an exclusion.   We allow people who are not even here legally and whose parents pay no taxes to attend public schools.  I think we can do the same for our fellow citizens.  I know certain people hate home-schooling, and that is fine, but we're not going to start lashing out at those kids.  Really shameful, to just be honest. 

IF you arenít attending a school then you shouldnít get to play for that school. Itís as simple as that. I guess you think it would be fine then for a student from one school to play for a different school in the same district. Heck Iím 61 and pay property taxes. I guess I should be able to play for any high school where I live anytime I want.
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2018, 05:44:14 pm »

IF you arenít attending a school then you shouldnít get to play for that school. Itís as simple as that. I guess you think it would be fine then for a student from one school to play for a different school in the same district. Heck Iím 61 and pay property taxes. I guess I should be able to play for any high school where I live anytime I want.

It isn't as simple as that.  The school system today is far different than it was 40+ years ago when you attended.

As far as kids in the district attending different schools, it happens every year.  In fact, Springdale/Harber may be opening up a big can of worms on that one.
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alohawg

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2018, 08:08:43 pm »

Another OU qb  :puke:
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Oliver

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2018, 08:10:45 pm »

Another OU qb  :puke:

And Iím sure they are well on their way to their next one
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mykidsdad

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2018, 08:10:58 pm »

System QB in a conference that absolutely has 0 defense. Heisman voters are idiots. It is a joke that he won. Alabama will stomp a mud hole in them. Sad how uninformed the voters are nowadays.

sevenof400

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2018, 08:12:29 pm »

Another OU QB wins the Heisman this year?
Dandy, just so long as NC result is the this year...
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Melancholy_Pigg

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2018, 08:14:52 pm »

IF you arenít attending a school then you shouldnít get to play for that school. Itís as simple as that. I guess you think it would be fine then for a student from one school to play for a different school in the same district. Heck Iím 61 and pay property taxes. I guess I should be able to play for any high school where I live anytime I want.

I think your deep feeling on this is really about something else. 
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alohawg

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2018, 08:26:30 pm »

System QB in a conference that absolutely has 0 defense. Heisman voters are idiots. It is a joke that he won. Alabama will stomp a mud hole in them. Sad how uninformed the voters are nowadays.

Yep, and OU beat TWO ranked teams all season after losing to one of those earlier. Alabama is going to beat up OU all over the field early and often.
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mykidsdad

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2018, 08:36:52 pm »

Yep, and OU beat TWO ranked teams all season after losing to one of those earlier. Alabama is going to beat up OU all over the field early and often.

Yeah funny I donít remember Murray posting Ďcrazyí stats when he was in the SEC.

I think that they should just give the Heisman to some small college team playing in the weakest conference possible. Oh wait they did! Stupid!!!
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2018, 08:38:33 pm »

While I thought tua probably should have won, donít forget many sec fan boys thought Georgia would slow down Baker Mayfield last year. They got the win, but that ou offense put up 45+ if I remember correctly.

Iíd like for both teams to lose disappear if thatís possible, for the record.
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Steef

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2018, 08:39:22 pm »

The Tebow Award? Who gives a flip?

GroŖer Kriegschwein

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2018, 08:40:11 pm »

I would go with Tua. 

Tua had to play against SEC defenses.  Kyler did not.  What Tua did to Bama's regular season opponents was unprecedented.  You have to wonder how Kyler would have done against the same. 

Kyler is not built to take hits - he would have been more limited in his scrambles in the SEC or Big 10.  The defenses are better, and he couldn't have risked as much.  He is a superb Big 12 QB don't get me wrong.

But we'll see how he fares against Bummer.  I think a lot of folks are going to be shown they got it wrong after the Orange Bowl (assuming Kyler wins the H).

Kyler runs too loose with the football.

In a conference that actually plays defense, heíd have coughed up the ball quite a bit more this year. He needs to tuck that thing better and quit running like he did when he was a freshman.

hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2018, 08:49:17 pm »

Wow!  I'm totally shocked.
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HogFansReunited

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2018, 08:59:24 pm »

Tua was by far the best player. Bama is going to kill Oklahoma and I doubt Saban will call off the dogs.

hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2018, 09:15:28 pm »

Tua was by far the best player. Bama is going to kill Oklahoma and I doubt Saban will call off the dogs.

My exact thoughts.
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GoHogs1091

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2018, 09:23:58 pm »

System QB in a conference that absolutely has 0 defense. Heisman voters are idiots. It is a joke that he won. Alabama will stomp a mud hole in them. Sad how uninformed the voters are nowadays.

Should be an interesting game.

Alabama's defense faced garbage offenses all season long.

Oklahoma's offense faced garbage defenses all season long.

What will ultimately be able to overcome the fact that they won't be facing garbage in this game?  Will Alabama's defense overcome a non-garbage offense, or will Oklahoma's offense overcome a non-garbage defense?

We do know that Saban has had trouble when the opposing offense spread out his bulked-up defensive players and made them have to defend in space from sideline-to-sideline (Ohio State in the Semi-Final and the 2 Clemson NC games).

Also, there may be now enough game film to prepare well for Lincoln Riley's offense as the OU Head Coach.  Saban does have more time than usual to prepare.
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OklaU

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2018, 09:26:14 pm »

Yeah funny I donít remember Murray posting Ďcrazyí stats when he was in the SEC.

I think that they should just give the Heisman to some small college team playing in the weakest conference possible. Oh wait they did! Stupid!!!

He was a Freshmen at aTm.
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psychhog

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2018, 09:31:33 pm »

Yeah funny I donít remember Murray posting Ďcrazyí stats when he was in the SEC.

I think that they should just give the Heisman to some small college team playing in the weakest conference possible. Oh wait they did! Stupid!!!

Yeah he was a freshman backup though at aTm. Heís a little more seasoned now and backed up a Heisman last year. Also I think many thought bama would roll over OU a few years ago too but got upset. I still think bama is much better than OU and will win this year as they will be by far the best D OU has faced this year but I think that was the same sentiment a few years ago too when Trevor Knight started for OU...

As someone pointed out earlier though I think Murray is more valuable to his team overall than Tua is. I donít think Jalen is as good as Tua but his record overall isnít too bad considering he only lost what, 2 games as a starter for 2 whole seasons? Technically yes Tua has not lost any games as a starter. But what if Murray had been hurt, would their backup be able to say he had played in a NC game and lead them to victory in the conf championship game? Obviously weíll never know the answer to that but I think you get my point. I think most would say OU would not have the same record without Murray but bama very well might be in the exact same spot.

Also the big 12 is weak but not the worst conference.

And as someone stated earlier and Iím pretty sure weíll all agree, McFadden absolutely got robbed when Troy Smith of tOSU won the Heisman.
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checkraiser88

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2018, 09:31:38 pm »

Tua got robbed. Unreal how they base it on the last game of the season basically. Murray didn't have SEC defenses to throw against either

psychhog

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2018, 09:36:24 pm »


Alabama's defense faced garbage offenses all season long.

Iím not necessarily disagreeing with your overall post. Week in and out they didnít face near he same offenses as OU and the big 12 but bama did absolutely shut down ole miss which has a top 10 offense this year.

GoHogs1091

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2018, 09:41:57 pm »

Iím not necessarily disagreeing with your overall post. Week in and out they didnít face near he same offenses as OU and the big 12 but bama did absolutely shut down ole miss which has a top 10 offense this year.

Ole Miss' offense is overrated.

Their offense is basically just Wide Receiver A.J. Brown and Offensive Tackle Greg Little.
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RazorPiggie

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2018, 09:50:33 pm »

So who else thinks daddy Murray is a huge d!ck? Never cracked a smile.

Oliver

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2018, 10:04:51 pm »

Iím not necessarily disagreeing with your overall post. Week in and out they didnít face near he same offenses as OU and the big 12 but bama did absolutely shut down ole miss which has a top 10 offense this year.

Whether they have Tua or Jalen, Bama is going to score.  OUs defense is hot garbage.  The real question is how much can Bama stop OUs offense.  Iím thinking OU gets 35 points on Bama.  It would be easier for Bama to score more than 35 points with Tua than Jalen though
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311Hog

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2018, 10:28:06 pm »

Tua doesn't get knicked up and this isn't even close.  How they can give it to guy who isn't 5 foot 5 standing on a dictionary is beyond me.  The kid is fast. that's it OU is a system its like giving the ole Hawaii QB the hienzelman back in the June Jones era....
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psychhog

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2018, 11:13:42 pm »

Ole Miss' offense is overrated.

Their offense is basically just Wide Receiver A.J. Brown and Offensive Tackle Greg Little.

Hard to be an overrated offense when youíre top 10 in the country and you play in the sec West.

psychhog

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2018, 11:16:22 pm »

Whether they have Tua or Jalen, Bama is going to score.  OUs defense is hot garbage.  The real question is how much can Bama stop OUs offense.  Iím thinking OU gets 35 points on Bama.  It would be easier for Bama to score more than 35 points with Tua than Jalen though

Iím not disagreeing with that statement. I think bamaís O is legit and OUís D is soft. I do believe that OUís O is good as well and will score some points on bama. Bama has an elite offense and plays in the sec West which is far and away better than anything the big 12 has shown this year as far as defense. And yes I do believe that bamaís offense is better with tua than Jalen.
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hoggusamoungus

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2018, 08:03:30 am »

Tua got robbed. Unreal how they base it on the last game of the season basically. Murray didn't have SEC defenses to throw against either

Bama fans sounding off on twitter sound like Hog fans in 2006.  Major point is that he didn't play in the 4Q all year and that hurt his stats.

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sevenof400

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2018, 08:05:43 am »

I can see Kyler Murray having a Colt McCoy moment in the semi final game when he finally faces a defense. 
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Steef

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2018, 08:43:36 am »

We're talking about an "award" that is a marketing device for ESPN.

Who gave DNac's award to Tebow (twice) because Florida's a bigger market than Arkansas.

I like Tim T personally. But no way DMac didn't deserve recognition.

Since then, they are dead to me.

hoggusamoungus

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2018, 08:58:18 am »

We're talking about an "award" that is a marketing device for ESPN.

Who gave DNac's award to Tebow (twice) because Florida's a bigger market than Arkansas.

I like Tim T personally. But no way DMac didn't deserve recognition.

Since then, they are dead to me.

Troy Smith, not Tebow, won in 2006 with the excuse being no sophomore has ever won the award.  Very next year they give it Tebow, who was a sophomore.

Steef

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2018, 09:12:37 am »

Troy Smith, not Tebow, won in 2006 with the excuse being no sophomore has ever won the award.  Very next year they give it Tebow, who was a sophomore.

Thanks. I had forgotten that.

Just makes it worse.
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DavidÜ

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2018, 09:16:01 am »

Heisman is a joke, has been even before dmac.
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hoggusamoungus

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2018, 09:35:54 am »

Heisman is a joke, has been even before dmac.

I live in TN and Charles Woodson is still fightin' words with UT fans.
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2018, 09:43:43 am »

Tua got robbed. Unreal how they base it on the last game of the season basically. Murray didn't have SEC defenses to throw against either

Tua was certainly deserving...any other year he prolly would win it. 

Kyler Murray was incredibly dominant on an otherwise mediocre team.
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hawginTN

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2018, 10:31:05 am »

Couple things.

1) Now that there is a playoff , Heisman should not be awarded till after those games are done. Like having the final polls before bowl season. Cream will rise to the top eventually, and winners would be more legit.

2) Bama will be more than motivated to smack Murray around now. If he beats Bama then he'll be a legit winner. But I doubt it. Bama will more than likely smoke OK. Big12 does not play defense.

One extra thing.

Peyton Manning and DMac were royally screwed.

OklaU

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2018, 10:37:25 am »

What if the Heisman winner wasn't in the playoffs?  You have to beat Alabama to show you're a legit Heisman winner...by yourself?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2018, 10:43:36 am »

Couple things.

1) Now that there is a playoff , Heisman should not be awarded till after those games are done. Like having the final polls before bowl season. Cream will rise to the top eventually, and winners would be more legit.

2) Bama will be more than motivated to smack Murray around now. If he beats Bama then he'll be a legit winner. But I doubt it. Bama will more than likely smoke OK. Big12 does not play defense.

One extra thing.

Peyton Manning and DMac were royally screwed.

I think it has always been presented before the bowl games.
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hawginTN

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2018, 11:30:22 am »

What if the Heisman winner wasn't in the playoffs?  You have to beat Alabama to show you're a legit Heisman winner...by yourself?

Simply acknowledging that the new playoff format has changed the perception of who's the best. And that generally the Heisman is awarded not always to the best player. But to the best player from one of the best teams. And with the new format in most years that the best players from the best teams will probably be playing against each other. So why not wait til the end of the season to present the award.

Don't think anything was mentioned about playing somebody by themselves.

There are plenty of examples of Heisman winners who were shut down ( or exposed ) in the bowl game once they encountered higher competition.

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hawginTN

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2018, 11:41:38 am »

I think it has always been presented before the bowl games.

It has. However that has been seen as a point of controversy as well. Especially  when awarded to someone who racked up a lot of stats on a winning team that played a weak schedule.

Final polls used to come out before bowl season too. And that was changed after the 1964 season I think.
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OklaU

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2018, 12:02:35 pm »


Don't think anything was mentioned about playing somebody by themselves.


Right, but Murray doesn't have the supporting cast (or backup QB) or a defense that Tua does.  If OU doesn't beat Bama, then his Heisman win was illegitimate? 
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hawginTN

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2018, 12:11:19 pm »

Right, but Murray doesn't have the supporting cast (or backup QB) or a defense that Tua does.  If OU doesn't beat Bama, then his Heisman win was illegitimate?

Which player will have a career as a QB in the NFL?

Murray won't. He's smart enough to play baseball. Great player for sure. Not sure he's the best Football player in the country.

Plus Tua would've racked up way more stats had he played the 4th quarter in all his games. Only played one 4th quarter all season.
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sevenof400

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2018, 12:14:06 pm »

Right, but Murray doesn't have the supporting cast (or backup QB) or a defense that Tua does.  If OU doesn't beat Bama, then his Heisman win was illegitimate?

That's one way of looking at it. 
As I said before, when you play in the B league your stats are going to get inflated.  Play better competition - week in and week out - and see how Murray does.
Either way, it will be interesting to see how Murray performs against the Alabama defense - clearly the sternest test he will have faced all year.
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