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Author Topic: Despite the horrendous defense  (Read 1878 times)

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Dr. Starcs

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Despite the horrendous defense
« on: October 13, 2018, 10:34:12 pm »

the game was lost on the 3rd and 5 play. O’Grady was wide open in the middle of the field, not looking for the ball. And didn’t matter because Kelly wasn’t looking at him.

Get the first down there, the game is over. Disappointing we didn’t have a better effort in that moment.

Hogmatic

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 11:29:56 pm »

Sadly you are right and I am surprised the broadcasters didn't say something about CJ being just to the left of the targeted WR and was WIDE OPEN.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 11:31:16 pm »

I believe they did.

That to me was the biggest play of the game.
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berryhog

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 11:31:42 pm »

What about the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on Cantrell?  That was huge.

Hog are ya

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 02:45:37 am »

Yeah that play was a bit strange.  I wonder if it was suppose to be a "legal" pick, or if O'Grady was just positioning to block since, at least to me, seems that Kelly never looks for the tight end....
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ripcohog

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 03:04:02 am »

Ole Miss is a horrible defensive team. We were worse. Find a few athletes on the D side, would ya?

denimchicken

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 03:07:03 am »

we lost this game because of overall effort and horrible play on both sides of the ball.... just like all the other games we've lost. and the many more in the future.

EasyRider81

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 07:24:31 am »

I wouldn't put this loss on one offensive play.

With the game on the line our D didn't even show up and let Ole Miss go 97 yards in 80 seconds. Not counting the missed tackles by #9 on two separate touchdowns where he just decided not to wrap up.

Hoggiedawg

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 07:28:01 am »

I wouldn't put this loss on one offensive play.

With the game on the line our D didn't even show up and let Ole Miss go 97 yards in 80 seconds. Not counting the missed tackles by #9 on two separate touchdowns where he just decided not to wrap up.

#9 needs to ride the pine from now on.

EastTNHog

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 07:31:37 am »

#9 needs to ride the pine from now on.
Almost no effort, poor fundamentals, and no speed. But he’s a senior, so he gets to play....
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Ramtough

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 07:38:03 am »

Still a team searching for a way to lose a football game in the 2nd half. QB play, play calling, ST, Defense, coaching  or overall effort we will find a way with this group!!
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dfwhawg

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 07:49:13 am »

#9 needs to ride the pine from now on.
btw, #9 is one of the team captains but has not played like one.  Not sure how he got selected.
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Hogwild

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2018, 08:11:47 am »

Quote
failed to score a touchdown in the game's final 40 minutes, 50 seconds

against the worst defense the SEC has had in over a decade 

rtr

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 08:14:33 am »

Quarterbacks do not go through the progressions, of course they most often do no have the time to do so.  Last night they did, though. 
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Tick Hog

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2018, 08:35:04 am »

btw, #9 is one of the team captains but has not played like one.  Not sure how he got selected.
May have picked them a little too early. I figure it’s not just on play alone but if Ty Storey isn’t a damn caption then I’m not sure who is. That kid may not be the most talented but he’d step in front of a truck for this team. You win can a lot of football games with kids exactly like him. It’s not just one position group but I’m sick and tired of watching DB’s take lazy and poor angles and giving up long play after long play. There are times when it’s a better athlete making a play but there are still plenty of times it’s effort and want to.
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Hoggiedawg

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2018, 08:53:03 am »

against the worst defense the SEC has had in over a decade 

It's hard to run your O when the QB has to jump 2 feet into the air on most snaps to catch the ball. This completely blows up the quick hitting plays.

Our center should be practicing snaps day and night from this point forward. He can sleep the day before the game.
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2018, 09:00:32 am »

the game was lost on the 3rd and 5 play. O’Grady was wide open in the middle of the field, not looking for the ball. And didn’t matter because Kelly wasn’t looking at him.

Get the first down there, the game is over. Disappointing we didn’t have a better effort in that moment.

That one play didn't lose the game but it sure could have helped put it away.
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Matt Ryan

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2018, 11:31:42 am »

What about at the end of the game when we were trying to run out the clock, and we ran out of bounds a couple of times...
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Oklahawg

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2018, 11:35:29 am »

I will add, that the next-to-last drive that started deep in our territory opened with a great play call. Pettway had separation and a half-step on a skinny post with the safeties walked down in the box. Kelley hits him in his hands. Pull it in and he may not score (he's not faster than OM DBs) but he gets a good 25 yards, and we burn 40 extra seconds of clock. That, if I recall, was the amount needed last night.

Good throw, good route, bad whatever leading to an incompletion.

We got a first down, I believe, before punting. But, you want the clock to roll non-stop. You want the dagger play. You want the confidence and swagger on your side.

OkieBack

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2018, 11:41:32 am »

What about at the end of the game when we were trying to run out the clock, and we ran out of bounds a couple of times...

I thought about this too.  However, if you noticed the rules have changed.  They start the clock again running out of bounds until we get under 2: minutes I think.  But still, the mentality should be to stay in bounds and not run out of bounds.  That's the fault of the running backs coach for not teaching the players how to use the clock properly.  Another exposure to our talent or lack of.  Great players learn that little stuff early on before they ever get to college. 
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2018, 07:18:02 pm »

Bump
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HawgnCorona

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2018, 07:51:34 pm »

Sadly you are right and I am surprised the broadcasters didn't say something about CJ being just to the left of the targeted WR and was WIDE OPEN.

I think they did...

HawgnCorona

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2018, 07:55:11 pm »

I will add, that the next-to-last drive that started deep in our territory opened with a great play call. Pettway had separation and a half-step on a skinny post with the safeties walked down in the box. Kelley hits him in his hands. Pull it in and he may not score (he's not faster than OM DBs) but he gets a good 25 yards, and we burn 40 extra seconds of clock. That, if I recall, was the amount needed last night.

Good throw, good route, bad whatever leading to an incompletion.

We got a first down, I believe, before punting. But, you want the clock to roll non-stop. You want the dagger play. You want the confidence and swagger on your side.

Agreed. there where a few missed opportunities...But then again there was no one play or series that cost us the win.
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Hogmatic

Hog are ya

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2018, 01:59:46 am »

https://www.arkansasfight.com/2018/10/14/17975730/arkansas-vs-ole-miss-box-score-breakdown

Good analysis

I concur counselor....

**  And I will just add, a MUST READ for anyone who objectively cares.  I'm not familiar with Adam Ford until this article, but I will look for his comments in the future.  Give it a read....
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 02:11:38 am by Hog are ya »
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buldozer

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2018, 05:48:37 am »

When the coach felt he had to put shotgun kelly in, the outcome of this game was set. It was just a matter of time before he gave the ball to Ole Ms and put the game away.....
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havok

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2018, 07:22:35 am »

Observations:

1.  Poor Center to QB exchanges halted at least 4 drives, when the timing on 1st or 2nd down caused the play to blow up before it began.

2.  Offensive line about midway 3rd quarter no longer controlled the line of scrimmage.  A Combination of OM adjustments and the OM Defense had zero respect for Kelly's passing, were selling out with 8+ defenders hitting the gaps on about every play.  Strange since OM has like the worst Defense in Division-1..up to that point.

3. Play calling 2nd Half.  When it was evident OM was going to sell out on the Run, there appeared to be no plan to "Counter" this, Like what we did against Bama..with TE screens/RB Wheel routes.  (Of course when your QB is not getting any 2nd team snaps and only practicing the Gravedigger plays, it may be an issue of timing..etc).

4.  Defense just appears very undisciplined.  D-Line ran themselves out of the play, except early on, wasn't able to get off single blocks, allowing a guard or center to get to the 2nd level to block the QB spy (Which appeared was what Greenlaw was doing) over and over giving massive running lanes to their QB.  (of course it is yet another game where the Refs decided that Strangle hold blocking is authorized by any tram against Ark.)

4. Added to Defensive Discipline prob, players either reaching to arm tackle, or in the case of one player who refuses to ensure the tackle first and tries to blast the offensive player with a knock out hit or goes for the strip, only to let the opponent bounce off to get a first down or more when that fails again.  And I want to scream when a defender jumps up after a decent play (Sandwiched between plays where the defense gives up big plays/penalties) to do some sort of celebration act like they are the greatest.


The NewEra

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2018, 07:26:08 am »

The reasons we lost:

1)  Lost our first and second string running back.
2)  Lost our only quarterback that can run this system.
3)  Too many dropped passes.
4)  Way too many bad tackles, whiffed tackles and not able to wrap up TaAmu on multiple occasions.
5)  Loss of Agim and the defense seemed fatigued in the fourth quarter.
6)  Not enough quality depth across the board on this team.
7)  Players losing their composure.
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Missooie

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2018, 07:29:46 am »

I just don’t understand how y’all are so upset about that loss. What did you expect when we have our three best playmakers on O taken out of the game. Did you think we would have an easy time with playcalling and gaining yards?
What do you expect when the previous staff left us with absolutely no depth whatsoever? Our defense is not going to be able to hang on when they are that tired at the end of the game. The few times we tried to put in backups on D we showed that the recent classes were pathetic in recruiting.

The only two things that can be put on the coaching staff immediately is the idiotic calls by Craddock to put Storey in positions to get hurt when he had just been blasted in the head on a targeting call, and the lack of mixed blitz packages called on third downs.
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Kevin

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2018, 07:32:03 am »

our qb at the time cannot read defenses.
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Peter Porker

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2018, 07:39:06 am »

Kelley. 2 Es. It's not hard people.
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2018, 08:04:25 am »

"Violent regression to the mean" is what stood out in that article, and I'm not a stat guy. Almost implies that we play over our heads until some critical tipping point where we come crashing down to the reality of what we really are.
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2018, 08:24:40 am »

I will add, that the next-to-last drive that started deep in our territory opened with a great play call. Pettway had separation and a half-step on a skinny post with the safeties walked down in the box. Kelley hits him in his hands. Pull it in and he may not score (he's not faster than OM DBs) but he gets a good 25 yards, and we burn 40 extra seconds of clock. That, if I recall, was the amount needed last night.

Good throw, good route, bad whatever leading to an incompletion.

We got a first down, I believe, before punting. But, you want the clock to roll non-stop. You want the dagger play. You want the confidence and swagger on your side.

Yes, we did.

When Pettway dropped this one, I had a sick feeling that we would lose. That opportunity was just too big...agree he may not go the distance, but the direction of his slant put him between 2 safeties with lots of room. If someone caught him, he would have gained 30 or 40. A play that positive late in the game would have given us a much-needed shot in the arm.

A couple other points. Right before this play, this is where our KO return guy slips and falls at the 10. Not the way to start. Pettway's catch and run would have more than made up for that. Also, a few plays later we did get a first down. So Pettway's drop wasn't drive killer, it was more of a big-picture/ice-the-game killer.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2018, 08:36:10 am »

I will add, that the next-to-last drive that started deep in our territory opened with a great play call. Pettway had separation and a half-step on a skinny post with the safeties walked down in the box. Kelley hits him in his hands. Pull it in and he may not score (he's not faster than OM DBs) but he gets a good 25 yards, and we burn 40 extra seconds of clock. That, if I recall, was the amount needed last night.

Good throw, good route, bad whatever leading to an incompletion.

We got a first down, I believe, before punting. But, you want the clock to roll non-stop. You want the dagger play. You want the confidence and swagger on your side.

Has to be Cole's fault.  He didn't run downfield and hand the ball to Pettway. 

Observations:

1.  Poor Center to QB exchanges halted at least 4 drives, when the timing on 1st or 2nd down caused the play to blow up before it began.

2.  Offensive line about midway 3rd quarter no longer controlled the line of scrimmage.  A Combination of OM adjustments and the OM Defense had zero respect for Kelly's passing, were selling out with 8+ defenders hitting the gaps on about every play.  Strange since OM has like the worst Defense in Division-1..up to that point.

3. Play calling 2nd Half.  When it was evident OM was going to sell out on the Run, there appeared to be no plan to "Counter" this, Like what we did against Bama..with TE screens/RB Wheel routes.  (Of course when your QB is not getting any 2nd team snaps and only practicing the Gravedigger plays, it may be an issue of timing..etc).

4.  Defense just appears very undisciplined.  D-Line ran themselves out of the play, except early on, wasn't able to get off single blocks, allowing a guard or center to get to the 2nd level to block the QB spy (Which appeared was what Greenlaw was doing) over and over giving massive running lanes to their QB.  (of course it is yet another game where the Refs decided that Strangle hold blocking is authorized by any tram against Ark.)

4. Added to Defensive Discipline prob, players either reaching to arm tackle, or in the case of one player who refuses to ensure the tackle first and tries to blast the offensive player with a knock out hit or goes for the strip, only to let the opponent bounce off to get a first down or more when that fails again.  And I want to scream when a defender jumps up after a decent play (Sandwiched between plays where the defense gives up big plays/penalties) to do some sort of celebration act like they are the greatest.




1.  Yes.  Stalled drives causing FGs.

2.  CK got to throw 4 passes in the second half and was sacked once.  He had one first down pass called in the second half before the last desperate possession.  The pass Pettway dropped in stride.  Why would OM play the pass when our staff tried to run out the clock with Hayden?  They certainly wouldn't have respected it Ty once Boyd left. 

3.  Again, complete lack of aggression.  Ty got 4 passes in his qtr plus in the second half.  One on first down.  Now he might have been banged up from the first half hit but we weren't scared to call runs for him.

4.  Dline was worried about getting pressure because we knew our DBs couldn't cover long and got out of their lanes.
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2018, 08:38:45 am »

I will add, that the next-to-last drive that started deep in our territory opened with a great play call. Pettway had separation and a half-step on a skinny post with the safeties walked down in the box. Kelley hits him in his hands. Pull it in and he may not score (he's not faster than OM DBs) but he gets a good 25 yards, and we burn 40 extra seconds of clock. That, if I recall, was the amount needed last night.

Good throw, good route, bad whatever leading to an incompletion.

We got a first down, I believe, before punting. But, you want the clock to roll non-stop. You want the dagger play. You want the confidence and swagger on your side.

In every close game there is often a "must make" play that secures either the win, or the loss. The Pettway drop was that play. Coupled with a couple of unexplained out of bounds excursions by ball carriers, we gave OM they time they needed to take advantage of a poor defense. Very poor clock management towards the end.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2018, 08:49:01 am »

the game was lost on the 3rd and 5 play. O’Grady was wide open in the middle of the field, not looking for the ball. And didn’t matter because Kelly wasn’t looking at him.

Get the first down there, the game is over. Disappointing we didn’t have a better effort in that moment.

I said in another thread last night, there were 2 plays (on offense) that stood out to me toward the end. One of them—an obvious one—was the Pettway drop on first down, to start that drive. That's the one discussed in the posts above. On that one play, we go from the 10 yard line to mid-field. Yes, absolute killer.

THE OTHER ONE is the play right before this incomplete pass mentioned here by Dr. Starcs. It was a 2nd and 6...and we call a Cole Kelley draw. I know the 3rd-down pass play stands out more, but this just didn't feel right. CK did have a couple decent runs earlier, but I just thought that needed to go to a running back. CK only gained one yard...maybe if that play had gained 4, we would have run a different play on 3rd down.

I think we all agree, that sequence did us in. We had 4 downs (not that Morris would have gone for it, even on a 4th and short) to seal the game. I think at this point, O'Miss had 2 timeouts left. The 1st down gain of 4 was fine…so the game came down to getting 6 YARDS on 2 snaps. There's so much to second guess. Can our line get enough push, twice, to get 6 yards? Is there a more fool-proof pass route where we throw to someone not standing still (making them easy to cover)? I think I saw Mike Irwin say that Cole just threw to the first person he saw…but with O'Grady not looking back, it didn't matter.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2018, 09:02:56 am »

The most frustrating sequence in my opinion was when we had a first down at the OM 42 up 33-24.  OM had not punted since their first possession.  One thing Cole does well is gives our WRs chances on throws downfield.  Instead we run CK first down and get 4.  Timeout.  Chance to get creative perhaps.  Play action a double move to a WR.  Nope.  Run right into an OM stunt losing 5.  Now we have to pass on 3rd and long resulting in a sack.  OM goes on an 84 yard drive after the punt to make the game 33-31.  Warren fails to fair catch the kickoff and only makes it to the 10.  We never threatened OM again.

"Old normal" football thinking is to run clock with the lead.  I thought we were getting new football.  With a bad defense and both RBs capable of pushing piles and getting tough yards hurt, we weren't able to generate anything and didn't even really attempt till it was too late. 
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EastexHawg

Re: Despite the horrendous defense
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2018, 09:17:37 am »

Can we not coach someone to snap the ball?  It's not like breaking the human genome code.
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