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Author Topic: Venting about last year thread  (Read 1285 times)

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Hawg Red

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2018, 02:31:05 pm »

it was the same gloom and doom before last season from you same posters, bemoaning the loss of watkins, hannahs, and kingsley. and then we came out and were even better than the year prior. we'll contend again for the sec and make the tourney again. it'll take some time for you to get used to us making the tourney nearly every year, but eventually you'll understand where we're at. we're knocking on the door again. not quite where we want to be but obvious progress has been made in our program. the next step is to win the SEC and make a deep tourney run, that should help us tremendously in recruiting.

I had us at 19-22 wins going into the SEC tournament. That's a matter of record on this forum. Last time I checked we won 21 in the regular season and #nailedit.

Keep trying to invent stuff.
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hawgball40

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2018, 02:40:42 pm »

I had us at 19-22 wins going into the SEC tournament. That's a matter of record on this forum. Last time I checked we won 21 in the regular season and #nailedit.

Keep trying to invent stuff.
I'm afraid you've missed the forest for the trees. You may have called it, and if so that's great, but your recollection is faulty, as there was most definitely a significant portion of the board predicting we wouldn't even make the NIT. The point was there was gloom and doom about last years team, and then we made the tourney again after competing for the SEC. We are returning a lottery pick at center and bringing in alot of talent. I think we'll be good enough to make the tourney again, but only time will tell.
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razorback1829

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2018, 02:43:32 pm »

I'll take this one.  The Mizzou program had not collapsed yet.  The team did in his final season there.  They managed to get it together the next season but the scholarship imbalance setup contributed to the soon to come collapse.  Haith totally mismanaged the situation Mike setup.  And now we have similar scholarship imbalance issues reoccurring here with Anderson. 

Mike hasn't stopped the time extending since we were relevant.  Wasn't that what he was hired to do?

Actually, he had Otto Porter ready to come to campus that next year, and we wouldíve retained another guard (Krecklow) that left as well. Was clearly his Final Four team he passed to come back to Arkansas. And college basketball landscape has evolved so much since since 2011. One season. Try again.
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razorback1829

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2018, 02:44:49 pm »

they had size and shooting on the perimeter and played good fundamental defense. conversely,w e were very small at guard and the wing. the pundits all called the upset, because everyone knew how ridiculously underseeded butler was. that was a team full of tough, fundamentally sound big guys. We were a team of a few good athletes with poor fundamentals and lack of strength.

You fundamental people kill me. Fundamentals didnít get us beat by Butler lmao.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2018, 02:46:08 pm »

Actually, he had Otto Porter ready to come to campus that next year, and we wouldíve retained another guard (Krecklow) that left as well. Was clearly his Final Four team he passed to come back to Arkansas. And college basketball landscape has evolved so much since since 2011. One season. Try again.

Maybe Otto would have signed with Mizzou.  And IF he could have gotten the team back mentally.  Too bad he didn't stay so we could have seen.  Then we could have seen him with his "recruiting prowess" rebuild the roster nearly completely. 

Try what again? 
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Hawg Red

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2018, 02:47:46 pm »

Again you show your true ignorance. Leadership is earned, itís not passed on from class to class. Doesnít matter if itís a senior, or freshman, itís about who steps up in that time and takes the mantle. Yea we are young, doesnít mean we will be devoid leadership.

I haven't said we'll be devoid of leadership. I've said I'm afraid we will be. There is a difference. Most leaders are juniors and seniors. You can talk about exceptional cases where freshmen or sophomores are leading teams, but that's just poor process to me. The odds of a team having success without veteran/upperclassman leadership are lowered than if they do for OBVIOUS reasons.

Hawg Red

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2018, 02:52:32 pm »

You fundamental people kill me. Fundamentals didnít get us beat by Butler lmao.

There we go. Some consistency.
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razorback1829

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2018, 02:59:23 pm »

I haven't said we'll be devoid of leadership. I've said I'm afraid we will be. There is a difference. Most leaders are juniors and seniors. You can talk about exceptional cases where freshmen or sophomores are leading teams, but that's just poor process to me. The odds of a team having success without veteran/upperclassman leadership are lowered than if they do for OBVIOUS reasons.

I think for a national title type year, it takes a special mixture of talent, leadership and experience. Thatís usually 3 teams when itís all said and done. Also add some luck in thwre. Sometimes experience isnít there. But just because thatís the way itís always been talked about, doesnít make it so. Whose to say theyíll even play or be factors as seniors? Different teams are built different ways. Every year.
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Hawg Red

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2018, 03:02:52 pm »

I think for a national title type year, it takes a special mixture of talent, leadership and experience. Thatís usually 3 teams when itís all said and done. Also add some luck in thwre. Sometimes experience isnít there. But just because thatís the way itís always been talked about, doesnít make it so. Whose to say theyíll even play or be factors as seniors? Different teams are built different ways. Every year.

The successful ones seem to have seniors and juniors in the rotation. Is it just me? I'm not even talking about National Championship contenders. I'm talking Sweet 16-type teams.
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azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2018, 03:26:47 pm »

The score and the way it happened was indicative of a pattern under Anderson in spotlight games.  Slow starts have been an issue.  It isn't piling on to mention a pattern.  If it were an exception, I could see your point a little more maybe.
What pattern is that?

Spotlight Games:
PK80 vs. Oklahoma - Up 5 at half win by 9
PK80 vs. UNC - Started up 6, back and forth UNC went on a run to go up 11 at half lost by 19
PK80 vs. UCONN - Blowout from start to finish in our favor
@ Houston on the road (First big road game against good team) got blown out due to horrid start you speak of
@MSU (first SEC road game of year) lost by 3, didn't get off to a bad start.
@Bama (game we had to have to be solidly in NCAAT) won by 3
SECT wins over USCe and Florida who had beaten us for idk how many straight years.

Slow starts do happen, but you make it seem like it happened all year under Mike would be far from the truth. But I guess you knew that.

azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2018, 03:28:23 pm »

Funny how most teams' captains are juniors or seniors. But, hey, I guess none of that matters.

I can't believe you're really taking the stance that not having seniors or more than one junior is not a big deal just for the sake of trying to go against me. Is it really that serious?
It's only a big deal if the kids we have can't play. Something I can't answer yet and neither can you. In 5 months I think we both will know for sure just how big of an issue it is.

azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2018, 03:30:15 pm »

I had us at 19-22 wins going into the SEC tournament. That's a matter of record on this forum. Last time I checked we won 21 in the regular season and #nailedit.

Keep trying to invent stuff.
YEah, I think next yea we will win 0-25 games.......I can already tell you I #nailedit

Hawg Red

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2018, 03:31:39 pm »

The successful ones seem to have seniors and juniors in the rotation. Is it just me? I'm not even talking about National Championship contenders. I'm talking Sweet 16-type teams.

Sweet 16
Kentucky: All underclassmen.
Nevada: 3 RS-juniors, 1 RS-senior, 1 senior in top 5 scorers
Gonzaga: 1 RS-senior, RS-junior, 1 senior in top 6 scorers
Texas A&M: 3 juniors in top 6 scorers (plus Duane Wilson who was out for the NCAAs and Morelos as RS-seniors)
West Virginia: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 6 scorers
Purdue: 4 seniors in top 5 scorers
Clemson: 2 RS-juniors, 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers
Syracuse: 1 junior in top 4 scorers

Elite 8
Kansas State: 3 juniors among top 4 scorers (but no senior playing double digit minutes).
Florida State: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers
Texas Tech: 3 seniors in top 5 scorers
Duke: 1 senior in top 5 scorers (but an All-American)

Final 4
Loyola-Chicago: 3 seniors, 2 RS-juniors in top 6 scorers
Kansas: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers

Title Game
Michigan: 1 junior, 1 senior, 1 RS-senior in top 5 scorers
Villanova: 1 junior, 3 RS-juniors in top 6 scorers

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azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2018, 03:32:48 pm »

You fundamental people kill me. Fundamentals didnít get us beat by Butler lmao.
Not to mention we turned the ball over about the least of any team in NCAA. The fundamental argument is dumb bc when people talk fundamentals they talk shooting and passing, and dribbling as big "FUNDAMENTALS" of the game. We shot the ball very well, and we took care of the basketball so our dribbling and passing must have been alright.

azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2018, 03:37:50 pm »

Sweet 16
Kentucky: All underclassmen.
Nevada: 3 RS-juniors, 1 RS-senior, 1 senior in top 5 scorers
Gonzaga: 1 RS-senior, RS-junior, 1 senior in top 6 scorers
Texas A&M: 3 juniors in top 6 scorers (plus Duane Wilson who was out for the NCAAs and Morelos as RS-seniors)
West Virginia: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 6 scorers
Purdue: 4 seniors in top 5 scorers
Clemson: 2 RS-juniors, 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers
Syracuse: 1 junior in top 4 scorers

Elite 8
Kansas State: 3 juniors among top 4 scorers (but no senior playing double digit minutes).
Florida State: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers
Texas Tech: 3 seniors in top 5 scorers
Duke: 1 senior in top 5 scorers (but an All-American)

Final 4
Loyola-Chicago: 3 seniors, 2 RS-juniors in top 6 scorers
Kansas: 2 seniors, 1 junior in top 5 scorers

Title Game
Michigan: 1 junior, 1 senior, 1 RS-senior in top 5 scorers
Villanova: 1 junior, 3 RS-juniors in top 6 scorers
IF you go back you'll see previous years were dominated by underclassmen. Also some of the teams you highlighted as having "seniors" their best players were incoming freshmen and the seniors hardly played and were not considered "leaders".

azhog10

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2018, 03:40:12 pm »

*Shrugs*

Sorry I was as negative as many would like to say I was and I pegged our win total in a 4-win window (any total of which would have had us at least in contention for a NCAA bid).
Didn't say you were negative. Just don't think I'd brag to say I nailed something when I gave myself a cushion of four games that put us on the bubble in terms of # of wins needed to make the NCAAT. 19-22 pretty will sum up almost any year including the one coming up. Only two seasons did Mike fail to hit at least 19 wins......

Atlhogfan1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2018, 03:52:40 pm »

What pattern is that?

Spotlight Games:
PK80 vs. Oklahoma - Up 5 at half win by 9
PK80 vs. UNC - Started up 6, back and forth UNC went on a run to go up 11 at half lost by 19
PK80 vs. UCONN - Blowout from start to finish in our favor
@ Houston on the road (First big road game against good team) got blown out due to horrid start you speak of
@MSU (first SEC road game of year) lost by 3, didn't get off to a bad start.
@Bama (game we had to have to be solidly in NCAAT) won by 3
SECT wins over USCe and Florida who had beaten us for idk how many straight years.

Slow starts do happen, but you make it seem like it happened all year under Mike would be far from the truth. But I guess you knew that.

No I didn't make it sound like it happened all year.  It has been a pattern since 2014.  I guess you don't know that?  Or choosing to ignore it.

What an absolute laughable joke you bring up MSU and Bama as spotlight games.  But anyway, here are the games which have created a pattern of Anderson's Arkansas teams falling flat on their face when anyone other than our fan base and the other team's may be paying attention:

2013 - Played one ranked team in non conference.  10 point loss to Gonzaga on a neutral court.
2014 NIT Cal 11 point loss after a horrid start.  Lost to Cal by 8 in Maui earlier in the season.

2014-15:  The "great" Anderson season so far.  The team had few chances against really good teams and failed.
Lost at Iowa St by 18 in a game where we trailed by much more.  Another horrid first half.
Played one other non conference power conference opponent and lost at Clemson.
Lost by 17 and 15 to UK.
Lost to UNC in NCAAT.

2016:  Played 3 power conf non conf teams in the pre conference portion of the schedule and lost to all 3.  GT by 10, Stanford and Wake.  Beat TT in OT at home in the B12 Ch.

2017:  Lost by 14 at Minnesota in a game that wasn't that close.  Lost to UK by 26 and 17(embarrassing behavior on the court while getting ass kicked again).  Lost by 28 to Ok St.  Did manage to beat Texas and SH and finally played a team like UNC competitive to the end. 

2018:  Good win over OU.  A rarity under Anderson for us.  Lost by 19 as you said to UNC and then beat an awful UConn team which gained no recognition or respect.  Houston went as normal for us.  Next opportunity for someone to pay attention to us outside of our fan base was Ok St and we survived them when they were extremely shorthanded.  Guess I should add the 18pt loss to Tenn in the SECT and 17pt loss to Butler to end the season.  Normal results for Anderson Arkansas teams so far. 

Swinesong1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2018, 03:53:56 pm »

I really am looking forward to ANY reports on the newcomers.  Could yíall take your other agendas elsewhere and stop derailing informative threads like this?

Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2018, 04:02:39 pm »

I really am looking forward to ANY reports on the newcomers.  Could yíall take your other agendas elsewhere and stop derailing informative threads like this?

Exactly.
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hawgball40

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2018, 04:26:59 pm »

No I didn't make it sound like it happened all year.  It has been a pattern since 2014.  I guess you don't know that?  Or choosing to ignore it.

What an absolute laughable joke you bring up MSU and Bama as spotlight games.  But anyway, here are the games which have created a pattern of Anderson's Arkansas teams falling flat on their face when anyone other than our fan base and the other team's may be paying attention:

2013 - Played one ranked team in non conference.  10 point loss to Gonzaga on a neutral court.
2014 NIT Cal 11 point loss after a horrid start.  Lost to Cal by 8 in Maui earlier in the season.

2014-15:  The "great" Anderson season so far.  The team had few chances against really good teams and failed.
Lost at Iowa St by 18 in a game where we trailed by much more.  Another horrid first half.
Played one other non conference power conference opponent and lost at Clemson.
Lost by 17 and 15 to UK.
Lost to UNC in NCAAT.

2016:  Played 3 power conf non conf teams in the pre conference portion of the schedule and lost to all 3.  GT by 10, Stanford and Wake.  Beat TT in OT at home in the B12 Ch.

2017:  Lost by 14 at Minnesota in a game that wasn't that close.  Lost to UK by 26 and 17(embarrassing behavior on the court while getting ass kicked again).  Lost by 28 to Ok St.  Did manage to beat Texas and SH and finally played a team like UNC competitive to the end. 

2018:  Good win over OU.  A rarity under Anderson for us.  Lost by 19 as you said to UNC and then beat an awful UConn team which gained no recognition or respect.  Houston went as normal for us.  Next opportunity for someone to pay attention to us outside of our fan base was Ok St and we survived them when they were extremely shorthanded.  Guess I should add the 18pt loss to Tenn in the SECT and 17pt loss to Butler to end the season.  Normal results for Anderson Arkansas teams so far.
we got hosed in that game at minnesota. one of the worst officiated games ive ever seen. the losses to ok st, iowa st and clemson were the real embarassments. The UK losses weren't that bad IMO. I remember bobby put us into position to win at clemson and then the rest of team choked it away, and bobby was screaming and yelling at mike qualls at the end of that game. i like how you left out all the good games we had during those seasons though. seems you only wanted to highlight the negative.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2018, 04:31:05 pm »

we got hosed in that game at minnesota. one of the worst officiated games ive ever seen. the losses to ok st, iowa st and clemson were the real embarassments. The UK losses weren't that bad IMO. I remember bobby put us into position to win at clemson and then the rest of team choked it away, and bobby was screaming and yelling at mike qualls at the end of that game. i like how you left out all the good games we had during those seasons though. seems you only wanted to highlight the negative.

I told you what games I was listing.  This isn't about Bama or MSU or Vandy.  Nobody in the college basketball world pays attention to those outside of us and their fans.  When our program has had its chance for that marquee win under Anderson it has usually failed miserably.  It's a step in getting back to relevancy we have yet to take.  This all goes back to trying to gloss over the Butler loss.  Butler wasn't an isolated happening. 

I listed the wins we had ex: Texas (although they weren't very good), TT, OU.  The number of failures outnumber those. 
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PonderinHog

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2018, 05:24:07 pm »

I told you what games I was listing.  This isn't about Bama or MSU or Vandy.  Nobody in the college basketball world pays attention to those outside of us and their fans.  When our program has had its chance for that marquee win under Anderson it has usually failed miserably.  It's a step in getting back to relevancy we have yet to take.  This all goes back to trying to gloss over the Butler loss.  Butler wasn't an isolated happening. 

I listed the wins we had ex: Texas (although they weren't very good), TT, OU.  The number of failures outnumber those.
But you left out the LSU game when we couldn't hit a layup, much less a jumper.  Hot and not.

Swinesong1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2018, 07:44:28 pm »

This is really irritating!  Can someone with a delete button and balls regain control please?
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Kevin McPherson

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2018, 07:52:54 pm »

This is really irritating!  Can someone with a delete button and balls regain control please?

It's gone on long enough, locking it up now.
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Porked Tongue

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2018, 08:04:18 pm »

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SPAL

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #75 on: July 04, 2018, 09:36:38 pm »

I cleaned up the post of personal attacks.

A couple of things I've noticed. Red didn't violate any rules. He used logic and reason to give his thoughts. Those who disagreed with him turned the thread into a pissing match.

Secondly, although no rules were broken, this is probably not the best thread to bring a negative viewpoint. Let's allow THIS thread to be about the future. Not what happened last year.

So, I'm gonna unlock it and split it into two different posts..Work on trying to have discussion without it becoming personal. This is neither a pro Mike or anti Mike board.
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Arazorbackguy1

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2018, 10:16:08 am »

I've got a number of a guy from Michigan who I coach with. Never watched Arkansas all year, had Butler winning the game. During the game he said we didn't have the depth to compete. Nothing about a coach not having us ready, or this or that.

Obviously he didn't know very much about our team, but he felt our horses didn't have it that day and that the moment was too bright for Gafford that day. Not saying I agree with him but not sure your "perspective" about anyone outside of Arkansas is correct.

You lost me at ďguy from MichiganĒ.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2018, 11:52:38 am »

Not when the program was pretty much dormat in a 20 year stretch. This microwave society is something else. You really have no idea what it takes on this level.
"Microwave society" = 7 years...
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BannerMountainMan

Re: From what Iím hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2018, 11:55:02 am »

"Microwave society" = 7 years...
tourney 3 of 4 years and itís just getting started, after 1 tourney in like 10 itís hard to come back from in a College like Arkansas who has only had success in basketball for a 10 year stretch back in the Golden days.

HF#1

Re: Venting about last year thread
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2018, 11:56:42 am »

My frustration from last year is that the cabinet is empty for this year. Seems like we just went through this when Portis and Qualls left and here we are again. We need to start stacking up classes and keep the cabinet full.
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hawgball40

Re: Venting about last year thread
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2018, 02:08:27 pm »

My frustration from last year is that the cabinet is empty for this year. Seems like we just went through this when Portis and Qualls left and here we are again. We need to start stacking up classes and keep the cabinet full.
the cabinet is not empty, especially when we have potentially the number 1 pick in next years draft coming back. If Gafford adds the required strength, he will absolutely dominate next year.

what do you see in this video? I see a guy who is dominant and has plenty of offensive tools, but needed to add strength. watch out next season, he may end up going #1 overall. he shows hooks, layups, step back j, turn around j, catch and shoot j, and then the monster dunks and great defense. He adds strength and i think you folks will see he is much more polished than arkansas fans think.
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Breems

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Re: Venting about last year thread
« Reply #81 on: July 06, 2018, 06:03:19 pm »

the cabinet is not empty, especially when we have potentially the number 1 pick in next years draft coming back. If Gafford adds the required strength, he will absolutely dominate next year.

what do you see in this video? I see a guy who is dominant and has plenty of offensive tools, but needed to add strength. watch out next season, he may end up going #1 overall. he shows hooks, layups, step back j, turn around j, catch and shoot j, and then the monster dunks and great defense. He adds strength and i think you folks will see he is much more polished than arkansas fans think.

The cabinet has maybe 1 bag of chips in the back corner.

Our backcourt was decimated in the off-season and will be replaced with 100% (3*) freshmen. The frontcourt situation is only slightly better. We have Gafford, Bailey, Gabe, and (3*) freshmen.

I don't even know if a single player on the roster has made a collegiate 3-pointer. Yeesh. Any meaningful success this season will depend on an exceptional performance from the freshmen. Not something I'm going to count on.

My biggest hope is that Gafford remains healthy, improves, and goes high in the draft.
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