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Author Topic: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....  (Read 2223 times)

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Busta_Nutt

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2018, 03:24:52 pm »

Really your statement is not correct. In the last 6 years, our peak win total is 8 games. In the last 6 years, South Carolina has won 11 games twice.

Last 10 years

Resume A: 67-59 record. 6 bowls, 4-2 bowl record. 1 10+ win season, 1 11+ win season.

Resume B: 81-49 record. 9 bowls, 5-4 bowl record. 3 11+ win seasons.

I'll take candidate B. Wouldn't you?

Hey, guess what? Resume B also won its division in 2010.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2018, 03:27:25 pm »

Hey, guess what? Resume B also won its division in 2010.

The year we played in the Sugar Bowl (meaning we were #2 in the conference that season)?

You made your argument with your original post.  Should have left it at that...

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wildturkey8

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2018, 03:39:59 pm »

Really your statement is not correct. In the last 6 years, our peak win total is 8 games. In the last 6 years, South Carolina has won 11 games twice.

Last 10 years

Resume A: 67-59 record. 6 bowls, 4-2 bowl record. 1 10+ win season, 1 11+ win season.

Resume B: 81-49 record. 9 bowls, 5-4 bowl record. 3 11+ win seasons.

I'll take candidate B. Wouldn't you?


I think the 10 year time frame is misleading.  We have been terrible for the last 6.  I would point out that we absolutely destroyed their 2010 division champions at Brice-Williams.  We have suxed the last 6 years.  We all know that. 

wildturkey8

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2018, 03:40:35 pm »

The year we played in the Sugar Bowl (meaning we were #2 in the conference that season)?

You made your argument with your original post.  Should have left it at that...
Ooops, Big 12 logic at play.
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Busta_Nutt

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2018, 03:46:44 pm »

The year we played in the Sugar Bowl (meaning we were #2 in the conference that season)?

You made your argument with your original post.  Should have left it at that...

Just expanding on my argument. They've had three 11-win seasons over the past decade, as well as a division championship. Regardless, the argument still remains and it has strong, factual evidence to back it up.
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Busta_Nutt

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2018, 04:08:40 pm »

I think the 10 year time frame is misleading.  We have been terrible for the last 6.  I would point out that we absolutely destroyed their 2010 division champions at Brice-Williams.  We have suxed the last 6 years.  We all know that.

How is it misleading? It's just a larger sample size. I stated that over the past decade, S. Carolina has been a superior program to Arkansas. You--incorrectly--responded saying that my statement was not correct, when, in fact, it was correct. The numbers that Mr. Ego presented outlining Resume A (Arkansas) and Resume B (S. Carolina) are factual. Now, if you can't see that Resume B (S. Carolina) is clearly superior to Resume A (Arkansas) over the given 10-year time span, then I cannot help you, but I know someone who can. Also, you arbitrarily rerouted the argument to 6 years, because, of course, you knew that Arkansas has not had a successful program in that time frame...but, that's neither here nor there.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2018, 04:20:16 pm »

Just expanding on my argument. They've had three 11-win seasons over the past decade, as well as a division championship. Regardless, the argument still remains and it has strong, factual evidence to back it up.

I agree with you on your other points.  But any team winning the East the last few years isn't an argument for that team being better than any team from the West.

2011 we were #3 in the country, and still only #3 in our division...

195bc

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2018, 04:20:22 pm »

How do you figure? He had USC at their highest level ever for a couple of years. He beat Ohio State two years in a row in bowl games.

The SWC wasn't weak back in the day, either.

Actually, during the 70s and 80s, the SWC was a very mediocre major conference, often finishing the season in the middle of conference rankings in terms of schools finishing the season ranked in the AP (AP poll went from 20 to 25 in 1989). In the 21 years of 1970-1990, the nine-team SWC averaged 2.47 schools finishing the season ranked in the AP (of course, SMU did not play a couple years).


Conference rankings according to schools finishing the season ranked (1970-1990), with an average of 7.6 major conferences per season during that time, including grouping the independents together as a "conference," and most conferences were the size of the SWC:
- SWC finished first or tied for first 3 times (1975, 1978, 1979).
- SWC finished second or tied for second 3 times.
- SWC finished third or tied for third 4 times.
- SWC finished fourth or tied for fourth 3 times.
- SWC finished fifth or tied for fifth 4 times.
- SWC finished or tied for last or second to last 4 times.

Put that all together and the SWC was the definition of average. Arkansas' bowl record during that time was 5-8-1, for what's it worth.

bphi11ips

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2018, 04:24:34 pm »

Tradition doesn't matter. S. Carolina could just as easily say that they might be an entirely different program today had Steve Spurrier been the coach in 1992 rather than Sparky Woods. At the end of the day, S. Carolina has had a far better football program for the past decade and if tradition meant anything then this wouldn't be the case.

Tradition is not measured in college football over a decade. There would be no reason to play games if each outcome were determined by a century of results.

Carry on.
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195bc

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2018, 04:25:25 pm »

We have suxed the last 6 years.  We all know that. 

We have sucked for far longer than 6 years. We have finished the season ranked only five times in the past 28 years. We've only had a winning record 15 of the past 28 seasons.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2018, 04:31:43 pm »

We have sucked for far longer than 6 years. We have finished the season ranked only five times in the past 28 years. We've only had a winning record 15 of the past 28 seasons.

I really wanted this to be wrong...I thought no way this was true.

But sure enough...

Since 1990, we've finished the season ranked in the AP Poll only 5 times. 1998, 1999, 2006, 2010, 2011.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 04:46:51 pm by RyanMallettsEgo »
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195bc

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2018, 04:42:32 pm »

I really wanted this to be wrong...I thought no way this was true.

But sure enough...

Since 1990, we've finished the season ranked in the AP Poll only 5 times. 1998, 1998, 2006, 2010, 2011.

Depressing isn't it. For us that grew up with Razorback football in the 80s and earlier, we often fall into the trap of feeling Arkansas is a better program than it really is. For nearly 30 years, Arkansas has barely done anything. We've rarely been ranked, and during that time we have a 6-10 bowl record, making a bowl game about every other year.
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195bc

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2018, 05:09:50 pm »

I really wanted this to be wrong...I thought no way this was true.

But sure enough...

Since 1990, we've finished the season ranked in the AP Poll only 5 times. 1998, 1998, 2006, 2010, 2011.

To wallow in sorrow a little longer, just for reference, here are the number of times the following schools have finished in the top 25 since 1990:

- Arizona - 4
- Illinois - 4
- Maryland - 4
- Baylor - 4
- ARKANSAS - 5
- Cal - 5
- Virginia - 5
- Purdue - 5
- Oregon State - 5
- South Carolina - 6
- NC State - 6
- UNC - 6
- Washington State - 6
- Arizona State - 6
- Mississippi State - 7
- Missouri - 7
- Syracuse - 7
- Utah - 8
- Oklahoma State - 8
- BYU - 9
- Ole Miss - 9
- Georgia Tech - 9
- Louisville - 10
- Iowa - 10
- Boise State - 11
- TCU - 12
- Texas A&M - 12
- Kansas State - 13

I just randomly selected these schools. Point is, we're at the bottom of the list for schools that most would consider far inferior programs. Had we been in a weaker conference all that time, maybe we'd be on par with Oklahoma State. But even in the SEC, Ole Miss and Mississippi State are better. A&M is showing that it's better than us in the SEC, and so is Missouri.
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bphi11ips

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2018, 05:16:01 pm »

To wallow in sorrow a little longer, just for reference, here are the number of times the following schools have finished in the top 25 since 1990:

- Arizona - 4
- Illinois - 4
- Maryland - 4
- Baylor - 4
- ARKANSAS - 5
- Cal - 5
- Virginia - 5
- Purdue - 5
- Oregon State - 5
- South Carolina - 6
- NC State - 6
- UNC - 6
- Washington State - 6
- Arizona State - 6
- Mississippi State - 7
- Missouri - 7
- Syracuse - 7
- Utah - 8
- Oklahoma State - 8
- BYU - 9
- Ole Miss - 9
- Georgia Tech - 9
- Louisville - 10
- Iowa - 10
- Boise State - 11
- TCU - 12
- Texas A&M - 12
- Kansas State - 13

I just randomly selected these schools. Point is, we're at the bottom of the list for schools that most would consider far inferior programs. Had we been in a weaker conference all that time, maybe we'd be on par with Oklahoma State. But even in the SEC, Ole Miss and Mississippi State are better. A&M is showing that it's better than us in the SEC, and so is Missouri.


I refer you to the question posed in the OP.
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195bc

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2018, 10:19:28 pm »

I refer you to the question posed in the OP.

The answer is yes, we would have been little better. Hatfield, in my opinion, would have been better a little better than Ford, Nutt, and BB. Holtz would have been a little better than Hatfield. Neither we’re a Petrino.
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TuckerHog

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2018, 10:23:06 pm »

People say that mediocre coaches has hurt the hogs in their SEC tenure. Meanwhile, Holtz and Hatfield, two of the most prolific coaches in hog history did very well in their time with the Hogs, along with Petrino who in only 3 years had Arkansas as a Top 5 team in a BCS bowl.

That said, if it were Holtz and Hatfield were the coaches during Arkansas's transition in the SEC, would Arkansas's record and reputation be a lot better than what it is now? Or did Holtz and hatfield benefit off a weaker SWC?


Bobby Petrino is the best coach this program ever had.  Holtz probably number two. Nutt was a better coach than Hatfield
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hawgfan4life

Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2018, 10:53:36 am »



Bobby Petrino is the best coach this program ever had.  Holtz probably number two. Nutt was a better coach than Hatfield

HDN was never as bad as many like to believe, but he wasn't as good of a coach as Hatfield.  You simply liked his style of play better is my guess, but preferred style doesn't have anything to do with coaching ability.  If BP is 1 and LH is 2, where is Frank Broyles?  My guess is you weren't around through the 60s when we were elite.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2018, 11:00:45 am »

Hatfield would have been a carbon of Nutt in record, maybe get another title of some sort and Holtz would have been pretty much like BP, we hardly knew ya...
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hawganatic

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2018, 11:41:09 am »



Bobby Petrino is the best coach this program ever had.  Holtz probably number two. Nutt was a better coach than Hatfield

You can make this claim about Nutt all you want.  I'm going to look at the actual records, and determine that Hatfield was by far the better coach.

You have to be a special kind of something to argue with a 75% winning record.
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TuckerHog

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Re: If Holtz and Hatfield coached when Arkansas moved to the SEC....
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2018, 03:26:30 pm »


HDN was never as bad as many like to believe, but he wasn't as good of a coach as Hatfield.  You simply liked his style of play better is my guess, but preferred style doesn't have anything to do with coaching ability.  If BP is 1 and LH is 2, where is Frank Broyles?  My guess is you weren't around through the 60s when we were elite.

You guessed wrong. You ever see Lance Alworth play for the Hogs in person?  I have
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KatyHawg68

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