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Author Topic: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED  (Read 35048 times)

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TheRazorback500

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #150 on: July 25, 2018, 10:10:58 pm »

Henderson and Chaney should complement Gafford very well, especially later in the season as chemistry is built.
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HOGINTENNESSEE

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #151 on: July 25, 2018, 10:31:15 pm »

Jalen Harris looks like the PG we have been begging MA to get
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The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #152 on: July 26, 2018, 09:35:55 am »

Jalen Harris looks like the PG we have been begging MA to get

Looks like a redshirt year was exactly what he needed. I keep forgetting we will have 3 years of him and Mason Jones (instead of two like normal transfers/jucos).
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BannerMountainMan

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #153 on: July 27, 2018, 03:33:24 pm »

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hogwood

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #154 on: July 28, 2018, 11:04:32 pm »

https://twitter.com/razorbackmbb/status/1021909369259143168  I see Chaney with the freaking sweet throwdown! Looking good guys!!

Who is #0? Is that Sills with a short haircut?

Also thought I saw Ali hit a 3 at the end.
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hogwood

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #155 on: July 28, 2018, 11:05:17 pm »

Jalen Harris looks like the PG we have been begging MA to get

Agree!
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Big Nasty 34

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #156 on: July 29, 2018, 01:21:55 pm »

Who is #0? Is that Sills with a short haircut?

Also thought I saw Ali hit a 3 at the end.

Yes 0 is Sills
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The_Iceman

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MakingPlays

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #158 on: July 30, 2018, 05:25:37 pm »

Look at Mason Jones

https://twitter.com/RazorbackMBB/status/1024036913924251649?s=19

Wow, he looks like he's dropped a ton of weight since his time at Connors, really looks trim now.  Also, was impressed by that brief footage of him showing off his ball handling. 

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HawgsPolo

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BannerMountainMan

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #160 on: July 30, 2018, 10:12:32 pm »

Mason Jones > Darious Hall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CJ jones

The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #161 on: July 31, 2018, 06:49:57 am »

Mason Jones > Darious Hall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CJ jones

Hall is a better all around player than Jones. Much better defensively and rebounding. Hall can also finish at the rim better. Jones is a better shooter.
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hogwood

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #162 on: July 31, 2018, 07:17:28 am »

Hall is a better all around player than Jones. Much better defensively and rebounding. Hall can also finish at the rim better. Jones is a better shooter.

The differences seem negligible. And if Hall was a leper in the locker room, then Jones is an obvious upgrade.
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The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #163 on: July 31, 2018, 08:58:23 am »

The differences seem negligible. And if Hall was a leper in the locker room, then Jones is an obvious upgrade.

You mean being upset that he wasn't playing over Anton Beard? That seems reasonable.

HoopS

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #164 on: July 31, 2018, 09:03:47 am »

You mean being upset that he wasn't playing over Anton Beard? That seems reasonable.
no it doesn稚.
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BannerMountainMan

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #165 on: July 31, 2018, 12:51:15 pm »

You mean being upset that he wasn't playing over Anton Beard? That seems reasonable.
he was a freaking freshman and transferred to DePaul lmaoooooo
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The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #166 on: July 31, 2018, 01:20:12 pm »

he was a freaking freshman and transferred to DePaul lmaoooooo

Hall was a good player, a projected starter, with a bright future. I remember similar negative comments made towards Babb and Whitt when they left....now look at them.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #167 on: July 31, 2018, 02:05:24 pm »

Hall was a good player, a projected starter, with a bright future. I remember similar negative comments made towards Babb and Whitt when they left....now look at them.

Now look at them? Jimmy Whitt Shot 28% from the 3 and 59% from the free throw line last season. Babb played for a team that finished 13-18 last season. I don't think the Razorbacks are hurting at all from the losses of Babb and Whitt.

The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #168 on: July 31, 2018, 02:16:24 pm »

Now look at them? Jimmy Whitt Shot 28% from the 3 and 59% from the free throw line last season. Babb played for a team that finished 13-18 last season. I don't think the Razorbacks are hurting at all from the losses of Babb and Whitt.

You managed to make that comment without mentioning ppg, rpg, apg, or steals. Your biggest negative about Babb was that he played for a bad team that lost their coach to the NBA. What does that have to do with Babb's ability?

Whitt: 33 mins, 10.5 pts, 5.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, 1.8 stls.

Babb: 36 mins, 11.3 pts, 7.0 rebs, 6.8 asts, 1.3 stls.

I would have loved to have those guys on the team last year over a CJ Jones or Anton Beard.

MakingPlays

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #169 on: July 31, 2018, 02:28:55 pm »

You managed to make that comment without mentioning ppg, rpg, apg, or steals. Your biggest negative about Babb was that he played for a bad team that lost their coach to the NBA. What does that have to do with Babb's ability?

Whitt: 33 mins, 10.5 pts, 5.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, 1.8 stls.

Babb: 36 mins, 11.3 pts, 7.0 rebs, 6.8 asts, 1.3 stls.

I would have loved to have those guys on the team last year over a CJ Jones or Anton Beard.

You must didn't watch many SMU games this season.  I watched a few just to see how Whitt was doing.  And Whitt played horribly, he may have the worst shot in the country, and I'm not exaggerating.  Only reason he scored in double figures was by default, his team wasn't very good, and he played a ton of minutes.  Anton Beard would have put up better numbers in the AAC with 33 MPG. And I say this as one of Beard's biggest critics.  And I'm pretty sure CJ Jones would have shot much better and averaged more PPG with 33 MPG in the AAC as well.

Now Babb was pretty good.  I definitely think he could have helped last year's team and been an upgrade over Beard.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:19:44 pm by MakingPlays »
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Letsroll1200

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #170 on: July 31, 2018, 03:35:21 pm »

You managed to make that comment without mentioning ppg, rpg, apg, or steals. Your biggest negative about Babb was that he played for a bad team that lost their coach to the NBA. What does that have to do with Babb's ability?

Whitt: 33 mins, 10.5 pts, 5.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, 1.8 stls.

Babb: 36 mins, 11.3 pts, 7.0 rebs, 6.8 asts, 1.3 stls.

I would have loved to have those guys on the team last year over a CJ Jones or Anton Beard.

Whitt played a lot of minutes due to injuries on the team. Babb left Arkansas but ended up at a school that didn't make the NCAA tournament last season.
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hawgball40

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #171 on: July 31, 2018, 04:00:36 pm »

he was a freaking freshman and transferred to DePaul lmaoooooo
he was alot better than beard in every aspect of the game. Coach just had a soft spot for beard for some reason. Sucks, Darious is a pretty good player. Coach just liked Anton but we know the countless mistakes we had with him on the court, but also he came up clutch in big games by leading comebacks.

hogwood

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #172 on: July 31, 2018, 04:18:30 pm »

You mean being upset that he wasn't playing over Anton Beard? That seems reasonable.

Why would he ever play over Anton Beard? They had totally different roles and positions...

hogwood

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #173 on: July 31, 2018, 04:23:03 pm »

Hall was a good player, a projected starter, with a bright future. I remember similar negative comments made towards Babb and Whitt when they left....now look at them.

Never said he was a bad player. He's absolutely a good player, with a lot of potential. I would have loved to keep him. But he wasn't the best teammate and made bad decisions off the court. Mason Jones seems potentially just as good. It's not a slight to Hall as much as it is a complement to Jones.
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HoopS

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #174 on: July 31, 2018, 07:32:14 pm »

Why would he ever play over Anton Beard? They had totally different roles and positions...
exactly. Not sure why people keep pounding that drum. Makes not a bit of sense.
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Hou-Hog

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #175 on: July 31, 2018, 08:24:50 pm »

Hall is a better all around player than Jones. Much better defensively and rebounding. Hall can also finish at the rim better. Jones is a better shooter.
Jones is a much better ball handler as well
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HogBreath

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #176 on: July 31, 2018, 08:47:56 pm »

  And Whitt played horribly, he may have the worst shot in the country, and I'm not exaggerating. 

No doubt Whitt had an awkward looking shot, just curious if that was the same shot he had in high school, back when he was the next big thing.
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niels_boar

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #177 on: August 02, 2018, 03:31:49 pm »

Hall is a better all around player than Jones. Much better defensively and rebounding. Hall can also finish at the rim better. Jones is a better shooter.

We don't really know how they compare until we see Jones on the court.  Hall's contributions are exaggerated from last season.  His one super-power last season was defensive rebounding.  However, he fouled as much as our foul-prone forwards despite few steals from his reach and no blocks.  You dismiss Bailey, who didn't foul any more often while getting blocks at three times the rate, steals at the same rate, and nearly as high a defensive rebounding rate despite going for blocks instead of position.

Hall had the second worst offensive rating in the rotation ( ahead of only Cook) because he gushed TOs (only Gabe had a higher TO rate) without ever getting an assist (only CJ and Gafford had lower assist rates) and was dreadful at the line.  He was third on the team in FTA rate but only shot 56%, which was equivalent to more TOs. He shot a good percentage from three on limited, wide-open attempts that inflated his percentage relative to his shooting ability.  He was Qualls as a frosh. He showed flashes of great potential but gave a lot of his positive contributions back on negative plays (TOs, fouls, missed FTs). Bailey could probably have provided similar D at the three with far fewer TOs, more assists, and more offensive rebounds.  Hall was the one player last season in which the fans saw all his good plays but turned a blind eye to all his mistakes.  Sort of the opposite of Beard.  I expect Hall, like most frosh, to shore up his weakness as his career progresses, which will allow his strengths to make more contributions to wins.

Based on his Juco stats, if Jones isn't a far better offensive player in just about every aspect than Hall was last season, I'll be sorely disappointed.  Hopefully he will be an infinitely better ball-handler while making his FTs. Jones rebounded his position well last season.  We'll see how it translates.

Corkscrew Johnson

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #178 on: August 02, 2018, 05:04:46 pm »

We don't really know how they compare until we see Jones on the court.  Hall's contributions are exaggerated from last season.  His one super-power last season was defensive rebounding.  However, he fouled as much as our foul-prone forwards despite few steals from his reach and no blocks.  You dismiss Bailey, who didn't foul any more often while getting blocks at three times the rate, steals at the same rate, and nearly as high a defensive rebounding rate despite going for blocks instead of position.

Hall had the second worst offensive rating in the rotation ( ahead of only Cook) because he gushed TOs (only Gabe had a higher TO rate) without ever getting an assist (only CJ and Gafford had lower assist rates) and was dreadful at the line.  He was third on the team in FTA rate but only shot 56%, which was equivalent to more TOs. He shot a good percentage from three on limited, wide-open attempts that inflated his percentage relative to his shooting ability.  He was Qualls as a frosh. He showed flashes of great potential but gave a lot of his positive contributions back on negative plays (TOs, fouls, missed FTs). Bailey could probably have provided similar D at the three with far fewer TOs, more assists, and more offensive rebounds.  Hall was the one player last season in which the fans saw all his good plays but turned a blind eye to all his mistakes.  Sort of the opposite of Beard.  I expect Hall, like most frosh, to shore up his weakness as his career progresses, which will allow his strengths to make more contributions to wins.

Based on his Juco stats, if Jones isn't a far better offensive player in just about every aspect than Hall was last season, I'll be sorely disappointed.  Hopefully he will be an infinitely better ball-handler while making his FTs. Jones rebounded his position well last season.  We'll see how it translates.

The only thing accurate above is the comment that we don't know what Mason looks like yet.  Hall was a dangerous combination of coordination, basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, with a surprisingly decent-looking shot to boot.  He should have received more PT, but his PT should not have been a justification for leaving...he was in line for huge minutes.  He will be a loss on the court.  We will move on. 

Any other updates on practice?
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Big Nasty 34

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #179 on: August 02, 2018, 05:48:27 pm »

The only thing accurate above is the comment that we don't know what Mason looks like yet.  Hall was a dangerous combination of coordination, basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, with a surprisingly decent-looking shot to boot.  He should have received more PT, but his PT should not have been a justification for leaving...he was in line for huge minutes.  He will be a loss on the court.  We will move on. 

Any other updates on practice?

Give us stats that are more accurate, then.
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MakingPlays

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #180 on: August 02, 2018, 06:01:34 pm »

The only thing accurate above is the comment that we don't know what Mason looks like yet.  Hall was a dangerous combination of coordination, basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, with a surprisingly decent-looking shot to boot.  He should have received more PT, but his PT should not have been a justification for leaving...he was in line for huge minutes.  He will be a loss on the court.  We will move on. 

Any other updates on practice?

LOL, I'm one that was very disappointed about losing Hall, but you can't throw out facts because you don't like them.  Niels did research and brought facts, if you're going to say the man is wrong at least provide the stats that shows he's wrong.
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Corkscrew Johnson

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #181 on: August 03, 2018, 08:49:55 am »

Give us stats that are more accurate, then.

LOL, the only fact listed was his FT percentage.  Saying he only shot decent 3's because he was wide open is lazy.  Everything else listed was opinion, which should have been disclaimed by the fact that he was platooned with the second team.  Do you think he stats would have been better if he got to play with Macon, Barford, and Gafford?

Sometimes you have to actually watch the game to see talent and potential. Just reading the Hogville game thread and stat box in the paper doesn't paint the whole picture.  Hall's size, coordination, and basketball IQ was obvious.

Anyway, going back to my original question, does anyone have any practice updates?
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niels_boar

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #182 on: August 03, 2018, 12:44:19 pm »

LOL, the only fact listed was his FT percentage.  Saying he only shot decent 3's because he was wide open is lazy.  Everything else listed was opinion, which should have been disclaimed by the fact that he was platooned with the second team.  Do you think he stats would have been better if he got to play with Macon, Barford, and Gafford?

Sometimes you have to actually watch the game to see talent and potential. Just reading the Hogville game thread and stat box in the paper doesn't paint the whole picture.  Hall's size, coordination, and basketball IQ was obvious.

Anyway, going back to my original question, does anyone have any practice updates?

Macon and Barford  played over 30 minutes per game.  Everybody played with them.  They rested sparingly, and Gafford was usually on the court when he wasn't in foul trouble.  Hall started 5 games but couldn't stay in the lineup obviously because all you guys are geniuses and Mike Anderson has no idea who to put on the court.

How many step-back, contested threes did you see Hall take?  I watched every minute of every game. He was extremely selective when he shot them.  He shot 2.5 treys per 40 minutes on the court.  That's compared to 4.4 for Beard, 7.4 for Barford, 7.5 for Macon, and 8.9 for CJ.  Hall was Watkins from the arc. Watkins shot 2.0 3PAs per 40 minutes in SEC play last year and made 45%!  Do you believe Watkins was a non-selective arc shooter?  Do you believe Watkins might have shot a lower percentage than Hannahs had he taken the same degree of difficulty shots?

The narrative on this non-reality board is that Beard was a low IQ, free shooter that scored inefficiently but Hall was a high IQ, efficient scorer.  In reality per 40 minutes:

          Beard      Hall
FGAs    10.9       9.9
Pts       12.6      13.6

That's one whole point better for Hall on 1 less shots.  Hall gets a slight edge, but it's hardly a glaring difference.  Hall was a disaster driving.  If he didn't turn it over, he was liable to miss FTs if he got fouled.  By contrast, Beard made as many FTs per 40 minutes on much fewer attempts.  Also, a much higher percentage of Beard's shots were treys, where he shot 33%.  That's equivalent to 50% on deuces.  In the final analysis, you get almost no difference in their scoring contributions

But in the IQ stats

Assists  4.0      1.2
TOs       1.7      3.0

So Beard accounted for 1 less point per 40 minutes but contributed to over 8 more points on assists (accounting for trey assists) and wasted 2.3 fewer possessions.  I don't know how many times I saw Hall dive into the lane because he decided it was time to drive and something bad happened.  Frosh do that. It's laughable that he gets credit for high IQ last year, while Beard, who had the highest A/TO on the team, gets excoriated for low IQ.

Kevin McPherson

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #183 on: August 03, 2018, 01:30:27 pm »

We don't really know how they compare until we see Jones on the court.  Hall's contributions are exaggerated from last season.  His one super-power last season was defensive rebounding.  However, he fouled as much as our foul-prone forwards despite few steals from his reach and no blocks.  You dismiss Bailey, who didn't foul any more often while getting blocks at three times the rate, steals at the same rate, and nearly as high a defensive rebounding rate despite going for blocks instead of position.

Hall had the second worst offensive rating in the rotation ( ahead of only Cook) because he gushed TOs (only Gabe had a higher TO rate) without ever getting an assist (only CJ and Gafford had lower assist rates) and was dreadful at the line.  He was third on the team in FTA rate but only shot 56%, which was equivalent to more TOs. He shot a good percentage from three on limited, wide-open attempts that inflated his percentage relative to his shooting ability.  He was Qualls as a frosh. He showed flashes of great potential but gave a lot of his positive contributions back on negative plays (TOs, fouls, missed FTs). Bailey could probably have provided similar D at the three with far fewer TOs, more assists, and more offensive rebounds.  Hall was the one player last season in which the fans saw all his good plays but turned a blind eye to all his mistakes.  Sort of the opposite of Beard.  I expect Hall, like most frosh, to shore up his weakness as his career progresses, which will allow his strengths to make more contributions to wins.

Based on his Juco stats, if Jones isn't a far better offensive player in just about every aspect than Hall was last season, I'll be sorely disappointed.  Hopefully he will be an infinitely better ball-handler while making his FTs. Jones rebounded his position well last season.  We'll see how it translates.

Normally agree with your takes, but not on Darious Hall's impact (or, what the impact would have meant if he had played more). Best on-ball and help defender on the perimeter. His per-40-minute rebounds were 8.5. He shot 50% overall FGs, and that includes 40.6% from 3 on limited attempts, and believe me there were others who didn't fare as well taking those "wide-open" attempts. In fact, some guys who technically didn't turn the ball over and showed a solid A-to-TO ratio on paper were like a black hole with the ball = run them off the 3-point line or when they drove, and the ball was going up awkwardly (very few kickouts or dump-downs for better looks and dimes) ... those are like turnovers, too.

I think Arkansas would have been a better team last season had Hall started and received more run on the floor with Macon and Barford, with Beard getting fewer minutes and rotating in and out along with CJ Jones. My opinion, and having expressed it, it STILL blows my mind that with all the seniors departing -- specifically the 3 guards who each avg 30+ mins -- that DHall packed up and blew out. Young man had all the tools to be All SEC at Arkansas. Agree with the Qualls comparison -- have always made that one -- except Hall was bigger, stronger, and a better defender as a freshman than Qualls ever was.

Rock City Razorback

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #184 on: August 03, 2018, 02:45:40 pm »

Normally agree with your takes, but not on Darious Hall's impact (or, what the impact would have meant if he had played more). Best on-ball and help defender on the perimeter. His per-40-minute rebounds were 8.5. He shot 50% overall FGs, and that includes 40.6% from 3 on limited attempts, and believe me there were others who didn't fare as well taking those "wide-open" attempts. In fact, some guys who technically didn't turn the ball over and showed a solid A-to-TO ratio on paper were like a black hole with the ball = run them off the 3-point line or when they drove, and the ball was going up awkwardly (very few kickouts or dump-downs for better looks and dimes) ... those are like turnovers, too.

I think Arkansas would have been a better team last season had Hall started and received more run on the floor with Macon and Barford, with Beard getting fewer minutes and rotating in and out along with CJ Jones. My opinion, and having expressed it, it STILL blows my mind that with all the seniors departing -- specifically the 3 guards who each avg 30+ mins -- that DHall packed up and blew out. Young man had all the tools to be All SEC at Arkansas. Agree with the Qualls comparison -- have always made that one -- except Hall was bigger, stronger, and a better defender as a freshman than Qualls ever was.

Why did he transfer to DePaul?
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The_Iceman

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #185 on: August 03, 2018, 07:18:23 pm »

Normally agree with your takes, but not on Darious Hall's impact (or, what the impact would have meant if he had played more). Best on-ball and help defender on the perimeter. His per-40-minute rebounds were 8.5. He shot 50% overall FGs, and that includes 40.6% from 3 on limited attempts, and believe me there were others who didn't fare as well taking those "wide-open" attempts. In fact, some guys who technically didn't turn the ball over and showed a solid A-to-TO ratio on paper were like a black hole with the ball = run them off the 3-point line or when they drove, and the ball was going up awkwardly (very few kickouts or dump-downs for better looks and dimes) ... those are like turnovers, too.

I think Arkansas would have been a better team last season had Hall started and received more run on the floor with Macon and Barford, with Beard getting fewer minutes and rotating in and out along with CJ Jones. My opinion, and having expressed it, it STILL blows my mind that with all the seniors departing -- specifically the 3 guards who each avg 30+ mins -- that DHall packed up and blew out. Young man had all the tools to be All SEC at Arkansas. Agree with the Qualls comparison -- have always made that one -- except Hall was bigger, stronger, and a better defender as a freshman than Qualls ever was.

Great points Kevin.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #186 on: August 04, 2018, 10:12:16 am »

Normally agree with your takes, but not on Darious Hall's impact (or, what the impact would have meant if he had played more). Best on-ball and help defender on the perimeter. His per-40-minute rebounds were 8.5. He shot 50% overall FGs, and that includes 40.6% from 3 on limited attempts, and believe me there were others who didn't fare as well taking those "wide-open" attempts. In fact, some guys who technically didn't turn the ball over and showed a solid A-to-TO ratio on paper were like a black hole with the ball = run them off the 3-point line or when they drove, and the ball was going up awkwardly (very few kickouts or dump-downs for better looks and dimes) ... those are like turnovers, too.

I think Arkansas would have been a better team last season had Hall started and received more run on the floor with Macon and Barford, with Beard getting fewer minutes and rotating in and out along with CJ Jones. My opinion, and having expressed it, it STILL blows my mind that with all the seniors departing -- specifically the 3 guards who each avg 30+ mins -- that DHall packed up and blew out. Young man had all the tools to be All SEC at Arkansas. Agree with the Qualls comparison -- have always made that one -- except Hall was bigger, stronger, and a better defender as a freshman than Qualls ever was.

Eye test only. Hall was more valuable than Beard. Seemed that MA just wanted to be right about Beard instead of playing the best option. Major mistake
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Kevin McPherson

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #187 on: August 04, 2018, 12:12:18 pm »

Eye test only. Hall was more valuable than Beard. Seemed that MA just wanted to be right about Beard instead of playing the best option. Major mistake

I believe it was a mistake, too -- not because it led to DHall transferring, which as I stated seems to be squarely on him -- but because I think Arkansas would have been a better basketball team and built better for an NCAAT run. Sometimes, a tweak to the lineup, rotation, minutes, etc. can make a big difference. Ironically, we saw such a scenario play out when freshman Beard was plugged in as a starter just past the midway point in '14-15 creating the right chemistry and combinations to fuel Arkansas's strong run to finish 2nd in the SEC behind undefeated Kentucky.

Also, I'm not sure MA did it out of stubborness. Arkansas had an absence of a facilitator-first floor leader, on top of having chemistry problems on last year's team. I think Daryl Macon was the best option to handle that role, but it seemed Beard got a lot of minutes because he was viewed as the steady hand operating as a 1 with Barford and Macon asked to score, which they did but the flow often seemed disjointed or "my-turn"-ish. Barford could not be trusted handling the ball or running the team for long, and it was usually disruptive the few times he was on the floor without Macon and Beard.

But IMO, Beard was a low-percentage bet to finish, and a low-percentage bet to make the right pass ... a bit of an illusion looking at the assist-to-turnover numbers when you factor in the bad shots, over-dribbling, and not being able to defend effectively. I felt like his best impact always was with the role he had as a junior.

Hall was injected into the starting lineup against Missouri after Arkansas started poorly in SEC play, and I believe from that point on he showed he was ready for a role bigger than the increase he would get moving forward. He had some learning-curve issues, typically with turnovers, but his effectiveness and versatility on D, the ability to crash and cash O boards into buckets or FT attempts (yes, I know the %), and just the perimeter length and size that nobody else could bring had me thinking Arkansas would be a different animal, and better team, if he were getting 20-25 minutes with Beard getting about the same.

That was my take then, and now after months to reflect.

HoopS

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #188 on: August 04, 2018, 12:30:24 pm »

I知 am beyond sick of reading about Beard and Hall.

Hopefully we can focus on who we have here on campus otherwise please help me get out this thread so it値l quit getting bumped in my unread topics.

Beard and Hall are gone. Neither have a thing to do about pickup games and updates on our current team.

hawginbigd1

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #189 on: August 04, 2018, 03:19:07 pm »

You must didn't watch many SMU games this season.  I watched a few just to see how Whitt was doing.  And Whitt played horribly, he may have the worst shot in the country, and I'm not exaggerating.  Only reason he scored in double figures was by default, his team wasn't very good, and he played a ton of minutes.  Anton Beard would have put up better numbers in the AAC with 33 MPG. And I say this as one of Beard's biggest critics.  And I'm pretty sure CJ Jones would have shot much better and averaged more PPG with 33 MPG in the AAC as well.

Now Babb was pretty good.  I definitely think he could have helped last year's team and been an upgrade over Beard.
Absolutely agree, Jimmy who, guy was a 2-A nightmare and all he will ever be imo. Babb is a legit player but not as good a shooter as i thought he would be.
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HogBreath

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #190 on: August 04, 2018, 03:59:07 pm »

I知 am beyond sick of reading about Beard and Hall.

Hopefully we can focus on who we have here on campus otherwise please help me get out this thread so it値l quit getting bumped in my unread topics.

Beard and Hall are gone. Neither have a thing to do about pickup games and updates on our current team.
Uh oh....looks like someone is not having a good day. lol

HoopS

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #191 on: August 04, 2018, 04:05:31 pm »

Uh oh....looks like someone is not having a good day. lol
haha.

Well I keep clicking this thread hoping to read something to do with the current players only to realize some are stuck on Groundhog Day again.

cram224

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #192 on: August 05, 2018, 03:46:03 pm »

Can we please get back to talking about how the players are doing in pickup games. What happened to the HV member that used to go and watch pickup games and report back?

Dominicanhog

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #193 on: August 05, 2018, 04:03:10 pm »

Can we please get back to talking about how the players are doing in pickup games. What happened to the HV member that used to go and watch pickup games and report back?
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #194 on: August 05, 2018, 04:18:37 pm »

I知 am beyond sick of reading about Beard and Hall.

Hopefully we can focus on who we have here on campus otherwise please help me get out this thread so it値l quit getting bumped in my unread topics.

Beard and Hall are gone. Neither have a thing to do about pickup games and updates on our current team.

Agree, no need to keep dwelling on it at this point.  Hall is gone.  Beard graduated, and 2017-18 is done.  This thread was started to discuss current and future players, their development, and what has been seen during pick up games and workouts.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I read a thread or maybe 100 discussing the issue of Hall's transfer and what could have been differently last year.  Don't know what these discussions can't be carried on in one of those.

Dominicanhog

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #195 on: August 05, 2018, 04:43:33 pm »

  Beard graduated,

well done, young man...
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niels_boar

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #196 on: August 05, 2018, 05:51:12 pm »




But IMO, Beard was a low-percentage bet to finish, and a low-percentage bet to make the right pass ... a bit of an illusion looking at the assist-to-turnover numbers when you factor in the bad shots, over-dribbling, and not being able to defend effectively. I felt like his best impact always was with the role he had as a junior.




No offense, but I think that's confirmation bias talking.  Beard didn't get a lot of flashy assists where he drove and flung the ball halfway across the court.  He tended to get assists by making the right pass within the offense.  CMA kept him on the court because the three guys that needed to be  taking shots were Macon, Gafford, and Barford.  The only three players that moved the needle on assists were Beard, Thompson, and Macon.  Hall was particularly deficient in that regard.

Hall's value was all about how much he improved the defense with his rebounding and on-the-ball defense.  I think his on-the-ball defense is overrated by fans.  He crouched low, which negated some of his height, and most disappointingly is that his reach didn't result in big steal numbers.  Thompson fouled less per 40 while getting as many steals and blocking shots.  Only Gafford and Gabe fouled more per 40.  Hall and Thomas both committed 5.5 fouls per 40, but Thomas had more steals.  Gafford only had 5.8 fouls per 40 when he was trying to block every shot the opponents threw up .Hall was a position defender that managed to foul a ton.  You can't foul that much without going for steals or blocks and be considered a good defender in my book.

Kevin McPherson

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #197 on: August 05, 2018, 09:45:50 pm »


No offense, but I think that's confirmation bias talking.  Beard didn't get a lot of flashy assists where he drove and flung the ball halfway across the court.  He tended to get assists by making the right pass within the offense.  CMA kept him on the court because the three guys that needed to be  taking shots were Macon, Gafford, and Barford.  The only three players that moved the needle on assists were Beard, Thompson, and Macon.  Hall was particularly deficient in that regard.

Hall's value was all about how much he improved the defense with his rebounding and on-the-ball defense.  I think his on-the-ball defense is overrated by fans.  He crouched low, which negated some of his height, and most disappointingly is that his reach didn't result in big steal numbers.  Thompson fouled less per 40 while getting as many steals and blocking shots.  Only Gafford and Gabe fouled more per 40.  Hall and Thomas both committed 5.5 fouls per 40, but Thomas had more steals.  Gafford only had 5.8 fouls per 40 when he was trying to block every shot the opponents threw up .Hall was a position defender that managed to foul a ton.  You can't foul that much without going for steals or blocks and be considered a good defender in my book.

No offense taken, but I assure you there is no "confirmation bias" talking. If you're one of the primary handlers getting 30 minutes per game playing next to two 1st team All SEC scorers who were among the most proficient 3-point shooters in the league, you're going to get "assists" almost by default (i.e. making the next pass to either Macon or Barford). Also, I don't just count assists. Often, it's the guy who makes the first timely pass while the D is trying to keep up who sets up both the assister and scorer. But his decision-making on the perimeter -- over-dribbling, oblivious or late to recognize teammates running open, cutting, or getting into creases -- often was as much of a head-scratcher as when he put the ball on the floor and attacked the paint.

Cool that you cherry-picked Hall's fouls and steals and made those comparisons to players not named AB -- all to make a point that Hall shouldn't be "considered a good defender" in your book. Hall got a lot of deflections (often the guy that gets his hand on the ball creates the loose-ball and steal opportunity for someone else), walled off a lot of penetration, took charges, and rebounded well on the defensive end -- ALL of which don't stuff his personal steal column. And oh-by-the-way, his per-min steal numbers were better than the player being compared, AB. Afterall, the discussion was sorting out perimeter minutes and roles, not shoe-horning in foul and steal comparisons with frontliners. I mean, Thompson and Thomas's per-min steals were better than AB's, too. A lot of Hall's fouls came from hitting the glass with a passion, plus hard close-outs and rotations on help -- at least he was a physical presence on a team that too often was not tough defensively.

Hall was a more efficient scorer, per-min scoring was better, rebounding was better in fewer than half of the minutes, defense and defensive versatility was a lot better (again, his per-min steals were better), and his combo of size-length-physicality at both ends was something no other 1-thru-3 on that team could bring. That last piece offered more value, IMO, than having another smallish, average handling, average defending guard.

I'm not totally dismissing all of your points, I just don't think that what my eyes told me coupled with the overall data justifies the minutes and roles those 2 had. If there were other reasons CMA didn't trust Hall -- and there were -- then it explains things a lot better, IMO. 

MakingPlays

Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #198 on: August 05, 2018, 10:58:50 pm »

I think the fact the Hall chose to leave an SEC program (that's been to the NCAA Tournament 3 of the past 4 years) where he was destined to be the #2 guy and play in front of NBA scouts every night and went to play for DePaul, who's been about as irrelevant in college basketball as a program can be with a coach that's probably on the hottest seat in the country tell us everything we need to know about Hall  And that's not even mentioning him already being an older freshman and having to sit out a red-shirt year, which makes no sense considering the rumors of him leaving was he thought another school would give him a better chance to go to the NBA. 

Even if he thought CMA was the worst coach in the world made more sense to stay and just leave for draft no matter what after next year, rather than rolling the dice on a school that's not putting any kids in the league at all, and more than likely playing for a coach he doesn't even know, because DePaul coach is probably done after this year.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 11:30:03 pm by MakingPlays »
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Dominicanhog

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Re: From what I知 hearing about the team and pickup UPDATED
« Reply #199 on: August 06, 2018, 06:13:39 am »

I think the fact the Hall chose to leave an SEC program (that's been to the NCAA Tournament 3 of the past 4 years) where he was destined to be the #2 guy and play in front of NBA scouts every night and went to play for DePaul, who's been about as irrelevant in college basketball as a program can be with a coach that's probably on the hottest seat in the country tell us everything we need to know about Hall  And that's not even mentioning him already being an older freshman and having to sit out a red-shirt year, which makes no sense considering the rumors of him leaving was he thought another school would give him a better chance to go to the NBA. 

Even if he thought CMA was the worst coach in the world made more sense to stay and just leave for draft no matter what after next year, rather than rolling the dice on a school that's not putting any kids in the league at all, and more than likely playing for a coach he doesn't even know, because DePaul coach is probably done after this year.

Maybe, Mike was looking down the road....and that's where the road landed for D. H.. better make the best of 2nd chances.. Chi-town's a good place to get an education..
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