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Author Topic: The fake faircatch  (Read 11179 times)

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chiefhawg

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #100 on: September 16, 2018, 08:16:14 am »

He never raised his hand
This: In film study, the Mean Green saw something that intrigued them about the way Arkansas covered punts.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/9/16/17864636/north-texas-fake-fair-catch-punt-return-td
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DeltaBoy

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2018, 08:24:32 am »

It  all over DFW news this morning about UNT Fake Fair Catch play!
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HawgcallWPS

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2018, 08:24:52 am »

The ďitĒ that they noticed in film study is called hustle and the lack of hustle (ie finishing plays) is on big ole 386 and the program he built. Hustle beats talent when talent doesnít work and that is the problem with this program.

Hogarusa

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2018, 08:34:32 am »

Its weird to call it the ďfake fair catchĒ play when he didnt make any sort of fair catch signal. If he would have, refs would have stopped the play.  I really dont even know what means.
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popcornhog

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2018, 08:35:53 am »

Hate to be a bad sport, but the next time he called a fair catch someone should have obliterated him

Why?

pigture perfect

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #105 on: September 16, 2018, 08:52:54 am »

It was a scripted play that they were probably going to use on the first series but they intercepted us. Granted that the conditions had to be right and they were. Watch the wall that was built for him. They ran it to their bench side so that it looked like the players were just running off the field. But they were sealing off any pursuit. It was scripted perfectly.
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woodrow hog call

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #106 on: September 16, 2018, 09:00:25 am »

They should also make the fake handoff illegal, donít want someone getting hurt that doesnít have the ball, and cutting back against the flow, that has to go, making the defense think you are going one way when youíre actually going another, guys blow knees out trying to cut back so thatís just cheap.

They should just point out who is getting the ball before every play and which direction he is going, mis direction is cowardly and dangerous, safety committe needs to do away with it. What snapping the ball on tow or three instead of one? Thatís pretty dirty if you ask me, taking advantage of a rule like that when it might cause a lineman to get hit when he is not moving, canít believe they allow that.

Iím sure there are some more that they need to take a look at.

Iwastherein1969

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #107 on: September 16, 2018, 09:07:00 am »

See this, it would draw a penalty and likely get a player kicked out of the game but it would stop that kind of tricky sh#!Ö. Bobby had players like this below  After watching that crap pulled on us yesterday I'll defend Marquel Wade until the 12th of Never

chiefhawg

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #108 on: September 16, 2018, 09:10:15 am »

They should also make the fake handoff illegal, donít want someone getting hurt that doesnít have the ball, and cutting back against the flow, that has to go, making the defense think you are going one way when youíre actually going another, guys blow knees out trying to cut back so thatís just cheap.

They should just point out who is getting the ball before every play and which direction he is going, mis direction is cowardly and dangerous, safety committe needs to do away with it. What snapping the ball on tow or three instead of one? Thatís pretty dirty if you ask me, taking advantage of a rule like that when it might cause a lineman to get hit when he is not moving, canít believe they allow that.

Iím sure there are some more that they need to take a look at.
Can't run the "Woody". Don't want some little guy hiding in the back field and getting the ball when no one knows he's there.

Iwastherein1969

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #109 on: September 16, 2018, 09:11:23 am »

It was a smart play and those of you calling for a cheap shot against the returner donít represent your University well. Suck it up, you got schooled. Now, hope your players and coaches wonít let it happen again.
Aggy, head on over to your 75 million dollar coach...and remember you still didn't beat Clemson....and we don't want to hear how Aggy is going to do this, Aggy is going to do that for we've heard that song at least 15 times and it turns out to be the same ol' verse every time


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Hoginsavga

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #110 on: September 16, 2018, 10:33:03 am »

It is a game....and he didn't fake the fair catch.

They told told the refs pregame that the play was in the playbook.

I don't see the problem other than it was embarrassing

You and I have a difference of opinion on the definition of fake. He raised his left hand twice to shoulder height before catching the ball. Once he caught the ball he bounced in place a couple of times with no immediate attempt to run. Those actions were both attempts to ďfakeĒ a fair catch and deceive the defenders. If it was not a fake fair catch he would have immediately started running once he caught the ball.
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Hogarusa

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #111 on: September 16, 2018, 10:42:55 am »

You and I have a difference of opinion on the definition of fake. He raised his left hand twice to shoulder height before catching the ball.

Evidence of replay shows this not to be true
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ZiaHog

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Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #112 on: September 16, 2018, 11:28:04 am »

Yes, I'm bringing up the fake fair catch again. Why? Because it shouldn't be allowed.

Before you start, because you're all very predictable: 1)this one play isn't why we lost 2) not playing through the whistle is not why this happened.

This play happened because North Texas exploited years of the refs training teams, coaches, and players to be really careful about laying a big hit.

I'll bring it all the way back to the Petrino era. I believe his name was Humphrey, but a player of ours absolutely demolished a player who had called a fair catch. On purpose? I don't think so. I think it's difficult for a player to tell when a fair catch is called.

Since that play in 2011 or 2012, we've seen targeting introduced, defenseless receivers can't be hit, blocking has to be very precise, quarterbacks can rarely be touched, etc. Tons of rules have been slowly added and ENFORCED to protect players in these dangerous plays.

Then we get this joke of a play. The player ABSOLUTELY made some sort of signal, no matter how small. The Arkansas players pulled up because of this training I've been talking about. They're sprinting down the field, getting off blocks, and then they see a guy pulling up like he called a fair catch. As I said before, they've been trained by the refs for several years now to err on the side of caution. But because North Texas told the refs about it first, they get to take advantage of the tendencies players have due to safety in the game, and they get to score.

It wasn't a fancy play. It wasn't a trick play. It was exploiting rules put into the game for player safety, and it worked because the players have been constantly shown that if you try to actually make a play like that, you'll get called for targeting. I presonally think it was horse s***.

incHOGnito

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #113 on: September 16, 2018, 11:35:09 am »

I agree with you on that one. You canít ask players to behave in one way during the heat of action, and then tell them when a player is clearly ďgiving himself upĒ to play through the whistle. 

In my opinion, had our players laid their returner out, we would have gotten a 15 yard penalty. 

Nafunu32

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #114 on: September 16, 2018, 11:35:44 am »

I completely agree. His little hand jerk motion was intended to look like a ďfair catch.Ē Iím all for trick plays, but in my opinion, this wasnít a misdirection type play. It was an exploit.

GaugeArkansas

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Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #115 on: September 16, 2018, 11:37:50 am »

Fake, exploit, trick, good scouting, unfair, high school, cheap.

Whatever you call it, it was worth 7 points.

Play through the whistle...
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my3boneheads

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #116 on: September 16, 2018, 11:38:11 am »

You jerk your hand like that to me means a fair catch. Itís a penalty if you touch him so the NCAA is going to have to rule on this.
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jjdlc

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Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #117 on: September 16, 2018, 11:38:25 am »

Have to agree, I've watched it several times, and Im not totally convinced it was even planned.  Part of me thinks even the returner thought he signaled fair catch.  I fully believe had we tackled him we would have gotten a penalty, and it wouldn't have been reviewable.
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JaxFlaRazorback

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #118 on: September 16, 2018, 11:51:54 am »

....I've watched it several times, and Im not totally convinced it was even planned....

Are you kidding?  It was planned to the left side of the field.  Guess you didn't notice the rest of their kicking team all ran to the left side of the field for blocking.

mykidsdad

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #119 on: September 16, 2018, 11:53:37 am »

Are you kidding?  It was planned to the left side of the field.  Guess you didn't notice the rest of their kicking team all ran to the left side of the field for blocking.
Have to agree, I've watched it several times, and Im not totally convinced it was even planned.  Part of me thinks even the returner thought he signaled fair catch.  I fully believe had we tackled him we would have gotten a penalty, and it wouldn't have been reviewable.

dude they practiced it for weeks. it was called by the coaches. there is a write up on it. coach putting his player's safety at risk, but otherwise good call.
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TeufelHog

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TeufelHog

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ďTHEĒ Punt Return . . .
« Reply #121 on: September 16, 2018, 12:02:36 pm »

GREAT PLAY which was ABSOLUTELY planned to the smallest detail.  Read the article and give credit where credit is due.  PLAY THROUGH THE WHISTLE!  Itís the first thing youíre taught when learning to play this this game.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2018/9/16/17864636/north-texas-fake-fair-catch-punt-return-td

jjdlc

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Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #122 on: September 16, 2018, 12:02:55 pm »

Are you kidding?  It was planned to the left side of the field.  Guess you didn't notice the rest of their kicking team all ran to the left side of the field for blocking.

Well, there is an article out now where the UNT staff talks about planning it, so I'm wrong, but them running ot the left side of the field is hardly a giveaway as that was their sideline and it looked like they were running off the field.  To their credit, they sold it perfectly.  They won't get away with it again, as all it will take is a defender running up and setting up ready to pounce if the returner so much as looks like he is going to take off.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: ďTHEĒ Punt Return . . .
« Reply #123 on: September 16, 2018, 12:06:31 pm »

As Iíve said in another post about this play, thatís something a coach sees in film and exploits.  I went back and watched our punt coverage the previous games and our guys pull off early on fair catches.  Kudos to North Texas and whoever scouted special teams on film. 
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oldhog63

Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #124 on: September 16, 2018, 12:28:15 pm »

Yes, I'm bringing up the fake fair catch again. Why? Because it shouldn't be allowed.

Before you start, because you're all very predictable: 1)this one play isn't why we lost 2) not playing through the whistle is not why this happened.

This play happened because North Texas exploited years of the refs training teams, coaches, and players to be really careful about laying a big hit.

I'll bring it all the way back to the Petrino era. I believe his name was Humphrey, but a player of ours absolutely demolished a player who had called a fair catch. On purpose? I don't think so. I think it's difficult for a player to tell when a fair catch is called.

Since that play in 2011 or 2012, we've seen targeting introduced, defenseless receivers can't be hit, blocking has to be very precise, quarterbacks can rarely be touched, etc. Tons of rules have been slowly added and ENFORCED to protect players in these dangerous plays.

Then we get this joke of a play. The player ABSOLUTELY made some sort of signal, no matter how small. The Arkansas players pulled up because of this training I've been talking about. They're sprinting down the field, getting off blocks, and then they see a guy pulling up like he called a fair catch. As I said before, they've been trained by the refs for several years now to err on the side of caution. But because North Texas told the refs about it first, they get to take advantage of the tendencies players have due to safety in the game, and they get to score.

It wasn't a fancy play. It wasn't a trick play. It was exploiting rules put into the game for player safety, and it worked because the players have been constantly shown that if you try to actually make a play like that, you'll get called for targeting. I presonally think it was horse s***.
Totally agree! My position exactly and it is going to result in some seriously injured returners because every coach is now going to undo the years of conditioning that you have described and start coaching players to blow these returners up unless a VERY OBVIOUS fair catch signal. How many times have you seen a returner wait until the very last second before making the signal and then a questionable signal at that. The cover teams will ignore those signals based on this play. The rules committee and officials have a mess on their hands if they donít address this immediately.

oldhog63

Re: ďTHEĒ Punt Return . . .
« Reply #125 on: September 16, 2018, 12:28:54 pm »

As Iíve said in another post about this play, thatís something a coach sees in film and exploits.  I went back and watched our punt coverage the previous games and our guys pull off early on fair catches.  Kudos to North Texas and whoever scouted special teams on film.
Dangerous precedent and will result in getting returners hurt.

hoggusamoungus

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #126 on: September 16, 2018, 12:32:58 pm »

Marquel Wade probably has some eligibility left.  He nearly killed that Vandy player who called for a fair catch in 2011.  I bet every team who played Arkansas after that game made it clear they were fair catching the ball.

I've been going to Hog games since 1967 and was at Vandy that day.  Most brutal hit I've ever seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9POA_QC0Yg
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Deerhunter

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #127 on: September 16, 2018, 12:34:57 pm »

Some are against it because we looked stupid.  If we had done it and it worked it would have been considered a brilliant call.

woodrow hog call

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #128 on: September 16, 2018, 12:37:49 pm »

The reason I donít watch hockey is because I donít understand it and donít want to learn it, some of you understand football the way I do hockey, you donít care to learn it either.
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oldhog63

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #129 on: September 16, 2018, 12:40:50 pm »

Some are against it because we looked stupid.  If we had done it and it worked it would have been considered a brilliant call.
I would have been very disappointed in our coaches if we had to resort to that type of play to be successful.

LZH

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2018, 12:42:39 pm »

The announcers seemed to think he was coached to do that at some point. I am not so sure. I just think he didn't hear a whistle and goofed around for a second then took off, which was pretty sharp thinking if you ask me. Didn't lose the game by any means, but a heady play by a good football player IMO.
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chiefhawg

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #131 on: September 16, 2018, 01:23:20 pm »

Dangerous precedent and will result in getting returners hurt.
If players stay in their lanes and play to the whistle there is no problem.  That is taught from Pee Wee football up to including the Pros.

kodiakisland

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #132 on: September 16, 2018, 01:56:54 pm »

How about we outlaw play action pass.  It's not fair to fake a handoff when it's actually a pass.  Anything that helps us not look too stupid, right?

Rocket23

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #133 on: September 16, 2018, 02:07:14 pm »

UNT practiced that play.  Their entire team set up a wall down the left side.  It was a very good trickeration play. His hands barely moved, nowhere near an ďinvalid fair catch signal.Ē  But I do agree it is bush league, and probably should not be allowed for safety reasons.  But that about sums up preparedness of our football team.  .
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twistitup

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #134 on: September 16, 2018, 02:52:50 pm »

I would have been very disappointed in our coaches if we had to resort to that type of play to be successful.

lol

I would love it...if we used to get a *** W
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LZH

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #135 on: September 16, 2018, 02:55:57 pm »

I read the article, and indeed they had planned on doing this at one time or another this season. I have to hand it to them, that was a good call at a good time.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #136 on: September 16, 2018, 02:58:12 pm »

The coach didn't call that. The kid did it and the coverage team had their heads in their Butts. It was a boneheaded play on the coverage team and not being focused. You play until you hear the whistle.
And yes it pisses me off too but nothing illegal about it. Their kid played heads up and ours didn't.

Thatís on Morris and his staff.....   they all seem to think that coaching at Arkansas is only a paid vacation....  this is beyond sick....
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NTTHOR

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Re: Exploiting Player Safety
« Reply #137 on: September 16, 2018, 03:58:28 pm »

I completely agree. His little hand jerk motion was intended to look like a ďfair catch.Ē Iím all for trick plays, but in my opinion, this wasnít a misdirection type play. It was an exploit.

what about when returners move their hands to get players away from the ball?  is this different?  yes, there was hand waving and movement, but below the shoulder so it's legal.  if any hand movement is deemed illegal, then a returner can not move their hands to get their players escaping from possibly being hit from a bouncing ball.  where is the line drawn? 
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #138 on: September 16, 2018, 04:01:14 pm »

That play is going to get someone's head taken off.
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Ben

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #139 on: September 16, 2018, 04:14:34 pm »

Hate to be a bad sport, but the next time he called a fair catch someone should have obliterated him
Lol Vandy hit all over
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Ben

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #140 on: September 16, 2018, 04:16:04 pm »

To hell with the fake fair catch signal. Anyone with Football IQ knows to play til the whistle.

Wahls

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Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #141 on: September 16, 2018, 04:53:20 pm »

He never raised his hand

He waived it twice across his chest and neck area.

From the perspective of the gunner, you don't know what it looked like to them, because they're on opposite sides of the field and a completely different elevation than the TV cameras.

There's a reason why he waived like that and why they setup a wall - they intentionally created a play that created a motion that looked like a fair catch to the players on the field, the commentators, and several people on here, to manipulate a rule to help player safety.

To hell with the fake fair catch signal. Anyone with Football IQ knows to play til the whistle.

Listen for the whistle the next time a guy calls a fair catch. The whistle is WELL after the ball is secured and everyone stops. If you play until the whistle on a fair catch, you'll get ejected. They're manipulating the rule.
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Dr. Leonard Ford

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #142 on: September 16, 2018, 04:55:37 pm »

The play is one of the featured videos on WorldStar Hiphop.  If you have never been to that site then you are in for a treat!
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twistitup

Re: the not fair catch
« Reply #143 on: September 16, 2018, 04:57:31 pm »

He waived it twice across his chest and neck area.



Not a fair catch signal, we both know that.

...and yes, you can tell a fair catch signal from a hand waived around the waist/ chest area

We should of cleaned his clock, we didn't, he scored and we are embarrassed now.


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PORKULATOR

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The fake faircatch
« Reply #144 on: September 16, 2018, 06:00:40 pm »

I for one was appalled at North Texas for using a trick play devised around a player safety issue. It really destroys The credibility of player safety and protecting players on special teams plays.
I literally went from not caring one bit about their coach to thinking he's a disgusting individual for using such a tactic.
I'm not whining about the officials being tipped off and knowing it was a legal play I just find the whole thing disgusting in the spirit of the game. I would be appalled if coach Chad Morris called that play.

BroyledNutts

Re: The fake faircatch
« Reply #145 on: September 16, 2018, 06:05:34 pm »

I can almost guarantee you if one of our cover guys had noticed there was no signal and tackled him, there would have been a flag thrown and targeting called.
I can also say with assurance that other teams on their schedule will see that play and take note - and a deep receiver is going to get severely injured for a one time trick play.
Honestly, had I been coaching yesterday, it would've happened yesterday ... and a third string special teams member would be suspended for a game.

Player safety rules are in place for a reason and should be held sacrosanct ... not toyed with and taken advantage of ... I hope this doesn't end in a severe injury for one of their players.

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Re: The fake faircatch
« Reply #146 on: September 16, 2018, 06:59:13 pm »

so ya'll are appalled at the fact that north texas played within the rules, faked you out, scored, and then continued to score???

i'm not a gonna gloat at the win,(god knows north texas has very damn few) but damn, yall are a bunch of whiney fans.  nothing that was done saturday was against the rules.  your players had a chance to wrap up brewer...stand there...hands on him...no worries, yet they didn't.  they weren't gonna blast him because they were already around him to contain him.  your players were there before he caught it...they act apporpriately, hold him...touch him...be there, not walk away, and brewer doesn't score...that didn't happen...blame your players or coach...not north texas



twistitup

Re: The fake faircatch
« Reply #147 on: September 16, 2018, 07:01:48 pm »

I for one was appalled

 spirit of the game. I would be appalled if coach Chad Morris called that play.

lol

just win
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PORKULATOR

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Re: The fake faircatch
« Reply #148 on: September 16, 2018, 07:03:07 pm »

so ya'll are appalled at the fact that north texas played within the rules, faked you out, scored, and then continued to score???

i'm not a gonna gloat at the win,(god knows north texas has very damn few) but damn, yall are a bunch of whiney fans.  nothing that was done saturday was against the rules.  your players had a chance to wrap up brewer...stand there...hands on him...no worries, yet they didn't.  they weren't gonna blast him because they were already around him to contain him.  your players were there before he caught it...they act apporpriately, hold him...touch him...be there, not walk away, and brewer doesn't score...that didn't happen...blame your players or coach...not north texas




Its a Player safety issue that the real fake was applied. You're as disgusting as the coach who implemented this.  You beat us everywhere else in the game fair and square, congratulations, but that was BS
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The fake faircatch
« Reply #149 on: September 16, 2018, 07:03:19 pm »

How often does this play happen?

Iím 61 and have never seen it before. But I have read where it has been done before. It happens when the coach doesnt have the players focused.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 07:15:07 pm by Inhogswetrust »
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KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas