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Author Topic: Joe Johnson  (Read 4366 times)

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gohogs1969

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Joe Johnson
« on: May 14, 2018, 10:30:47 pm »

Honest question. Iím definitely not a basketball expert, but why the heck is he on the end of the bench? The Rockets are obviously undermanned (I donít watch much of the regular season) but even I know that Houston could use his 3 point shooting. I know that heís not in the rotation but if I was coaching Iíd think Iíd try everything in the book in the western conference finals.
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MakingPlays

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 10:59:43 pm »

Mike D'antoni has never been known to go deep in his bench.   He's only going to play 7-8 guys.  He puts all his eggs into his main guys and just hopes they outscore the other team.  And it's not happening against the Warriors. 

Now, I will say the Warriors didn't go deep into their bench this game because it was close all the way through but Kerr is definitely not afraid to use his bench and plays a lot of those guys and he trusts them.  There's no reason D'antoni shouldn't be playing Joe Johnson he's still a very capable player and can without a doubt shoot the ball and help stretch the floor.  If Joe was on the Warriors he would have played, he would have got Nick Young's minutes. 
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 07:09:35 am »

Maybe I just havenít watched enough Rockets games, but I donít understand why Tucker gets so many minutes. Joe can easily get some of his.
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 01:11:48 pm »

Ive watched a lot of Rockets games.  I'm not too surprised.  A lot of the guys playing in front of him bring something more to the table than Joe (even tucker).  Wouldn't be surprised to see him get some minutes, or no minutes. 
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 01:16:37 pm »

Ive watched a lot of Rockets games.  I'm not too surprised.  A lot of the guys playing in front of him bring something more to the table than Joe (even tucker).  Wouldn't be surprised to see him get some minutes, or no minutes.

Iíll trust your opinion as I havenít watched them a ton.

Hereís a separate question about Iso Joe that Iím curious on yíallís opinions on...Is Joe Johnson a Hall of Famer?
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k.c.hawg

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 01:22:33 pm »

Iíll trust your opinion as I havenít watched them a ton.

Hereís a separate question about Iso Joe that Iím curious on yíallís opinions on...Is Joe Johnson a Hall of Famer?

He will finish with the numbers to be in the HOF but don't know if he has the wow factor to get in. There are certainly less deserving that are in.
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 01:52:48 pm »

He is not the same Joe Johnson he was 4-5 years ago, plus he isnít shooting the 3 that good this year or last couple of years. 
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yraciv

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 01:55:56 pm »

The Rockets set the single season record for most 3s made, and Joe Johnson shot 28% from the 3 for them.

He is not the same Joe Johnson, but I'd still have him on the court if you need a basket in the clutch.  He did hit another nice buzzer beating game winner late in the year.

RebHog

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 06:08:26 pm »

Joe is obviously at the tail end of his career and the problem is he is "iso joe" which is exactly what Harden is for this team and other posters noted Joe's bad 3 point % this year. While players like tucker and green aren't half the player joe was in his prime at this point they are probably a better fit on the court. If they go down 0-2 or 0-3 I would hope they give him a chance you never know about vets on any given night they can turn back the clock. I hope he makes the HOF he has the numbers but the iffy thing is did he really make any mark on the league in his career?
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 08:04:37 pm »

Houston needs intense defender and screeners at the 3 and 4.
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 10:30:35 pm »

Houston needs intense defender and screeners at the 3 and 4.

They need a guy like Patrick Beverly...oh wait...
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 11:05:18 pm »

They need a guy like Patrick Beverly...oh wait...

Haha. Youíd have a point if Beverley was healthy for more than 10 games this year.
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Polecat

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 10:06:30 am »

He needs to get Mbah Moute's minutes. Dude can't shoot a lick
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Grumpypenguin

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 02:26:45 pm »

He's a career iso player that is now suppose to be a spot up shooter for Houston but he can't hit the 3. Why the hell would they play him
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ErieHog

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 04:08:03 pm »

Iíll trust your opinion as I havenít watched them a ton.

Hereís a separate question about Iso Joe that Iím curious on yíallís opinions on...Is Joe Johnson a Hall of Famer?

Joe's a Hall guy, just not a first ballot.

The only thing easier than getting in with an election, is getting in with a ticket.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2018, 08:54:37 am »

Maybe I just havenít watched enough Rockets games, but I donít understand why Tucker gets so many minutes. Joe can easily get some of his.
This is funny.  I guess the last game showed you why D'antoni knows what he's doing.  Joe is done man.  He got slow really fast the last two years. 
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HogPokerPlayer

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2018, 09:09:51 am »

Yeah, Joe's got no business playing in these series'.  He's a defensive sieve at this point in his career.  Tucker and MBM have to perform at a high level on that end.  Rockets have plenty of offense w/ the system they run.  But in the end it doesn't matter.  Warriors in 5
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razorbackfan4life

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2018, 04:26:40 pm »

I've watched Joe's entire career.  He has lost a few steps.  Sucks because(besides Jordan) he was the only guy I enjoyed watching.  He was a true super star for a good chunk of his career.

LeBaby always wanted to poach him away to team up, but Joe was like nah. lol 

He still has enough talent to get some playing time.  Just last year he led Utah to a first round victory over the Clippers.   but his defense has gone downhill.  Heavy, old legs aren't kind when you are facing young athletic guards. 


Regardless he's a HOF in my book.  His stats are incredible. 

greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2018, 07:15:51 pm »

This is funny.  I guess the last game showed you why D'antoni knows what he's doing.  Joe is done man.  He got slow really fast the last two years.

Itís funny? Ha ha...ok. The few games I watched, Ticker didnít impress me much. So...yep...I guess Dantoni ďshowed meĒ. Lol
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HoopS

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2018, 07:46:43 pm »

Itís funny? Ha ha...ok. The few games I watched, Ticker didnít impress me much. So...yep...I guess Dantoni ďshowed meĒ. Lol
Tucker is better at this point.
He needs to get Mbah Moute's minutes. Dude can't shoot a lick
his shoulder is banged up.
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logic

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2018, 09:05:38 pm »

Honest question. Iím definitely not a basketball expert, but why the heck is he on the end of the bench? The Rockets are obviously undermanned (I donít watch much of the regular season) but even I know that Houston could use his 3 point shooting. I know that heís not in the rotation but if I was coaching Iíd think Iíd try everything in the book in the western conference finals.
In a month, Joe will have his 37th birthday.  That's 3 years shy of 40.  The fact that someone close to middle age can even make an NBA team is amazing.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2018, 10:04:08 am »

Rockets were -19 in his 8 minutes last night. 
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Adam Stokes

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2018, 11:07:23 am »

Joe did amazing in the playoffs last year for the Jazz because he can get you buckets when you need him, hence earning him the nickname "Iso Joe." The Jazz didn't rally have a player that fit that mold last year, (then they drafted Donovan Mitchell.)

The Rockets have both James Harden (arguably best iso player in the league) and Chris Paul (also up there) to do the work that Joe would've brought to the table. They look like they have better shooters and better defenders at this point as well.

He should find a tanker to play on next season as he further rides off into the sunset.  A full season at 7 points per game would take him into the Top 40 scoring of all time.

niels_boar

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2018, 11:17:28 am »

I've watched Joe's entire career.  He has lost a few steps.  Sucks because(besides Jordan) he was the only guy I enjoyed watching.  He was a true super star for a good chunk of his career.

LeBaby always wanted to poach him away to team up, but Joe was like nah. lol 

He still has enough talent to get some playing time.  Just last year he led Utah to a first round victory over the Clippers.   but his defense has gone downhill.  Heavy, old legs aren't kind when you are facing young athletic guards. 


Regardless he's a HOF in my book.  His stats are incredible.


As a lifelong Atlanta fan, Joe was never a superstar.  He was a solid NBA All-star at his best but in the second tier like a Rolando Blackman.  He could have been the third-best player on a championship team, maybe second-best if the team was deep enough.  Quite frankly in his prime he disappeared frequently in the postseason, just like he did in the NCAAT.  For the one team in Atlanta that he led to 50+ wins he shot 41% in the playoffs.  If you look at the top-50 in NBA scoring, most accomplished significantly more team success. Certainly never having enough talent around him contributed to that both here and in the NBA, but he also managed his career in the NBA in such a way that ensured that he got his numbers and his contracts at the expense of wins.  Trophies don't keep the bills paid later in life, but he could have gone for a ring when he had more in the tank.  As someone who frequently rooted for teams in which he was the best player, I feel fortunate that he significantly raised the floors on those teams, but not so fortunate as to how he limited the ceilings on those teams.  He just wasn't a player that routinely elevated his game at the most important time of the season.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 11:35:18 am by niels_boar »
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2018, 12:19:53 pm »

I don't see Joe as a HOF
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2018, 01:01:35 pm »

Rockets were -19 in his 8 minutes last night.

You did watch the game right? It wouldnít of mattered WHO was in for that -19.
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ErieHog

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2018, 02:56:45 pm »

I don't see Joe as a HOF

What is HOF then?

I mean, you get 4 AS appearances, and your shot at being in the Hall is around 80%.

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razorbackfan4life

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2018, 10:02:11 pm »


As a lifelong Atlanta fan, Joe was never a superstar.  He was a solid NBA All-star at his best but in the second tier like a Rolando Blackman.  He could have been the third-best player on a championship team, maybe second-best if the team was deep enough.  Quite frankly in his prime he disappeared frequently in the postseason, just like he did in the NCAAT.  For the one team in Atlanta that he led to 50+ wins he shot 41% in the playoffs.  If you look at the top-50 in NBA scoring, most accomplished significantly more team success. Certainly never having enough talent around him contributed to that both here and in the NBA, but he also managed his career in the NBA in such a way that ensured that he got his numbers and his contracts at the expense of wins.  Trophies don't keep the bills paid later in life, but he could have gone for a ring when he had more in the tank.  As someone who frequently rooted for teams in which he was the best player, I feel fortunate that he significantly raised the floors on those teams, but not so fortunate as to how he limited the ceilings on those teams.  He just wasn't a player that routinely elevated his game at the most important time of the season.

Kind of hard with the lack of  talent he had around him.  He was routinely double teamed because Joe's teammates couldn't make the right plays.  I can't tell you how many times I pulled my hair out seeing Josh Smith jack up a three off a pass from Joe.  Defense's would slack off Josh and double Joe. 

I think you are right partially, but you have to admit that Joe was keyed on every single game via the double team.  Hard to elevate your game against that.   

And I'm pretty sure he took Atlanta to heights they hadn't seen in years.  Every year Joe was there ATL improved. 
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2018, 10:19:10 pm »

Mike D'antoni has never been known to go deep in his bench.   He's only going to play 7-8 guys.  He puts all his eggs into his main guys and just hopes they outscore the other team.  And it's not happening against the Warriors. 

Now, I will say the Warriors didn't go deep into their bench this game because it was close all the way through but Kerr is definitely not afraid to use his bench and plays a lot of those guys and he trusts them.  There's no reason D'antoni shouldn't be playing Joe Johnson he's still a very capable player and can without a doubt shoot the ball and help stretch the floor.  If Joe was on the Warriors he would have played, he would have got Nick Young's minutes.
2-2.

It's happening. it's at least a 7 gamer.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2018, 10:20:18 pm »

Maybe I just havenít watched enough Rockets games, but I donít understand why Tucker gets so many minutes. Joe can easily get some of his.
Tucker is a defensive beast. he plays perimeter defense and interior defense. Only a few guys in the league truly do that. And he knocks down 3s.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2018, 09:02:17 am »

Tucker is a key role player.  Joe does not need to play ahead of him now.  Two years ago yes but Joe has aged quickly in the last year. 
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2018, 02:24:33 pm »

First, bull Joe is totally in the HOF, otherwise your saying 20k pts, 5k asists, and 5k boards don't mean crap.  The CHS team Joe was on was good, but Jarrett Hart was the only other D1 talent (I went to school there and he was in my class).  Joe carried it effortlessly.  The Razorbacks 1999 and 2000 squad had nothing but role players left.  Joe led those teams while appearing to make the game look easy.  He went to Atlanta, the Clippers of the East, carried them and made them relevant.  Joe went NJ, where he had to carry that team.  Joe doesn't look like a Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, or even LeBron.  He never had a flashy offensive game.  That is why people doubt he is HOF.  His longevity, stats, and obvious, yet quite leadership doesn't shine like that of Jordan, who dominated loudly.  Joe dominated quitely, always as a defensive stalwart first, then as a quite, unforced, offense threat on the other end.
Don't know why you are bringing up college.  Jimmer Fredette would be in the Hall.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2018, 02:26:24 pm »

For his career he averaged 16.0 ppg
4 assist
4 rebounds
shot 44% from the field

If you think those are HOF numbers then I just can't help you
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Grizzlyfan

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2018, 03:49:09 pm »

Have you actually ever watched JJ play in his prime, or do you only know him from stats off a website?
What else gets you in the HOF but stats?  Joe's stats are a factor of longevity but not HOF status.
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RebHog

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2018, 05:31:35 pm »

Joe has the stats and the 7x ASG but never at any point in his career was he considered top 5 player in the league that year. Hell Gilbert "Hibachi" Arenas can claim one of those. This is evident by him only making 1 all NBA team and that was third team. Mitch Richmond is on many list as not deserving to be in the HOF yet he has the 20k points, NBA champ, rookie of the year,3 time all NBA 2ND team, 1 all NBA 3rd and a gold medal. Tom Chambers is the only 20k scorer not in the HOF so Joe does have that on his side but both of those players by far have the least amount of achievements in the 20k club. I really hope he makes it but I think its a coin flip at this point. If the rockets get him a ring I think his chances increase greatly.
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gohogs1969

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2018, 08:12:50 pm »

Joe or no Joe this is a great series. And yes, Joe Johnson is a sure fire hall of gamer. His total points are unreal and Iím proud of him.
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ErieHog

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2018, 09:48:11 pm »

Don't know why you are bringing up college.  Jimmer Fredette would be in the Hall.

Because College careers are part of your consideration for the Basketball Hall of Fame.  There is no NBA Hall of Fame.

draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2018, 10:24:05 am »

Because College careers are part of your consideration for the Basketball Hall of Fame.  There is no NBA Hall of Fame.
So there is hope for Jimmer.....
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2018, 10:26:13 am »

Joe or no Joe this is a great series. And yes, Joe Johnson is a sure fire hall of gamer. His total points are unreal and Iím proud of him.
Oh that seals the deal.  He's a HOF because you are proud of him.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2018, 10:27:59 am »

Have you actually ever watched JJ play in his prime, or do you only know him from stats off a website?
Yes I watched him in HS and college where he averaged 15.0 ppg at both.  Come on guys what HOF averages 15 ppg in college and 16 in the NBA with little assist and rebound numbers and makes the Hall? 
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hawkhawg

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2018, 10:36:39 am »

Oh that seals the deal.  He's a HOF because you are proud of him.

Come on, there are many players in the Hall of Fame that are less deserving than Joe.  Alonzo Morning is in the Hall of Fame.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2018, 12:13:16 pm »

Come on, there are many players in the Hall of Fame that are less deserving than Joe.  Alonzo Morning is in the Hall of Fame.
Mourning less deserving?  He averaged more points, blocks, rebounds, and had a higher FG% and had a better college career. 
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k.c.hawg

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2018, 12:37:35 pm »

I doubt Joe is going to get in. When I stated he has the numbers to get in, this is the number. I know it was mentioned before but this is his company and it is elite.

20,000 points   5,000 rebounds    5,000 assists

Here are the others that have accomplished that in the NBA.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Karl Malone

LeBron James

Michael Jordan

Kevin Garnett

Oscar Robertson

Kobe Bryant

Jerry West

Larry Bird

Gary Payton

Clyde Drexler

John Havlicek

Obviously Joe is just over the number on many of those numbers. But, if that guy ever has something to hang his hat on, this would be it. Don't use longevity on this either. Longevity is part of being an elite player. What Joe doesn't have are championships. 7x all-star and a member of this club is a helluva career.
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draftkings33

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2018, 01:43:58 pm »

I doubt Joe is going to get in. When I stated he has the numbers to get in, this is the number. I know it was mentioned before but this is his company and it is elite.

20,000 points   5,000 rebounds    5,000 assists

Here are the others that have accomplished that in the NBA.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Karl Malone

LeBron James

Michael Jordan

Kevin Garnett

Oscar Robertson

Kobe Bryant

Jerry West

Larry Bird

Gary Payton

Clyde Drexler

John Havlicek

Obviously Joe is just over the number on many of those numbers. But, if that guy ever has something to hang his hat on, this would be it. Don't use longevity on this either. Longevity is part of being an elite player. What Joe doesn't have are championships. 7x all-star and a member of this club is a helluva career.
True
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Grumpypenguin

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2018, 12:41:50 pm »

Last night is exactly why Joe Johnson has no business playing in this series
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alohawg

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2018, 02:36:01 pm »

Last night is exactly why Joe Johnson has no business playing in this series

Wow, I thought it was totally unfair to Joe to throw him in at that point. Get him some meaningful minutes and see how it goes.
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razorback1829

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2018, 02:47:13 pm »

Best career ever. Over $200 mil in the bank, made some All-Star appearances, never wasvin controversy, and never had the pressure of a superstar. Oh yea, heíll also be a HOFíer one day. Not bad.

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2018, 04:15:58 pm »

Last night is exactly why Joe Johnson has no business playing in this series

Ha ha...down 20 with 6 minutes left...yeah, that was his time to shine, huh.
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HoopS

Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2018, 08:37:21 pm »

Wow, I thought it was totally unfair to Joe to throw him in at that point. Get him some meaningful minutes and see how it goes.
it is not about fair. Game was out of hand so you sit your main guys. Side benefit is he got in and now heís in when it matters and hopefully heís in more of a rhythm now due to it.
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Porked Tongue

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Re: Joe Johnson
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2018, 08:40:20 pm »

He's getting some PT in Game 7.  Calculated move to get Harden some rest.
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