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Author Topic: Heisman Thoughts....  (Read 2995 times)

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urkillnmesmalls

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Heisman Thoughts....
« on: December 05, 2018, 11:49:17 pm »

I am convinced that Murray will win.  I'm not saying he shouldn't, but in the end, I think if Tua is injured just a little worse prior to the SECCG and can't go at all, he probably still wins.   

We weren't hearing, "Well...he didn't have to play under pressure or lead a comeback all season," or "He didn't play well when it mattered the most," until AFTER the SECCG, when he tried to play hurt.  Up until that point, he was playing 3 quarters, and leading Bama to such lopsided victories that he didn't even need to play in the 4th quarter, and risk further injury. 

It's almost nuts in a way that he probably lost the Heisman because he tried to gut it out and play hurt on the biggest stage, in front of everyone. 

TexHog188

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 02:29:12 am »

Donít they vote before the playoff even begins?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 06:26:19 am »

Donít they vote before the playoff even begins?

Ballots had to be submitted not later than Monday, 12/3/18.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 06:50:47 am »

This award is dead to me after they Passed on Dmac twice.

LRRandy

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 07:42:26 am »

Haskins won't win it, I think he should.  He played the best on the biggest stage of his season totally shredding what at the time was the number one ranked defense in the country. His numbers are the better of the three finalists. No way though, after the tumult to start the season does Urbans boy get the votes he deserves.
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Ray_Finkle

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 08:57:41 am »

I am convinced that Murray will win.  I'm not saying he shouldn't, but in the end, I think if Tua is injured just a little worse prior to the SECCG and can't go at all, he probably still wins.   

We weren't hearing, "Well...he didn't have to play under pressure or lead a comeback all season," or "He didn't play well when it mattered the most," until AFTER the SECCG, when he tried to play hurt.  Up until that point, he was playing 3 quarters, and leading Bama to such lopsided victories that he didn't even need to play in the 4th quarter, and risk further injury. 

It's almost nuts in a way that he probably lost the Heisman because he tried to gut it out and play hurt on the biggest stage, in front of everyone.

My thoughts on this, you take Tua off of Alabama's team and they are still number 1... you take Murray off of Oklahoma and they are not any where close to the same team.  Not saying Tua is just some system QB... the dude is a stud and makes Bama scary good.  But to me the heisman should be considered the MVP and that to me has to go to Murray.

Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 09:29:40 am »

Heisman used to be an award for the best, most valuable college football player in the country.  If that is still the criteria, then Kyler Murray should win it.  OU is barely above .500 (if at all) without him.

Tua is awesome, but Bama has so much surrounding him it's hard to say just how good he is.  If he played for OU or OSU would he be as outstanding?  I don't think so.

sevenof400

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2018, 10:07:17 am »

When you play in the B-league, as Murray does, it's easier to pad those stats......

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2018, 10:10:10 am »

Tua has arm strength, accuracy and mobility. More than mobile when healthy.  Throws one of the prettiest balls in college football.  He would be good anywhere.  The injuries making him immobile vs UGa cost him the Heisman.  Murray will win it.

I hate this award.  Will not watch the ceremony.

Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 10:18:33 am »

When you play in the B-league, as Murray does, it's easier to pad those stats......

So, can we infer that you think the Heisman should go to the best player on the best team?

And, I'm not talking about stats...those are next to meaningless as nobody plays the same competition every week.

I think Murray was the difference in OU being a playoff team and just another no-defense-playing Big 12 team.  Murray is the best player in college football, in my opinion, and should win the Heisman because of that--not his stats.
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#1 STUNNA

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 10:28:27 am »

Tua will win it next year along with his 3rd national title.

PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 10:29:03 am »

So, can we infer that you think the Heisman should go to the best player on the best team?

And, I'm not talking about stats...those are next to meaningless as nobody plays the same competition every week.

I think Murray was the difference in OU being a playoff team and just another no-defense-playing Big 12 team.  Murray is the best player in college football, in my opinion, and should win the Heisman because of that--not his stats.

He'll win it if for no other reason than Tua will still have an opportunity next year.  I still think that plays into it. 

RicebirdHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 11:34:16 am »

Tua has arm strength, accuracy and mobility. More than mobile when healthy.  Throws one of the prettiest balls in college football.  He would be good anywhere.  The injuries making him immobile vs UGa cost him the Heisman.  Murray will win it.

I hate this award.  Will not watch the ceremony.

Or it could be the two dumb throws he made during the game
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 11:35:17 am »

Or it could be the two dumb throws he made during the game

So two bad plays should eliminate a season of work?  Willing to bet Murray made some bad plays as well. 

RicebirdHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 11:37:11 am »

So two bad plays should eliminate a season of work?  Willing to bet Murray made some bad plays as well.

I think you're forgetting the kind of season Kyler Murray had...You have no room for mistakes when a guy like that is chasing you. One showed up for the big game. One choked under pressure and was awful
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 11:54:05 am »

I think you're forgetting the kind of season Kyler Murray had...You have no room for mistakes when a guy like that is chasing you. One showed up for the big game. One choked under pressure and was awful

He was under pressure.  Literally and on a bad knee and ankle.  There were reasons he played as he did. 

You seem to think we are arguing for Tua.  I donít think he should win it.   
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 11:54:54 am »

Haskins won't win it, I think he should.  He played the best on the biggest stage of his season totally shredding what at the time was the number one ranked defense in the country. His numbers are the better of the three finalists. No way though, after the tumult to start the season does Urbans boy get the votes he deserves.

You think the puke-eyes should win the NC in every sport they have every year and a player on each of those teams should win all the awards. Well guess what there are other teams and other players. I admit heís a good player. However he got out played by the Purdue QB in that game. His QBR was 63.3. If all of the three had a bad game which I think they did at some point that game hurts his chances moreso. BOTH Tua and Kyler have a higher overall QBR for the year. But we get it youíre biased.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:06:44 pm by Inhogswetrust »
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hoglady

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 12:11:18 pm »

I've got no problem with Tua or Murray winning it.

Murray had more pressure to score to win because he played on a team with a pretty poor defense.
But then Tua played against tougher defenses in the SEC.

There can be a case made for either player.
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Busta_Nutt

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 12:14:14 pm »

This award is dead to me after they Passed on Dmac twice.

Tebow deserved his.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 12:30:24 pm »

Tebow deserved his.

And he never should have been allowed to even play high school football. He didnít attend the two schools he played for. I know the law in Florida allowed it but it wasnít right in my book. Sorry but a kid shouldnít be allowed to play for a school they donít attend.
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 12:36:20 pm »

I think you're forgetting the kind of season Kyler Murray had...You have no room for mistakes when a guy like that is chasing you. One showed up for the big game. One choked under pressure and was awful

Nah he had a great season.  Its just difficult to compare when Tua only played several games for the first half of the game, not to mention Murray's turnovers probably were what lost the game to texas.  A case could be made for either player.  I don't think you can let the georgia game hurt Tua any more than you should let the Oklahoma loss to texas hurt Murray.  In my opinion. 

Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 12:38:05 pm »

And he never should have been allowed to even play high school football. He didnít attend the two schools he played for. I know the law in Florida allowed it but it wasnít right in my book. Sorry but a kid shouldnít be allowed to play for a school they donít attend.

Sounds like a topic for Politics, cause that's what it is.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 12:40:50 pm »

Sounds like a topic for Politics, cause that's what it is.

Yep. Sorry. Eveytime his name is mentioned I think of that.

LRRandy

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 01:25:40 pm »

You think the puke-eyes should win the NC in every sport they have every year and a player on each of those teams should win all the awards. Well guess what there are other teams and other players. I admit heís a good player. However he got out played by the Purdue QB in that game. His QBR was 63.3. If all of the three had a bad game which I think they did at some point that game hurts his chances moreso. BOTH Tua and Kyler have a higher overall QBR for the year. But we get it youíre biased.
still not over being robbed of the badminton natty last year. The fix was in. Google it.
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Nashville Fan

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2018, 01:29:25 pm »

And he never should have been allowed to even play high school football. He didnít attend the two schools he played for. I know the law in Florida allowed it but it wasnít right in my book. Sorry but a kid shouldnít be allowed to play for a school they donít attend.
a dyslexic home schooled kid shouldn't play football. Don't think many states agree with you.

https://hslda.org/content/docs/nche/Issues/E/Equal_Access.pdf

Pigcrazy

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2018, 01:32:17 pm »

Over 10% of Heisman voters voted early, meaning before last weekends games. Tua will win because of that. 
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2018, 02:01:21 pm »

a dyslexic home schooled kid shouldn't play football. Don't think many states agree with you.

https://hslda.org/content/docs/nche/Issues/E/Equal_Access.pdf

The law In Florida wasnít about Tebow. It wasnít changed just for him and his dyslexia. It was enacted there in 1996. He was a high school equivalent student several years later. In other words he wasnít even in high school until many years after the law was passed. Besides dyslexia kids can go to public schools and get help for that. The states that have passed a similar law has done do for one reason only.......politics and votes.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:15:14 pm by Inhogswetrust »
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alohawg

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2018, 02:03:54 pm »

There's not a qb out there I'd pick over Tua.

hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2018, 02:09:39 pm »

There's not a qb out there I'd pick over Tua.

+1000

He'll win it and it will probably be close to being unanimous.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2018, 02:30:43 pm »

There's not a qb out there I'd pick over Tua.

That's where I stand.  If I had to pick one and start a team next year, I would take Tua...assuming both are healthy.  But man...it's hard to say which one is the best player in CFB, if you're trying to ascertain it based solely on that criteria.  Murray is undoubtedly the MOST important to his team between the two.  Minus him...they lose a few more games.  Minus Tua...not sure Bama's record wouldn't be exactly the same, but there's no way to know that.  He's so good, that he makes it look pretty easy when he's healthy. 

I heard that 10% of the ballots had already been turned in before the weekend.  I'm assuming they can't, or won't, retract those.  I would bet Tua got most of those, so that might be enough to push him over the top.  But...I have a sneaky suspicion that voters will value what the each did on the big stage, when it mattered the most.  THAT ALONE may cause many to look back at the season with more scrutiny than they would have otherwise, and find rationale to choose Murray. 

Murray had to win close games.  Tua really never did...and wasn't in there in the SECCG at the end.  We really don't know how Tua would do under pressure, if he had to deliever.  He had so much talent around him...and they dominated, so we never saw that side of him.  He showed he could do it on the HIGHEST stage last year though!

Maybe it's because I just thought..."Tua was so good, that he didn't even need to play late in games, because of the leads he built," and that made sense to me.  Why risk injury, and he's been nursing a bad knee almost all season.  But...the counter argument to that is that it was the defense and talent around him that led to those leads just as much as him.  Hmm... 

I think I'm glad I'm not voting.   ;D

PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 02:37:02 pm »

+1000

He'll win it and it will probably be close to being unanimous.

I bet it'll be closer than you think and I still think Murray wins it.  We'll see.  I like Tua, so I'd like to see him win it. 
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hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 02:39:20 pm »

I bet it'll be closer than you think and I still think Murray wins it.  We'll see.  I like Tua, so I'd like to see him win it.

They both seem like decent kids.
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 02:41:19 pm »

They both seem like decent kids.

Yep.  I have a friend that coaches Tua's little brother.  He's gonna be awesome, too. 
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hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 02:44:43 pm »

Yep.  I have a friend that coaches Tua's little brother.  He's gonna be awesome, too.

Taulia, right?

He's at Bama 2019 or 20?
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RicebirdHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2018, 02:50:17 pm »

Nah he had a great season.  Its just difficult to compare when Tua only played several games for the first half of the game, not to mention Murray's turnovers probably were what lost the game to texas.  A case could be made for either player.  I don't think you can let the georgia game hurt Tua any more than you should let the Oklahoma loss to texas hurt Murray.  In my opinion.

Take away all the fourth quarter. Stats are still better. Tua is great but it's all Kyler
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RicebirdHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 02:51:29 pm »

Take Kyler over Tua every single day. Best athlete in college football
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2018, 02:51:51 pm »

Taulia, right?

He's at Bama 2019 or 20?

Supposed to graduate early and be able to go through spring practice.  (I think)
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hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 03:50:09 pm »

Supposed to graduate early and be able to go through spring practice.  (I think)

Next season?
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alohawg

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2018, 05:09:35 pm »

Yep.  I have a friend that coaches Tua's little brother.  He's gonna be awesome, too. 

Word in Hawaii is he's better, scary.
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hogcards

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 07:06:48 pm »

Wow
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RollHogTide

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 11:08:13 pm »

I am very thankful for Tua and very hopeful that he wins; however, I believe that Haskins will have the better pro career vs. Tua and of course since Murray is going to MLB he will be a non-factor in the NFL. 

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 11:53:12 pm »

Tebow deserved his.

Run the highlight videos. No one will ever convince me he deserved it over McFadden. Unlike Tebow, Darren scored his TDs from all over the field. He didnít pad his stats being a glorified fullback in short yardage red zone situations. He also did it with half the talent around him and in an offense not exactly known for instilling fear via its passing game.

To put it bluntly, Darren was a victim of being the not-so-eloquent black kid from little ole Arkansas. He had no chance of winning against a white, evangelical QB from a more visible program.

Nashville Fan

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 06:50:21 am »

The law In Florida wasnít about Tebow. It wasnít changed just for him and his dyslexia. It was enacted there in 1996. He was a high school equivalent student several years later. In other words he wasnít even in high school until many years after the law was passed. Besides dyslexia kids can go to public schools and get help for that. The states that have passed a similar law has done do for one reason only.......politics and votes.
I think you missed the point. Someone saying that Tebow shouldn't get a Heisman because he didn't go to a high school that he played for is just hating on someone.

Plus you reinforced my point. Thanks!
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Busta_Nutt

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 11:29:03 am »

Run the highlight videos. No one will ever convince me he deserved it over McFadden. Unlike Tebow, Darren scored his TDs from all over the field. He didnít pad his stats being a glorified fullback in short yardage red zone situations. He also did it with half the talent around him and in an offense not exactly known for instilling fear via its passing game.

To put it bluntly, Darren was a victim of being the not-so-eloquent black kid from little ole Arkansas. He had no chance of winning against a white, evangelical QB from a more visible program.

Tebow rushed for 895 yards...I don't think you get to that number by only running in short yardage, redzone situations. He accounted for more than 4,000 yards and 55 total touchdowns. McFadden had an outstanding year, but he was not a victim of anything. Tebow simply deserved his Heisman.
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 01:54:50 pm »

I am very thankful for Tua and very hopeful that he wins; however, I believe that Haskins will have the better pro career vs. Tua and of course since Murray is going to MLB he will be a non-factor in the NFL. 

Heisman isn't supposed to be based on NFL projections.  Although, I think many vote that way now.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 07:10:09 pm »

Run the highlight videos. No one will ever convince me he deserved it over McFadden. Unlike Tebow, Darren scored his TDs from all over the field. He didnít pad his stats being a glorified fullback in short yardage red zone situations. He also did it with half the talent around him and in an offense not exactly known for instilling fear via its passing game.

To put it bluntly, Darren was a victim of being the not-so-eloquent black kid from little ole Arkansas. He had no chance of winning against a white, evangelical QB from a more visible program.

Except stats showed a lot different. Nutt lost him the Heisman by not getting him in the end zone more. He might of won if he had more Rushing TDs than Tebow, but he didnít even do that.  I believe he should have won it over the Ohio state guy the year before, but not over Tebow.
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East Clintwood

Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 07:50:26 pm »

I don't really pay  much attention to the Heisman since espn appropriated it for their own hype machine.

Melancholy_Pigg

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 07:51:58 pm »

I would go with Tua. 

Tua had to play against SEC defenses.  Kyler did not.  What Tua did to Bama's regular season opponents was unprecedented.  You have to wonder how Kyler would have done against the same. 

Kyler is not built to take hits - he would have been more limited in his scrambles in the SEC or Big 10.  The defenses are better, and he couldn't have risked as much.  He is a superb Big 12 QB don't get me wrong.

But we'll see how he fares against Bummer.  I think a lot of folks are going to be shown they got it wrong after the Orange Bowl (assuming Kyler wins the H).
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Melancholy_Pigg

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Re: Heisman Thoughts....
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 08:03:03 pm »

I have absolutely no issue with home schooled kids being allowed to play sports in the public schools.  Just my .02 cents. 

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