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Author Topic: Expectations  (Read 8541 times)

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toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2018, 10:22:41 am »

You must have been really good at dodge ball as a child. You said that the rest of the SEC was weak with the exception of Kentucky so I compared the results of the hog football team against Alabama,  the best SEC football team, to those against the basketball team vs KY.

I was and still am good at dodgeball. Thanks.
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Fan701

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2018, 10:29:49 am »

Taking all of the above as true, how do you explain CMA's career success and longevity? Never been fired. Never had a losing season. Almost always finishes near the top in the conference at every school he coaches at. Plus, his last two bosses hated to see him go and the fanbases were disappointed as well.

How does a guy who sucks as bad as you claim he does keep a job, not just at Arkansas, but anywhere?

I was wondering the same thing myself.  To hear his critics tell it, MA knows zero about basketball, and his teams are incompetent in almost all areas.  Yet, most years he's in the upper part of the conference, often wins more than twenty, pretty much never below .500 in conference.  How can this be explained if he's as bad as I'm told?
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #152 on: October 10, 2018, 10:34:24 am »

I was wondering the same thing myself.  To hear his critics tell it, MA knows zero about basketball, and his teams are incompetent in almost all areas.  Yet, most years he's in the upper part of the conference, often wins more than twenty, pretty much never below .500 in conference.  How can this be explained if he's as bad as I'm told?

There's a perfect one word explanation for it but it escapes me at the moment. It was right on the tip of my tongue but I can't seem to recall it. I'll post it if I remember.

hogsanity

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #153 on: October 10, 2018, 10:58:42 am »

I was wondering the same thing myself.  To hear his critics tell it, MA knows zero about basketball, and his teams are incompetent in almost all areas.  Yet, most years he's in the upper part of the conference, often wins more than twenty, pretty much never below .500 in conference.  How can this be explained if he's as bad as I'm told?

As I have often said, Mike is a good coach. Not horrid, but certainly not great.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2018, 11:02:00 am »

As I have often said, Mike is a good coach.

If you mean it when you say this, how can you believe that a good coach be so horribly deficient at the basics of basketball as you have claimed for, what seems to be, a hundred years?
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The_Iceman

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #155 on: October 10, 2018, 11:02:03 am »

As I have often said, Mike is a good coach. Not horrid, but certainly not great.

Which is what this program needed after Heath and Pel. Stability, solid leadership, and good results.

yocdaddy

Re: Expectations
« Reply #156 on: October 10, 2018, 11:05:12 am »

The SEC is loaded in basketball, maybe even more so than last season.  However, freshman in basketball can compete easier than football.  I would expect us to be really competitive for an NCAA tournament spot, maybe the 7th or 8th bid from this league.  I also think a young cast is likely to mean inconsistent play, which could mean we finish anywhere from 6th to 10th.  I like our length, depth, and athleticism.  I think we are likely to be far better defensively than we've been, but not as explosive offensively. 

I predict a 9-9 SEC record, with a 19-12 overall mark.

hogsanity

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #157 on: October 10, 2018, 11:06:28 am »

Taking all of the above as true, how do you explain CMA's career success and longevity? Never been fired. Never had a losing season. Almost always finishes near the top in the conference at every school he coaches at. Plus, his last two bosses hated to see him go and the fanbases were disappointed as well.

How does a guy who sucks as bad as you claim he does keep a job, not just at Arkansas, but anywhere?


I'll argue the point that the Mizzu fan base was sad to see him go.

What success? He wins a bunch of games, yet rarely has anything to show for it. As you and I have argued many times, college basketball has become what do you do in the ncaat. Mike has not done much there since his one run at Mizzu.
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hogsanity

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #158 on: October 10, 2018, 11:09:39 am »

If you mean it when you say this, how can you believe that a good coach be so horribly deficient at the basics of basketball as you have claimed for, what seems to be, a hundred years?

that is what keeps him from being great. If his teams were better at doing things like rebounding and not leaving shooters wide open they would win more games, especially come tourney time.
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razorback1829

Re: Expectations
« Reply #159 on: October 10, 2018, 11:29:48 am »

Taking all of the above as true, how do you explain CMA's career success and longevity? Never been fired. Never had a losing season. Almost always finishes near the top in the conference at every school he coaches at. Plus, his last two bosses hated to see him go and the fanbases were disappointed as well.

How does a guy who sucks as bad as you claim he does keep a job, not just at Arkansas, but anywhere?

Donít forget rising attendance and ticket sales. Has a role in it as well. As evidenced by our sagging football numbers.
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razorback1829

Re: Expectations
« Reply #160 on: October 10, 2018, 11:30:34 am »

As I have often said, Mike is a good coach. Not horrid, but certainly not great.

96% of college basketball coaches.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #161 on: October 10, 2018, 11:41:29 am »

Donít forget rising attendance and ticket sales. Has a role in it as well. As evidenced by our sagging football numbers.

Attendance is a poor argument in this case.  We averaged 50% of capacity in actual attendance in Mike's 5th and 6th seasons at Arkansas.  The equivalent would be averaging 38,000 fans per game for two seasons in football.  A football coach wouldn't survive that especially not in their 5th and 6th seasons.  Basketball doesn't pay near the percentage of the bills it once did because of football and SEC revenue.  It isn't as important financially as it once was. 
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Fan701

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #162 on: October 10, 2018, 11:42:11 am »

I'll argue the point that the Mizzu fan base was sad to see him go.

What success? He wins a bunch of games, yet rarely has anything to show for it. As you and I have argued many times, college basketball has become what do you do in the ncaat. Mike has not done much there since his one run at Mizzu.
You know, I think you might be right about the Mizzou fan base.  At the end, there were rumblings, even though MA had assembled what proved to be a 30 game winner the next season.  It appears that perhaps he knew what he was doing, and the fans were ignorant.  Also, when you take into account that when his players were gone, Mizzou basketball pretty much collapsed, it would argue that the wishes of fans with regards to coaches are often best ignored.
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Fan701

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #163 on: October 10, 2018, 12:04:39 pm »

Their fans saw a team who had quit on him, very little was happening in the way of recruiting and a scholarship imbalance had setup a rebuild situation in 2 seasons.  Mizzou's mistake was the replacement hire and Haith's mistake was trying to avoid the rebuild by taking transfers.  It turned a tricky situation setup by Mike into a disaster.

I think part of the problem was that he was already negotiating behind the scenes to come to U of A, so perhaps ceased recruiting, and maybe the team didn't get his full attention the last month or so.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #164 on: October 10, 2018, 12:08:13 pm »

I think part of the problem was that he was already negotiating behind the scenes to come to U of A, so perhaps ceased recruiting, and maybe the team didn't get his full attention the last month or so.

I could see that. Coach A bleeds cardinal and white and he was so ready to come back home.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #165 on: October 10, 2018, 12:14:43 pm »

If you mean it when you say this, how can you believe that a good coach be so horribly deficient at the basics of basketball as you have claimed for, what seems to be, a hundred years?

It's not a belief. It's reality. Mike coached teams have rarely rebounded well and always foul a lot. Look up the stats.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #166 on: October 10, 2018, 12:15:27 pm »

NCAAT teams isn't necessarily the end-all, be-all for judging a conference in a particular year.  One year (Portis frosh year) the SEC got three teams in, and they all made at least the Sweet Sixteen.  CUSA has advanced four straight years in the NCAAT, and only once was the representative the regular-season champ.  It clearly has much more than one team a year that is as good as the majority of the field.  Big conferences that are weak at the bottom are typically under-valued by the computer rankings because of SOS feedback effects.  Likewise, small conferences with decent bottoms are overvalued for the same reason.  The Big 12 has has been overrated for years.  The spread in the number of teams from the conferences inflates the actual differences in the conferences.  You see that in the results.  Otherwise, mid-majors wouldn't fare so well. The ACC looked like a juggernaut a couple of years ago by the computer and the committee and then hardly advanced except for UNC, which got outplayed in the second round by Arkansas. 

The top of the SEC has suffered from the bottom consistently having more than a couple of really bad teams.  Last year the worst team in the SEC according to Pomeroy was #108 Ole Miss.  In previous years at least two teams were usually sub-150.  That kills the schedules of bubble teams and can cost the conference a couple of bids. Portis should have been in the NCAAT in both his campaigns.

Our non conference scheduling went a long way in keeping us out of the 2014 NCAAT.  Using kenpom, our NCSOS was 305 for the 2014 season.  Ran up a nice record.  But it was a weak NCAAT resume schedule.  Didn't play a road game in the non conference.  Went 3-7 on the road with 2 of those wins coming over 15-16 Vandy and 14-19 Miss St which finished 205th in the kenpom rankings.  Bama finished 13-19 yet beat us by 25 on the final day of the regular season.  Portis' teams benefited greatly record-wise from weak schedules.  Our SEC schedule in 2015 was the weakest in the SEC and among power conferences. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #167 on: October 10, 2018, 12:18:17 pm »

I think part of the problem was that he was already negotiating behind the scenes to come to U of A, so perhaps ceased recruiting, and maybe the team didn't get his full attention the last month or so.

He had one scholarship to give because of the roster setup.  Now some will speculate he would have gotten Otto with it. 

Your theory could have some truth which would justifiably make a fan base mad.  Hatfield looked to bail on us and recruiting suffered. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #168 on: October 10, 2018, 12:40:55 pm »

To get back to the topic, Gafford will be the best player on the court in the majority of our games.   Harris should have a big positive impact. Non conference is not very difficult outside of Texas and IU.  Georgia Tech will be a bottomfeeder in the ACC again.  TT lost a lot.  WKU may be a competitive mid major if their transfers gel together.  SEC has finally improved to the point where mediocrity won't get you a top 5 finish.  We only play Tenn, UK and AU once but all on the road.  Only play MSU, Bama and Florida once( at home).  So we only play the teams projected to be in the top half of the conference once with the exception of LSU.  That is remarkable.  This could very well inflate our record. 
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #169 on: October 10, 2018, 01:08:36 pm »

9 newcomers. Hard to know how soon the team gels but looking back over CMA's coaching career, they are likely to outperform media projections.
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Fan701

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #170 on: October 10, 2018, 01:23:55 pm »

To get back to the topic, Gafford will be the best player on the court in the majority of our games.   Harris should have a big positive impact. Non conference is not very difficult outside of Texas and IU.  Georgia Tech will be a bottomfeeder in the ACC again.  TT lost a lot.  WKU may be a competitive mid major if their transfers gel together.  SEC has finally improved to the point where mediocrity won't get you a top 5 finish.  We only play Tenn, UK and AU once but all on the road.  Only play MSU, Bama and Florida once( at home).  So we only play the teams projected to be in the top half of the conference once with the exception of LSU.  That is remarkable.  This could very well inflate our record.
I noted the luck of the draw in the scheduling, too.  Teams like Ole Miss and Texas A&M that I expect to be bad we play twice.  Still, in the end we'll have to have some quality wins to make it to the tournament, and we'll have plenty of opportunities along the way.  I'm guessing eight teams from the SEC make it and that we'll be battling Mizzou and Vanderbilt for that last spot.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 01:43:50 pm by Fan701 »
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niels_boar

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #171 on: October 10, 2018, 02:28:12 pm »

Our non conference scheduling went a long way in keeping us out of the 2014 NCAAT.  Using kenpom, our NCSOS was 305 for the 2014 season.  Ran up a nice record.  But it was a weak NCAAT resume schedule.  Didn't play a road game in the non conference.  Went 3-7 on the road with 2 of those wins coming over 15-16 Vandy and 14-19 Miss St which finished 205th in the kenpom rankings.  Bama finished 13-19 yet beat us by 25 on the final day of the regular season.  Portis' teams benefited greatly record-wise from weak schedules.  Our SEC schedule in 2015 was the weakest in the SEC and among power conferences.

We've had this debate before.  Go read it in the archive.  The nonconference schedule only appeared weak because the six rent-a-wins were all atrocious sub-250 teams.  We could have had a much better SOS and computer ranking with the same record by simply playing 4 or 5 teams in the #150 to #200 range.  The part of the non-conference schedule that was meant to be competitive was strong - six 20+ win teams, three on a neutral court.  In that debate I show that many bubble teams that got bids did less than we did, some of which hardly won a game after January.  Even with the loss to Bama, our 8 of our last 11 with a road win over eventual NC Runnerup on the road was en fuego by comparison. All bubble teams have warts.  You're wrong. 

If UK and UT had been seeded properly, we would have gotten in.  If the committee had deemphasized the RPI, we would have gotten in.  We finished the year #44 in Pomeroy, same as last year when we were a #7 seed.  Go figure.

MakingPlays

Re: Expectations
« Reply #172 on: October 10, 2018, 02:32:09 pm »

You must have been really good at dodge ball as a child. You said that the rest of the SEC was weak with the exception of Kentucky so I compared the results of the hog football team against Alabama,  the best SEC football team, to those against the basketball team vs KY.

This dude is all over the place and just embarrassing himself.  Every time someone shuts down one of his weak arguments or comparisons he just changes the subject to something else that's even more irrelevant.

MakingPlays

Re: Expectations
« Reply #173 on: October 10, 2018, 02:39:25 pm »

I'll argue the point that the Mizzu fan base was sad to see him go.

What success? He wins a bunch of games, yet rarely has anything to show for it. As you and I have argued many times, college basketball has become what do you do in the ncaat. Mike has not done much there since his one run at Mizzu.

How dare he win a bunch of games!  We deserve better!

toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #174 on: October 10, 2018, 02:43:45 pm »

This dude is all over the place and just embarrassing himself.  Every time someone shuts down one of his weak arguments or comparisons he just changes the subject to something else that's even more irrelevant.

What post season success has Anderson achieved at Arkansas? What basis do you have for believing things will change? Would you say you are what you are after nearly two decades?
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Kevin

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #175 on: October 10, 2018, 02:45:12 pm »

It is all about how a person wants to measure success

Win 20-25 games, graduate kids, mike does the job well

If it is about hardware, the mike does not do the job well.

Which to me means he is a good coach, not great.

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azhog10

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #176 on: October 10, 2018, 04:04:00 pm »

It is all about how a person wants to measure success

Win 20-25 games, graduate kids, mike does the job well

If it is about hardware, the mike does not do the job well.

Which to me means he is a good coach, not great.
By that thought process there are only 12 great coaches over the last 20 years. Of those 12 coaches that have one hardware over the last 20 years; one is in the NBA, two have been fired or retired due to consistent NCAA violations, another retired, and another one no longer has a job in NCAA coaching at all. So only 7 current NCAA coaches have won hardware over the last 20 years, therefore there are only 7 great coaches currently in the NCAA right now. 

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #177 on: October 10, 2018, 04:06:33 pm »

We've had this debate before.  Go read it in the archive.  The nonconference schedule only appeared weak because the six rent-a-wins were all atrocious sub-250 teams.  We could have had a much better SOS and computer ranking with the same record by simply playing 4 or 5 teams in the #150 to #200 range.  The part of the non-conference schedule that was meant to be competitive was strong - six 20+ win teams, three on a neutral court.  In that debate I show that many bubble teams that got bids did less than we did, some of which hardly won a game after January.  Even with the loss to Bama, our 8 of our last 11 with a road win over eventual NC Runnerup on the road was en fuego by comparison. All bubble teams have warts.  You're wrong. 

If UK and UT had been seeded properly, we would have gotten in.  If the committee had deemphasized the RPI, we would have gotten in.  We finished the year #44 in Pomeroy, same as last year when we were a #7 seed.  Go figure.

I don't need to read it.  We could have scheduled better.  But that isn't the reality of what happened.  The MEAC opponent was on the schedule.  Can't change history.  We did it to ourselves.  We failed in the RPI game that season.  The SEC was still failing at it as well. 

SMU - did win 27 games but went to the NIT
Cal - we know they were in the NIT - was a loss in the non conference
Minnesota - 25 wins but went to the NIT
Gonzaga - NCAAT 8 seed, we lost to them by 10
How was this strong?

Sure we could have scheduled a better class of losers like we have the last few seasons but we didn't. 

The NCAAT committee couldn't look at us and say "Kentucky is going to make the tournament final so that means we have to put Arkansas in."  Kentucky was a 10 loss team on Selection Sunday who had lost 3 of their last 4 to end the regular season.  Tennessee was a 12 loss team at the time of selection whose best ooc wins were over ACC Champs UVa and eventual 13 loss Xavier.  Tennessee played DII Tusculum in the non conference. 
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toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #178 on: October 10, 2018, 04:08:32 pm »

By that thought process there are only 12 great coaches over the last 20 years. Of those 12 coaches that have one hardware over the last 20 years; one is in the NBA, two have been fired or retired due to consistent NCAA violations, another retired, and another one no longer has a job in NCAA coaching at all. So only 7 current NCAA coaches have won hardware over the last 20 years, therefore there are only 7 great coaches currently in the NCAA right now.

Guess conference titles don't exist.
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Fan701

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #179 on: October 10, 2018, 04:13:16 pm »

I don't need to read it.  We could have scheduled better.  But that isn't the reality of what happened.  The MEAC opponent was on the schedule.  Can't change history.  We did it to ourselves.  We failed in the RPI game that season.  The SEC was still failing at it as well. 

SMU - did win 27 games but went to the NIT
Cal - we know they were in the NIT - was a loss in the non conference
Minnesota - 25 wins but went to the NIT
Gonzaga - NCAAT 8 seed, we lost to them by 10
How was this strong?
Sure we could have scheduled a better class of losers like we have the last few seasons but we didn't. 


The NCAAT committee couldn't look at us and say "Kentucky is going to make the tournament final so that means we have to put Arkansas in."  Kentucky was a 10 loss team on Selection Sunday who had lost 3 of their last 4 to end the regular season.  Tennessee was a 12 loss team at the time of selection whose best ooc wins were over ACC Champs UVa and eventual 13 loss Xavier.  Tennessee played DII Tusculum in the non conference.
Nielsboar is right that that was a deserving team.  That team was on fire most of February.  The problem is that they shot themselves in the foot with those two pitiful losses to end the season.  Had they won either of them, they're in.  They made it so easy for the committee to overlook them, and so the committee did.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #180 on: October 10, 2018, 04:21:43 pm »

Nielsboar is right that that was a deserving team.  That team was on fire most of February.  The problem is that they shot themselves in the foot with those two pitiful losses to end the season.  Had they won either of them, they're in.  They made it so easy for the committee to overlook them, and so the committee did.


They may have needed to win both.  But I agree we had put ourselves firmly on the bubble as one of last possible teams in before the last two losses.  But it isn't like we got a 1 seed in the NIT.  We were a 3 seed suggesting our resume wasn't quite as strong as we thought.  That team did beat UK twice.  The 14-15 team ran up a gaudy record by beating no team of consequence and getting blown out in each big matchup.  But they managed to win almost all of the games they should have with the exception of Clemson and shorthanded LSU on senior day in BWA. 
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hawgball40

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #181 on: October 10, 2018, 04:40:05 pm »

Wow this is kind of a weird thread.  Not saying you're wrong, (although I disagree strongly) but for those of you insinuating it, do you really think Arkansas is today considered a "racist" basketball program for many???  I'm not buying that......

And though I'll admit to also derailing to the OP, and also I haven't read entire thread which I most always do before posting, but it also seems like people are bringing up Chad Morris here as well?  What the heck does that have to do with the expectations of the basketball season!!?!??
you would have to be completely brain dead to believe that the racial scandal doesn't still have an effect on our program.
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MakingPlays

Re: Expectations
« Reply #182 on: October 10, 2018, 04:43:04 pm »


What post season success has Anderson achieved at Arkansas? What basis do you have for believing things will change? Would you say you are what you are after nearly two decades?

He's made it to the tournament 3 of the past 4 years.  He's won 2 NCAA tournament games in that time, and I think everyone is aware of the referee cheat job in the UNC game a couple years ago when we were winning with 2 minutes left until the refs took the game away from us.

Aside from all that, I can just tell from reading your posts you don't keep up with college basketball that much.  Everyone that follows it knows the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot, that's why millions of people fill out brackets and nobody has a perfect bracket because it's so unpredictable.  So much is dependent on match-ups and location.  You get the right match-ups and get lucky and get put close to home like South Carolina did in 2017 and you can make it into the final 4, without having a final 4 caliber team.  Calapari with Kentucky has the best team on paper almost every single year and has only won the tournament once. 

The key is to get a coach that can consistently get you there to have a chance, CMA has shown he can consistently get us there.  Luckily, most fans and the people that are in position of power realize that and don't think like you and willing to get rid of a proven coach to take a chance on the next John Pelphrey and set the program back 10 years again.  If you're so anxious to go watch a rebuild go watch the football team, as much as you like change and making football comparisons I'm kinda surprised all your time is not taken up at Monday Morning QB.
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hawgball40

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #183 on: October 10, 2018, 04:43:06 pm »

Are we doomed to poor recruiting for eternity? Like I said, negative recruiting happens everywhere. It's a Mike Anderson problem if he can't overcome that.

There are many schools who have gone through a scandal and come out and produced better than Arkansas.
you moved the goal posts. we're not just talking any old scandal here. we're talking a scandal involving racism against a national championship winning coach. you can be in denial all you want but you are smoking some good crack if you don't think black kids would be turned off about playing basketball at Arkansas after the scandal involving Nolan.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #184 on: October 10, 2018, 04:48:36 pm »

He's made it to the tournament 3 of the past 4 years.  He's won 2 NCAA tournament games in that time, and I think everyone is aware of the referee cheat job in the UNC game a couple years ago when we were winning with 2 minutes left until the refs took the game away from us.

Aside from all that, I can just tell from reading your posts you don't keep up with college basketball that much.  Everyone that follows it knows the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot, that's why millions of people fill out brackets and nobody has a perfect bracket because it's so unpredictable.  So much is dependent on match-ups and location.  You get the right match-ups and get lucky and get put close to home like South Carolina did in 2017 and you can make it into the final 4, without having a final 4 caliber team.  Calapari with Kentucky has the best team on paper almost every single year and has only won the tournament once. 

The key is to get a coach that can consistently get you there to have a chance, CMA has shown he can consistently get us there.  Luckily, most fans and the people that are in position of power realize that and don't think like you and willing to get rid of a proven coach to take a chance on the next John Pelphrey and set the program back 10 years again.  If you're so anxious to go watch a rebuild go watch the football team, as much as you like change and making football comparisons I'm kinda surprised all your time is not taken up at Monday Morning QB.

Why the heck would we hire the next Pelphrey?  Pelphrey was hired because major issues had been exposed in our program and a near complete roster rebuild was going to happen after season 1.  Not an attractive position at the time.
 Mike have our program in the same shape Heath did when he was fired?  Of course not.  (disclaimer:  not in any way suggesting we should consider a coaching change, subject shouldn't even come up as Mike will be here till he doesn't want to be)  To Mike's credit, our job should be much attractive when he decides to retire.  (if we bother to do an actual search)
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MakingPlays

Re: Expectations
« Reply #185 on: October 10, 2018, 05:05:36 pm »

Why the heck would we hire the next Pelphrey?  Pelphrey was hired because major issues had been exposed in our program and a near complete roster rebuild was going to happen after season 1.  Not an attractive position at the time.
 Mike have our program in the same shape Heath did when he was fired?  Of course not.  (disclaimer:  not in any way suggesting we should consider a coaching change, subject shouldn't even come up as Mike will be here till he doesn't want to be)  To Mike's credit, our job should be much attractive when he decides to retire.  (if we bother to do an actual search)

Not sure if you guys know this or not but Arkansas is not a blue blood school.  We're a school that's going to have 3 options when it comes to hiring... 

A. Hire an up and comer (most likely scenario and what Arkansas does most of the time)
B. Get a veteran coach out of his prime that's on the hot seat or got fired from somewhere else.
C. Get a coach with ties to the program or from the area that wants to be at Arkansas (What Happened with CMA)

So, yes like I said, we'd most likely be looking at the next John Pelphrey hiring an up and comer, that's what we do at Arkansas, see Chad Morris, John Pelphrey, and Stan Heath for example.  And if you don't truly believe that just look at Memphis last 3 hires, who probably has the equivalent basketball history as Arkansas.  Hired and up and comer assistant in Josh Pastner, hired a coach out of his prime in Tubby Smith, and now hired an inexperienced coach with ties to the program in Penny Hardaway.  A coaching search is not going to go like some of you guys have imagined in your head, we were beyond fortunate to land CMA, he was by far the best candidate that we had a realistic shot at.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #186 on: October 10, 2018, 05:26:39 pm »

Not sure if you guys know this or not but Arkansas is not a blue blood school.  We're a school that's going to have 3 options when it comes to hiring... 

A. Hire an up and comer (most likely scenario and what Arkansas does most of the time)
B. Get a veteran coach out of his prime that's on the hot seat or got fired from somewhere else.
C. Get a coach with ties to the program or from the area that wants to be at Arkansas (What Happened with CMA)

So, yes like I said, we'd most likely be looking at the next John Pelphrey hiring an up and comer, that's what we do at Arkansas, see Chad Morris, John Pelphrey, and Stan Heath for example.  And if you don't truly believe that just look at Memphis last 3 hires, who probably has the equivalent basketball history as Arkansas.  Hired and up and comer assistant in Josh Pastner, hired a coach out of his prime in Tubby Smith, and now hired an inexperienced coach with ties to the program in Penny Hardaway.  A coaching search is not going to go like some of you guys have imagined in your head, we were beyond fortunate to land CMA, he was by far the best candidate that we had a realistic shot at.

If you are correct, then we are [CENSORED] when Mike retires.  Might as well hire another twig from the Nolan tumbleweed.  Are you trying to add to reasons why this program isnít worth attention?

toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #187 on: October 10, 2018, 09:22:39 pm »

we were beyond fortunate to land CMA, he was by far the best candidate that we had a realistic shot at.

Mental gymnastics like you read about.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: Expectations
« Reply #188 on: October 10, 2018, 09:28:41 pm »

you moved the goal posts. we're not just talking any old scandal here. we're talking a scandal involving racism against a national championship winning coach. you can be in denial all you want but you are smoking some good crack if you don't think black kids would be turned off about playing basketball at Arkansas after the scandal involving Nolan.

So, I'll ask again. Are we doomed to an eternity of recruiting damnation because of a scandal involving racism against a national championship winning coach? Wouldn't the hiring of his protege absolve that? Is that why Mike didn't get [insert the highest rated prospect out of AR every other year]?

I'm just asking because all I can gather is that's what you're insinuating.

MakingPlays

Re: Expectations
« Reply #189 on: October 10, 2018, 10:34:47 pm »

If you are correct, then we are [CENSORED] when Mike retires.  Might as well hire another twig from the Nolan tumbleweed.  Are you trying to add to reasons why this program isnít worth attention?

Hopefully when Mike retires the program is in great condition and it's really attractive job.  He hasn't gotten it to that point yet.  You don't hear anybody on here saying he's gotten us to where we want to be already.  What myself and others are saying is he's improved it dramatically from the time he took it over and he's still improving it. 

We have a good coach that 90% of programs would love to have.  He's scandal free, graduates his kids, great ambassador, and has a competitive team with an exciting brand of basketball that puts butts in the seats.  You'll NEVER go to Bud Walton Arena and feel like the Hogs don't have a chance to win the game no matter who is in the arena or what their rank is.  But, you guys are mad because he hasn't won a National Champion in 7 years after the program had been in the dumps for 10+ years prior to him getting here.  Me personally I would have thought he'd have a sweet 16 by now, but I can also use common sense to see that there was a couple of unfortunate events that prevented that.  Portis and Qualls changing their mind at the last minute and deciding to go pro early is one of them, the refs taking that UNC game away from us is another, and you can probably throw Ted Kapita not making to campus and and the funny money situation all happening at the same time as another set back.  Even through all of that we've still been very competitive.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:16:54 pm by MakingPlays »
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #190 on: October 10, 2018, 10:50:07 pm »

If you are correct, then we are [CENSORED] when Mike retires.  Might as well hire another twig from the Nolan tumbleweed.  Are you trying to add to reasons why this program isnít worth attention?

Is this some more of your objectivity with regard to our coach? A twig? Really?

You are a hater, plain and simple.

zenchow

Re: Expectations
« Reply #191 on: October 11, 2018, 08:34:14 am »

all this and we haven't even played a game yet....fascinating...
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hawgball40

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #192 on: October 11, 2018, 08:36:09 am »

So, I'll ask again. Are we doomed to an eternity of recruiting damnation because of a scandal involving racism against a national championship winning coach? Wouldn't the hiring of his protege absolve that? Is that why Mike didn't get [insert the highest rated prospect out of AR every other year]?

I'm just asking because all I can gather is that's what you're insinuating.
I've already answered this dog, you chose to ignore that and move the goal posts every time. To restate what i've already said twice now, i do think that we are seeing a change in regards to recruiting, and its about time. We was in on a top 25 recruit and actually had his commitment before he went elsewhere, possibly for dubious reasons.. The last two classes have been strong in my opinion. any class with a player like Gafford in it is strong by its self. when you get a player that good in a class, it doesn't matter if all the other players was bust, but they weren't. Gabe's a pretty good player who just needs to develop. He has all of the tools to play at this level and possibly even the next level.Hall arguably showed some promise but elected to transfer.  And this most recent class is one of the best in my opinion for Anderson. You get two pretty good 6-8 bigs one is an athletic freak who dunks, rebounds, and alters shots (henderson) and the other is a smooth operator who can bang in the post on both ends of the floor and also alter shots(chaney), and another big who has size and is an absolute man in the paint and can alter shots, plus he has size and is strong as an ox(Ali). You get the pure scorer combo guard (embery) who is regarded in the same light as shake milton and trae young among oklahoma HS coaches who have seen him play. You get the shooter (Joe) who could end up being really good, and you get a gamer who plays good defense and can score and pass(Sills). You get the size athleticism and playmaking at the wing (Phillips) and you get a big wing who can stroke it from 3 and rebounds well (Jones). I mean this class could turn out to be pretty good. Obviously he needs to keep building on this success and continue to try and elevate our recruiting level, but this class shows promise imo.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #193 on: October 11, 2018, 09:05:02 am »

I do hate the situation.  Plain and simple.

You hate the coach, plain and simple.

The team has put together two of the best seasons in 20 years here, and you hate that?
So you are for going back to the Heath/Altman/Pelphrey days?

Why do you and a few others have to try and make every thread a referendum on the coach? You have been female dogging for at least 7 years now since it is clear you hate the coach. Add in the previous 10 before his hire and you have been miserable for 17 straight. Says more about you than it does our coach.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #194 on: October 11, 2018, 09:10:03 am »

You hate the coach, plain and simple.

The team has put together two of the best seasons in 20 years here, and you hate that?
So you are for going back to the Heath/Altman/Pelphrey days?

Why do you and a few others have to try and make every thread a referendum on the coach? You have been female dogging for at least 7 years now since it is clear you hate the coach. Add in the previous 10 before his hire and you have been miserable for 17 straight. Says more about you than it does our coach.

I donít hate Mike. Far from it.

Ok seasons but overblown with little accomplished. 

Dumb, lazy question.

I have in no way made this thread a referendum on our coach. 

Again, I donít hate the coach. I hate the anchor on our program and those like you who enable it. 

ShadowHawg

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #195 on: October 11, 2018, 09:14:14 am »

I donít hate Mike. Far from it.

Ok seasons but overblown with little accomplished. 

Dumb, lazy question.

I have in no way made this thread a referendum on our coach. 

Again, I donít hate the coach. I hate the anchor on our program and those like you who enable it.

We get it, you hate the coach.

hawgball40

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #196 on: October 11, 2018, 09:48:27 am »

I donít hate Mike. Far from it.

Ok seasons but overblown with little accomplished. 

Dumb, lazy question.

I have in no way made this thread a referendum on our coach. 

Again, I donít hate the coach. I hate the anchor on our program and those like you who enable it.
you don't hate the coach but he's an anchor on the program. why is he an anchor on the program? you think he's unfirable? I assure you he's not, but cooler heads on the hill understand the situation with the bball program and they are gonna give him just a little more time to prove that he can get us to the promised land. these next 2 years are important for him and for our program. I think he will deliver. I understand those who disagree
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Hawg Red

Re: Expectations
« Reply #197 on: October 11, 2018, 10:27:42 am »

I love Mike and think he's completely cleaned the program up. To an earlier point, we're competitive every home game and we have been better on the road/neutral courts. Recruiting is trending up (even if some kids are still leaving the state). He's starting to achieve some consistency in making the NCAA tournament. I won't apologize for thinking we should have done more than we have in the NCAA tournament by now, though. A 17-point blowout in the first round is the opposite of what needed to happen last year. I think a good deal of blame needs to go on Mike for that because we did not look prepared to make a run. But....he's our coach and it isn't even a question, really. No hot seat. We'd be crazy to fire him. And you guys know I've been critical at numerous times throughout his tenure and I've clashed with multiple posters in this thread who have cast me a hater. But we are just not a "big dog" program right now, so I don't see why anyone would be unhappy with the state of the program right now. Sure, we all thought we'd have seen a little more by now, but that doesn't mean things have been bad. You fire a coach when things are bad. You constantly complain when things are bad. Maybe I thought things were bad at various times since Mike has been, but I know now that they really weren't. I think we're gonna make the NIT this year. Not bad. I will be less upset about that than I was/am about the first round flameout vs. Butler. We have an identity now. That's good. Of course we need to actually do something in March. Might not ever happen under Mike, but no real point in constantly grumbling. No one is trying to hang one-or-two-and-out banners in the Bud, but we're miles and miles away from Pelphrey on and off the court and miles away from Heath off the court and a good bit away on-court, IMO. Mike's 58 and making good coin. He's gonna retire here. There won't be any 14-win seasons like Pelphrey had that get a coach fired. We've already seen the worst year Mike will have at Arkansas. It was a 16-win season sandwiched in between seasons of 22, 27, 26 and 23 wins. I do think the ceiling is limited, and I will be disappointed in myself if Mike proves that wrong (but gladly so). There's more than enough promise going forward to resign ourselves to Mike retiring here without constantly complaining about the state of the program or lack of success. We were close to beating a UNC team that got a lot of help from the stripes and eventually won the whole thing. Maybe the ceiling is higher if things break right and the talent is there. Chemistry *should* be better going forward with a core group that is tight with and has played with each other for years.

navyhog24

Re: Expectations
« Reply #198 on: October 11, 2018, 10:39:54 am »

Paragraphs are your friend.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Expectations
« Reply #199 on: October 11, 2018, 10:47:30 am »

No reason to get into these deep discussions again.  I simply felt it was ludicrous to suggest we would have to make another Pelphrey hire when Mike retires.  My apologies.  I shouldn't have addressed it. 

I'm wavering around 20-21 regular season wins.  10 non conf, 10 conf.  Lose the 3 really tough SEC road games and go 10-5 in the others.  With half the power conference teams making the NCAAT, that will get us in. 
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