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Author Topic: Up to this point in time, what are your feelings towards Nolan Richardson?  (Read 5941 times)

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FineAsSwine

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Dude you need to wakes up then because you arenít the only one to live or have lived in Fayetteville. Also a sports popularity has NOTHING to do with how great a coach is or isnít. Just because some fans might trade a number of titles from a sport they have little interest in for one they do have interest in doesnít make a difference in coaching greatness. The number of fans of a sport doesnít matter.


Some great badminton, tiddlywinks and syncronized swimming coaches out there too. Track isn't the only sport no one pays attention to.

Based on the comments in this thread, McConnell is a much better coach than Saban, Wooden, Vince Lombardi and anyone else who hasn't won 40 titles. Who knew? Can't wait for the SEC Storied and ESPN 360 documentaries.

razorback1829


Dude you need to wakes up then because you arenít the only one to live or have lived in Fayetteville. Also a sports popularity has NOTHING to do with how great a coach is or isnít. Just because some fans might trade a number of titles from a sport they have little interest in for one they do have interest in doesnít make a difference in coaching greatness. The number of fans of a sport doesnít matter.

Yes it does. Pressure matters. Completion matters. It all matters.
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MakingPlays


Dude you need to wakes up then because you arenít the only one to live or have lived in Fayetteville. Also a sports popularity has NOTHING to do with how great a coach is or isnít. Just because some fans might trade a number of titles from a sport they have little interest in for one they do have interest in doesnít make a difference in coaching greatness. The number of fans of a sport doesnít matter.

By your logic my dad is a greater coach than Coach Richardson, because he coached me and my friends to 3 T-Ball championships when we were kids.  Popularity, pressure, competition level, absolutely has something to do with how you grade how great a coach is.  As others have stated with all the blue bloods out there in basketball, the cheating that goes on, fan pressure, etc. it's much more of an accomplishment to win a basketball national championship than a track championship.  At a school like Arkansas it's nearly impossible to do, and Coach Richardson got it done. 

rhogcaveman

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Greatest coach in Arkansas basketball history, just got frustrated at the end of his tenure and got fired and STILL goes to all the ballgames and lives here! Great man

^
This! Now name the court after him!
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alohawg


A pioneer coach who took Razorback basketball to the pinnacle, and for that he will always be highly esteemed in my eyes. I just regret that things got off track the way they did after. Yes, it's way overdue to rename the court after the man.

HognitiveDissonance

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It's true that football and men's basketball has the most passionate followers, and the most interest.
It's also true that there are 3 opportunities to win a national title each year(cross country, indoor, outdoors) which dilutes the numbers a little bit.
Track would rank about 4th in the 'importance' of a sport to most schools(behind baseball also).
At some places, like Tenn or UCONN, women's basketball would even rank ahead of track.
There is no question that the prestige of winning a 'Big 3' sport national title is greater and longer-lasting than any track title.
But it's also true that track is a pretty important sport, certainly at the world level(Olympics, etc). It's also the most pure sport, as virtually every other sport is based off running, jumping, and throwing, which is all track is. I like the sport.
At the collegiate level, it's not 'minor' as every college in America fields a track team, even at the juco level. The competition is fierce nationally, and the SEC, like most of its sports, is a cutthroat track league with the conference meets basically serving as a warmup for the national meets as there are usually 8 or 10 teams ranked in the Top 25.

If this were comparing a football or basketball national title versus a track title, there is no comparison. Fball or bball wins.
If this were about comparing, say, 6 or 8 track titles versus one fball or bball title, fball or bbal probably still wins. Or pick a number. Fans would draw the line at different places(how many would you trade?).

But we're comparing 40 in the UA's 4th most important sport versus 1 in a major sport. Even at a young age, I learned 40 > 1.
There is no debate here.

John McDonnell is hands down the greatest coach the UA will probably ever have.

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FineAsSwine

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John McDonnell is hands down the greatest TRACK coach the UA will probably ever have.

I can agree with this.
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FineAsSwine

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It's true that football and men's basketball has the most passionate followers, and the most interest.
It's also true that there are 3 opportunities to win a national title each year(cross country, indoor, outdoors) which dilutes the numbers a little bit.
Track would rank about 4th in the 'importance' of a sport to most schools(behind baseball also).
At some places, like Tenn or UCONN, women's basketball would even rank ahead of track.
There is no question that the prestige of winning a 'Big 3' sport national title is greater and longer-lasting than any track title.
But it's also true that track is a pretty important sport, certainly at the world level(Olympics, etc). It's also the most pure sport, as virtually every other sport is based off running, jumping, and throwing, which is all track is. I like the sport.
At the collegiate level, it's not 'minor' as every college in America fields a track team, even at the juco level. The competition is fierce nationally, and the SEC, like most of its sports, is a cutthroat track league with the conference meets basically serving as a warmup for the national meets as there are usually 8 or 10 teams ranked in the Top 25.

If this were comparing a football or basketball national title versus a track title, there is no comparison. Fball or bball wins.
If this were about comparing, say, 6 or 8 track titles versus one fball or bball title, fball or bbal probably still wins. Or pick a number. Fans would draw the line at different places(how many would you trade?).

But we're comparing 40 in the UA's 4th most important sport versus 1 in a major sport. Even at a young age, I learned 40 > 1.
There is no debate here.

John McDonnell is hands down the greatest coach the UA will probably ever have.


If McDonnell did what he did at Arkansas at a different school such as Alabama, Duke, Kansas or UCLA, would he be a greater coach (in your mind)  than Paul "Bear" Bryant, Nick Saban, Mike Kzryzewski, Bill Self or John Wooden?


I'll hang up and listen.

Dan42AR


I have known Nolan for almost 30 years. Great basketball coach, better person. Truly loves people. I could tell you many stories of things that he has done to help others, never seeking anything, not even letting me tell others.

He was screwed over by the UofA, no doubt. I don't know if it was racism but I know it was wrong how he was treated.

He still lives in Fayetteville and loves his farm.

One last thing, because of the way he and Miss Rosie have treated others, what I have seen them do, it changed me many years ago. I can honestly say that decisions I made which changed the direction of my life and lead me to where I am today were because of them. I don't think that they know this, and I have often thought of talking to him and letting him how exactly what influence he made in my life and therefore in others lives (which I influenced).

Cant say enough about him.

You should have that talk with them. I had a talk like that with a man that really helped me along when I started my profession a few years ago. Sadly he passed a few months after I made the trip to see him but his daughter has told me several times how much it meant to him for me to come see him and tell him thank you for all of his assistance back then.
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razorback1829


It's true that football and men's basketball has the most passionate followers, and the most interest.
It's also true that there are 3 opportunities to win a national title each year(cross country, indoor, outdoors) which dilutes the numbers a little bit.
Track would rank about 4th in the 'importance' of a sport to most schools(behind baseball also).
At some places, like Tenn or UCONN, women's basketball would even rank ahead of track.
There is no question that the prestige of winning a 'Big 3' sport national title is greater and longer-lasting than any track title.
But it's also true that track is a pretty important sport, certainly at the world level(Olympics, etc). It's also the most pure sport, as virtually every other sport is based off running, jumping, and throwing, which is all track is. I like the sport.
At the collegiate level, it's not 'minor' as every college in America fields a track team, even at the juco level. The competition is fierce nationally, and the SEC, like most of its sports, is a cutthroat track league with the conference meets basically serving as a warmup for the national meets as there are usually 8 or 10 teams ranked in the Top 25.

If this were comparing a football or basketball national title versus a track title, there is no comparison. Fball or bball wins.
If this were about comparing, say, 6 or 8 track titles versus one fball or bball title, fball or bbal probably still wins. Or pick a number. Fans would draw the line at different places(how many would you trade?).

But we're comparing 40 in the UA's 4th most important sport versus 1 in a major sport. Even at a young age, I learned 40 > 1.
There is no debate here.

John McDonnell is hands down the greatest coach the UA will probably ever have.

Cutthroat track league LOL LOL LOL 🤣🤣
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MakingPlays



If McDonnell did what he did at Arkansas at a different school such as Alabama, Duke, Kansas or UCLA, would he be a greater coach (in your mind)  than Paul "Bear" Bryant, Nick Saban, Mike Kzryzewski, Bill Self or John Wooden?


I'll hang up and listen.

I can't wait to hear the spin on this one as well. 

Also, I have another example I would like HognitiveDissonance to explain to me. Stipe Miocic, a UFC Fighter from Cleveland, won the heavy weight title in 2016, and successfully defended the title 3 times.  That's the equivalent of winning 4 championships.   Lebron James won 1 Championship for Cleveland in 2016 (2 in Miami).  Who's accomplished more in Cleveland?  And who will be known as the best athlete to ever represent Cleveland?
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DLUXHOG

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I get it... but the mere ridiculousness of the number McD won proves my point. Itís much harder and a bigger achievement in basketball, which is why the 94 championship will be forever hailed. The individualized aspect of track also makes it less significant.

If winning 40+ NC in Track and Field is so easy, please tell me why,...  why, numerous other Track & Field coaches haven't matched McDonnell's success at
A R K A N S A S...

razorback1829


If winning 40+ NC in Track and Field is so easy, please tell me why,...  why, numerous other Track & Field coaches haven't matched McDonnell's success at
A R K A N S A S...

Different sports, different pressure, different level of competition. Much more difficult in college basketball. Which is why itís the more popular sport. Not saying 40 plus NC isnít hard but track is individualized. Basketball is a real team sport.
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HognitiveDissonance

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If McDonnell did what he did at Arkansas at a different school such as Alabama, Duke, Kansas or UCLA, would he be a greater coach (in your mind)  than Paul "Bear" Bryant, Nick Saban, Mike Kzryzewski, Bill Self or John Wooden?


I'll hang up and listen.
I believe, with 40 national championships, that yes, he should be considered in the conversation for 'greatest NCAA coach of all time'. It's a shame he doesn't get more recognition. Part of that is because he was a low-key guy who didn't seek publicity. Part of that is because it's Arkansas. He just won. A lot.

Bryant: 6 national titles in football
K: 4 in basketball
Saban: 5 national titles in football
Wooden: 12 (?) in basketball
Self: 1 in basketball

Self doesn't belong in this group, with 'only' one. I say that not disparagely, but still, one is one.
The others have numerous titles.
As I said, one track title doesn't equal one major sport title. There is no correlation.
But we're not talking one...we're talking 40.

In my mind, among your list, factoring everything in, if you wanted to rank Wooden ahead, I can see that. I know it's UCLA and Sam Gilbert buying players and all that stuff, but still, 12 titles is impressive. The others are neck and neck with McDonnell in my book. Bryant with 6 and Saban with 5...you can make an argument 5 or 6 in a major sport > 40 in track.

Bottom line, he deserves to be in that conversation of all-time greats.

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HognitiveDissonance

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Cutthroat track league LOL LOL LOL 🤣🤣
SEC track over the past 25 years has been more competitive than SEC basketball. Ponder that for a while.

Go back and look at each year and count the number of ranked teams.
Virtually every year there 8 to 10 teams in the Top 25 and routinely 3 to 5 in the Top 10 teams in the country.
In fact, of all the sports, SEC men's basketball has had the fewest number of ranked teams over that time span. Which is why I tend to get more frustrated with basketball...the competition is good, but it doesn't usually compare to nearly every other sport the UA competes in the SEC. This year was a peak, and an exception to the rule, with 8 teams in the NCAAs. Most years that is not the case.

So go do your research and get back to me when you're done.
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HognitiveDissonance

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I can't wait to hear the spin on this one as well. 

Also, I have another example I would like HognitiveDissonance to explain to me. Stipe Miocic, a UFC Fighter from Cleveland, won the heavy weight title in 2016, and successfully defended the title 3 times.  That's the equivalent of winning 4 championships.   Lebron James won 1 Championship for Cleveland in 2016 (2 in Miami).  Who's accomplished more in Cleveland?  And who will be known as the best athlete to ever represent Cleveland?
That's a dumb analogy.

So you're comparing, according to your logic, '4' titles versus Lebron's 3 titles in basketball. There is no comparison: Lebron plays a major sport, 3 compared to 4, so it's easily Lebron. Why are you comparing 3 to 4?

If the other guy had won 40 titles, now it's a different discussion and even though it's a 'lesser' sport the numbers become impossible to ignore.

Come up with something better.
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HognitiveDissonance

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If winning 40+ NC in Track and Field is so easy, please tell me why,...  why, numerous other Track & Field coaches haven't matched McDonnell's success at
A R K A N S A S...
Arkansas has won one national title in track since McDonnell left: the 2013 Indoor title (in Fayetteville, I was there). Actually had my picture taken with McDonnell that night, which he was gracious to do.

So, yes, it's obviously not easy to do. He just made it look easy.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Different sports, different pressure, different level of competition. Much more difficult in college basketball. Which is why itís the more popular sport. Not saying 40 plus NC isnít hard but track is individualized. Basketball is a real team sport.
Again, no one is saying it's 1-to-1 with track and basketball. It's not.
You just can't compare 40 to 1.

Besides, what you're saying simply isn't true. They each compete in their events individually(except relays), but they score points as a team. It is a team event; the trophies go to teams. McDonnell's greatest gift was knowing how to get the most out of everyone, individually, for the good of the team. He knew how to push each person's buttons. If you followed Ark track over the years, you would see a different guy step up and score points for the team, that was often unexpected. He had that gift.
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FineAsSwine

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I believe, with 40 national championships, that yes, he should be considered in the conversation for 'greatest NCAA coach of all time'. It's a shame he doesn't get more recognition. Part of that is because he was a low-key guy who didn't seek publicity. Part of that is because it's Arkansas. He just won. A lot.

Bryant: 6 national titles in football
K: 4 in basketball
Saban: 5 national titles in football
Wooden: 12 (?) in basketball
Self: 1 in basketball

Self doesn't belong in this group, with 'only' one. I say that not disparagely, but still, one is one.
The others have numerous titles.
As I said, one track title doesn't equal one major sport title. There is no correlation.
But we're not talking one...we're talking 40.

In my mind, among your list, factoring everything in, if you wanted to rank Wooden ahead, I can see that. I know it's UCLA and Sam Gilbert buying players and all that stuff, but still, 12 titles is impressive. The others are neck and neck with McDonnell in my book. Bryant with 6 and Saban with 5...you can make an argument 5 or 6 in a major sport > 40 in track.

Bottom line, he deserves to be in that conversation of all-time greats.

Not unless McDonnell won those championships were in football or basketball. Sell those dreams elsewhere. The only people buying that on here are those who want to throw shade on Coach Richardson's legacy and accomplishments at Arkansas.
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redneckfriend

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Not unless McDonnell won those championships were in football or basketball. Sell those dreams elsewhere. The only people buying that on here are those who want to throw shade on Coach Richardson's legacy and accomplishments at Arkansas.


I strongly disagree with that. Richardson was a great coach for more reasons than his one championship. He did more with less at Arkansas- which is usually the mark of a great coach (e.g. Petrino) so there is no reason his legacy is disparaged by acknowledging that what McDonnell did was extraordinary- and I mean truly extraordinary - like Pat Summitt at Tennessee.

Most Arkansas fans couldn't care less about track and field or women's basketball and for that reason the accomplishments of coaches in those kinds of sports are overlooked and discounted. You take nothing away from what Richardson did in a high profile sport like basketball by giving McDonnell his rightful due.
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FineAsSwine

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Pat Henry is the current head coach of the track and field team at T A&M. He has 31 national championships to McDonnell's 40. Is this guy the second best college coach of all time in any sport?

From Wikipedia:

In 2004, he was hired by Texas A&M as head track and field coach. In Henry's tenure at Texas A&M, his teams have finished in the top ten at NCAA meets 14 times and won eight Big 12 titles, earning Henry the title of Big 12 Coach of the Year eight times. In 2009, 2010 and 2011 he won both the men's and women's outdoor national titles.
Henry is the only coach in NCAA history to win both men's and women's track and field national titles in the same year; he has accomplished the feat five times with two different programs (LSU in 1989 and 1990 and Texas A&M in 2009, 2010 and 2011).


Using the McDonnell standard, this guy is better than any coach in Arkansas history (other than McDnnell himself). He would also rank higher than any football or basketball coach in NCAA history (using logic from posters in this thread). Go (to hell) Aggies!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 12:37:26 pm by FineAsSwine »
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DLUXHOG

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Arkansas has won one national title in track since McDonnell left: the 2013 Indoor title (in Fayetteville, I was there). Actually had my picture taken with McDonnell that night, which he was gracious to do.

So, yes, it's obviously not easy to do. He just made it look easy.

And...... still no one has answered my post...Ēif winning 40+ NCs is so simple, please name another coach or school who has done so in any sportĒ....
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razorback1829


And...... still no one has answered my post...Ēif winning 40+ NCs is so simple, please name another coach or school who has done so in any sportĒ....

The point is, track national championships are not remotely as hard to win as basketball. That really all. Itís that simple. Tell me how itís not. Iíll listen.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Not unless McDonnell won those championships were in football or basketball. Sell those dreams elsewhere. The only people buying that on here are those who want to throw shade on Coach Richardson's legacy and accomplishments at Arkansas.
You're the one disparaging other coaches and throwing shade, in your Nolan-centric universe.
Other people exist on the planet, you know, besides Nolan Richardson.
Nolan deserves a lot of praise. He's just not the greatest coach in UA sports history.
If you want to say he's your favorite coach, that's fine, I won't get in your way.

McDonnell is clearly #1 to me.
The real debate is who is #2.
But, speaking of throwing shade, why are you throwing shade on not only McDonnell, but Frank Broyles?
(We're talking strictly coaching accomplishments here. Obviously if discussing 'important UA sports figures', Broyles wins in a landslide. But this is strictly coaching)
Broyles's career as an AD actually overshadows his coaching career, which is unfortunate, because the coaching was very good.
He also won a national championship, like Nolan. Have we forgotten?
He also had his program, in a 10-year stretch, among the top programs in the country; Ark was the 3rd winningest program in college football in the 60s(similar to Nolan's 10 years in the 90s), behind only Texas and Alabama. Broyles had Arkansas football rolling for a decade.

Beyond McDonnell, I would be hard-pressed to make a pick for #2. That's a tough one.
 
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HognitiveDissonance

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Pat Henry is the current head coach of the track and field team at T A&M. He has 31 national championships to McDonnell's 40. Is this guy the second best college coach of all time in any sport?

From Wikipedia:

In 2004, he was hired by Texas A&M as head track and field coach. In Henry's tenure at Texas A&M, his teams have finished in the top ten at NCAA meets 14 times and won eight Big 12 titles, earning Henry the title of Big 12 Coach of the Year eight times. In 2009, 2010 and 2011 he won both the men's and women's outdoor national titles.
Henry is the only coach in NCAA history to win both men's and women's track and field national titles in the same year; he has accomplished the feat five times with two different programs (LSU in 1989 and 1990 and Texas A&M in 2009, 2010 and 2011).


Using the McDonnell standard, this guy is better than any coach in Arkansas history (other than McDnnell himself). He would also rank higher than any football or basketball coach in NCAA history (using logic from posters in this thread). Go (to hell) Aggies!
I'm aware of Pat Henry. He's had a great career. It's unique in coaching both men and women.
Yes, those stats are impressive. He deserves to be in the conversation when discussing great NCAA coaches.
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HognitiveDissonance

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The point is, track national championships are not remotely as hard to win as basketball. That really all. Itís that simple. Tell me how itís not. Iíll listen.
So why isn't Arkansas still winning national titles in Track if it's so easy?
Incredible athletes and future Olympians are all over the SEC...and other places in the country too. Track is very competitive.
Even after Bucknam was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce program, he's won one title. The foundation had long been laid and tradition set. And he's done a good job...he's just not John McDonnell.
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FineAsSwine

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Interesting how no one ever tried to argue that McDonnell was the best coach in NCAA history until someone started a thread that garnered favorable commentary about Nolan.  ;D

razorback1829


Interesting how no one ever tried to argue that McDonnell was the best coach in NCAA history until someone started a thread that garnered favorable commentary about Nolan.  ;D

Yup. And they think people canít see it.
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HiggiePiggy

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Arkansas has won one national title in track since McDonnell left: the 2013 Indoor title (in Fayetteville, I was there). Actually had my picture taken with McDonnell that night, which he was gracious to do.

So, yes, it's obviously not easy to do. He just made it look easy.

That is the part. Your last sentence.  He made it look easy.  That is what Great coaches do. Look at Saban right now.  He built a monster and it looks easy for Alabama to be in the playoffs every year.  We talk about how tough conferences are.  In basketball itís not anywhere near as tough as the other sports in the SEC.  itís getting there, but still has a ways to go to match up to most of the other sports in the SEC. 
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FineAsSwine

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Watching Nolan go toe to toe with the refs was just as entertaining as the game on the floor. He would get up slowly from the bench and stand just outside of the coaching box while staring down a particular ref he didn't agree with or sometimes he would let loose with a few choice words that reverberated over the noise of the crowd and grated on the refs ears.

Nolan took no guff from anyone. I loved his fiery competitive side and how it showed in the attitude of our team. They felt like they were badass. Just like their coach. We had a team of fighters who; win, lose or draw, left it all on the court. I felt like we took a back seat to no program out there and you could feel it in the way our players fought and scrapped to win.

Nolan was one of a kind in his personal life and in his chosen profession. It was a helluva ride with a helluva man. Nolan Richardson Court, it's long overdue.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Interesting how no one ever tried to argue that McDonnell was the best coach in NCAA history until someone started a thread that garnered favorable commentary about Nolan.  ;D
Because the thread veered off into that direction, Mr. Wizard. Aren't others entitled to give their professional opinion of 'who is the greatest coach in UA history?' Or are they obligated to agree with you? Please stop with the persecution complex. In my estimated opinion, he is either the 2nd or 3rd best coach in UA history. But because I don't automatically make him #1, the next thing you know I will be labeled a racist. I kid not...I've been reading Jump Ball for years. That's how it goes.

McDonnell has been retired for 10 years now. He doesn't get discussed much at all, except for occasions like this when I will gladly go to bat for him.

You want me to get back to the original 'praise Nolan' thread? Ok. I wish Mike Anderson was as good of a coach as Nolan Richardson. But I've said that before too, so nothing new there either.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Yup. And they think people canít see it.
Yup, I see it. Just re-name the school the University of Nolan Richardson. That's all about a dozen of you care about anyway. And by extension, M Anderson. He's just a stunt double for Nolan anyway. Next best thing. Some of you, luckily a small number, I think don't even care about the Razorbacks that much. It's a one-track mind.

That's the problem I have. That singular focus.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Speaking of Nolan, 2019 will mark the 25th anniversary of the 1994 championship team.
Surely something will be planned. Probably is already in the works.
25 is a big number, for whatever reason(marriages, sports, etc) to commemorate milestones, and something needs to be done.

I was at the 15th anniversary event in 2009. Played Georgia that day.
As I recall, nearly all of the team members showed up.
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FineAsSwine

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Because the thread veered off into that direction, Mr. Wizard. Aren't others entitled to give their professional opinion of 'who is the greatest coach in UA history?' Or are they obligated to agree with you? Please stop with the persecution complex. In my estimated opinion, he is either the 2nd or 3rd best coach in UA history. But because I don't automatically make him #1, the next thing you know I will be labeled a racist. I kid not...I've been reading Jump Ball for years. That's how it goes.

McDonnell has been retired for 10 years now. He doesn't get discussed much at all, except for occasions like this when I will gladly go to bat for him.

You want me to get back to the original 'praise Nolan' thread? Ok. I wish Mike Anderson was as good of a coach as Nolan Richardson. But I've said that before too, so nothing new there either.

I donít care what you do. Bash away.
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FineAsSwine

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Yup, I see it. Just re-name the school the University of Nolan Richardson. That's all about a dozen of you care about anyway. And by extension, M Anderson. He's just a stunt double for Nolan anyway. Next best thing. Some of you, luckily a small number, I think don't even care about the Razorbacks that much. It's a one-track mind.

That's the problem I have. That singular focus.

You hate it cause I like Nolan. So sad. Not sure why that bothers you so much.
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ShadowHawg

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Dude you need to wakes up then because you arenít the only one to live or have lived in Fayetteville. Also a sports popularity has NOTHING to do with how great a coach is or isnít. Just because some fans might trade a number of titles from a sport they have little interest in for one they do have interest in doesnít make a difference in coaching greatness. The number of fans of a sport doesnít matter.

McDonald played the system. He did it with distance runners he would bring over from Europe. They were pros already when he got them so other than gathering them together he didnít even develop them.

No one nationally cares about what he did here either. Thatís what makes winning a natty fun, when a lot of other people want what it also.

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MakingPlays


That's a dumb analogy.

So you're comparing, according to your logic, '4' titles versus Lebron's 3 titles in basketball. There is no comparison: Lebron plays a major sport, 3 compared to 4, so it's easily Lebron. Why are you comparing 3 to 4?

If the other guy had won 40 titles, now it's a different discussion and even though it's a 'lesser' sport the numbers become impossible to ignore.

Come up with something better.

Is there a link I can find these rules at?  Or are you just making up stuff as you go?  This argument you're trying to make it probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.    As another poster mentioned this is literally the only thread on this entire board that's even discussing track and field.  The difference in the amount of pressure to win a National Championship in basketball to winning one in track and field is not even in the same universe. 

How many Presidents are going to the track meets?  That's the type of pressure Nolan was under, He had the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world, attending his games.  He had him and the whole nation watching, the pressure can literally get no higher than that, and he delivered.  The fact that people have to explain the difference to you is beyond astounding to me.
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FineAsSwine

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Is there a link I can find these rules at?  Or are you just making up stuff as you go?  This argument you're trying to make it probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.    As another poster mentioned this is literally the only thread on this entire board that's even discussing track and field.  The difference in the amount of pressure to win a National Championship in basketball to winning one in track and field is not even in the same universe. 

How many Presidents are going to the track meets?  That's the type of pressure Nolan was under, He had the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world, attending his games.  He had him and the whole nation watching, the pressure can literally get no higher than that, and he delivered.  The fact that people have to explain the difference to you is beyond astounding to me.

Nolan's 1 National Championship has garnered more publicity for the University of Arkansas than all 40 of John McDonnell's track championships combined.
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razorback1829


Nolan's 1 National Championship has garnered more publicity for the University of Arkansas than all 40 of John McDonnell's track championships combined.

These are facts.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Is there a link I can find these rules at?  Or are you just making up stuff as you go?  This argument you're trying to make it probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.    As another poster mentioned this is literally the only thread on this entire board that's even discussing track and field.  The difference in the amount of pressure to win a National Championship in basketball to winning one in track and field is not even in the same universe. 

How many Presidents are going to the track meets?  That's the type of pressure Nolan was under, He had the President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world, attending his games.  He had him and the whole nation watching, the pressure can literally get no higher than that, and he delivered.  The fact that people have to explain the difference to you is beyond astounding to me.
And it's astounding to me that someone has to explain that 1 < 40.

I can assure you Bill Clinton knows all about John McDonnell. In fact, he knows all things Razorbacks.

HognitiveDissonance

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You hate it cause I like Nolan. So sad. Not sure why that bothers you so much.
I do too...I'm just not fixated on him.

HognitiveDissonance

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McDonald played the system. He did it with distance runners he would bring over from Europe. They were pros already when he got them so other than gathering them together he didnít even develop them.

No one nationally cares about what he did here either. Thatís what makes winning a natty fun, when a lot of other people want what it also.
It's McDonnell, not McDonald, as in the farm.

Did Nolan really 'develop' Corliss Williamson? No. He was already a Top 3 national recruit in high school. He just rode that horse all the way to Charlotte.
Same with Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, et al. McDonald's All-Americans. Rode those guys to the Final 4
Sounds the same...'playing the system'.
And that is no way a critique. That's how the game is played. If you want to compete nationally, you have to bring in the hosses. Nolan did that for about 10 years as well as anybody in the country. I miss those days so bad. You simply can not compete for titles if you don't bring in the players. That's true of any school in America. Well, we had those hosses for a while. Now we can't do it...and I've made this point a dozen times. MA simple doesn't recruit as well as Nolan did for a while.

To your other point, I agree. Not many people keep up with Track. But I never said that. All I said was it's hard to ignore 40 titles, and I also insist those titles were not easy to win as there is a lot of competition nationally for those trophies.

HognitiveDissonance

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Nolan's 1 National Championship has garnered more publicity for the University of Arkansas than all 40 of John McDonnell's track championships combined.
I wouldn't argue that at all.
But it doesn't change anything I said about McDonnell being a more accomplished coach.
Same thing with Broyles. Plenty of people nationally know all about him...because he was a football coach. But he's still not as accomplished as McDonnell. Heck, I promise you more people nationally know who Bret Bielema is than John McDonnell...but McDonnell is still the better coach. Notoriety does not equal superiority.

thebignasty

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Dunno why this became a place for track fans to air insecurities.





As to the OP, I love Nolan.
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HogBreath


when a lot of other people want what it also.


Translation please...cannot quite grasp this jibberish, lol.
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MakingPlays


And it's astounding to me that someone has to explain that 1 < 40.

I can assure you Bill Clinton knows all about John McDonnell. In fact, he knows all things Razorbacks.


I don't know how else to explain to you how much different the pressure and expectations are in a major sport like basketball and football, you've literally ignored every logical post  people have tried to share with you and just come back with made up alternative facts that you have no way of proving and keep just saying 1<40 in every post with absolutely no context. 

I would love a message board with a fact checker. That would be so awesome, this new alternative fact era is so weird to me, people just say whatever they want these days because they know they don't have to prove anything they say, they can just say that's what I believe and people leave it at that.  Like right now, if a board had a fact checker, you would be required to provide evidence that Bill Clinton actually cared about the track team and John McDonnell's accomplishments as a track coach.  Because if you google it (which I have) absolutely nothing comes up with John McDonnell, Razorback Track Team, and Bill Clinton together not a single picture, sentence, or even a mention of them ever talking to each other.  However, if I google Bill Clinton, Razorback Basketball, and Nolan Richardson tons of stuff pop up, several pictures, articles on their relationships, and interviews with Nolan talking about Clinton. 
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razorback1829


And it's astounding to me that someone has to explain that 1 < 40.

I can assure you Bill Clinton knows all about John McDonnell. In fact, he knows all things Razorbacks.

I donít see any movies, documentaries, books, or ESPN specials EVER on John McDonnell. I bet Bill Clinton never went to one track meet. Youíre just being foolish and naive at this point. Face it, basketball is 40 times the exposure of track, which is why itís harder and that ONE championship trumps all the track and field combined.

Which is why Nolan Richardson deserves a statue, the court named after him, and the distinct title of GOAT at Arkansas. Go to the track and field forum... oh wait a minute...
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ArkansasI


Regardless of one's feelings about Nolan, the University of Arkansas would benefit from a bronze statue and his story prominently displayed inside or outside of Bud Walton Arena.  A commemoration of African-American success on the Hill.
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NinoHogUNIA

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Regardless of one's feelings about Nolan, the University of Arkansas would benefit from a bronze statue and his story prominently displayed inside or outside of Bud Walton Arena.  A commemoration of African-American success on the Hill.

That's why it won't happen for a long time. 

It is what it is.
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FineAsSwine

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I wouldn't argue that at all.
But it doesn't change anything I said about McDonnell being a more accomplished coach.
Same thing with Broyles. Plenty of people nationally know all about him...because he was a football coach. But he's still not as accomplished as McDonnell. Heck, I promise you more people nationally know who Bret Bielema is than John McDonnell...but McDonnell is still the better coach. Notoriety does not equal superiority.

Track is a "team sport" only in the sense that all the athletes compete on the same track or in the same arena. Basically you have a lot of individuals trying to achieve the best time over a certain distance or jump farther or higher or throw a heavy weight or javelin farther than someone else.

Basketball, football and baseball coaches make adjustments based on the flow of the game and they do these things in real time. Deciding when to bunt, when to blitz the quarterback or switching from zone to man are all part of the ebb and flow of a contest that requires "coaching".

Track is pretty much individual instruction and training prior to a meet. The track coach doesn't draw up a play or make adjustments in a meet based on what the other team is doing. I've never seen a track coach call a time out in the middle of a meet so he could draw up a play or make the kind of adjustments that most people consider "coaching".

All things considered, it is much, much harder to win a title as a coach of a baseball, football or basketball team because you are having to get people to blend their individual talents and become 1 unit. It's not like you can send your best post player to go out and play one on one against the other teams big guy and collect a national championship based on that individual battle in that one event like you can in track.

Funny how no one has ever said McDonnell was the greatest coach in NCAA history until you dropped that bombshell in this thread.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 12:06:32 pm by FineAsSwine »
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