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Author Topic: I think we are going to be good!  (Read 7047 times)

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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2018, 10:24:45 am »

Of which, on average, they have retained less of. Therefore, ours should be more mature, physically, and able to compete if coached appropriately. 

We obviously home CCM and staff coach at a high level.

Where is your evidence of this?

You're saying that, on average, our SEC West opponents have retained fewer players than we have? Where can I find that information?
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factchecker

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2018, 10:30:06 am »

You're saying that, on average, our SEC West opponents have retained fewer players than we have? Where can I find that information?
I don't know where to even look for that stat.  You can compare overall returning production on the roster but that doesn't necessarily show which teams have the fewest transfers/dismissals/early draft entries.

Overall returning production via Phil Steele:

https://philsteele.com/2018/07/08/complete-breakdown-of-every-cfb-teams-returning-starters/

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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2018, 10:30:39 am »

Based on Arkansas standards, indeed we do.  People are raving about this class but there have been two very similar classes as far as talent goes, in the last three years.  I am not sure why many are so keen on downplaying our current talent level


There is no way to know this. I'm not even talking about the 2019 class. Doesn't impact us this year.

What have you seen that makes you think we have a ton of talent. Arkansas for the most part will always recruit in the 20 to 30 range. Who are the play makers that have shown consistency? This team has tons of question marks, the level of talent is unknown.


The argument you guys are clinging to is we just sucked because of Bielema. That is true to a degree but the roster needs to improve and develop before anyone can say there is tons of talent there


You can say you hope there is,  but there is no way to know this in the current moment.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2018, 10:32:06 am »

I don't know where to even look for that stat.  You can compare overall returning production on the roster but that doesn't necessarily show which teams have the fewest transfers/dismissals/early draft entries.

Overall returning production via Phil Steele:

https://philsteele.com/2018/07/08/complete-breakdown-of-every-cfb-teams-returning-starters/



I don't either, ha. Which is why I'd love to see why he thinks that/where he gets that info.

But thanks, that's a good graphic.

Similarly, I've been going off this site, but it was posted January 31 of this year and I'm sure there have been some changes since then, but for the most part probably pretty accurate: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/1/31/16950222/2018-ncaa-football-returning-starters-experience

Pork Twain

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2018, 10:33:06 am »


There is no way to know this. I'm not even talking about the 2019 class. Doesn't impact us this year.

What have you seen that makes you think we have a ton of talent. Arkansas for the most part will always recruit in the 20 to 30 range. Who are the play makers that have shown consistency? This team has tons of question marks, the level of talent is unknown.


The argument you guys are clinging to is we just sucked because of Bielema. That is true to a degree but the roster needs to improve and develop before anyone can say there is tons of talent there


You can say you hope there is,  but there is no way to know this in the current moment.
Well I have attached recruiting data that shows how our classes have looked on signing day.  If that is not enough, then I guess you are right.  You can complain about x, y, and z but based on the numbers, what I have said is true.
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GuvHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2018, 10:36:09 am »


Isn't Jackson supposed to miss at least 6 games?

That's the ball park figure but there is a possibility that he might return for the A&M game depending on how his recuperation goes.
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2018, 10:38:04 am »

Well I have attached recruiting data that shows how our classes have looked on signing day.  If that is not enough, then I guess you are right.


Recruiting data means jack for the most part. As I have said, Arkansas will consistently recruit in the 20 to 30 range. If your only argument is recruiting stars, I don't know what to tell you.

So tell me again.  Who exactly falls into this tons of talent you speak of. We are full of average SEC talent at best.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2018, 10:40:27 am »

Of which, on average, they have retained less of.  Therefore, ours should be more mature, physically, and able to compete if coached appropriately. 

We obviously home CCM and staff coach at a high level.

I tend to try to stick to verifiable information
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Pork Twain

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2018, 10:42:50 am »


Recruiting data means jack for the most part. As I have said, Arkansas will consistently recruit in the 20 to 30 range. If your only argument is recruiting stars, I don't know what to tell you.

So tell me again.  Who exactly falls into this tons of talent you speak of. We are full of average SEC talent at best.
As much or more talent than we have had at any time in the last 20 years qualifies for me.  If not for you, that is a you problem.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2018, 10:45:18 am »

I don't know where to even look for that stat.  You can compare overall returning production on the roster but that doesn't necessarily show which teams have the fewest transfers/dismissals/early draft entries.

Overall returning production via Phil Steele:

https://philsteele.com/2018/07/08/complete-breakdown-of-every-cfb-teams-returning-starters/



A 9-4 team from a year ago returns as much as us, including their QB, but folks think we're gonna beat em on the road?
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2018, 10:46:11 am »

As much or more talent than we have had at any time in the last 20 years qualifies for me.  If not for you, that is a you problem.

Relative to our competition we don't have as much or more talent in the last 20 years
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2018, 10:47:29 am »

Based on recruiting rankings, no cherry picking here, we have as much talent now, as we have ever had.  Will we ever compete with LSU and Bama for top classes?  No, but in terms of talent we have seen on campus over the last 25 years, what we have now, stacks up well. I am more than a little surprised at how many are so dead set against this.  Also why I have avoided MMQB


Really. Well against teams that had Cedric Cobbs, Matt Jones, Marcus Monk, Darren McFadden, Felix Jones, Payton Hillis, DJ Williams,  Ryan Mallett, Tyler Wilson, Joe Adams, Greg Childs, Jarious Wright, Knile Davis, Hunter Henry, Johnathan Williams, Alex Collins


Those are just the offensive players I can think of. You think there is anyone on this team close to any of them? Its possible but we haven't seen it yet.

GuvHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2018, 10:49:03 am »

A 9-4 team from a year ago returns as much as us, including their QB, but folks think we're gonna beat em on the road?

If you are talking about Mississippi State, I have that game in the toss up column and have had it there for some time.
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2018, 10:49:47 am »

As much or more talent than we have had at any time in the last 20 years qualifies for me.  If not for you, that is a you problem.

The most talent we have had in 20 years? not even close.
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Dirty

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2018, 10:51:20 am »

Speaking of past coaches...who do you cheer for?  Alabama or Louisville?
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2018, 10:51:40 am »

If you are talking about Mississippi State, I have that game in the toss up column and have had it there for some time.

Was talking about Vandy, clearly
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hogsanity

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2018, 10:53:14 am »

Funny how people want to point to 3 10+ win season in 26 years as a historical marker that it can happen, yet want to ignore the other 23 years by saying you can't predict this season based on history.

Pork Twain

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2018, 10:54:17 am »

The most talent we have had in 20 years. not even close.
According to the recruiting ranks, you are right it is not even close when comparing the this class and the last three to any other 4 year period.  I mean in order for you to be right, you have to make a conscious choice to ignore data.  Congrats, you are right, we will suck.
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factchecker

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2018, 10:56:10 am »

A 9-4 team from a year ago returns as much as us, including their QB, but folks think we're gonna beat em on the road?
Colorado State is returning the least amount of players in all of college football and some fans are picking them to beat us..... where is the logic there?

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factchecker

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2018, 10:57:04 am »

Funny how people want to point to 3 10+ win season in 26 years as a historical marker that it can happen, yet want to ignore the other 23 years by saying you can't predict this season based on history.
Where is anybody predicting a 10 win season?

RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2018, 10:57:48 am »

According to the recruiting ranks, you are right it is not even close when comparing the this class and the last three to any other 4 year period.  I mean in order for you to be right, you have to make a conscious choice to ignore data.  Congrats, you are right, we will suck.

To be fair though, you're looking at us in a vacuum. You aren't taking into account what our competition is doing, too.
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2018, 10:58:06 am »

According to the recruiting ranks, you are right it is not even close when comparing the this class and the last three to any other 4 year period.  I mean in order for you to be right, you have to make a conscious choice to ignore data.  Congrats, you are right, we will suck.


Lol. Recruiting Rankings that are projections. Subjective Data.


You can't seriously believe we have more talent now than we have ever had.

Wow.


List the players that would even start on the 2006 team. 2010, 2011, 2014, or 2015.


Your grasping on straws on subjective material.



I've also never said we will suck for the record.

GuvHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2018, 10:59:51 am »

NM
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2018, 11:00:43 am »

Colorado State is returning the least amount of players in all of college football and some fans are picking them to beat us..... where is the logic there?



Don't think they will, but road game halfway across the country, early in the season, new coach.
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little pigee

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2018, 11:03:24 am »

Okay.

Last 60 years: 10 first year head coaches

Record of those coaches: 55-56

Average wins per season for those coaches: 5.5
I was referring to Nutt and Holtz as my instances.  Just drinking the kool-aid.  Oh, I apologize if my calling you a naysayer was offensive.  I did not mean to offend.  I have been chastised for "flaming" on you, but it wasn't meant that way.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2018, 11:04:37 am »

I was referring to Nutt and Holtz as my instances.  Just drinking the kool-aid.  Oh, I apologize if my calling you a naysayer was offensive.  I did not mean to offend.  I have been chastised for "flaming" on you, but it wasn't meant that way.

Hah, wasn't offended. Just wanted a little more explanation was all.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2018, 11:05:34 am »

Where is anybody predicting a 10 win season?

I was referring to Nutt and Holtz as my instances.  Just drinking the kool-aid.  Oh, I apologize if my calling you a naysayer was offensive.  I did not mean to offend.  I have been chastised for "flaming" on you, but it wasn't meant that way.

Well apparently the basis of thinking that we will be good is based on an 11 and 9 win season
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2018, 11:06:39 am »

I'm all for looking at areas to hope show signs we can win 6+  but I'm also not going to lie to myself and ignore all the challenges this team will face this year to get to 6.

factchecker

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2018, 11:09:33 am »

Well apparently the basis of thinking that we will be good is based on an 11 and 9 win season
OR it was simply evidence of what 2 coaches did in the past and how it's not impossible to see a turn around with new coaching.  Most Razorback fans would be happy with a 6-6 and season this year and almost everybody would consider an 8 win season good if not great.

toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2018, 11:19:08 am »

OR it was simply evidence of what 2 coaches did in the past and how it's not impossible to see a turn around with new coaching.  Most Razorback fans would be happy with a 6-6 and season this year and almost everybody would consider an 8 win season good if not great.

You don't have to search much to find a plethora of 8-4 predictions when we've only gone 8 wins or better 11/26 times in the SEC. 5-7 could be defined as a "good" season based on how they play. I doubt the guy citing Holtz and Nutt is envisioning 6-6 as a good team. I can't tell how he thinks, and not sure I'd want to.
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little pigee

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2018, 11:42:51 am »

Well apparently the basis of thinking that we will be good is based on an 11 and 9 win season
No, those would be great seasons.
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hogsanity

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2018, 11:46:30 am »

Where is anybody predicting a 10 win season?

Where did I say anyone was predicting that?   What they are doing is saying that because in 26 seasons in the SEC there have been 3 10+ win years, then somehow they take that to hold up their " I think we will be good this year. " prediction.
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2018, 11:57:32 am »

No, those would be great seasons.

Might help if you specified what you meant instead of making sweeping generalizations!
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AugustaHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2018, 12:43:27 pm »

Those graphs are great and all, but let's be real here.  Recruiting rankings go out the window once the kids get on campus.  We've seen 5*s play like 2*s and vice versa.  I get that more often than not a highly ranked kid is going to be impactful.  We all hope for those high rankings, if for nothing more than the good pub. 
For instance, from the '15 class these are the biggest prospects: 
-Froholdt-major impact
-O'Grady-minimal impact, but this could be his year
-Gragg-gone
-J. Bell-no impact
-J. Merrick-no impact
-Storey-unimpressive so far, may be impactful this year
-Z. Rogers-gone
-Ledbetter-gone as well as D. Reed
-RW3-gone

Of the top 9 guys from that class we have one who has been a regular contributor to this point, 4 who are gone, and we are still hoping, in the others' RS Jr years, that we get some impact from them.  Of that class, Greenlaw and Pulley along with Froholdt are the only guys who are proven commodities.  Hopefully, Colton Jackson can prove this year that he belongs in that category as well.  This class does not scream that it's loaded with talent.  '16 is a little better and '17 is starting to show some promise.  Those two classes have the chance to help turn things around, but I would say that nothing about those 3 core classes screams that we are more talented than at any point in the previous 20 years.

little pigee

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2018, 02:02:46 pm »

Might help if you specified what you meant instead of making sweeping generalizations!
Or better yet, just ask before assuming.  7 wins will be a good year for us. 
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Pork Twain

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2018, 11:58:56 pm »


Lol. Recruiting Rankings that are projections. Subjective Data.


You can't seriously believe we have more talent now than we have ever had.

Wow.


List the players that would even start on the 2006 team. 2010, 2011, 2014, or 2015.


Your grasping on straws on subjective material.



I've also never said we will suck for the record.
You're... and based on the recruiting rankings, which are more right than wrong, tis true.  Obviously you do not grasp overall talent vs talent at certain positions.  Saying recruiting rankings don't matter is the same thing small guys say about size not mattering.
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InHognito

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2018, 05:41:34 am »

I disagree with your assertion that the Offensive line is in shambles. I don't believe that's the case. Are their depth issues and problems caused by injuries? Yes. Of the 5 projected to start, only one is injured and will miss a few games. Losing Malone hurts the depth but he was not going to be a starter.

So what you're saying is we have 4 good guys.....okay. How are those lone 4 guys going to compete season-long through the SEC West?

The answer is they cant. Not by themselves. Even the coaching staff is plugging and playing players all over the line to try and find something that works.

So, essentially, we have an OL in shambles that CCM and company must try to find a way to salvage
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rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2018, 06:02:31 am »

You're... and based on the recruiting rankings, which are more right than wrong, tis true.  Obviously you do not grasp overall talent vs talent at certain positions.  Saying recruiting rankings don't matter is the same thing small guys say about size not mattering.


Obviously a typo.


You keep beating that drum man if it makes you feel better.


The funny thing is, you kind of better hope the bolded part is true if you're looking for the Razorbacks to have any chance of being good. Also very strange analogy. Your boss must be short. Unless you're trying to refer to dicks. Which would be even weirder and seem like maybe you have a complex. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 07:26:38 am by rhames »
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toddfromdesarc

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2018, 06:13:35 am »

You're... and based on the recruiting rankings, which are more right than wrong, tis true.  Obviously you do not grasp overall talent vs talent at certain positions.  Saying recruiting rankings don't matter is the same thing small guys say about size not mattering.

Based on the recruiting rankings the majority of our competition has more talent than us. Keep ignoring that; not sure why.
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GuvHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2018, 07:54:45 am »

So what you're saying is we have 4 good guys.....okay. How are those lone 4 guys going to compete season-long through the SEC West?

The answer is they cant. Not by themselves. Even the coaching staff is plugging and playing players all over the line to try and find something that works.

So, essentially, we have an OL in shambles that CCM and company must try to find a way to salvage

Read Mike Irwin's article about the first day of full pads practice above. The D Linemen talk about how physical the O Line is and how Fry's cross training is paying off. The O Line isn't in shambles.
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Superhog1959

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2018, 08:01:50 am »

Just watching and listening, I think 5 wins is realistic. Any more would be a good sign concerning talent, depth and coaching. The offensive line is the big Q for me. I am tired of going into a season with high hopes just to have them bashed every weekend.

BBBigChop

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2018, 08:03:51 am »

Just gimme 6 wins so we can get the extra 3 weeks of practice in Dec, then get ready to rock n roll in 2019.

Anything above that will be gravy.  #ILikeGravy

LRRandy

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2018, 08:25:08 am »

Read Mike Irwin's article about the first day of full pads practice above. The D Linemen talk about how physical the O Line is and how Fry's cross training is paying off. The O Line isn't in shambles.
preseason talk is the same every season. You can believe the oline isn't in shambles when they come out and produce against a team with a pulse. All the hyperbole is fun. Unless the truth is different. Razorback nation has been walked down this path before.
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Lud42

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2018, 09:04:21 am »

If you are going by stars then there is some talent on this squad. RB, DL, and DB look to be particularly solid. Heck, at QB we are likely to have two 4* back ups. WR and LB look really thin, but I actually think we are better off at those two positions than the recruiting rankings would have predicted. Hopefully, Oline can live up to their potential this year (I know Hjalte was a d lineman). Seems like that group had more misses and attrition than any other position over the last few years (not to mention poor coaching).

QB:
Ty Storey 4*
Connor Noland 4*

RB:
Chase Hayden 4*
TJ Hammonds 4*
Devwah Whaley 4*

WR:

TE:
Jeremy Patton 4*
CJ O'Grady 4*

OL:
Hjalte Froholdt 4*
Jalen Merrick 4*
Brian Wallace 4*

DL:
Briston Guidry 4*
Sosa Agim 4*/ 5*
Jamario Bell 4*
Austin Capps 4*

LB:
Bumper Pool 4*

DB:
LaDarius Bishop 4*
Montaric Brown 4*
Chevin Calloway 4*

Not saying any of this amounts to a hill of beans, but it's interesting to look at.

On paper.

Can't wait for the games to start!

Grag T

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2018, 09:20:39 am »


Obviously a typo.


You keep beating that drum man if it makes you feel better.


The funny thing is, you kind of better hope the bolded part is true if you're looking for the Razorbacks to have any chance of being good. Also very strange analogy. Your boss must be short. Unless you're trying to refer to dicks. Which would be even weirder and seem like maybe you have a complex. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You stop being mean and perverted; now I'm going to have to make up five imaginary female coworkers and pretend that I asked them what they think of your avatar.

(inside reference that yesterday's hogville readers shook their heads at)

liljo

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #95 on: August 09, 2018, 09:34:08 am »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good post above from Lud42.

Hopeful post. The cupboard is not bare. There IS talent on this team. We greatly lack depth. This team, with a good understanding of both offense and defense, could compete at a high level in several P5 conferences. It's just that we are in the SEC-W. Depth is everything.

Our program just always seems cursed with the injury bug. Every year it seems, we have "star players" that go down before the season even starts. Jonathan Williams was all set to have a great year but suffered a foot injury in 2015-preseason that cost him the season. Rawleigh Williams, the SEC's leading rusher the previous year, was injured AGAIN in the spring of 2017 and it ended his career.


The truth is, all SEC teams go through this. The difference is that the top programs like Alabama have so much quality depth behind their starters that they don't seem to even feel a blip. They have 4/5* athletes three-deep EVERY year. I realize everyone here knows everything I've stated, but it is going to take several recruiting cycles to turn this program around.


I think we should take pride in developing a true SEC-quality roster that can take the field every Saturday with an honest chance to win. When we have a team that nobody circles as a sure-win, Arkansas fans should be happy. But I've seen us at that level before, and people turn against coaches after a disappointing loss--and the ship sinks. When we are 3-8, a 10-2 record sounds SO GOOD! But when we're 10-1, and lose that 12th game, fans howl for the coach's head. The odds of Arkansas EVER consistently fielding 10-2, 11-1, etc. teams, as long as we are in the SEC, are almost zilch. But I CAN see us getting to the level where we definitely have a chance to win every week, even against Alabama, and where when Arkansas reaches a bowl game, they can compete against whomever their opponent may be and represent the conference proudly.

rhames

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #96 on: August 09, 2018, 09:49:10 am »

You stop being mean and perverted; now I'm going to have to make up five imaginary female coworkers and pretend that I asked them what they think of your avatar.

(inside reference that yesterday's hogville readers shook their heads at)


I wanted to make said post my quote but it is too long



THATS WHAT SHE SAID.
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wildturkey8

Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2018, 10:26:08 am »

All 4 stars are not created equal.  Who are the playmakers on this team?
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GuvHog

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2018, 10:48:45 am »

preseason talk is the same every season. You can believe the oline isn't in shambles when they come out and produce against a team with a pulse. All the hyperbole is fun. Unless the truth is different. Razorback nation has been walked down this path before.

Not with the current coaching staff.
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Lud42

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Re: I think we are going to be good!
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2018, 11:00:27 am »

All 4 stars are not created equal.  Who are the playmakers on this team?

I agree with this. Offensively I think Cornelius, Nance, Pettway, Woods, etc. will be fine and I think we are as good at RB and TE as just about anyone. The questions will be can we find an effective distributer of the ball at qb and can we--through scheme and/or improved play--give him long enough to do the job.

The defense is actually loaded with guys capable of making plays. We'll see if they can reach their potential in a more attacking style defense rather than playing back on their heels waiting for the play to come to them. (I know we heard we were going to attack more the last several years and it never really materialized, but that is what Chavis has done everywhere he has been, so I'm confident we will at least be more aggressive this season.)
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