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Author Topic: We've Found Our Norm Again  (Read 1329 times)

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Oklahawg

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We've Found Our Norm Again
« on: October 13, 2018, 11:07:42 pm »

After a couple of weeks flashing hope, we've found our norm. This is how we began the Morris era and will play the rest of the way (with what we can hope is continued incremental improvements from time to time). It is what happened with Petrino and Bielema, too.

1. Great coordinators can scheme things up for a while. It accounts for hot starts on offense. But, eventually, the scripted plays are exhausted. The "setting up a play for later" plays are exhausted. You've shown everything but gadgets and gimmick plays. Ole Miss took away the TE tonight (apparently, since I rarely heard their names called) and forced us to rely on QBs and RBs to make yards. (Most here have already concluded that we don't have a single SEC-type WR.)

On defense, it is basically the same. You have about 16 guys that are trusted to be on the field (and are healthy). Those 16 players wear out. Tackling goes south. Once OM established late in the first half that they could drive down the field, at will, we knew we'd have to out-score them.

2. Injuries suck. QB is the most important player on the field even if they aren't the best player on the field. Boyd, our best offensive weapon this season, goes down. Whaley, an able replacement, goes down. Storey, providing a workmanlike performance, was playing well enough to win, but I don't know that we win if he doesn't get hurt. The noose was already tightening.

3. For a couple of weeks the defense looked pretty formidable. Then, the offense flashed. Special teams improved, finally. But when the data set is large enough, we are still not a very good team.The talent on offense is just not made for this system. The tight ends and a couple of RBs won't be forgotten next year, that's for sure, but I don't imagine we'll hear much from the WRs after 2018. The OL showed progress but was outnumbered much of the second half as OM challenged us to throw (neither Storey nor Kelley seemed to scare them much).

Oddities:

1. if Noland is getting back-up reps, but doesn't play, what does that say? Are you trying to protect Noland, avoid a QB controversy, or did Morris really think the 3rd string guy was best-equipped to help the team win?  A head-scratcher.

2. UA does not get the benefit on more calls than I can recall in recent memory. The scrum in the first half seemed to end with a neutral call + the personal foul on OM that started it. Morris doesn't seem to work the refs as well as I am used to seeing (Petrino + Bielema). The pushoff on the first OM TD pass that wasn't called...holding on DL several times....

3. Does Clary snap this bad in practice? Is snapping as a center like being a QB - if you get the yips you might not get rid of them? Almost depressing to see it happen play after play. Seems like a consistently high and right snap could be fixed permanently with a stance tweak. Maybe not.

4. Isn't the block out of bounds call on the final KO return so typical of our year? Good results and a player showing out...and then you get called for blocking 3 yards past the sideline with a whistle right in your ear. Good grief.

===

I am not going to make run of players, make snide comments about them or their coaches, second guess, etc. It is what it is.

Do I think they are better? A bit, maybe more than a bit. Is it going to be rough seeing 40,000 people for the LSU game and 10,000 of them being from LSU? Hell yes, but I'm looking forward to it.

I'll cheer for the seniors, thank them for their time, and wish them the best. I'll sing the alma mater because it means something. And, I'll drive home knowing the next time I see the Hogs coach will have about 50% of the roster made up of "his" guys. He won't need an excuse from me, although he'll have another year or two to get this train moving. All I know is I desperately want 2018 to be the low-point for my fandom. If there are moments that rival it I seriously need to find a new hobby.

Oliver

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 11:11:34 pm »

Ill certainly wish the seniors the best on their way out
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Oklahawg

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 11:14:11 pm »

Ill certainly wish the seniors the best on their way out

The bigger question, of course, is how many underclassmen bail before the 2019 season. Are we looking at 4-5? 8-10?
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Oliver

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 11:15:39 pm »

The bigger question, of course, is how many underclassmen bail before the 2019 season. Are we looking at 4-5? 8-10?

There’s only a select few I’d lose sleep over and I don’t expect them to leave
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orvillesghost

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 11:15:50 pm »

a great post Okla


I try not to despair or let apathy get ahold of me but its tough so tough..

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Switchback

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 11:17:52 pm »

Great post.
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rtr

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2018, 11:18:09 pm »

Oklahawg, did the previous staff just not recruit well?  Were there evaluations faulty, did they not know that speed is critical in the SEC especially on defense?

I don't know if this staff will make it but they can't be held responsible for the current state of the roster.  One thing I will say is that Dustin Fry seems to have done a good job coaching up a depleted offensive line.

OkieBack

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 11:22:39 pm »

I had some optimism going into this game.  I still support the coaches and the players but between play calling and depth and stupid plays...we just can't seem to overcome this year.

Bottom line is our best just isn't good enough this season.  We need allot of help in terms of recruits and talent on both sides of the ball. 

I hope the Hogs beat TU next weekend, but after that I think I'm going to sleep on this season and wake up when the new recruits arrive.  Coaches and players proved we are simply not consistent.  We can score 31 on the top team in the country, or we can puke out only 33 points to a bad defense. 

The Ole Miss offense was barely good enough to win tonight.  The Hog offense proved just poor enough to lose a tight game.  But I'll put 80% of the loss tonight on conservative play calling by Morris and Craddock.  It is what it is.

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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 11:25:47 pm »

I was in Champaign, IL today, watched the Illini get beat like the neighbor's mutt just ate your Thanksgiving turkey.  By a pretty bad Purdue team. 

There is a lot of bad football happening this year, by a lot of different teams.  Every week.  I'm tired of it being the Hogs every week, though.
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blacksuit

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 11:35:57 pm »

Morris didn't put Storey in the game against North Texas, despite playing basically every other QB on the roster. Maybe he's handling Noland in a similar way in case Storey is out for a game or three. I assume, barring injuries, that the plan for Noland is to do a four game redshirt?

I have this gut feeling that our center will snap it over the QB's head one day and give up a scoop and score. With the way he's been playing, it's only a matter of time.

This loss stinks but I'm still surprisingly OK with how this rebuilding year is going due to the recent signs of improvement. I was at rock bottom after the first 2-3 games. Maybe the players had to get embarrassed pretty bad before they started to really buy in. Nick Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe at home in his first year at Bama. Process is more important than results early on.

hogfanny

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 11:57:27 pm »

I had some optimism going into this game.  I still support the coaches and the players but between play calling and depth and stupid plays...we just can't seem to overcome this year.

Bottom line is our best just isn't good enough this season.  We need allot of help in terms of recruits and talent on both sides of the ball. 

I hope the Hogs beat TU next weekend, but after that I think I'm going to sleep on this season and wake up when the new recruits arrive.  Coaches and players proved we are simply not consistent.  We can score 31 on the top team in the country, or we can puke out only 33 points to a bad defense. 

The Ole Miss offense was barely good enough to win tonight.  The Hog offense proved just poor enough to lose a tight game.  But I'll put 80% of the loss tonight on conservative play calling by Morris and Craddock.  It is what it is.
On defense play call also. Why no blitze when we had them pinned inside the five in the fourth quarter needing something big like a safety? Afraid we could not tackle him I guess?

hogsanity

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 12:12:57 am »


1. Great coordinators can scheme things up for a while. It accounts for hot starts on offense. But, eventually, the scripted plays are exhausted. The "setting up a play for later" plays are exhausted. You've shown everything but gadgets and gimmick plays.



2. . QB is the most important player on the field even if they aren't the best player on the field.

3. For a couple of weeks the defense looked pretty formidable.

1. Which is why the " we have to out scheme/out work them " crowd is just dead wrong. You have to have the better players to win consistently. IF anyone thinks a program can built on a strategy of out scheming teams week after week, well, the mountain of disappointment will be taller than mt everest.

2.  Which is why you do not intentionally put them in situations to get hit. It is dangerous enough dropping back to pass, but then asking them to run the ball, especially when they are not built like a tank ( think Cam newton at Auburn ) or very elusive, you are putting them at risk, especially against the speed and size of most SEC defenses.

3. I thought it was fools gold because they are still the same step slow undersized defenders, and those things showed up tonight on every old misses big play and td.

And while CM has a recruiting class that is currently in the top 20, it is not addressing issues like the OL or the back 7. Also, it will end up ranked in the 20's, because several high profile recruits have not committed yet, and when they do it will jump some classes over the Hogs. They will end up again getting the 9th or so class in the SEC, which means they will still be way behind in talent.
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ballz2thewall

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2018, 12:15:01 am »

I had some optimism going into this game.  I still support the coaches and the players but between play calling and depth and stupid plays...we just can't seem to overcome this year.

Bottom line is our best just isn't good enough this season.  We need allot of help in terms of recruits and talent on both sides of the ball. 

I hope the Hogs beat TU next weekend, but after that I think I'm going to sleep on this season and wake up when the new recruits arrive.  Coaches and players proved we are simply not consistent.  We can score 31 on the top team in the country, or we can puke out only 33 points to a bad defense. 

The Ole Miss offense was barely good enough to win tonight.  The Hog offense proved just poor enough to lose a tight game. But I'll put 80% of the loss tonight on conservative play calling by Morris and Craddock.  It is what it is.

look at the other side of the field; what is the main difference between the OM offense and ours?

ta'amu is the answer - and he has feet and can deliver quick darts.

other than that, swap jerseys and you'd see damn little difference. we don't have the weapon that would allow the coaches to liberalize the field.

oh - there's another difference. wr's. they got better one's than we got. 

moses_007

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 12:19:29 am »

Yep, we've found our norm all right.... cellar of the SEC West.....

Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2018, 12:24:16 am »

a great post Okla


I try not to despair or let apathy get ahold of me but its tough so tough..



This is our situation. I didn't lose any sleep over the losses to Alabama, Aubbie or Texas A&M. But today reminded me how sickening a loss can be. So I at least proved to myself that apathy has not taken TOTAL control.
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hogsanity

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2018, 12:26:31 am »

I was in Champaign, IL today, watched the Illini get beat like the neighbor's mutt just ate your Thanksgiving turkey.  By a pretty bad Purdue team. 

There is a lot of bad football happening this year, by a lot of different teams.  Every week.  I'm tired of it being the Hogs every week, though.

And they all have many of the same problems.

There are not enough really good defenders to go around because 95% of all the hs coaches are putting all he great athletes on offense. And, they are trying to run offenses that require a excellent runner at QB, which there are very few of, and without that weapon, those offenses are not very good. Look at the teams that pulled top 10 upsets today. LSU, ISU, MSU - all with coaches that value defense like it is gold, and ball control offenses.

And many of them change coaches every 3 or 4 years and bring in someone totally opposite of the previous guy, so they need 3 or 4 classes to get a different style of player, just in time to fire that guy and go another route,
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Squints Pallaboarus

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2018, 12:28:45 am »

I had some optimism going into this game.  I still support the coaches and the players but between play calling and depth and stupid plays...we just can't seem to overcome this year.

Bottom line is our best just isn't good enough this season.  We need allot of help in terms of recruits and talent on both sides of the ball. 

I hope the Hogs beat TU next weekend, but after that I think I'm going to sleep on this season and wake up when the new recruits arrive.  Coaches and players proved we are simply not consistent.  We can score 31 on the top team in the country, or we can puke out only 33 points to a bad defense. 

The Ole Miss offense was barely good enough to win tonight.  The Hog offense proved just poor enough to lose a tight game.  But I'll put 80% of the loss tonight on conservative play calling by Morris and Craddock.  It is what it is.

Our defense forced 1 punt all night. How can you expect to win that way?
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HawgnCorona

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2018, 12:29:54 am »

Ill certainly wish the seniors the best on their way out


LOL!! That is all...
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plumbhog

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2018, 12:32:37 am »

I had some optimism going into this game.  I still support the coaches and the players but between play calling and depth and stupid plays...we just can't seem to overcome this year.

Bottom line is our best just isn't good enough this season.  We need allot of help in terms of recruits and talent on both sides of the ball. 

I hope the Hogs beat TU next weekend, but after that I think I'm going to sleep on this season and wake up when the new recruits arrive.  Coaches and players proved we are simply not consistent.  We can score 31 on the top team in the country, or we can puke out only 33 points to a bad defense. 

The Ole Miss offense was barely good enough to win tonight.  The Hog offense proved just poor enough to lose a tight game.  But I'll put 80% of the loss tonight on conservative play calling by Morris and Craddock.  It is what it is.

if they had called the second half like the first it would have been much worse. Prolly around 4-6 interceptions.
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Ironhawg

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2018, 12:46:11 am »

Yep, we've found our norm all right.... cellar of the SEC West.....

This is the really hard part to accept.
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hogsanity

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2018, 12:48:40 am »

Yep, we've found our norm all right.... cellar of the SEC West.....

Funny thing is, the coach many of our fans and some boosters wanted, is only 1 rung higher.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2018, 12:51:42 am »

Lots to consider about tonight's game, for sure.

Regarding the play calling, there was a play that kinda stood out to me. In our next to last possession, we had a 2nd and 6… and we ran a Cole keeper. That seemed like too far to go (unless the idea was just to get part of that 6). That play didn't go anywhere… wish we'd gone with a running back instead.
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hogsanity

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2018, 12:55:04 am »

Lots to consider about tonight's game, for sure.

Regarding the play calling, there was a play that kinda stood out to me. In our next to last possession, we had a 2nd and 6… and we ran a Cole keeper. That seemed like too far to go (unless the idea was just to get part of that 6). That play didn't go anywhere… wish we'd gone with a running back instead.

So we could watch Hayden dance around and get nothing?
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porkrindjimmy

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2018, 12:56:40 am »

LMAO.

PRJ
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ricepig

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2018, 08:24:06 am »

Lots to consider about tonight's game, for sure.

Regarding the play calling, there was a play that kinda stood out to me. In our next to last possession, we had a 2nd and 6… and we ran a Cole keeper. That seemed like too far to go (unless the idea was just to get part of that 6). That play didn't go anywhere… wish we'd gone with a running back instead.

I'm guessing Maleek Williams didn't make the trip? Hayden, and Hammonds, don't like running inside. Criticize Whaley for not having the burst of Boyd, but both of those two will stick inside when there isn't much and push the pile for a couple.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2018, 08:29:23 am »

This Loss is a DDT to us Fans! Damn can't score in the 4 th Quarter again! The Stench of Long and Bret still has not washed off!
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Oklahawg

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2018, 11:59:45 am »

Oklahawg, did the previous staff just not recruit well?  Were there evaluations faulty, did they not know that speed is critical in the SEC especially on defense?

I don't know if this staff will make it but they can't be held responsible for the current state of the roster.  One thing I will say is that Dustin Fry seems to have done a good job coaching up a depleted offensive line.

Fry has improved the OL, I think. But, calling this the "best combination" calls into question the value of the snap.

It is harder to be a Morris advocate after the head-scratchers last night, but he was handed incompatible parts for his system. Jimbo Fisher would have had more immediate success because he and Bielema are more compatible. Maybe. Maybe not a good example.

You don't get fired for wins/losses if you are recruiting really well. This team looks like a traditional Big 10 or the old Big East type of team. It is not void of talent. The talent does not line up with what is being asked of it. At all.

Bielema finally realized, after year three, that he needed more team speed. Warren, Barnes, Hammonds, and some other recruits were targeted for that reason. Too little, too late, and not enough to spread around the team.

Bottom line, it is not Bielema's team, it is Morris' team. It is up to Morris figure it out. He'll get a pass for a while, as he should. He is having to start over in terms of team culture. We'll see if the program can survive such a robust rebuild.

Bielema's best may have been the year of Spaight-Philon-Flowers owning the defensive side of the ball. Note that this does not concern a DB! Our DBs were nothing special (I can't immediately think of any of them) but those three dominated the LOS. All three were quick for their position and were strong. They were smart. And, they were schemed together brilliantly.

It doesn't take a complete rebuild (only Spaight was a Bielema recruit) to inject life into things and suddenly it starts to click.

Patience is not easy. It is required here.
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2018, 12:19:49 pm »

After a couple of weeks flashing hope, we've found our norm. This is how we began the Morris era and will play the rest of the way (with what we can hope is continued incremental improvements from time to time). It is what happened with Petrino and Bielema, too.

1. Great coordinators can scheme things up for a while. It accounts for hot starts on offense. But, eventually, the scripted plays are exhausted. The "setting up a play for later" plays are exhausted. You've shown everything but gadgets and gimmick plays. Ole Miss took away the TE tonight (apparently, since I rarely heard their names called) and forced us to rely on QBs and RBs to make yards. (Most here have already concluded that we don't have a single SEC-type WR.)

On defense, it is basically the same. You have about 16 guys that are trusted to be on the field (and are healthy). Those 16 players wear out. Tackling goes south. Once OM established late in the first half that they could drive down the field, at will, we knew we'd have to out-score them.

2. Injuries suck. QB is the most important player on the field even if they aren't the best player on the field. Boyd, our best offensive weapon this season, goes down. Whaley, an able replacement, goes down. Storey, providing a workmanlike performance, was playing well enough to win, but I don't know that we win if he doesn't get hurt. The noose was already tightening.

3. For a couple of weeks the defense looked pretty formidable. Then, the offense flashed. Special teams improved, finally. But when the data set is large enough, we are still not a very good team.The talent on offense is just not made for this system. The tight ends and a couple of RBs won't be forgotten next year, that's for sure, but I don't imagine we'll hear much from the WRs after 2018. The OL showed progress but was outnumbered much of the second half as OM challenged us to throw (neither Storey nor Kelley seemed to scare them much).

Oddities:

1. if Noland is getting back-up reps, but doesn't play, what does that say? Are you trying to protect Noland, avoid a QB controversy, or did Morris really think the 3rd string guy was best-equipped to help the team win?  A head-scratcher.

2. UA does not get the benefit on more calls than I can recall in recent memory. The scrum in the first half seemed to end with a neutral call + the personal foul on OM that started it. Morris doesn't seem to work the refs as well as I am used to seeing (Petrino + Bielema). The pushoff on the first OM TD pass that wasn't called...holding on DL several times....

3. Does Clary snap this bad in practice? Is snapping as a center like being a QB - if you get the yips you might not get rid of them? Almost depressing to see it happen play after play. Seems like a consistently high and right snap could be fixed permanently with a stance tweak. Maybe not.

4. Isn't the block out of bounds call on the final KO return so typical of our year? Good results and a player showing out...and then you get called for blocking 3 yards past the sideline with a whistle right in your ear. Good grief.

===

I am not going to make run of players, make snide comments about them or their coaches, second guess, etc. It is what it is.

Do I think they are better? A bit, maybe more than a bit. Is it going to be rough seeing 40,000 people for the LSU game and 10,000 of them being from LSU? Hell yes, but I'm looking forward to it.

I'll cheer for the seniors, thank them for their time, and wish them the best. I'll sing the alma mater because it means something. And, I'll drive home knowing the next time I see the Hogs coach will have about 50% of the roster made up of "his" guys. He won't need an excuse from me, although he'll have another year or two to get this train moving. All I know is I desperately want 2018 to be the low-point for my fandom. If there are moments that rival it I seriously need to find a new hobby.

Great post and analysis. I'll just try to keep expectations at seeing game to game improvement for the rest of the year. All hope is not lost but reality is we aren't very good at certain positions, have little depth at others and are in transition to boot. It is hard when you are as emotionally invested as most Hog fans are.
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rtr

Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2018, 12:37:53 pm »

Fry has improved the OL, I think. But, calling this the "best combination" calls into question the value of the snap.

It is harder to be a Morris advocate after the head-scratchers last night, but he was handed incompatible parts for his system. Jimbo Fisher would have had more immediate success because he and Bielema are more compatible. Maybe. Maybe not a good example.

You don't get fired for wins/losses if you are recruiting really well. This team looks like a traditional Big 10 or the old Big East type of team. It is not void of talent. The talent does not line up with what is being asked of it. At all.

Bielema finally realized, after year three, that he needed more team speed. Warren, Barnes, Hammonds, and some other recruits were targeted for that reason. Too little, too late, and not enough to spread around the team.

Bottom line, it is not Bielema's team, it is Morris' team. It is up to Morris figure it out. He'll get a pass for a while, as he should. He is having to start over in terms of team culture. We'll see if the program can survive such a robust rebuild.

Bielema's best may have been the year of Spaight-Philon-Flowers owning the defensive side of the ball. Note that this does not concern a DB! Our DBs were nothing special (I can't immediately think of any of them) but those three dominated the LOS. All three were quick for their position and were strong. They were smart. And, they were schemed together brilliantly.

It doesn't take a complete rebuild (only Spaight was a Bielema recruit) to inject life into things and suddenly it starts to click.

Patience is not easy. It is required here.
I agree 2014 was easily Bielema's most talented team and it underperformed.  I would take that secondary now, Tevin Mitchell and Rohain Gaines come to mind.
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TheRazorback500

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2018, 01:06:21 pm »

To me, knowing how to finish is one of our biggest problems. We don't finish drives (too many field goals), tackles (not wrapping up-OM players bouncing off and staying on their feet), and entire games (just like CSU). We need to develop a killer instinct.
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PonderinHog

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Re: We've Found Our Norm Again
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2018, 01:18:10 pm »

Beer has helped me find my Norm again...

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