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Author Topic: Let's say you're right...  (Read 2674 times)

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Hogindasticks

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2018, 04:46:07 pm »

About your projected win total for the 2018 season. With a relatively easier schedule and lots of returning experience. What is your expectation for the 2019 season? The schedule sets up pretty similarly in 2019. Some key seniors will be gone. To me it's about those JR's. Which of them will attempt to go pro?

Listening to Phil Steele on Mattingly's show he is pretty high on the Hogs and has them as one of his most improved teams. His expectation is a bowl game. However, when ranking the teams in the West the Hogs come in at near the bottom.

Naw...lets just say youre wrong.
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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2018, 05:17:24 pm »

I see 7-5 this year, as long as we take care of business against Vanderbilt and Colorado State. That gives us 5 wins and there are five SEC teams that we battle to the wire almost every year, no matter how good or bad we are. With Bielema we usually came out on the short end with our classic bow-out in the 4th quarter, so I feel we go 2-3 in those games, which puts us at 7-5.


The question being what happens in 2019, we trade Vanderbilt for a road game at Kentucky. That should be a tougher game. We get CSU at home. Slightly easier.
Not knowing anything more than I have seen, I see 7-5 in 2019, also.

Before JLS and CBB arrived, I used to average 0.5 games to the optimistic side in my pre-season predictions -- through Ford, HDN, BP.
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HogBreath

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2018, 06:14:46 pm »

However, when ranking the teams in the West the Hogs come in at near the bottom.
Most teams around the country would be predicted to come in at or near the bottom of the SEC west.

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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2018, 06:43:37 pm »

Sure.  I just think fans sometime fall in the trap of assuming the teams ahead of them have questions that will not have positive answers and all the questions of their team will.

So much troof in this.
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Earth Hog Fan

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2018, 06:50:16 pm »

Thanks. hogsanity is entitled to his low opinions of the program, Arkansas high school football, and Razorbacks “fuhball” fans (“bidness” has long been recognized as Arkansas dialect, but “fuhball”?).  But after a decade of seeing the same thing here day-after-day, it gets old.  I heard a quote yesterday attributed to Dr. Martin Luther King - “Attitude, not aptitude, creates altitude.”  Lot’s of truth in that.

Matthew went through orientation with a bunch of other freshmen players on June 28-29 and started Summer II on July 2. Thanks for asking.  Everything at U of A is first class. We have a lot to be proud of. I did a lot of walking during orientation those two days and had forgotten how beautiful the entire campus is. And the views are incredible. The stadium is spectacular. Razorback Road from Maple to Baum is for that matter. Can’t wait for September 1.

"Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude." Zig Ziglar
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Al Boarland

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2018, 07:03:55 pm »

Most teams around the country would be predicted to come in at or near the bottom of the SEC west.

 No question.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2018, 08:40:52 pm »

Over 60% of FBS programs go to a bowl game these days. This isn't the measuring stick it was in 1980.

That wasn't the point. I was answering his question about making a bowl in the SECW.
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hogsanity

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2018, 09:18:07 am »


I don’t know why so much emphasis is placed here on wins and losses.


I truly can not believe no one else picked up on this. Our last AD was figuratively tarred and feathered for saying we are not a win at all cost program. Here we have a Razorback dad saying he cant understand why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses.

The thing is, I agree with you. I have asked before, what, really, is the difference between 6 wins and 8? Still no where near winning the west with either, still going to a bowl that is probably played at a horrible time, in a lousy city, on a weekday between Christmas and New Years Eve. Yet, if they win 6 people will freak out, and if they win 8 people will say it should have been 9 or 10.

But, in the end, wins and losses are how people measure the program. Sure, it is nice to have a nice stadium, modern facilities, etc, but those are not things a program is measured by. Yet here we have a fan, a parents, asking why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses. That question truly exemplifies where this program is.

Al Boarland

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2018, 10:14:06 am »

I truly can not believe no one else picked up on this. Our last AD was figuratively tarred and feathered for saying we are not a win at all cost program. Here we have a Razorback dad saying he cant understand why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses.

The thing is, I agree with you. I have asked before, what, really, is the difference between 6 wins and 8? Still no where near winning the west with either, still going to a bowl that is probably played at a horrible time, in a lousy city, on a weekday between Christmas and New Years Eve. Yet, if they win 6 people will freak out, and if they win 8 people will say it should have been 9 or 10.

But, in the end, wins and losses are how people measure the program. Sure, it is nice to have a nice stadium, modern facilities, etc, but those are not things a program is measured by. Yet here we have a fan, a parents, asking why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses. That question truly exemplifies where this program is.

Great post.  I think the answer is many feel a sense of pride when the team they love is successful.  Some people don't have a whole lot to be proud of, but when their team wins they feel like winners.
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GuvHog

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2018, 10:26:30 am »

I truly can not believe no one else picked up on this. Our last AD was figuratively tarred and feathered for saying we are not a win at all cost program. Here we have a Razorback dad saying he cant understand why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses.

The thing is, I agree with you. I have asked before, what, really, is the difference between 6 wins and 8? Still no where near winning the west with either, still going to a bowl that is probably played at a horrible time, in a lousy city, on a weekday between Christmas and New Years Eve. Yet, if they win 6 people will freak out, and if they win 8 people will say it should have been 9 or 10.

But, in the end, wins and losses are how people measure the program. Sure, it is nice to have a nice stadium, modern facilities, etc, but those are not things a program is measured by. Yet here we have a fan, a parents, asking why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses. That question truly exemplifies where this program is.

I understand what you are saying but wins and losses are part of the deal, all be it a small part. College ADs are not Judged by how much money they raise for the department, how the athletes do academically, or on how the facilities have improved since his/her arrival. ADs are judged by how well they hire and fire Head coaches, and how well the athletic programs are competing. It's all about MONEY and winning increases donations to the Athletic Department. It's a fact of life that if an AD's hires are not having success, the AD won't be employed very long. Jeff Long is proof of that.

hogsanity

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2018, 10:57:23 am »

I understand what you are saying but wins and losses are part of the deal, all be it a small part. College ADs are not Judged by how much money they raise for the department, how the athletes do academically, or on how the facilities have improved since his/her arrival. ADs are judged by how well they hire and fire Head coaches, and how well the athletic programs are competing. It's all about MONEY and winning increases donations to the Athletic Department. It's a fact of life that if an AD's hires are not having success, the AD won't be employed very long. Jeff Long is proof of that.

Yet we have a Razorback dad asking, on a Razorback message board, why people put so much emphasis on wins and loses.

Great post.  I think the answer is many feel a sense of pride when the team they love is successful.  Some people don't have a whole lot to be proud of, but when their team wins they feel like winners.

Which goes back to what I said about people deriving their self-worth out of what the team, whatever team they follow, does.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2018, 11:38:42 am »



Which goes back to what I said about people deriving their self-worth out of what the team, whatever team they follow, does.

I don't disagree.  I don't think everyone is like that.  Many actually attended the university and have found success in their personal life, so while they are passionate it does not define them.  Obviously there are successful people who are fans that did not attend the UofA, but Arkansas is not an overly rich state by any means.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2018, 12:11:40 pm »

I truly can not believe no one else picked up on this. Our last AD was figuratively tarred and feathered for saying we are not a win at all cost program. Here we have a Razorback dad saying he cant understand why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses.

The thing is, I agree with you. I have asked before, what, really, is the difference between 6 wins and 8? Still no where near winning the west with either, still going to a bowl that is probably played at a horrible time, in a lousy city, on a weekday between Christmas and New Years Eve. Yet, if they win 6 people will freak out, and if they win 8 people will say it should have been 9 or 10.

But, in the end, wins and losses are how people measure the program. Sure, it is nice to have a nice stadium, modern facilities, etc, but those are not things a program is measured by. Yet here we have a fan, a parents, asking why so much emphasis is put on wins and losses. That question truly exemplifies where this program is.

I can promise you I know of at least one player who would rather take a whipping than lose a football game.  Taken in context, my comment was directed to Hogville itself, not to the importance of winning to the university.

Having said that, I've been a regular here for about 12 years.  I've often talked about the process being more important than the result.  Nick Saban and many other successful coaches have preached the same thing probably since Yale was winning NC's.  Get the process right, and winning will take care of itself.  Don't take that to mean we will suddenly become Alabama if we get the process right, but I will tell you that, of the little bit I've seen of the coaches we now have on The Hill, they definitely have a plan that will get the process where it needs to be. 
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GuvHog

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2018, 01:09:37 pm »


Yet we have a Razorback dad asking, on a Razorback message board, why people put so much emphasis on wins and loses.


Yes, and I answered the question as to why.
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LZH

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2018, 04:03:18 am »

I understand what you are saying but wins and losses are part of the deal, all be it a small part. College ADs are not Judged by how much money they raise for the department, how the athletes do academically, or on how the facilities have improved since his/her arrival. ADs are judged by how well they hire and fire Head coaches, and how well the athletic programs are competing. It's all about MONEY and winning increases donations to the Athletic Department. It's a fact of life that if an AD's hires are not having success, the AD won't be employed very long. Jeff Long is proof of that.

You gotta switch back to beer, Guv.

Nashville Fan

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2018, 09:52:53 am »

I understand what you are saying but wins and losses are part of the deal, all be it a small part. College ADs are not Judged by how much money they raise for the department, how the athletes do academically, or on how the facilities have improved since his/her arrival. ADs are judged by how well they hire and fire Head coaches, and how well the athletic programs are competing. It's all about MONEY and winning increases donations to the Athletic Department. It's a fact of life that if an AD's hires are not having success, the AD won't be employed very long. Jeff Long is proof of that.
I said essentially the same thing in the Jeff Long thread and got roasted. Until recently I took up for what Jeff Long was trying to do. However, any executive ultimately gets judged by their hires. The coaches that the AD hires are judged ultimately by the wins and loses. Sure integrity, scholastic achievement, off field issues can lengthen or shorten the leash on both the AD and coaches. But, they know that ultimately it comes down to wins and losses. And, if they win more that you lose, the teams will occasionally compete for championships.

hogsanity

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2018, 10:01:58 am »

I said essentially the same thing in the Jeff Long thread and got roasted. Until recently I took up for what Jeff Long was trying to do. However, any executive ultimately gets judged by their hires. The coaches that the AD hires are judged ultimately by the wins and loses. Sure integrity, scholastic achievement, off field issues can lengthen or shorten the leash on both the AD and coaches. But, they know that ultimately it comes down to wins and losses. And, if they win more that you lose, the teams will occasionally compete for championships.

It is funny how many more people seem to suddenly be jumping on the " wins and losses are not the be all end all " line of thinking, when just a short 6 months ago they wanted Long's head on a stick for the " not a win at all cost program ".

I'll go back th what I said earlier, is 8 wins really that much better than 6? yes, 6 is better than 5 because it gets you a bowl ( regardless of how many teams make bowls now 0 so you get the extra work and you do not have the stigma of NOT making a bowl. But from 6-8 is not much different, and in the secw 9 sometimes gets you nothing great.

If in 4 years Morris has not had a 9 or 10 win season, is he, and by association HY, a failure?

bphi11ips

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2018, 10:13:35 am »

It is funny how many more people seem to suddenly be jumping on the " wins and losses are not the be all end all " line of thinking, when just a short 6 months ago they wanted Long's head on a stick for the " not a win at all cost program ".

I'll go back th what I said earlier, is 8 wins really that much better than 6? yes, 6 is better than 5 because it gets you a bowl ( regardless of how many teams make bowls now 0 so you get the extra work and you do not have the stigma of NOT making a bowl. But from 6-8 is not much different, and in the secw 9 sometimes gets you nothing great.

If in 4 years Morris has not had a 9 or 10 win season, is he, and by association HY, a failure?

6-6 usually means a conference record of 2-6 or 3-5.  8-4 usually means a conference record of 4-4 or 5-3.  Would you rather win 2 or 3 conference games or 4 or 5?  Any conference game at any given time is often against a ranked opponent.  Does our average record affect recruiting?

Of course it's better to win 8 than 6 in the SEC West.  To say otherwise is absurd.

Does 4-8 in 2017 mean we will be 4-8 or 5-7 in 2018?  No.  Hence my comment that too much emphasis is placed here on wins and losses.  The most common offseason threads on Hogville are those predicting wins and losses for the upcoming season.  It gets old. 

Of course wins and losses matter.  What matters most is leaving it all on the field at least 13 times a year. 
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redleg

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2018, 10:35:16 am »

About your projected win total for the 2018 season. With a relatively easier schedule and lots of returning experience. What is your expectation for the 2019 season? The schedule sets up pretty similarly in 2019. Some key seniors will be gone. To me it's about those JR's. Which of them will attempt to go pro?

Listening to Phil Steele on Mattingly's show he is pretty high on the Hogs and has them as one of his most improved teams. His expectation is a bowl game. However, when ranking the teams in the West the Hogs come in at near the bottom.
They should be a game better in 2019...at least. 2020 is when I see the Hogs really beginning to make some hay!!!
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hogsanity

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2018, 12:44:11 pm »

6-6 usually means a conference record of 2-6 or 3-5.  8-4 usually means a conference record of 4-4 or 5-3.  Would you rather win 2 or 3 conference games or 4 or 5?  Any conference game at any given time is often against a ranked opponent.  Does our average record affect recruiting?

Of course it's better to win 8 than 6 in the SEC West.  To say otherwise is absurd.

Does 4-8 in 2017 mean we will be 4-8 or 5-7 in 2018?  No.  Hence my comment that too much emphasis is placed here on wins and losses.  The most common offseason threads on Hogville are those predicting wins and losses for the upcoming season.  It gets old. 

Of course wins and losses matter.  What matters most is leaving it all on the field at least 13 times a year. 

Actually, I don't think 8 wins impacts recruiting anymore than 6, or 10. Recruiting improved not one bit when BP went 21-5 over two years. What TANGIBLE impacts does 8 wins have that 6 does not? Maybe a slightly larger bowl payout, which all goes to the sec above expenses anyway?

I get it from the player angle, my kid plays a varsity sport and I know how losing a game kills him, the players want to win every game. As for HERE, how else do you expect fans to measure things? Many have already shown they would make a deal with Satan himself for a football nc. Many have said cheating is fine. They blow off claims about doing things the right way, or having smart players, or having integrity. So of course they are going to use wins and loses to measure success and failure.

cosmodrum

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2018, 12:49:41 pm »

We went 5-7 in Bobby's first year. I considered it a successful season because there was a clear foundation and philosophy. Things were clearly headed in the right direction. If I see something similar for 2018, I'm good.

Nashville Fan

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2018, 01:58:59 pm »

6-6 usually means a conference record of 2-6 or 3-5.  8-4 usually means a conference record of 4-4 or 5-3.  Would you rather win 2 or 3 conference games or 4 or 5?  Any conference game at any given time is often against a ranked opponent.  Does our average record affect recruiting?

Of course it's better to win 8 than 6 in the SEC West.  To say otherwise is absurd.

Does 4-8 in 2017 mean we will be 4-8 or 5-7 in 2018?  No.  Hence my comment that too much emphasis is placed here on wins and losses.  The most common offseason threads on Hogville are those predicting wins and losses for the upcoming season.  It gets old. 

Of course wins and losses matter.  What matters most is leaving it all on the field at least 13 times a year. 
This. There is a big difference between 6-6 and 8-4. Those two or three more wins is the difference between finishing 3rd or last in the SEC West. 8-4 is top 25 and 6-6 is out of the the top 50.
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HotlantaHog

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2018, 03:32:42 pm »

We went 5-7 in Bobby's first year. I considered it a successful season because there was a clear foundation and philosophy. Things were clearly headed in the right direction. If I see something similar for 2018, I'm good.

Agree 100% with this. You could see on the field giant improvements that first year, even without a lot of wins.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2018, 03:37:52 pm »

Agree 100% with this. You could see on the field giant improvements that first year, even without a lot of wins.

Yep. I've said for awhile, if this year mirrors that year, I'll be pretty excited.

Our losses that year were to 12-2 Alabama, national champion 13-1 Florida, 12-1 Texas, 7-6 Kentucky (by 1 point), 9-4 Ole Miss (by 2 points), 7-6 South Carolina, and 4-8 Mississippi State (by 3 points).

We beat Auburn and Tulsa that year, both who were ranked at the time we beat them.

I won't say an ill word at all if we go 5-7 if it mirrors that '08 year.

HogPharmer

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2018, 03:39:14 pm »

Yep. I've said for awhile, if this year mirrors that year, I'll be pretty excited.

Our losses that year were to 12-2 Alabama, national champion 13-1 Florida, 12-1 Texas, 7-6 Kentucky (by 1 point), 9-4 Ole Miss (by 2 points), 7-6 South Carolina, and 4-8 Mississippi State (by 3 points).

We beat Auburn and Tulsa that year, both who were ranked at the time we beat them.

I won't say an ill word at all if we go 5-7 if it mirrors that '08 year.

'98, '08, '18?

Perhaps a pattern developing here.

wildturkey8

Re: Let's say you're right...
« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2018, 03:41:50 pm »

Yep. I've said for awhile, if this year mirrors that year, I'll be pretty excited.

Our losses that year were to 12-2 Alabama, national champion 13-1 Florida, 12-1 Texas, 7-6 Kentucky (by 1 point), 9-4 Ole Miss (by 2 points), 7-6 South Carolina, and 4-8 Mississippi State (by 3 points).

We beat Auburn and Tulsa that year, both who were ranked at the time we beat them.

I won't say an ill word at all if we go 5-7 if it mirrors that '08 year.
Best post you have made Mallet, I completely agree with it.
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