Hogville Info
• 9,932,531 Posts
• 399,401 Topics
• 22,897 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday

Poll

Who do you think will start the MOST games at QB this year?

Kelley
Storey
Noland

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: QB Battle  (Read 17356 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PharmacistHog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 689
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,016
  • Gameday Goon
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2018, 02:26:11 pm »

But I say for us to be the most effective offense we need all the bullets we can get and a running QB is one more bullet.  We just do not have an offensive fire power to win those 50/50 games with out a running QB.  A really effective dual threat QB could be the difference between 5 or 8 wins.  Even if the QB can only averages over 3 yards a carry.    Just keep us our of negative plays and move the chains.

Kelley can simply fall forward and average a few yards a carry. 
Logged

hogcards

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 264
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,392
  • The Glimmer Twins
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2018, 02:46:02 pm »

I can't remember where I saw these stats, but Morris' offenses have not been built around a running QB, except for when he has a QB that can do it effectively.  We can argue whether or not CK can be an effective runner, but I don't think we can assume that our QBs will be actually be asked to run all that much.  Durability may be a concern solely because of our inefficiency at OL. Whoever is back there is going to take hits if they don't get the ball out quickly

This is why I'm hoping we have a dual QB situation.  I don't like C.K's passing, but I think defenses will have to respect his ability to run a little on short down conversions. I think Noland has the best arm of the bunch.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

RebelW

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 21
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 678
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2018, 04:01:03 pm »

In the spring game Ty and Cole were dead even in stats but Cole through some good balls deep that should have been caught though
Logged

twistitup

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2018, 04:01:09 pm »

This is why I'm hoping we have a dual QB situation.  I don't like C.K's passing, but I think defenses will have to respect his ability to run a little on short down conversions. I think Noland has the best arm of the bunch.

Dual threat qb, yes

Dual qb situation, no
Logged

UA1985

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2018, 04:05:33 pm »

Hyatt has as good a chance as any of the QBs. (Cole will likely start game 1, but if he falters, Hyatt could get a shot.)
Logged

Hawgphat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 120
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2018, 04:28:13 pm »

I don't have a preconceived "favorite" QB prospect.  I TRULY want the best, most overall proficient achiever to earn the starting QB nod.
Logged

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 269
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 49,658
  • Proud Hog Supporter!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2018, 05:16:07 pm »

This is why I'm hoping we have a dual QB situation.  I don't like C.K's passing, but I think defenses will have to respect his ability to run a little on short down conversions. I think Noland has the best arm of the bunch.

Kelley has the strongest arm of all of the QBs. At the Manning camp he threw a 70 yard bomb and hit the receiver in stride at the 10 yard line.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 06:51:22 am by GuvHog »
Logged

PharmacistHog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 689
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,016
  • Gameday Goon
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2018, 05:21:23 pm »

Hyatt has as good a chance as any of the QBs. (Cole will likely start game 1, but if he falters, Hyatt could get a shot.)

Just doesn't sound like he'll be the one from listening to Coach Morris, but there's always a chance I suppose. 
Logged

PigPusher

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 41
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 8,295
  • Just another day as a Hog!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2018, 06:28:14 pm »

It the new 4 game red shirt rule it will be much easier for the coach to explore if he feels the need.
Logged

RyanMallettsEgo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 963
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,363
  • Take it easy, I'm pre-law.
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2018, 10:45:54 pm »

It the new 4 game red shirt rule it will be much easier for the coach to explore if he feels the need.

Nothin' wrong with explorin' if you feel the need.

It's 2014, after all.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2018, 11:14:00 pm »

Kelley can simply fall forward and average a few yards a carry. 
Yes, but he can also get knocked on his butt and lose the same yardage.    I was sure hoping Kelley would get his weight down to about 245 to increase his agility and speed. 
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2018, 11:21:16 pm »

Kelley has the strongest arm of all of the QBs. At the Manning camp he threw a 70 bomb and hit the receiver in stride at the 10 yard line.

To allow a WR to receive a pass 70 yards down the field will demand our OL to block for 5+ seconds.  Good luck on that.   I am more interested in seeing who can throw an accurate and on time 5-25 yard pass.
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 307
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,511
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2018, 12:03:02 am »

Poise is huge at QB, as is the team trusting you to lead.  Cole Kelly should have a large lead in those two categories.  He had swagger last year, seemed to have the respect of his teammates, and he's tough.  He's not scared to take a hit, and when defenses aren't expecting him to run, I think he'll be very effective because of his size and strength.  He won't be nearly as dynamic as Cam Newton, but I could see him finding a little crease and the next thing you know...he's gained 5 yard and drug a player a yard or two in the process similar to how Cam used to do to keep defenses honest. 

Cole Kelly has advantages over the others based on his size alone.  Ability to see over the line, can more or less fall forward for 3 yards, biggest arm (can't speak for Noland on that...haven't seen them throw side by side), and will be able to stay upright when guys try to grab his jersey in the pocket...ala Ben Roethlisberger.

Experience.  It may not be dramatic, but he has game time experience in the SEC.   

Now...NONE of that matters if he can't learn the playbook, make accurate throws, and make good decisions.  But...going into the season, he should have a solid lead on the pack, until he shows he can't do those three things effectively.  Then...it's going to be the player who can. 
Logged

PigPusher

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 41
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 8,295
  • Just another day as a Hog!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2018, 12:23:55 am »

Poise is huge at QB, as is the team trusting you to lead.  Cole Kelly should have a large lead in those two categories.  He had swagger last year, seemed to have the respect of his teammates, and he's tough.  He's not scared to take a hit, and when defenses aren't expecting him to run, I think he'll be very effective because of his size and strength.  He won't be nearly as dynamic as Cam Newton, but I could see him finding a little crease and the next thing you know...he's gained 5 yard and drug a player a yard or two in the process similar to how Cam used to do to keep defenses honest. 

Cole Kelly has advantages over the others based on his size alone.  Ability to see over the line, can more or less fall forward for 3 yards, biggest arm (can't speak for Noland on that...haven't seen them throw side by side), and will be able to stay upright when guys try to grab his jersey in the pocket...ala Ben Roethlisberger.

Experience.  It may not be dramatic, but he has game time experience in the SEC.   

Now...NONE of that matters if he can't learn the playbook, make accurate throws, and make good decisions.  But...going into the season, he should have a solid lead on the pack, until he shows he can't do those three things effectively.  Then...it's going to be the player who can. 


And too, Cole did spent a part of the summer in the company of two of the best passing quarterbacks in recent history. Perhaps some things rubbed off. Would be very nice if it did as Cole did a decent job even as it was. We'll see for sure.
Logged

Supermark101

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 24
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,108
  • We all need a little Love
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2018, 01:45:57 am »

If we have that much instability at QB, we will struggle to win 4 games.

If the defense improves, we'll win the 4 non conference no matter who the QB happens to be.
Logged

MissippHog

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2018, 02:39:16 am »

This is why I'm hoping we have a dual QB situation.  I don't like C.K's passing, but I think defenses will have to respect his ability to run a little on short down conversions. I think Noland has the best arm of the bunch.
Yogi Berra said it best, "If you have two quarterbacks, you actually have none."  ;)  Two quarterback systems rarely work, which is why we rarely see them.  I believe CK will be our QB opening day and every game following barring injury. 
Logged

LZH

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 359
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 21,918
  • Tight but Loose
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2018, 05:13:14 am »

To allow a WR to receive a pass 70 yards down the field will demand our OL to block for 5+ seconds.  Good luck on that.

Not really. With no play action, a five step drop takes little more than two seconds. On a long go route the ball is gonna be out of the QB's hand and in the air for at least that long. A big-armed QB just needs to set his feet while locating the safety, then let it rip.

This play, out of the shotgun, allows the QB to keep his eyes downfield and to take less steps......even better.
Logged

gawntrail

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 41
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,080
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2018, 06:14:02 am »

To allow a WR to receive a pass 70 yards down the field will demand our OL to block for 5+ seconds.  Good luck on that.   I am more interested in seeing who can throw an accurate and on time 5-25 yard pass.

It’s all about touch in the screen and short game.
Logged

1highhog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 604
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,972
  • Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat.
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2018, 06:41:25 am »

Our best running QB is Daulton Hyatt. CCM mentioned today he is "very athletic". I'm keeping an eye on him.

I'm wondering why Hyatt is not being mentioned then even in most fans top 3 QB's?  It's Cole, Storey, and Conner.  Is Hyatt a red shirt freshmen now or sophomore?   
Logged

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 269
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 49,658
  • Proud Hog Supporter!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2018, 06:59:25 am »

It’s all about touch in the screen and short game.

If a QB is not capable of stretching the field, screen and short passes will not work. A QB must have a strong arm to force the DBs to respect his ability to throw the deep ball, that will open up more opportunities for the screens, short passes, and the running game.
Logged

jkstock04

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2018, 07:11:35 am »

To the OP, I would bet $$$ it's not Kelley by default like many assume. Different coaches and different scheme. I see last year's "experience" as more of a negative detriment than anything else.

If the O-line is as terrible as it was last year it probably won't matter much except for injury. Kelley obviously will be the most durable to taking hits vs the smaller less developed QBs we have/will have. I knew last year before the season even started, zero chance Austin Allen would make it through the entire season as starter.
Logged

Superhog1959

  • Bench Warmer
  • ***
  • Total likes: 54
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2018, 07:11:53 am »

If the OL doesn't improve from last year, it wont matter who the QB is.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2018, 08:47:38 am »

If a QB is not capable of stretching the field, screen and short passes will not work. A QB must have a strong arm to force the DBs to respect his ability to throw the deep ball, that will open up more opportunities for the screens, short passes, and the running game.

I agree.  Unfortunately some strong armed QBs force a lot of passes because of their confidence in their strong arm so a winning QB is to make the BEST play and that takes making very fast reads and do the best thing VERY QUICKLY under a lot of duress. 

It is tough to be a  winning QB in the SEC.  I hope someone can take the bull by the horns.
Logged

gawntrail

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 41
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,080
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2018, 10:29:34 am »

If a QB is not capable of stretching the field, screen and short passes will not work. A QB must have a strong arm to force the DBs to respect his ability to throw the deep ball, that will open up more opportunities for the screens, short passes, and the running game.

Anything over the LBs is deep enough to stretch the defense. 

LBs read pass, and 1/4 turn to their zone and eventually ‘sit down’ in their zone at approx 15-20.  So, 20+ is deep for the interior 2/3 of the field. 

Cover 3 corners have outside 3rds and cover 4 corners have outside 1/4s.  Anything that forces them to turn hips and run is deep. So a generic 5-7 yd cushion, 7-10 yds for back peddle... then hips flip at around 15 to 20 yds.  So 20+ is deep on the outside 1/4s to 1/3s of the field.

Cover 2 is easily defeated with 3 verticals, and with 3 and 4 wide formations on every down, true cover 2 is not defensively sound.

Man and man free coverages would typically trigger the Run audible or the Run Option due to the rule of numbers.

So against typical cover 3 and cover 4 the ‘deep’ ball is anything over 20 across the field.  Any D1 QB who cannot throw the simplest route tree for 5 step intermediate and deep patterns should not have been invited to campus in the first place. 

That’s why deep passing philosophy is like Roullette (long odds), the screen game is like Black Jack (controllable risk), and the short passing game is like Texas Hold’em (check until your opponent gives up his tell).

So, assuming a D1 QB, an offensive philosophy sound enough to take shots when opportunities present themselves, and a play caller mature enough to read tells, points to touch on the screen and short game being the money maker not the deep ball.

Hawgphat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 120
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2018, 10:56:18 am »

I'm wondering why Hyatt is not being mentioned then even in most fans top 3 QB's?  It's Cole, Storey, and Conner.  Is Hyatt a red shirt freshmen now or sophomore?

I know nothing about the QBs apart from what I've heard and read.  I'm told that Daulton Hyatt is a very exciting brand of QB who is very quick and very mobile, - - but who also is extremely slender and light, and might not stand up to a pounding very well at the present time.  My thinking is that - - however gifted and however electricity-generating Hyatt's style of play may be, his benefit to the team will be sharply decreased should he spend a huge chunk of time on the injured list.  The durability quotient has to be a major factor of consideration.

I'm not campaigning against Hyatt; I'm merely deeply concerned over his light frame.  170 pound linemen tend not to last very long under high pressure; - - I tend to think that 170 pound QBs don't either.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2018, 11:03:36 am »

I know nothing about the QBs apart from what I've heard and read.  I'm told that Daulton Hyatt is a very exciting brand of QB who is very quick and very mobile, - - but who also is extremely slender and light, and might not stand up to a pounding very well at the present time.  My thinking is that - - however gifted and however electricity-generating Hyatt's style of play may be, his benefit to the team will be sharply decreased should he spend a huge chunk of time on the injured list.  The durability quotient has to be a major factor of consideration.

I'm not campaigning against Hyatt; I'm merely deeply concerned over his light frame.  170 pound linemen tend not to last very long under high pressure; - - I tend to think that 170 pound QBs don't either.

I was hoping Hyatt would put on 15 lbs in the summer and Kelley would lose 15 lbs.   I do not think either happened.
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2018, 11:06:10 am »

I know nothing about the QBs apart from what I've heard and read.  I'm told that Daulton Hyatt is a very exciting brand of QB who is very quick and very mobile, - - but who also is extremely slender and light, and might not stand up to a pounding very well at the present time.  My thinking is that - - however gifted and however electricity-generating Hyatt's style of play may be, his benefit to the team will be sharply decreased should he spend a huge chunk of time on the injured list.  The durability quotient has to be a major factor of consideration.

I'm not campaigning against Hyatt; I'm merely deeply concerned over his light frame.  170 pound linemen tend not to last very long under high pressure; - - I tend to think that 170 pound QBs don't either.

If he is the best, you go with him until he is hurt and then you move to the next best.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2018, 11:08:41 am »

Anything over the LBs is deep enough to stretch the defense. 

LBs read pass, and 1/4 turn to their zone and eventually ‘sit down’ in their zone at approx 15-20.  So, 20+ is deep for the interior 2/3 of the field. 

Cover 3 corners have outside 3rds and cover 4 corners have outside 1/4s.  Anything that forces them to turn hips and run is deep. So a generic 5-7 yd cushion, 7-10 yds for back peddle... then hips flip at around 15 to 20 yds.  So 20+ is deep on the outside 1/4s to 1/3s of the field.

Cover 2 is easily defeated with 3 verticals, and with 3 and 4 wide formations on every down, true cover 2 is not defensively sound.

Man and man free coverages would typically trigger the Run audible or the Run Option due to the rule of numbers.

So against typical cover 3 and cover 4 the ‘deep’ ball is anything over 20 across the field.  Any D1 QB who cannot throw the simplest route tree for 5 step intermediate and deep patterns should not have been invited to campus in the first place. 

That’s why deep passing philosophy is like Roullette (long odds), the screen game is like Black Jack (controllable risk), and the short passing game is like Texas Hold’em (check until your opponent gives up his tell).

So, assuming a D1 QB, an offensive philosophy sound enough to take shots when opportunities present themselves, and a play caller mature enough to read tells, points to touch on the screen and short game being the money maker not the deep ball.

Great points.  Thanks. 

Can our Starting QB make these reads and have the skill set to make the throw plus will our OL give him the time.  I know these are being taught but it takes a cool headed QB along with the shill set.
Logged

1highhog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 604
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,972
  • Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat.
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2018, 11:09:40 am »

I know nothing about the QBs apart from what I've heard and read.  I'm told that Daulton Hyatt is a very exciting brand of QB who is very quick and very mobile, - - but who also is extremely slender and light, and might not stand up to a pounding very well at the present time.  My thinking is that - - however gifted and however electricity-generating Hyatt's style of play may be, his benefit to the team will be sharply decreased should he spend a huge chunk of time on the injured list.  The durability quotient has to be a major factor of consideration.

I'm not campaigning against Hyatt; I'm merely deeply concerned over his light frame.  170 pound linemen tend not to last very long under high pressure; - - I tend to think that 170 pound QBs don't either.

I didn't realize that Hyatt was such a slight of frame QB.  I have never looked up his statistics and his measurables.  I've always just went off what I've read off of Hogville about him being and exciting prospect.
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2018, 11:11:55 am »

I didn't realize that Hyatt was such a slight of frame QB.  I have never looked up his statistics and his measurables.  I've always just went off what I've read off of Hogville about him being and exciting prospect.

Johnny Manziel probably went 5’9 150 pounds when he was destroying SEC defenses. 
Logged

Hawgphat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 120
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2018, 11:16:27 am »

If he is the best, you go with him until he is hurt and then you move to the next best.

Not to be argumentative - but merely invoking logic - if you were the head coach, then, would you entertain the mindset of  - "Well, OK; I think QB "A" gives us the most bang for the buck, so I'm gonna start him; - - but he'll probably be put out of commission inside of a quarter, so I'd better have QB "B" primed and ready to hit the ground running as soon as QB "A" goes down, - - - and that likely will happen in very short order"?

A track guy who can run a 57 second 400 meters, - - but who can't run 1600 meters in under 6 minutes - - generally doesn't represent his team in the 1600 meters event.  "It's not how you start, - but how you finish"; - - - IF you finish.


                                                                  ???
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:28:31 am by Hawgphat »
Logged

BornaHog

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 14
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 451
  • Born a hog will die a hog!!!!!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2018, 11:21:09 am »

To allow a WR to receive a pass 70 yards down the field will demand our OL to block for 5+ seconds.  Good luck on that.   I am more interested in seeing who can throw an accurate and on time 5-25 yard pass.

No actually it will require roughly 3.5 to 4 seconds of blocking or scrambling and then the receiver to run under the ball in the last 1.5 to 2.5 seconds to complete the reception. any receiver that runs a 4.4 to 4.6    40 should be able to do that.
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2018, 11:23:05 am »

Not to be argumentative - but merely invoking logic - if you were the head coach, then, would you entertain the mindset of  - "Well, OK; I think QB "A" gives us the most bang for the buck, so I'm gonna start him; - - but he'll probably be put out of commission inside of a quarter, so I'd better have QB "B" primed and ready to hit the ground running as soon as QB "A" goes down, - - - and that likely will happen in very short order"?


                                                                  ???

Not to be argumentative, but your logic sucks.  You play the best player.  You don’t over think things.  Every player needs to be prepared to play to the best of his abilities, and then you pick the one that performs the best and you use him until you can’t or until he is no longer tha best option.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2018, 11:32:20 am »

No actually it will require roughly 3.5 to 4 seconds of blocking or scrambling and then the receiver to run under the ball in the last 1.5 to 2.5 seconds to complete the reception. any receiver that runs a 4.4 to 4.6    40 should be able to do that.

Fair enough. I hope we can compete several of these deep passes this year. The more we complete the more it puts fear in the defense and gives them to prepare for and to think about.
Logged

Hawgphat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 120
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2018, 11:41:13 am »

Not to be argumentative, but your logic sucks.  You play the best player.  You don’t over think things.  Every player needs to be prepared to play to the best of his abilities, and then you pick the one that performs the best and you use him until you can’t or until he is no longer tha best option.

I won't pursue this disagreement any further; that would be unavailing.  But insistence upon starting a QB who gives every indication of embodying an undue fragility and high-risk injury likelihood right from the get-go doesn't seem to me to be a very wise priority plan.  If you put him out there into the meat grinder - and he goes down for the count within the first 10 minutes of play, you've lost his services - possibly for a substantial period of time - and you're down one QB at the outset of the season, without giving the young man an opportunity to better develop himself physically into a somewhat more rugged condition.  If the slender QB goes in and completes several nice passes, - - and then goes out for the season on a serious injury after scampering for a 20 yard gain on a busted play, - - then what have you really gained by playing him before he is physically prepared to compete at the SEC level?
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2018, 11:42:37 am »

I won't pursue this disagreement any further; that would be unavailing.  But insistence upon starting a QB who gives every indication of embodying an undue fragility and high-risk injury likelihood right from the get-go doesn't seem to me to be a very wise priority plan.  If you put him out there into the meat grinder - and he goes down for the count within the first 10 minutes of play, you've lost his services - possibly for a substantial period of time - and you're down one QB at the outset of the season, without giving the young man an opportunity to better develop himself physically into a somewhat more rugged condition.  If the slender QB goes in and completes several nice passes, - - and then goes out for the season on a serious injury after scampering for a 20 yard gain on a busted play, - - then what have you really gained by playing him before he is physically prepared to compete at the SEC level?

Yes, it obviously makes much more sense to play the QB who is not as effective based upon nothing more than the FEAR of what might happen.

I didn’t know Bert was still posting on this board.
Logged

roothawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2018, 11:43:18 am »

kelly is a winner to and has attitude. kelly will start
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 307
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,511
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2018, 11:50:59 am »

Fair enough. I hope we can compete several of these deep passes this year. The more we complete the more it puts fear in the defense and gives them to prepare for and to think about.

In the past several years, and last year with Cornelius getting injured, we really haven't had a WR that was a threat to run past guys for the deep ball.  Dating clear back to Morgan and Henry...we've relied on mostly possession receivers.  Maybe this year we will have someone emerge that can get behind the defense and re-establish the deep threat, and stretch the field.  Our last deep threat...was Hunter Henry getting behind the LB's and splitting the safeties down the middle of the field.   :o       

The old Raiders teams of the 80's and 90's seemed to always have that one guy that was the deep threat, and they would air it out at least 2-3 times a half just to keep the defense honest, and it would result in some big plays and an occasional PI. 

In college, with the PI being 15 yards, it's not quite the same impact as it is in the NFL when you get the penalty.  But...it keeps the safeties honest, and if it gets picked.....it's usually as good as a punt.  The caveat is...it does take a little bit for those plays to develop, so you do have to protect (again...something we didn't do last year).

With improved footwork and some blocking...I think Kelley is our biggest deep ball threat at this point.  Question is...do we have a WR with the speed to outrun CB's, and can we block for at least 4-5 seconds?  We'll see....
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2018, 11:58:01 am »

Kelley is going to have to show more accuracy than he has so far.
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 307
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,511
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2018, 11:58:21 am »

I won't pursue this disagreement any further; that would be unavailing.  But insistence upon starting a QB who gives every indication of embodying an undue fragility and high-risk injury likelihood right from the get-go doesn't seem to me to be a very wise priority plan.  If you put him out there into the meat grinder - and he goes down for the count within the first 10 minutes of play, you've lost his services - possibly for a substantial period of time - and you're down one QB at the outset of the season, without giving the young man an opportunity to better develop himself physically into a somewhat more rugged condition.  If the slender QB goes in and completes several nice passes, - - and then goes out for the season on a serious injury after scampering for a 20 yard gain on a busted play, - - then what have you really gained by playing him before he is physically prepared to compete at the SEC level?

I see where you're going with this...but the list of slight QB's that tore it up in CFB is long.  Manziel, RG III, Pat White, even dating back to Charlie Ward at FSU.....were difference makers, who despite being slight of build...managed to hold up well, and not take direct hits.  BUT....they were exceptional, and that has to be conceded. 

I think the point here is...if a kid emerges as an unstoppable force in practice, and he's obviously your best QB, then I think CCM will play him. 

Any QB can go down on any play, so unless they're so frail that the wind from a blitzing LB knocks them down, I think we'll see the best player on the field.  I happen to think it will be Kelley based on his moxy and experience alone, but that will only last until he proves he can hit open receivers.  He wasn't great at that last season...but there's reason to think he will improve.   
Logged

urkillnmesmalls

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 307
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12,511
  • Experience: You get it just after you needed it!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2018, 12:01:45 pm »

Kelley is going to have to show more accuracy than he has so far.

To be a difference maker....agreed.  But to be better than our other choices...we'll see.  Storey didn't throw any more accurately than Kelley in the spring game, so if that's his primary competition, I don't see what Storey offers that Kelley doesn't. 

One of the new kids....we'll see.  I think if they show they can be accurate, and be a more reliable threat to run...we may see some experiments as we go along.  The question for me is always....how will they handle pressure?  That's where great practice QB's get in games and their decision making takes a nosedive. 
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 434
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 26,061
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2018, 12:07:41 pm »

To be a difference maker....agreed.  But to be better than our other choices...we'll see.  Storey didn't throw any more accurately than Kelley in the spring game, so if that's his primary competition, I don't see what Storey offers that Kelley doesn't. 

One of the new kids....we'll see.  I think if they show they can be accurate, and be a more reliable threat to run...we may see some experiments as we go along.  The question for me is always....how will they handle pressure?  That's where great practice QB's get in games and their decision making takes a nosedive.

I don’t think Kelley is the answer but it is all guesswork at this point.  And even if he isn’t the answer, he still might b the best we have this year.
Logged

RyanMallettsEgo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 963
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,363
  • Take it easy, I'm pre-law.
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2018, 12:07:54 pm »

I won't pursue this disagreement any further; that would be unavailing.  But insistence upon starting a QB who gives every indication of embodying an undue fragility and high-risk injury likelihood right from the get-go doesn't seem to me to be a very wise priority plan.  If you put him out there into the meat grinder - and he goes down for the count within the first 10 minutes of play, you've lost his services - possibly for a substantial period of time - and you're down one QB at the outset of the season, without giving the young man an opportunity to better develop himself physically into a somewhat more rugged condition.  If the slender QB goes in and completes several nice passes, - - and then goes out for the season on a serious injury after scampering for a 20 yard gain on a busted play, - - then what have you really gained by playing him before he is physically prepared to compete at the SEC level?

Yeah, and what if he doesn't?

You're not gonna play the best guy you've got because you're scared he might get hurt?

Absurd.
Logged

razorcash2

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2018, 12:13:48 pm »

So this time last year CK was "the franchise" and future of the program.  Now some of you don't think he can take two steps without falling on his face?

Finicky fan base...

...Uh no... he was overrated by the masses, particularly after running over a 180lb DB, and he's proven very little since then...and got got in trouble with the law...and he ate at hot dog in the stands during a game.
Logged

WooPig92

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2018, 12:39:08 pm »

But I say for us to be the most effective offense we need all the bullets we can get and a running QB is one more bullet.  We just do not have an offensive fire power to win those 50/50 games with out a running QB.  A really effective dual threat QB could be the difference between 5 or 8 wins.  Even if the QB can only averages over 3 yards a carry.    Just keep us our of negative plays and move the chains.

I don't expect this type of offense this year unless we go with a 2 qb system (which I'm not a fan of, just a personal preference).  KJ Jefferson will be the guy to get us into the true dual threat offense
Logged

WooPig92

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2018, 12:41:36 pm »

To allow a WR to receive a pass 70 yards down the field will demand our OL to block for 5+ seconds.  Good luck on that.   I am more interested in seeing who can throw an accurate and on time 5-25 yard pass.

In this offense it's as important, if not more important for a QB to be able to hit a receiver/back in stride in the flat or on a 5 yard slant as opposed to hitting deep balls. If we cant hit a guy in stride and keep his momentum moving forward, this offense will fail
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 365
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 48,265
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2018, 12:46:21 pm »

What amazes me his how many here seem to want to totally discount the qb's arm anymore and just look at how he can run. From all reports, CK has the best arm, BY FAR, of all the qb's on campus. The ability to get the ball to receivers on time and on spot, and with some zip so the dbs can't get there, is key to this offense.  BUt no, no, lets just put a guy out there because we think he can run around.
Logged

toddfromdesarc

Re: QB Battle
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2018, 12:49:19 pm »

I won't pursue this disagreement any further; that would be unavailing.  But insistence upon starting a QB who gives every indication of embodying an undue fragility and high-risk injury likelihood right from the get-go doesn't seem to me to be a very wise priority plan.  If you put him out there into the meat grinder - and he goes down for the count within the first 10 minutes of play, you've lost his services - possibly for a substantial period of time - and you're down one QB at the outset of the season, without giving the young man an opportunity to better develop himself physically into a somewhat more rugged condition.  If the slender QB goes in and completes several nice passes, - - and then goes out for the season on a serious injury after scampering for a 20 yard gain on a busted play, - - then what have you really gained by playing him before he is physically prepared to compete at the SEC level?

All I could think to myself during the Nutt days was why aren't we giving Michael Smith more touches. DMac was a generational player but he does us no good if he's hurt. Think what would have happened if he went down against South Carolina in '07. Hell, Michael Smith had 10.7 YPC and DMac only had 9.4 in that game!

Hawgphat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 120
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2018, 12:53:50 pm »

I'm all for playing the best-performing QB, whoever that turns out to be.  As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't have a "favorite" QB candidate.  Neither do I have anything against any QB candidate.  I am merely concerned about Hyatt's ability to sustain a steady pounding.  I would surely hate to see the young man suffer a major injury right off the bat; but that very real concern has nothing to do with any estimation of his skills set or aptitude.  If CM deems Hyatt to represent our best hope of success, then so be it.  I'm a confirmed Hogs fan.
Logged

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 269
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 49,658
  • Proud Hog Supporter!!!
Re: QB Battle
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2018, 01:11:42 pm »

What amazes me his how many here seem to want to totally discount the qb's arm anymore and just look at how he can run. From all reports, CK has the best arm, BY FAR, of all the qb's on campus. The ability to get the ball to receivers on time and on spot, and with some zip so the dbs can't get there, is key to this offense.  BUt no, no, lets just put a guy out there because we think he can run around.

Good post. I've said it before and I'll say it again: As a passer, Kelley reminds me of Ryan Mallett but Kelley is a lot more mobile than Ryan was. Many on here seem to forget that early on, Ryan had trouble completing his short and medium range passes but that problem was corrected just as it will be corrected with Kelley.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 8   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas