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Author Topic: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?  (Read 3788 times)

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Pork Twain

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2018, 06:19:12 am »

DESTIN, Fla. – The more the merrier?

Drew said he’d like to see even more than 72 teams in the Big Dance.



It's called trend analysis.  Why keep increasing the number?  Teams need to earn their spot, during the season. 

People like this guy are why there is a bowl game fore teams with losing records.  Participation trophies for everyone!  Are you guys just looking for a way to increase Mike's chances of extending his NCAA streak of making it only to lose in the first two rounds.  I guess with more teams in, there is a chance we might actually play a team he could beat.

Years / Teams / Byes / Play-in games

1939–1950 8 
1951–1952 16 
1953–1968 22–25 7–10 
1969–1974 25 7
1975–1978 32 
1979 40 24 
1980–1982 48 16
1983 52 16 4
1984 53 16 5
1985–2000 64 
2001–2010 65 0 1
2011– 68 0 4

I am not sure where you are going with this "Far better 96 of 351 than 64 out of 182"

ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2018, 09:31:33 am »

It's called trend analysis.  Why keep increasing the number?  Teams need to earn their spot, during the season. 

People like this guy are why there is a bowl game fore teams with losing records.  Participation trophies for everyone!  Are you guys just looking for a way to increase Mike's chances of extending his NCAA streak of making it only to lose in the first two rounds.  I guess with more teams in, there is a chance we might actually play a team he could beat.

Years / Teams / Byes / Play-in games

1939–1950 8 
1951–1952 16 
1953–1968 22–25 7–10 
1969–1974 25 7
1975–1978 32 
1979 40 24 
1980–1982 48 16
1983 52 16 4
1984 53 16 5
1985–2000 64 
2001–2010 65 0 1
2011– 68 0 4

I am not sure where you are going with this "Far better 96 of 351 than 64 out of 182"


The pool of teams continues to grow at a pace that vastly outstrips available bids.  That's where it comes from-- the tournament now is more exclusive than ever, for a sport that's doubled in size, essentially, while the size of the tournament has stayed relatively flat.

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hogsanity

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2018, 09:51:36 am »

The pool of teams continues to grow at a pace that vastly outstrips available bids.  That's where it comes from-- the tournament now is more exclusive than ever, for a sport that's doubled in size, essentially, while the size of the tournament has stayed relatively flat.

That is if you go with the belief that all 300+ teams have a legit chance of making it. However, as has been pointed out, the only way close to 200 of those teams can get in is to get their league autobid. The pool of teams fighting for at large bis is much smaller than 300.
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2018, 09:55:43 am »

That is if you go with the belief that all 300+ teams have a legit chance of making it. However, as has been pointed out, the only way close to 200 of those teams can get in is to get their league autobid. The pool of teams fighting for at large bis is much smaller than 300.

All of them do.   That's the dirty secret that  'the game is watered down' folks don't like to talk about.

hogsanity

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2018, 10:03:49 am »

All of them do.   That's the dirty secret that  'the game is watered down' folks don't like to talk about.



They dont have a legit chance of being an at large, and those are the slots being added. They are not adding any more autobids.

I am all for expanding it, I just do not buy the rational being used. They need to just come out and say what it is. They want more teams from the biggest leagues in, because they want bigger pieces of the pie.  I would rather see them make the auto bids go to the winner and runner up of the conf tourneys, in stead of what we are going to get, which is yet another team from the ACC or SEC or Big East. I do not want the 9th or 10th team from the SEC/ACC/Big10/Big East getting in.

Pork Twain

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2018, 10:39:15 am »

All of them do.   That's the dirty secret that  'the game is watered down' folks don't like to talk about.


It is and like I said, if you want to play in the post-season, it is your responsibility to take care of business during the season.  #nomoreparticipationtrophies

Like Hogsanity said though, this is about money, not about giving more teams a fair shake.
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2018, 11:08:34 am »

It is and like I said, if you want to play in the post-season, it is your responsibility to take care of business during the season.  #nomoreparticipationtrophies

Like Hogsanity said though, this is about money, not about giving more teams a fair shake.

There's no participation trophy involved; indeed, this is the opposite of that. 

The tone deafness of the 'watered down' crowd is telling.

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2018, 11:59:19 am »

The pool of teams continues to grow at a pace that vastly outstrips available bids.  That's where it comes from-- the tournament now is more exclusive than ever, for a sport that's doubled in size, essentially, while the size of the tournament has stayed relatively flat.

To make your argument make sense, we need to expand the tournament to about 175 teams so the 200+ teams in the one bid only conferences can have a similar opportunity as those in the power conferences do.  It's only fair, right? 
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hogsanity

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2018, 01:31:28 pm »

There's no participation trophy involved; indeed, this is the opposite of that. 

The tone deafness of the 'watered down' crowd is telling.

I am not saying it is watered down, I am saying that the rational being used to add teams is disingenuous. It has nothing to do with providing more of the 300+ teams a chance, and everything to do with providing a chance to a few of the big boy teams that barely got left out. They are ALWAYS going to find a way to not let in a St Mary from the WCC, but also are going to try to find a way to get that next ACC or SEC or BIG10 team in.

Tell me that they are adding 4. 8, 10 or whatever # of teams, and that all of those spots must go to non p5 league teams, and I am all for that.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2018, 01:59:58 pm »

The pool of teams continues to grow at a pace that vastly outstrips available bids.  That's where it comes from-- the tournament now is more exclusive than ever, for a sport that's doubled in size, essentially, while the size of the tournament has stayed relatively flat.

A sport that has doubled in size? I didnít know there were twice as many D1 basketball teams now as there was before.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2018, 02:54:51 pm »

A sport that has doubled in size? I didnít know there were twice as many D1 basketball teams now as there was before.

Maybe around 35-40 this century have moved up.  Those ones we compete with annually for at large bids:  Bryant, Houston Baptist, Seattle, NJIT, North Florida.  The ACC teams hate the competition for spots with "new" D1 programs like High Point and SC Upstate. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2018, 03:44:54 pm »

A sport that has doubled in size? I didnít know there were twice as many D1 basketball teams now as there was before.

Quite near to it.   We're up to 351 with another couple supposedly looking to come on line in the next 3-5 years, as we're in a good era for basketball.

When we won our National Championship, the number was just starting to level after another explosive rise.

When the tournament went through the expansion to 64 in '85, it was just cresting 200, with 29 programs that were under 5 years old at the D1 level at the time of the expansion.       So, its not precisely doubled, but neither are the team numbers static now.  The trend remains expansion of the tournament eligible classification.

Inhogswetrust

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2018, 04:16:19 pm »

Quite near to it.   We're up to 351 with another couple supposedly looking to come on line in the next 3-5 years, as we're in a good era for basketball.

When we won our National Championship, the number was just starting to level after another explosive rise.

When the tournament went through the expansion to 64 in '85, it was just cresting 200, with 29 programs that were under 5 years old at the D1 level at the time of the expansion.       So, its not precisely doubled, but neither are the team numbers static now.  The trend remains expansion of the tournament eligible classification.

Thanks. Thatís amazing and I didnít know that. However just because itís nearly doubled doesnít mean more teams are good enough to be in the dance. Out of that 351 I submit only about few dozen or so should be good enough to be in it. It is watered down when you have more teams in it. Only once for example has a 16 beat a 1 seed and that wasnít until this season.
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2018, 04:31:54 pm »

Thanks. Thatís amazing and I didnít know that. However just because itís nearly doubled doesnít mean more teams are good enough to be in the dance. Out of that 351 I submit only about few dozen or so should be good enough to be in it. It is watered down when you have more teams in it. Only once for example has a 16 beat a 1 seed and that wasnít until this season.

The idea that a 16 has beaten a 1 should argue exactly the opposite;  with a narrower and narrower band of teams making the tournament each season, the depth of quality teams is such that your worst team in the field is still in the top quintile or so of college basketball.  These aren't nobodies beating nobodies, or a watered down product.   You are going to see these things more and more often, because the competition level is being narrowed to a smaller band of teams.

In simpler terms, in Ye Olden Days of 48-54 team fields, there would be two or three bad to average teams for every one in the field.  Nowadays, that number is four, heading towards five.   

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2018, 04:45:51 pm »

16 seeds are 1-135 in the NCAAT. The field wouldn't be expanding where we would have an NCAAT with a situation of:

American East T Ch Albany and at larges Binghampton, UMBC and Vermont as part of the 96 team field.

We would still get Albany and then LSU, ND and Utah and so on as at larges.  Add another 150 teams to D1.  OBU, Henderson, etc.  Still won't change the amount of spots the power conferences take until they expand it to where nearly ever power conference program and next tier gets in and they have to start taking multiple teams from the 200+ group to fill out the bracket. 
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Pork Twain

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2018, 11:22:06 pm »

There's no participation trophy involved; indeed, this is the opposite of that. 

The tone deafness of the 'watered down' crowd is telling.
You get a seed, you get a seed, everyone gets a seed...  Expanding the number of bowl games has done wonders for college football.  /sarcasm
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HoopS

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2018, 06:47:01 am »

You get a seed, you get a seed, everyone gets a seed...  Expanding the number of bowl games has done wonders for college football.  /sarcasm
really canít compare the tourament to bowl games. 4 teams have a shot at winning it all in football once pairings are announced. Every team in the field in the tournament has to be beaten to be eliminated.

The ďparticipation trophyĒ comes from the tournaments a team pays to get into, not the one that leads to the national title.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2018, 09:32:32 am »

The idea that a 16 has beaten a 1 should argue exactly the opposite;  with a narrower and narrower band of teams making the tournament each season, the depth of quality teams is such that your worst team in the field is still in the top quintile or so of college basketball.  These aren't nobodies beating nobodies, or a watered down product.   You are going to see these things more and more often, because the competition level is being narrowed to a smaller band of teams.

In simpler terms, in Ye Olden Days of 48-54 team fields, there would be two or three bad to average teams for every one in the field.  Nowadays, that number is four, heading towards five.   


It expanded for one reason..........$. Not because of more teams in d1.
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hogsanity

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2018, 09:48:57 am »

It expanded for one reason..........$. Not because of more teams in d1.

And expanding it also cheapens the regular season.  Regular season already means nothing to the one bid leagues, that all comes down to who gets hot for 3 or 4 days in their conf tourney. Also means very little to the top of each multi bid league. It only matters to the handful of p5 teams and mid majors that are just good enough to maybe get in as a 9-11, but could play their way out with a loss. Adding teams just gives them more space on the bubble, and that is what this is all about.
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2018, 04:05:35 pm »

You get a seed, you get a seed, everyone gets a seed...  Expanding the number of bowl games has done wonders for college football.  /sarcasm

Its never been more popular.  Its not like the bowls have ever had meaning beyond being exhibitions.

Oh, and they continue to make more money.  That's the bottom line.

ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2018, 04:06:47 pm »

It expanded for one reason..........$. Not because of more teams in d1.

Sure.   No one is arguing that-  we're arguing about the ability of the championship to expand without diluting the quality of the brand; as it stands, its at historic highs in selectivity, and adding more and more potential inventory every year.   The dollars are there, and the tournament will follow-- at this point, there's no rational reason not to.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2018, 08:54:43 am »

Let's see how selective Lunardi thinks this next tourney will be.

THE RUNDOWN
CONFERENCE   TEAMS
ACC   11
Big Ten   8
SEC   6
Big 12   6
Pac-12   5
Big East   5
41 teams out of 74 programs projected to make the field. (If you add in the AAC's 2 out of 12 it would be 43 out of 86 programs.  Still 1 out of every 2 programs.)
Next 4 out:  Penn St, Texas, BC, Alabama.
So if the field expanded to 72, it would be 45 teams out of the 74 programs.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology/_/iteration/343

If we took Lunardi's projections and went to a field of 72, the ACC, B1G, B12 and SEC would account for 35 of the 72 teams in the field. 

From another site:
https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/06/09/bracketology-2019-updated-way-too-early-preseason-projected-bracket/6/

Bids by Conference: ACC: 10, Big Ten: 8, SEC: 7, Big 12: 6, Big East: 5, Pac-12: 4
40 out of 74
AAC 3 out of 12.  43 out of the 86 programs in these conferences.  1 out of every 2. 


The "selective" argument doesn't work for the programs in the ACC, B1G, SEC, B12, BE and P12. 

Dr. Starcs

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2018, 09:22:29 am »

Sources: NCAA approves adding 3 new bowls in 2020 for a total of 43 bowls (including title game): 84 teams or 65% of all FBS teams will go bowling. Official announcement today. Chicago (B1G vs. ACC) & Myrtle Beach will be 2 of new bowls, sources said.
- Brett McMurphy


Yeah, Iíd say itís way past due to add more teams to the Big Dance.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2018, 09:42:34 am »

Sources: NCAA approves adding 3 new bowls in 2020 for a total of 43 bowls (including title game): 84 teams or 65% of all FBS teams will go bowling. Official announcement today. Chicago (B1G vs. ACC) & Myrtle Beach will be 2 of new bowls, sources said.
- Brett McMurphy


Yeah, Iíd say itís way past due to add more teams to the Big Dance.



40 of the bowls, 80 teams, have no impact on determining the champion just like the 32 teams in the NIT.  It's tv programming mostly for ESPN to sell advertisers.

Is adding the 12th most worthy team out 14 from the ACC to the NCAAT any more reasonable than a 6-6 (5-7 maybe) ACC football  team going to Chicago for bowl?
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hogsanity

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2018, 10:38:33 am »


The "selective" argument doesn't work for the programs in the ACC, B1G, SEC, B12, BE and P12. 


The "selective" argument is only used when you want to make it look like it is really hard to get into the ncaat. For a team like Sienna, or Jackson st it is VERY HARD to get into the ncaat because you have to win your league tourney. Jackson St could go 28-2, and if they do not win their conf tourney, they are not making the ncaat. Meanwhile, Vandy can go 19-15 and get in as a 9 seed.
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hamARchy in the USA

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2018, 11:14:20 am »

A real national championship would take only the champions of each conference and match them up so they can determine the champion of champions.

The number of teams in the NCAA basketball tourney needs to be reduced.  Get rid of the filler material and let the teams which earned their way in by winning their conferences focus on each other rather than having to get up to play the nobodies.

The number of teams in the NCAA football playoff needs to be increased to include all the conference champions.  The conferences which can't field teams that can compete need to be moved to lower divisions.
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2018, 11:30:01 am »



40 of the bowls, 80 teams, have no impact on determining the champion just like the 32 teams in the NIT.  It's tv programming mostly for ESPN to sell advertisers.

Is adding the 12th most worthy team out 14 from the ACC to the NCAAT any more reasonable than a 6-6 (5-7 maybe) ACC football  team going to Chicago for bowl?

Significantly so-- and that's even using the bad assumption the bids go to only to power conferences as a windfall.

Atlhogfan1

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2018, 12:03:26 pm »

Significantly so-- and that's even using the bad assumption the bids go to only to power conferences as a windfall.

Not significantly and it doesn't increase the quality of the field.  Only way it is more relevant is the additional teams would be eligible to win the championship. 

Bad assumption is believing the additional spots will ONLY go to the power conferences.  Also a bad assumption is believing the vast majority won't until the field would expand past the point of available spots for power conference teams. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2018, 06:47:50 pm »

Not significantly and it doesn't increase the quality of the field.  Only way it is more relevant is the additional teams would be eligible to win the championship. 

Bad assumption is believing the additional spots will ONLY go to the power conferences.  Also a bad assumption is believing the vast majority won't until the field would expand past the point of available spots for power conference teams. 

Even using your erred premise, the expansion is more than still justified.

EastexHawg

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2018, 08:25:32 pm »

It makes zero sense to make the tournament even more restrictive than it already is.

"I don't like the idea" and "it doesn't make any sense" don't mean the same thing.  The Big Dance is a national championship tournament.  Why is it necessary, or even preferable, for teams that go 20-10 overall and 8-8 in conference to get to play for the national title?

How many Division 1 football programs are there, 118?  120?  That means 1 in 30 get to play in the championship tournament.  How many would get into the basketball tournament with the same ratio?
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Pork Twain

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2018, 11:11:01 pm »

More teams getting in that do not deserve to be there, will only water down the field and add more games that the players must play and all for greedy people.  If a team truly deserves to be in, they have all season long and their conference tourney to prove it.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 10:21:18 am by Pork Twain »
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jbcarol

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2018, 05:52:22 am »

Sidenote:

Brett McMurphy
‏Verified account @Brett_McMurphy

Sources: NCAA approves adding 3 new bowls in 2020 for a total of 43 bowls (including title game): 84 teams or 65% of all FBS teams will go bowling. Official announcement today. Chicago (B1G vs. ACC) & Myrtle Beach will be 2 of new bowls, sources said.
https://facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/ Ö

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2018, 06:50:51 am »

They should do away with conference tournaments and put all roughly 350 teams in the season final tournament.  It is actually less games thaN playing in both the conference and NCAA tourney if you win them both.


And do a blind draw.  No seeding's.  So you might get Duke-Kansas ranked 1-2 but playing in the first round.   

EastexHawg

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2018, 07:58:45 pm »

Are you guys just looking for a way to increase Mike's chances of extending his NCAA streak of making it only to lose in the first two rounds.  I guess with more teams in, there is a chance we might actually play a team he could beat.

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!

niels_boar

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2018, 11:09:55 am »

The tournament should be expanded at least until every regular-season conference champion gets in.  Make the new bids preferential to conference champions.  I don't know how you quantify undeserving teams getting in.  Half are going to lose in the first round by definition.  Even in BB, good teams don't play out of conference enough against other good teams to do anything but guess as to how conferences stack against one another.  That makes parsing bids no more scientific than throwing darts.  Basically some artificial points of emphasis are used to rank teams without any solid grounding as to whether those guidelines are actually more predictive than another set.  The guidelines in some cases are more to incentivise scheduling behavior than to determine who is better.

As parity sets in, the bigger problem is that some teams are watching the tournament that don't have a significantly less chance of advancing than rock-solid bids.  The EE had a #9-#11 matchup this season, one mid-major and one power conference, and the #1 overall seed lost by 20 in the first round.  That's a sure sign to expand the tournament. In light of that, who got in that had no chance of advancing deep in the tournament under any circumstances? 

CUSA has had their one representative advance to at least the round of 32 four years running, and two weren't the conference champ.  I know UAB one year was probably no better than the fourth-best team in CUSA. How many teams are sitting out that might have advanced?  You are never going to come up with an algorithm to accurately parse teams as of mid-March.  It's easier to let more teams in than pretend that you know who is good. That won't end the controversy at the cutoff, but you won't have some 27-win team sitting at home because they had to play a bunch of strength of schedule killers in conference.  It's also not fair to those in tough conferences to let a 27-win team in that didn't play hardly anybody with a winning record.  Settle it on the court. 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 04:14:03 pm by niels_boar »
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Captain Morgan

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2018, 01:12:14 pm »

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!

When its Wofford
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FineAsSwine

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2018, 01:51:24 pm »

The tournament should be expanded at least until every regular-season conference champion gets in.  Make the new bids preferential to conference champions.  I don't know how you quantify undeserving teams getting in.  Half are going to lose in the first round by definition.  Even in BB teams don't play out of conference enough against other good teams to do anything but guess as to how conferences stack against one another.  That makes parsing bids little more scientific than throwing darts.  Basically some artificial points of emphasis are used to rank teams without any solid grounding as to whether those guidelines are actually more predictive than another set.  The guidelines in some cases are more to incentivise scheduling behavior than to determine who is better.

As parity sets in, the bigger problem is that some teams are watching the tournament that don't have a significantly less chance of advancing as rock-solid bids.  The EE had a #9-#11 matchup this season, one mid-major and one power conference, and the #1 overall seed lost by 20 in the first round.  That's a sure sign to expand the tournament. Who got in that had no chance of advancing deep in the tournament under any circumstances in light of that? 

CUSA has had their one representative advance to at least the round of 32 four years running, and two weren't the conference champ.  I know UAB one year was probably no better than the fourth-best team in CUSA. How many teams are sitting out that might have advanced?  You are never going to come up with an algorithm to accurately parse teams as of mid-March.  It's easier to let more teams in than pretend that you know who is good. That won't end the controversy at the cutoff, but you won't have some 27-win team sitting at home because they had to play a bunch of strength of schedule killers in conference.  It's also not fair to those in tough conferences to let a 27-win team in that didn't play anybody with a winning record.  Settle it on the court.

Great post
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OS2 (SW) Razor Back

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2018, 04:07:01 am »

No.
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joeyself

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2018, 09:30:02 am »

expand to 256. It only takes one more 4 day weekend. Get rid of the conf tourneys, play the sub regions at 32 sites ( could use the conf tourney sites so they don't whine ). Then re-seed after the 1st weekend when you'd be back down to 64 teams.

And if the NIT is a must, those eliminated the first weekend can go play there.

JcS

Inhogswetrust

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2018, 08:48:46 am »

honestly, add another weekend and make it 128. 

Donít forget participation trophies for everybody!
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elksnort

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2018, 03:52:54 pm »

NO
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HogPharmer

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2018, 11:02:51 pm »

I think we should lower it to a 32 team bracket
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jbcarol

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2018, 08:54:44 pm »

Having each team play the same number of tournament games is key.

joeyself

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #93 on: September 04, 2018, 03:48:14 pm »

Having each team play the same number of tournament games is key.

I like that, but I also like the idea that the regular season means something.  A system akin to the NFL, where 1/3 of the teams in that end-of-the-year tournament have a bye the first weekend, appeals to me.  A 96 team field would have 64 teams playing the first day, and the 32 winners would face the 32 that earned a bye.

Yeah, the 33 and 34 seeds would whine about not being in the top 32, but the 69th and 70th team whine now about missing the field. 

I love the NCAA tournament, but the first four games just don't do anything for me.  Another couple of days of "madness," though--I'm in!

JcS
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Arkansas Hog in Dallas

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2018, 08:04:28 pm »

They should do away with conference tournaments and put all roughly 350 teams in the season final tournament.  It is actually less games thaN playing in both the conference and NCAA tourney if you win them both.


And do a blind draw.  No seeding's.  So you might get Duke-Kansas ranked 1-2 but playing in the first round.

I actually like the second part of this.
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Sweet Feet

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2018, 01:43:26 pm »

I may sound completely wacky with this, but i say since there's 32 conferences, get rid of Conf Tournaments and just take the 4 teams that finishes in the Top 4 in the conference to the tournament. That would be 128 teams. Lot of sports outside the college level do that method of finishing a certain place in your conference/pool/league in order to make the playoffs. That way there is absolutely 0 human influence and bias bailing out or snuffing teams out the tournament because of their subjective opinion. It's 100% on the teams themselves. It also eliminates any controversy regarding who gets in, considering all 350 teams have the same guidelines to finish atleast 4th place in their conference. The equal amount of teams from each conference truly makes it a NCAA division 1 tournament.
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HogBreath

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2018, 09:34:03 pm »

I may sound completely wacky with this, but i say since there's 32 conferences, get rid of Conf Tournaments and just take the 4 teams that finishes in the Top 4 in the conference to the tournament. That would be 128 teams. Lot of sports outside the college level do that method of finishing a certain place in your conference/pool/league in order to make the playoffs. That way there is absolutely 0 human influence and bias bailing out or snuffing teams out the tournament because of their subjective opinion. It's 100% on the teams themselves. It also eliminates any controversy regarding who gets in, considering all 350 teams have the same guidelines to finish atleast 4th place in their conference. The equal amount of teams from each conference truly makes it a NCAA division 1 tournament.
What about the conferences where the sixth place team is better than many other conferences third place team?  They get left out because they're in a tough league?  You're idea would be fine if all leagues were the same, but that's nowhere near the case.
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Sweet Feet

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Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #97 on: September 06, 2018, 12:53:01 am »

What about the conferences where the sixth place team is better than many other conferences third place team?  They get left out because they're in a tough league?  You're idea would be fine if all leagues were the same, but that's nowhere near the case.
Think about high school sports like football, where one team in a tough conference may just miss the playoffs but probably could beat a few of the participants from other conferences that make it. Its unfortunate, but at the same time its only speculation when it comes to who we think is better than who and who could beat who.  What's objective however is who's better than who in a conference since they all play each other. That's why you never hear complaints about who gets left out of the playoffs  regardless of the perception of being a tough/weak conference, because it's 100% proven on the field/court and up to the teams to step up.

Thats the beauty of a system like that. it takes zero human factors, which eliminates any bias or opinion. And because of that, teams can't complain if they don't make the playoffs. How good or bad a conference is perceived has absolutely no effect on you taking care of business in your conference, which im sure coaches would be drilling into their players. If anything, it would make the entire conference season even more intense and urgent, much like College football. You would no longer see half of the ACC or Big 12 lazing and expecting an NCAA tournament bid even finishing in 7th or 8th place. The tournament scenarios and push would be incredible.
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Adam Stokes

Re: Should the NCAA Tournament expand to 72 teams?
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2018, 08:10:06 am »

What about the conferences where the sixth place team is better than many other conferences third place team?  They get left out because they're in a tough league?  You're idea would be fine if all leagues were the same, but that's nowhere near the case.

And to take even further your point to a real life example, last season the worst team in the Big 12 (Iowa State) would have had the #1 RPI in two conferences, #2 in four, or #3 in 6 conferences. When 3/4's of conferences wouldn't even get an at-large bid if their best team won their conference tournament, we don't need to go out of the way to include more of them.

72 is a good number because it essentially weeds out the teams that don't really deserve to be there and allow for more upsets due to having higher quality teams in the round of 64. Four 11 seeds have made the final four, and that is normally where the at-large bids end.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 08:20:35 am by Adam Stokes »
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